Gosh, do you think Chicago’s burgeoning criminal class will start to get the message? . . . Man dies after shot by concealed carry holder during robbery in South Loop, police say
A man has died after he was shot by a concealed carry holder he tried to rob on Christmas Eve in the South Loop, according to Chicago police.
He chose…poorly.
Corey Haggard, 37, was shot around 6:15 p.m. Sunday at a strip mall in the 1200 block of South Jefferson Street, police said. He died at 11:37 p.m. on Monday at Stroger Hospital, according to the medical examiner.
The only problem here: the un-named concealed carrier’s license was issued in Indiana. According to USA Carry’s handy-dandy reciprocity map, Illinois doesn’t recognize Indiana permits. As a matter of fact, Illinois doesn’t recognize any other state’s CCW permit…a situation that may very well change soon. We’ll be watching to see if the robbery victim will be charged with a crime in the shooting.
He won’t be charged, just will never this particular firearm again.
On another happy note, CCL holders have shot just under 1 the same amount of people as CPD.
He has a better chance of getting back that set of keys that Jack Handy dropped into the volcano, than he does that gun.
“The only problem here: the un-named concealed carrier’s license was issued in Indiana.”
Is he likely to get charged?
There is always one “silver lining” that comes from these shootings, the scumbags are permanently removed from society and the gene pool! Criminals are criminals for a reason; if they were the least bit intelligent they wouldn’t resort to crime and would have the ability to hold down a job! It’s also obvious that these fools don’t watch the news, or they watch the “fake news” that never reports on “good guys with guns killing bad guys with guns”, so they are completely uninformed. Hey, that’s another “silver lining”!
Oh no, the river of iron claims another victim, who just so happened to be turning his life around. S/
Sorry TTAG. He won’t get off scotfree. He’s not the 1st Indiana CCL holder to shoot someone in Illinois. A “legal” Indiana dude got in a gun battle on 111th street a few years ago and lost his life. It’s why I hate Illinois and am planning(?)on moving eventually. Indiana recognizes Illinois but disdains everyone else save a few states I’ll never visit.
According to the HandgunLaw web site (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/indiana.pdf), Indiana honors all other states’ permits. It’s Illinois that honors no one else’s.
I believe he meant that Illinois disdains most other states. I personally think Illinois disdains all gun owners, even police and military, but that’s just my opinion.
@Omr, it doesn’t matter what former water walker meant, that is NOT what he said. @Kendahl is correct in making is “CORRECTION” to former water walker’s comment, because former water walker isn’t smart enough or too lazy to proof read what he wrote to make sure he doesn’t look like a dumba$$!
You might want to look for a better example than “legal” Indiana dude.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-police-fire-shots-in-mount-greenwood-20161105-story.html
I guess that would be a good question to ask your attorney…. do you still have the right to use your gun in self defense if you cross into another state knowing or not knowing if your state issued CCL is NOT recognized in that state?…..should that state NOT recognize your CCL will you then automatically be charged with and most likely convicted of murder even if all the elements of self defense(ability, opportunity and jeopardy) show it was a righteous use of deadly force to repel an attacker?…. I am sure that depends on what jurisdiction you are in and for our friend from Indiana who happened to be in “Madiganistan” at the time ….the situation may not bode well for him….I wish him the best of luck and if he has any of the firearm insurance policies I hope they will still go to bat for him.
“should that state NOT recognize your CCL will you then automatically be charged with and most likely convicted of murder even if all the elements of self defense(ability, opportunity and jeopardy) show it was a righteous use of deadly force to repel an attacker?”
No, the elements of murder and self defense are the same whether or not you are illegally carrying a handgun in that jurisdiction. Your liability is being charged with illegally carrying a handgun even though you lawfully used it in self defense.
I agree. Illegally carrying a firearm is its own crime with its own elements to prove. Criminal homicide, whether murder or some other charge, is separate from whether the firearm was being carried legally.
Unless they can prove (or he’s stupid enough to admit) that he wasn’t transporting it in compliance with federal law, then it should be impossible to convict him of carrying illegally.
Armed self defense isn’t illegal in Illinois, so admitting to that shouldn’t open him up to prosecution.
I feel bad for the victim (and yes, the guy who shot the robber is the victim, the robber was the assailant). Now every year he’ll remember Christmas Eve as the day he killed another human. No matter how evil or dangerous that human was, that’s still a pretty big emotional burden.
The use of deadly force against the robber is a separate issue from carrying a gun without an Illinois permit.
A few years ago, an armed, but off duty, security guard was shopping at an Omaha, Nebraska pharmacy when a robber armed with a sawed off shotgun entered. The guard shot the robber to death. The guard wasn’t arrested and the county attorney decoded that the shooting was justified. However, the anti-gun city attorney briefly made noises about charging the guard with violating a city ordinance against carrying a concealed handgun without a permit. Eventually, the city attorney backed down claiming that there wasn’t enough evidence to ensure a conviction. My personal opinion is that someone quietly told him to quit making a fool of himself.
When Bernhard Goetz shot four muggers on a New York City subway train, he was charged with attempted murder and with illegally carrying a firearm. The jury found him not guilty of the first charge but guilty on the second.
The shooter may have been a specially priviledged class (current or retired LEO) that the Feds already gave CCW reciprocity under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act. Since shooter details are withheld, someone might not want to mention that federally mandated CCW reciprocity exists and the current proposal expands it to all legal carriers.
No reason to think he was. Most LEOs in gun friendly states don’t bother going to the trouble of getting handgun carry permits.
https://www.rawstory.com/2013/11/bernhard-goetz-80s-nyc-subway-vigilante-arrested-on-pot-dealing-charge/
Prosecutors charged Goetz with attempted murder, assault and various gun charges in 1985, but a jury only convicted Goetz of carrying an unlicensed firearm, for which he served about eight months in jail. Cabey later won a $43 million lawsuit against him.
Speak for it self
https://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/23/us/new-york–victim-bernhard-goetz/
to late should died before the lawsuite finished 🙁
There’s a lot of self-defense shootings going on in cook county lately. Unlike Baltimore, a law-abiding citizen can actually get a carry permit in the Chicago area.
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