The forces of civilian disarmament continue to mau-mau corporate America over their ties to the firearms business. The latest to step up is American Federation of Teachers president Randi Weingarten (no relation to Dean, that we know of).
The AFT is threatening to discontinue a mortgage program they’ve been offering their members through Wells if the big bank doesn’t dump their gun-related business.
“If they want the mortgage market from teachers then they have to make a decision, and that’s what we’re saying to them,” AFT President Randi Weingarten said in an interview. “If they decide that they still want to do that business with the NRA and gun manufacturers, then we’re not going to offer our members their mortgage program.”
So far, Wells Fargo is resisting the AFT’s pressure. Wells’ CEO Timothy Sloan said,
As I have publicly stated, I do not believe that the American public wants banks to decide which legal products consumers can and cannot buy.
We couldn’t agree more. But this is the same bank that recently dumped an optics maker because its products sit on top of rifles. So please forgive us if we don’t have much faith in Sloan’s steadfastness.
Eugene Volokh sees the big picture here:
The attempted demonization of the NRA and gun manufacturers also helps support, I think, many gun owners’ worry that many gun control proponents’ endgame isn’t just “reasonable regulation” but outright bans.
Today, they might not have the political power to accomplish that on a national level, or in most states. But most successful ideological campaigns go in many steps. Diminish the power of the NRA now, and you might be able to get more gun restrictions soon. Get more gun restrictions then, and there may then be fewer gun owners year as a result (especially if you’ve made it harder for gun manufacturers to operate, and perhaps increased the cost of guns as a result). Diminish the number of gun owners, and you might further diminish the power of gun rights organizations, and then get more gun restrictions after that.
We’re living in interesting times.
From aft.org – ‘Under Weingarten’s leadership, the union has continued its solid membership growth, with the total reaching at 1.7 million members in 2017.’
1.7 million vs 5 million NRA members. I would hope a bank would be able to do the math.
And although it’s probably not the way things should be, who do you think buys more houses, teachers or NRA members?
Judging by her uptight looking photo seems like Weingarten could use a good harrumph … ing
Don’t look to me, I only mess around with Miss Stein.
Well there is that one guy you didn’t get a harrumph out of.
Work, work, work. Hello boys, sleep well? I missed you!
Isn’t she saying that AFT is presenting Wells Fargo with something of value by promoting their business with members? Are members being compensated? This sounds crooked as a snake.
The FPE [Federation of Public Employees] is a subsidiary of the AFT. The public employees in Baltimore County, Md, dumped the independent union several years back and voted in the FPE on promises of better representation and no dues increases. Almost immediately, the dues were increased. I later had 2 grievances that the old union had won for someone else, and went to my union rep. He refused to do anything about them for me.
Based on that, it does not surprise me what the AFT is trying to pull!
By the way, the AFT is a subsidiary of the AFL-CIO. Maybe some of you union members out there should start making some noise.
Given the way Wells Fargo has treated its customers, why would anyone want to bank with them?
Very true. They are posterchild for POS megamerger corp bank. They will buckle to the progs as always. VERY PC leffis org run by corp socialists. They largely run Des Moines.
That’s not the point. The point is that Ms. Prez. of the AFT wants to unilaterally force businesses to dump the NRA. Step 2 being to take everybody’s [except the bad guys] guns away.
The American Federation of Teachers is one of the few organizations in the United States that should be outlawed. As our greatest president (Except maybe Harrison the Elder) said “There is no right to strike against the public safety by anybody, anywhere, any time. “. Government unions exist only to extort money from the whole people. It is genuinely responsible for most of the problems of US education.
More than that, public employee unions kick tax dollars back to Democrats. In most states, teacher’s union dues come right out of your paycheck, no choice in the matter. A good chunk of that goes to support the party of big gov., whether any individual teacher wants it to or not. I don’t know about other states, but in PA aides and other staff are also forced to pay into the teacher’s unions, even though they don’t enjoy the protection of the unions, nor do the unions bargain for them. It’s a massive money laundering scheme for the Democrat party.
In terms of dollars spend on political influence, the public employee unions dwarf the NRA, and in fact are exactly what they accuse the NRA of being.
Absolutely!! I have NEVER supported Unions and never will…I have seen firsthand just how poorly they “take care” of their rank and file!!!! They are corrupt, lying, hypocritical groups of people who have the fat cats at the top still making their millions and telling their people how to vote, while the actual worker bees see very little from their organizations. I support RIGHT TO WORK and the unions can all go to hell!!
