http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrJMQupYxaw
“Connersville Police Chief David Counceller was shopping at Wulff’s Gun Shop in January, searching for a deal on a handgun,” indychannel.com reports. “Counceller was looking at a .380-caliber handgun and pulled out his Glock 23 to compare it with other gun. After he put the Glock back in his holster, Counceller tugged on his jacket. Within seconds, the Glock fired, striking him in the right leg. The incident was captured on store surveillance cameras.” No joke this – especially for those of us who carry striker fired handgun in outside-the-waistband holsters. I’ve pushed my shirt inside my holster many times. And this drawstring thing is no anomaly . . .
Deputy Steve Cooper, of the Marion County, Ore. Sheriff’s Office, accidentally shot himself in 2005 with his Glock 22.
While getting out of his cruiser, the gun fired, injuring his lower right leg.
“For a day or two, they were thinking of amputation,” he said.
An Oregon State Police investigation cleared Cooper, but blamed his windbreaker’s drawstring for getting caught in the trigger guard.
“When it initially happened, I was certain — there were four people in the car — I was certain someone else had done it. When they told me, ‘No, it was your own gun,’ it was pretty embarrassing,” Cooper said. “If I can prevent it from happening to somebody else, then I can get some good from what’s been a bad situation for me. I’ve got permanent damage to my leg, and my ego and I might as well try to make some good out of it.”
A jacket drawstring was also blamed in an accidental shooting involving a deputy in Louisiana. The deputy was using a Glock 23.
You have been warned. [h/t MR]
I would start by just wasting the staties time chasing ghosts. The rally isn’t a bad idea, just use all 10 round mags that look like 30 rounders. The police can try to arrest people and confiscate the mags which will open the doors to civil suits for wrongful arrest.
For CT banned rifle owners, store the rifle off any premise you may own, not in your home, your in-state vacation home, your car, your yard, or your business property if you own some in-state. Keep any evidence that could track back to the gun’s location off premises ie storage locker documentation, keys, etc. If the cops have no leads and can’t find it on your property, all they can do is ask you what you did with it. Then you can tell them you sold it in panic over the new law and were in such a hurry to get rid of it, you didn’t get any documentation of who you sold it to, out state in a gun friendly state like Tennessee. Make sure they have a warrant for any search of your property. Place cameras everywhere to record the police’s actions in your property so you could sue if the cops go too far. Make it as difficult as you can without obstructing, they will waste time and resources to come up empty, potentially embarrassed, and maybe civilly liable for violating your civil rights
That 1911 beavertail grip safety is looking pretty good now, huh? (Someone had to say it)
Until you are actually in a gunfight and have to use it with a wounded handed.
And you win the “FIRst” glock fanboy award sean
You can easily manipulate the 1911 THUMB safety with one hand. That is why it is called a thumb safety and not a “fiddle with your other hand” safety.
Nothing against glocks (except the shitty sights, grip angle and plastic trigger).
Why do people assume that they are going to have full control of their limbs when using a pistol. You are using a pistol cause it is a emergency. And I wasn’t talking about the thumb safety. That grip safety makes it almost impossible to use the 1911 with a injured hand. Or have you tried drawing it with the off hand and firing it upside down. Which people laugh at and call mall ninja. Until they meet people who have had to do it. Which makes you start rethinking manual safeties. Shit happens, you take frag thru your wrist from a guy with a s vest and you can only use the ring and pinky finger and have to fire your gun, or you take 30 rounds going thru a door. All these make it kinda hard to have But hey keep rocking that 1911.
Agree, Seans, and would add that the ‘in extremis’ shooting can also require weak-hand shooting from a rushed faulty grip.
My dad can beat up your dad! LAWLZ!!!!
Saber rattling? TTAG hasn’t that I’ve seen, though some comments could certainly be characterized that way. I see no major reason to change. Call it like you see it, as long as you clearly present facts as facts and opinions as opinions. I personally think TTAG does a better job of this than the legacy media.
As to comments, I’m sure many of us have actual red lines based on clear principles, specific practices that would be intolerable. It might be worth clearly and carefully thinking about this ahead of time. The decision to take up arms is deadly serious and should not be made at the spur of the moment, in a fit of emotion or because you have talked yourself into a corner.
Then, having clearly defined your personal lines in the sand, it might be wisest to STFU about it.
I have a PMR-30. It is a very fun pistol to shoot and people always notice it. I picked it up new for $380 and it is worth the price.