Being anti-union is all well & good, but who is there to represent you when you have been wronged by your employer?
As a public employee for over 35 years, I never once got a single raise large enough to keep up with the cost of living. And …. Every time I got a 1 or 2 % raise, it didn’t even cover the cost increases in my health insurance costs. —– Union dues, however, managed to go up regularly.
Sounds like your union sucked at representing you. Want that dues money back yet?
They ALL work in the same way…..just go on strike and you lose everything….they are no more representatives of their workers than The Man From Uncle….the fat asses at the top do no more than line their own pockets and pay for play in the political arena…I have NO regard for them whatsoever….
The end of the article has this:
I laughed out loud…
That’s pretty funny, right there
And we continue to sit on the sidelines. Where is the economic pressure from gun owners? Where are the demonstrations? Where are the national organizations countering the successful “shaming” (legal) programs from the Left? Where are the organized “letter writing” campaigns of POTG and support organizations?
Something I learned long ago in the sales business: everyone can influence six people. And they can influence six, and they can influence six. By the sixth iteration (if I did the numbers right) 46,656 people have been influenced to take an action (or avoid one).
“Diminish the number of gun owners, and you might further diminish the power of gun rights organizations, and then get more gun restrictions after that.”
Eugene Volokh gets it.
Just like the CEO of ‘Twitter’, they are out for our destruction…
American Federation of Teaching Communist’s take the page directly from Allinsky’s playbook and yet are trusted with Americans children,our future.
I hate when teacher unions and organizations act like they are the voice of educators. They aren’t. Most teachers who join the latter by choice only do so for the tort liability insurance their annual dues afford them, which is required by many states/districts. Being the cheapest insurer doesn’t mean they agree with your politics.
Yuck…glad my grandkids,niece’s and nephew’s are home-schooled. And it’s not like I’d use Wells Fargo.
“The forces of civilian disarmament continue to mau-mau corporate America over their ties to the firearms business.”
I see what you did there, Mr. Wolfe.
Considering the hundreds of thousands of teachers around the country who are walking off the job because they are underpaid, it would probably be in any banks best interests not to supply them with mortgages. They probably couldn’t pay them.
I have 5 adult children who were home schooled….all are far ahead of their peers….and all are POTG.
An educational system that teaches to the lowest common denominator and adds in a SJW curriculum is part of the problem with this country
There’s no proof TNVC is getting denied because they are gun related. There are lots of factors that can be part of a “profile.” TNVC doesn’t even say what kind of account is getting canceled, other than “direct commercial.” Merchant Services accounts are often canceled for too much fraudulent/charge backs transactions. Their website says they offer financing through another bank, so maybe WF is retaliating (or TNVC asked WF to do it, and WF said no and investigated more thoroughly).
“High power lasers” are no joking matter, financially. Would you loan a company money to buy inventory that might be seized? Not a good way to get that loan repaid. The FDA sets a limit on power without licensing. Individuals and foreign companies can get away with it, but you can’t have a legitimate business plan based on contraband. BTW, I’m not saying that’s actually the case with TNVC – we just don’t have enough info. Maybe there were ITAR or import/export issues. Maybe their debt to income/assets ratios weren’t acceptable.
I’ve had credit cards canceled because I didn’t use them enough or carry balances, not because I was a deadbeat or pro-gun. Maybe their account just wasn’t profitable enough or was too risky.
We have enough open enemies that we don’t have to assume everything that doesn’t go our way is because we’re being persecuted by anti-gunners. If it was really about a policy against guns, WF would be crowing about disentangling themselves from the evil death merchants. There would be a lot more stories of gun related businesses being cut off around the same time.
BTW, I’m not accusing TNVC of violating any regulations. Their website has disclaimers everywhere that the high power lasers are resticted to government buyers. If the cancelation is even laser related, it might be that WF doesn’t want to be involved at all instead of sorting the legit businesses from the shady ones. If someone buys an illegal laser that gets seized by Customs, they’re going to want their money back, and Merchant Services is on the hook unless they can get the money from the vendor.
What dumbasses…no clue how the business actually works.
Wells Fargo makes money on servicing the mortgages, not selling them. They buy loans from other originators. Go ahead and drop your stupid program. Once someone else initiates the loan, Wells will probably buy it and end up making the money anyway.
As Neal Boortz said many years ago, teacher’s unions are a greater threat to the USA than terriorists.
Wells Fargo screwed over small businesses in small towns in Indiana. The businesses had to scramble to get their business loans elsewhere. Do not bank at Wells Fargo.
One of the biggest donors to the Donkeycrap Party is Teachers Union. Go figure.
After the latest in a long line of school massacres in the US, we’re hearing that arming teachers is proposed as a possible solution.
It’s asserted by gun rights activists and the NRA, that the presence of an armed teacher would deter a shooter, or if one actually turned up, that this same teacher would be able to shoot back, and lives would be saved.
Let’s do a little common-sensed analysis of these propositions.
The first is that the knowledge that teachers may be armed would deter a prospective shooter.
That is a very frail assumption. History shows that most active school shooters either die by their own hand, or are shot by armed police. They’ve usually killed a number of staff and students prior to being shot or suiciding. It’s completely implausible that an individual who is prepared to shoot himself, or take on armed police is going to be deterred by the possibility of being confronted by an armed teacher. Such an individual is, by definition, not behaving rationally. In some cases, the expectation that he may have to engage in a firefight with an armed teacher might well constitute extra motivation. Shooters have equipped themselves with flak jackets and protective gear. They’re typically up for a fight with no rational fear of consequences.
Then there is the contention that the armed teacher will have the realistic capacity to prevent a rampage by shooting back.
You’d have to be kidding yourself to swallow that proposition..
Let’s assume that the teacher is carrying a concealable firearm. Obviously concealed carry by teachers who have to operate in the classroom unhampered is practicable only with short barrelled weapons. These weapons are notoriously inaccurate except at very close quarters and aren’t as powerful as say, an AK47 or AR15. The shooter will always have the advantage of surprise, and no doubt would be cunning enough (if he assumes the teacher is armed) to use this surprise, as well as concealment, in initiating the attack. The first person most likely to be targeted would be the armed teacher. The shooter would be ready – the teacher, most likely, would not.
If you believe that someone packing (say) a 9mm Browning would have a fighting chance against an assailant with an AR15 or AK47, you obviously have little real understanding of firearms. Or perhaps you’ve watched too many movies where the good guys always win.
In the army I was trained on long barrelled semi-autos (FN 7.62, which we called “SLR”) and full auto sub machine guns (M16). We were also trained on the 9mm Browning (sometimes carried by chopper pilots and tank crew).
This training, and my experience in as a rifleman in Vietnam where people actually shot back, has given me a clear appreciation of the relative lethality of the two classes of weapons. A pistol, pitched against a long barrelled auto or semi-auto is a very bad joke. The only people happy to use pistols in Vietnam were tunnel rats. A long arm is a liability down a tunnel.
So the proposition that a teacher with a handgun is going to deter a shooter is simply invalid, taking into account the relative capacity and power of the weapons, the element of surprise, and the murderous intent of the shooter. Then there are a whole range of other real world factors to be considered.
These factors are cheerfully glossed over by the proponents of arming teachers. The first of these is the built environment. Schools are typically rich in concrete, glass and steel. The behaviour of a spent round striking these hard surfaces is totally unpredictable. In fact, I couldn’t imagine a better definition of chaos than a firefight in a school building. The risk of death and injury from ricochet and dislodged glass or other fragments is real. Ricochet killed one of the armed serge hostages in the Sydney Lindt cafe siege.
Assuming that the armed teacher has the opportunity for a clear shot at the attacker, that same teacher would have to be sure that no student or staff member was likely to be harmed by overshoot or ricochet. The shooter would have no such concern.
The human element – panic, the adrenaline rush, the unpredictability of the situation, all combine to make any firefight a deadly lottery. This was brought home to me nearly fifty years ago when the digger standing next to me was hit by friendly fire. Standing a metre from the cone of fire of an M60 as it brings down branches and foliage from stout looking trees concentrates the mind somewhat.
Of course, a school inhabited by teachers bearing arms is a very different place from a gun-free school. With over twenty years’ experience as a school administrator in our Australian gun-free community, I can imagine that managing a situation where staff are armed would be daunting. It’s challenging enough without firearms.
Weapon security would be an element of school management with horrendous outcomes should it break down. My experience in Vietnam reminds me of accidental discharges, mislaid or stolen weapons, and ammunition security issues. Visiting this scenario on a location teeming with children, families, teenagers, the usual mix of school staff, stressed individuals, distracted individuals and the statistical small percentage of people with mental illness would be, put simply, an administrative nightmare. All of these factors are part and parcel of any modern school community.
The plaintiff lawyers are probably rubbing their hands in anticipation.
The “solution” of arming teachers is a pretty fair barometer of the level of desperation that US gun culture has visited on its citizens. Whatever the remedy, it sure as shooting (sorry) isn’t this one.