Only downside is that since getting it I have had the front site, takedown pin, and firing pin break. The good news is they are all easy to replace and Kel-Tec will send you new parts for free.
that was supposed to say Kydex holster. felt like I was doing a Yeti cooler commercial roto molded like kayaks
The thing that gets me of course is the whole ‘oh, that will give someone the time to charge them as they reload’ thing. Yeah, really?? I think that’s been proven false. Most people can swap mags in about 2 seconds, with a round still in the chamber.
But the bigger questions is to our gun grabber ‘friends’ who promote this retarded notion is: So are YOU going to be the one to charge the pyscho during mag changes????
I didn’t think so. So you just assume someone else will then, huh???
Always always make sure reholstering isn’t done nonchalantly. Any time you put a loaded gun anywhere, make sure the trigger is free of obstructions. That’s not the jacket makers responsibility, not the gun store owners, not glocks, not john Moses browning. You. Yes you.
What, consumers take responsibility for their own safety? That would be beyond the pale, sir.
Oh look, here come the Anti’s with their pitchforks and torches..
The correct number of rounds happens to be the number of rounds the gun I choose to carry holds. If it is my Glock 22 than it is 15, if it is my Kimber 1911 than it is 8, if it is my snub nose S&W air weight than it is 5. I choose how many rounds is right, not a politician.
Quick….lets rally the troops and ban sweatshirts with draw strings…they shoot people !!!
oh boy not another Glock vs 1911 argument I own a bunch of each! and I love them all. however as I get older I notice my case leaning more towards John Moses Browning 1911 classier sexier just more elegant of a firearm for an older gentleman!
Oh. My. God. Quadruple post. That’s a new record for me, guys.
i’ve heard this story before, told as “a guy I know’s brother has a buddy that…”. but to see it here in black and white with names and dates, makes it real for me. I’m going to consider going back to my 1911. It is what I started with, and shot the most with. I like my Glock, but I like all 10 of my toes a lot more.
I use Glocks plenty, and probably will continue to do so. But when I’ve commented on the potential of this happening IF THE USER ISN’T CAREFUL 100% of the time, responses I get go something like “nuh uh, there is that blade thingy in the trigger that makes it impossible for anything but the human finger to pull it!”
I’m sorry for the poor guy that this happened to, but I consider it a learning resource and hard evidence that I am glad I can finally point to when trying to give people as much info as possible to help them make the best decision for themselves.
I’d never turn anyone away from Glock but I think it prudent to admonish people of the potential risks of any course of action, when asked, and to advise them on the appropriate level of care necessary to obviate those risks.
I thought about that when my shirt snagged inside my holster as I was returning my Glock 23 to its leather OWB holster. While unholstering quickly can be a matter of life and death, re-bolstering is not.
It may be a moot point now because I managed to break that Glock 23. I plan on dropping it off to my local gunsmith to see if I can ascertain exactly what happened.
“In 1999, Counceller accidentally shot himself in the hand while assembling a gun he thought was not loaded.”
What? What does that even mean? Sounds like dude may be a bit of a doofus.
How, I ask, can someone be so magical as to be able to have a disassembled gun that is still loaded? Sounds to me like the chief had a magical ability to get a bogus explanation accepted the last time he pulled an ND.
First of all, I love Volokh, but I think he got things half wrong.
Also, the OP got the standard of review wrong. SCOTUS applied medium scrutiny in Heller because it declared that the challenged law failed under even that standard. The Court did not announce which standard(s) would be applied in future cases.
Heller was also a ban — and the Court is going to look sideways at bans.
Putting all that aside, SCOTUS might determine — and (if SCOTUS takes on mag limits) I think will determine — that States can set mag limits for outside the home where the their interest in pubic safety is compelling. For inside the home, I think that the exigencies are different and limits would fail judicial review under a heightened standard.
The power of states to limit ammo within firearms in public is well settled. For example, try turkey hunting with a tube full of 5 or 7 shot shells or deer hunting with a mag full of 8 or 10 rounds of .30-06. In most states, either one would be naughty, naughty. But when the Mighty Nimrod gets back home, he can fill those same mags to his heart’s content.
The State’s interest on what goes on outside the home may be compelling, but inside your home may be less. Heller, McDonald and two hundred years of jurisprudence say so.
Fortunately, if the Court holds that the States cannot regulate mag limits inside the home but they can outside the home, then mag limit laws fail if they prohibit or confiscate, rather than regulate the where and the when.
Yes, I know this is complex and will piss off the “absolute” crowd. But if 2A is absolute, how come prisoners can’t carry in jail?
Your suggested likely outcome does seem like the sort of thing they’ll do. The standard magazines can be stored indoors for those inevitable moments when tyranny appears, perhaps.
Suddenly I care about the clerks the justices hired this year.