From where I sit in school massacre free Australia, I can feel only profound sympathy. The Americans have let the genie out of the bottle. Or, to use a more appropriate metaphor, they’ve shot themselves in the foot.
The best we can hope for on this side of the Pacific is that the school massacre nightmare doesn’t cross the Pacific.
Keep your fingers crossed.
We’ve done a pretty good job of it so far – since 1996.
1735099: Your country’s crackdown on rights has not stopped mass murders from happening.
Our gun fatality rate (corrected for population) is 1/11 yours – http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/mass-shooting-maps-compared
Are people burned to death somehow less dead then those shot to death?
A whole wall of text for the tired old argument that school shooters are unstopable killing machines that mere mortals have no hope against. From someone who thinks an M16 is an SMG no less.
” From someone who thinks an M16 is an SMG no less.”
Since the definition of ‘SMG’ is that it fires pistol ammunition, I direct your attention to the numerous AR-pattern pistols available for sale…
“From someone who thinks an M16 is an SMG no less.”
Mate – You can call the bloody thing anything you like.
It’s actually a killing machine. That’s what it was designed for.
I know the difference between an M-16 and an AR-15. As a rifleman in an infantry section in 7th Battalion in 1970, when I carried the section radio I carried an M-16. They were not as reliable as the FN SLR 7.62 – standard Australian weapon at the time. The SLR worked when covered in mud – the M-16 tolerated neither mud nor sand, and there was plenty of both in SVN.
My experience with gun lovers (especially US-style gun lovers) is that they have no respect for firearms and regard them as toys.
US service personnel we encountered at the time demonstrated sub-standard weapon care and discipline, and given the fatality rate in your country, not much has changed since 1970.
“Why you think that armed and trained teachers are useless is just ignorant.”
Why stop at teachers? Why not arm doctors, nurses, child-care workers, taxi drivers, ministers of religion, pizza delivery drivers, supermarket check-out personnel, MacDonalds’ burger-flippers, etc
What a wonderful dystopia you envisage.
Has it ever occurred to you that the solution to 30000+ gun fatalities annually may not necessarily be more armed people? There is a clear and consistent correlation between gun prevalence in a community and firearms fatalities in that same community.
To deny that is sublime ignorance – perhaps delusion.
Trouble is that delusion kills.
You gun fanciers have gotten yourselves into this situation.
Pardon us, there, Mick, but you seem to have mistaken us for people who GIVE a sh*t about your opinion. You are a foreigner. You do not live here. You cannot vote here. You have most likely never visited here. Your opinion means precisely NOTHING.
Just because you and yours chose to give up your firearms to a Liberal government at virtual gunpoint, and you took the government’s money like a cheap whore in exchange for your rights as free men, it’s not our fault.
Live with it.
Now, go put your shrimp on the barbie and smoke it.
I’ve never met a teacher I’d trust to do the right thing with a gun. More likely a mass shooter would take it away and have another weapon.
As a police officer who has studied mass shootings and shooters extensively, factually you are one hundred percent wrong about armed teachers. Or anyone else who is armed at a school and prepared to defend. Period. And, keep in mind this isn’t Australia.
School shooters are cowards who want to rack up highest possible “score” before they off themselves. They are not looking for confrontation. That’s why they choose defenseless children as their targets. As soon as they meet with armed opposition, they usually suicide or give up.
“Arming teachers” sounds like the schools are going to issue sidearms to all employees. I inderstand that kind of statist thinking – everything that’s not prohibited is mandatory. But that’s not what we want. We just want to stop forbidding those who already carry everywhere else, from carry in schools.
Pistol is not the best defensive tool against rifle wielding attacker, but it is thousands times better than existing recomended defense – throwing books and staplers. How is having imperfect tool worse than bare hands when facing murdering monster?
If you had to choose between risk of ricochet from defender’s handgun and certain execution by murdering maniac which would you pick?
When police officers come to stop mass murderer, they don’t bring flowers or strongly worded letters. They bring guns. That’s because they know that guns are the best tools when you need to stop a murdering monster.
Crazy people are here amongst us. Since they are not locked up in institutions, they can, legally or illegally, get firearms. (And cars or trucks, gasoline, fertilizer, poisons etc.) When they decide to use them to hurt and kill, guns in intended victim’s hands are indeed the best solution.
1735099, your rant is full of bovine manure!
Why you think that armed and trained teachers are useless is just ignorant. First of all, allowing teachers to carry firearms is not the sole way of hardening the target. It is only one of several proposals (armed security, metal detectors etc.) to protect the students. Majority of mass shootings occur in gun free zones (soft targets). so the idea is to harden the target and make it more difficult for any attacker.
Your pistol vs. rifle argument is a fallacy also. At close range I will take a pistol against a rifle any day. This is not some type of Hollywood shooting contest where two opponents stand at a set distance and aim at each other to see who has the fastest bullet. When the assailant comes crashing through the door, the teacher will just pop them a couple of times before they get the chance to murder more children. As for body armor (not every mass murder can afford it) just head shoot them. Body armor leaves a lot of the body exposed.
From what I read of your comments, I will take my military firearms training over yours any day of the week.
I cannot fathom why Disarmists simply will not comprehend a scenario in which a teacher, armed with a handgun and lying quietly in wait behind an upturned heavy desk inside of a darkened classroom, can easily shoot and kill a rifle-armed Monster as soon as he opens the classroom door–silhoutted perfectly against the bright backdrop of the hallway behind him, a perfect target. . .
They always assume that the teacher is going to go all ‘Rambo’ and strike out a-hunting after the armed Monster, leaving behind cover and concealment to face down the killer in a ‘mano a mano’ High Noon confrontation, going muzzle to muzzle with him and his rifle as God and Hollywood intended.
This ain’t Dodge City, Pilgrim, and you ain’t Wyatt Earp.
from that snapshot… pearls were no doubt seriously clutched!
Wells Fargo= AFT lose $$$.50 ..NRA lose $$$.49 = bye bye NRA. None of the banks give a shit beyond the money
As someone that works in the banking industry I can confidently say Wells dropping TNVC had nothing to do with guns.
Dropping a company due to their profile doesn’t usually refer to the products they sell.
Post 9-11 the cockpit doors got reinforced… post Sandy Hook the teachers union refuses because it is the perception of jailing everyone in the building.. that political bubble extending beyond their wages and benefits I find bothersome… with public schools that buildings are owned by the community with private Banks they are owned by their shareholders… Educators do not run America.
So, because they aren’t getting enough push-back on mandatory membership from their supporting particular candidates (that some “members” don’t) with union funds, the teachers’ unions have decided they need to do issues advocacy.
What, they aren’t getting sued enough?
These idiots along with other groups are interfering with lawful commerce,
we are not talking about providing banking service for drug cartels.
Just like the DOJ Operation Choke Point, this program targeted drug dealers and was
expanded under Obama Administration to target law abiding firearms dealers.
I know everyone in the comments is saying “don’t bank with Well’s Fargo,” but we are running out of options. Two banks have already made hard stands in favour of this illiberal bullshit, numerous others tacitly agreeing, and only one has stood its ground and said “no.” If anything, we ought to support WF even more, and telling them why we are. Maybe then they’ won’t be forced by the regressives to aid in the disarmament of the citisens.
I am a teacher and I hate teacher unions. They take teacher money and spend it on their political causes, not true education.
I agree…..they all operate in the same fashion…..giving millions of dollars to political campaigns and expecting payback in return…the problem is these “unions” claim to care about their workers when I know they do no such thing….I have seen just how “representative” these groups are…just go on strike and see what happens….you are told that everything will be okay as long as you stand your ground….LIES……I watched my brother lose EVERYTHING, including his home because of the forced compliance in a strike…….he was one of those who believed in unions and “drank the Kool-Aid” and now, he wouldn’t give them air if they were in a jug!!!
Hey, why are you standing by administrators in schools districts that are not doing their jobs! You have district administrators that allow counselors as well as teachers that bully students and staff! So you think that is okay. Law abiding citizens have RIGHTS, REMEMBER…. This is the United States of America!
If you’ve forgotten your History, why don’t you read up on the history of how we became the United States….. Remember the Colonists did not want a a cruel and oppressive government. And we all know the meaning of an inanimate object ……..(which a firearm is) , which does not have the ability that a mind has and does not kill or murder…. It is the human that is holding this object that does the killing/murdering.
When those that are in charge of teaching the humans bully and belittle another human that is or does not have all their mental capacities something like Parkland goes on. I do not see your organization doing anything to the government entities that were at fault in Parkland, i.e., the school board, the Sheriff’s Office.
No, you People think that by taking away the firearms to those that ARE doing NOTHING WRONG, that it will make the problem go away. You all need to get out of your BUBBLES! You educated people need to get into the real world!
Those who cannot do, teach. Those who cannot teach, teach gym. Those who cannot teach gym, work for the American Federation of Teachers, NOT YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND NOT YOUR KIDS.