Still waiting for the argument proving that “interest in public safety is compelling”. In fact, all known evidence is to the contrary.
Easy: No.
The 2A clearly prohibits infringement on the right of the people to bear arms, and explicitly for the performance of the duties of a Militia (other reasons for the right, e.g. self-defense or hunting notwithstanding). The right most explicitly protected, therefore, is that to the arms necessary to a militia, that is, the normal load-out of an infantry soldier (probably not crew-served weapons, Apaches, or nuclear bombs, to deflect a ridiculous strawman). It would be absurd to assume the writers intended to facilitate a militia limited to weapons suitable only for hunting, or limited to a small amount of ammunition, which would then be expected to defend the nation. Therefore, the ‘right to an infantry soldier’s load-out’ view is the most obvious and logical reading of the whole 2A.
Miller held the same – if someone had testified that short-barreled shotguns were in common military use (which they were), the SC said the 2A would have protected the right to civilian ownership of short-barreled shotguns. No one brought this to the attention of the SC, apparently.
I’m not sure exactly what Heller or McDonald say, since I haven’t read them. Nonetheless, it is the internally consistent reading.
Any infringement on the right of the average non-criminal, non-mentally-incompetent/incapacitated citizen, to the possession and use of common infantry weapons, is prima facie a violation of the 2A.
Volokh would have to argue that soldiers don’t need more than 10 rounds in a magazine to protect the nation. He’s sort of trying with the revolver BS, but that again is an irrelevant strawman. The people are the infantry, and the Constitution was intended to limit the government’s power to destroy that balance of power.
In reality, the Constitution has failed miserably, obviously. But I’m only arguing the internal consistency of the Constitution, not how it has been interpreted and applied.
Mike McDaniel’s points and counter points are very well done. Good job Sir.
This topic, along with other’s constructs that explore the plethora of “infringements”, can be found all around zee web. There are many thoughts addressing these issues, many opinions, and some even having a considerable degree of scholarship.
All these various sources are always an interesting ‘read’ because often there are nuggets that provide the reader with an epiphany for deeper understanding, no matter how well versed in Constitutional Rights or things ‘gun’ they already were beforehand.
Typically within “The Volokh Conspiracy”, the real Mother Lode of thought goes on within the Comments section. Untypically, Eugene Volokh misses the mark on this particular Second Amendment discussion.
Methinks it’s worth your time to give the whole thing a read because many address the issue without an over abundance of “Reasonableness” arguments and kinda mostly prof just “….. the facts Ma’am” from the Legal Chattering Class’ (sic) perspective.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/03/06/are-laws-limiting-magazine-capacity-to-10-rounds-constitutional/
This illustrates the danger, the very real danger, of lawyers arguing our case. Somehow, the good class of councilors got betwixt God and man. They will have to explain that in the eternal to St. Peter at least.
I nearly puked when I heard David Kopel and Alan Gura give the symbolic shoulder shrug essentially to full auto ownership years ago. Just last week on the BBC the immediate past President of the NRA David Keene did the same. All these folks are NOT people of the gun. They are lawyers first and foremost. And DC lawyers most of them. As such they are perfectly happy at arguing either side of the case. They don’t have any real skin in the game. They would be excited to argue the case for any given round count. All the way down to 1. If memory serves me right, the country of Ireland has a 1 round capacity for rifles.
Its a Glock. AD/NDs are just the nature of that beast.
Beware the ten year old with one gun. She probably knows how to use it.
There is no good reason not to reholster by carefully watching it back into the holster, slowly, making sure there are no obstructions.
Paul, you make it sound so simple…..
Bunch of legalistic mumbo-jumbo nonsense IMO. No one has any requirement to provide a “need” for why they would own standard capacity magazines. The almighty State has to prove a need for why it seeks to limit magazine capacity. This applies to any right. Otherwise, what size magazines a person has is none of the government’s business.
Interestingly, just his past week I was reading a “CCW for Dummies” type of info that recommended cutting such entanglements from one’s clothing with re-holstering and drawing problems in mind. Didn’t go into the ND zone, but there is someone out there who thunk of this before.
Another of many many striker fire accidents. I won’t carry a striker fire or a 1911 cocked and locked pistol. My choice for over 30 years is Old-Fashion DA=SA Sig with 10 pound DA pull with a stiff holster covering the trigger.
I guess I’ll have to add this to my list of reasons why I prefer a carry gun with a safety.
Every gun shop I’ve visited doesn’t allow loaded guns to be unholstered. Considering the ND history of police, there shouldn’t be any exceptions.
I just love you “know it all’s” using the term “mall ninjas”. I like my mpa 57, it shoots good and straight. But what I like most about it is that it was CHEAP and well made. Most people cant afford sigs and Colts or Kimbers. Mpa is bringing a wide variety of guns to the market that are well made and are very reasonable priced. So what if they aren’t as cool looking as a Cx4 or Fn herstal? I respect MPA for what they are doing and Im proud to own a firearm they made. BTW, looks nice in my vault beside my COLT defender and Kimber Pro Carry II…………………
As others have pointed out, Heller did not define what level of review was appropriate for these cases. I hope Mike or someone corrects the article. People should not have to read the comments to find out that there are factual errors in the original article.
Though individual results may vary, I’ve tried to enter this 3 separate times, and quit after 5 minutes each time. The entry never seems to go through.
.22 LR puts down a 1200 lb steer Everytime
I sold my Glock after it happened to me the third time.
Great photo ladies & I can use some of that downed firewood. I had to take the thermometer inside to keep it from getting damaged this winter.
This is why I use a CZ P-01. Queue CZ fanboy quip.
Childish AND irresponsible?!
No wonder he’s chief.
“Drop-dead gorgeous” was never more (in)appropriate….
She truly ain’t all that. She’s far from ugly, but I guess this is an eye-of-beholder thing. This beholder does not see “drop-dead gorgeous”.
her neck is not long enough, and hands were not manly enough
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On another occasion, he apparently also ventilated his washing machine by accident.
Sounds like he majorly violated the 3rd rule of being sure of your target.
bullpup!!! woooot
Does this mean that I have to remove my shoelaces when I carry in an ankle rig?
My wife says the dead girlfriend had already decided to break up with Oscar.
My guess is that she said “Oscar, it”s not you, it’s me. I just need some time alone.”
To which Oscar replied “Be honest, it’s about the legs, isn’t it?”
Then in thinking of a reply his honey hesitated just a bit too long…
Fuching awesome!
Nah… only moderately cool. Awesome is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9inz1irqgv4yiu9/Photo%20Sep%2029%2C%203%2059%2019%20PM.jpg
and getting this as a result:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tq7reitszri6eo8/Photo%20Oct%2010%2C%206%2028%2035%20PM.jpg
(Sorry… can’t help but brag. Great kid, overall.)
It’s easy to understand why the teachers don’t like this. It drives home the fact they are defenseless sitting ducks. And considering conservative, rural Farmington, many of them likely have the firearms to deal with the situation back home.
I ran across one at the gun show last weekend. It was priced at $1200.00. I giggled hysterically.
I have been ripping the Glock as an unsafe firearm since I started coming to TTAG. These kinds of incidents where something snags the trigger are why I never recommend a Glock. If you want a striker fired, ready to go handgun buy a Springfield. The grip safety prevents things like this from happening. And remember, you don’t need to engage the safety on a 1911 style or Beretta pistol unless you are going to handle the gun. They are just as ready to go as a Glock.
I have taken my P30S to the range a few times. For me it is not as absolutely accurate as other pistols I have fired. The accuracy certainly exceeds my ability. The trigger is a little spongy, but very manageable. What I do like is that it shoots any ammo I put in it without any problems. It is just a range gun for me, and carry is not a priority. I did buy an HK P30L threaded barrel and probably paid too much for it. My accuracy improved with the “L” threaded barrel. It also is drama free when I attach a suppressor to it. It is probably not the right pistol for everybody, but it has proven itself reliably through the worst that I can throw at it.
The Colorado shooter had a 100 rnd magazine that jammed immediatly during his attack thus saving at least 100 lives.
Far more than 100 lives were saved that day. ALL of the lives present in the several, non-gun-free-zone theaters Loughner passed (including, IIRC, the largest theater in the State) in order to reach his gun-free-zone target theater were saved.
And let’s take that argument farther: 100-round drum magazines are notoriously unreliable. Had Loughner been limited to 10-round magazines (and assuming that a mass murderer constrains himself to such laws – a quaint thought, that), and instead of one, 100-round drum had 10, 10-round magazines, a single magazine failure would have left him with 9 more, fully functional magazines – thus endangering the lives of even more people.
MDA would look a lot more classy if they had used this as an opportunity to welcome differing opinions and to acknowledge that they don’t have a problem with responsible gun owners.
Instead, true colors.
IMHO, that rifle is gaudy, if you want to see quality look at work done by Jerry Fisher, Steven Dodd Hughs, Michael Ullman, or D’Arcy Echol. American made rifles and made to look nice and function 100%.
JMHO
This man sadly missed his calling in the adult film industry.
Wow, They sure went at that with a gorgeous stick.
Because I live in Hawaii. I do have a Utah non-resident license so if I ever travel to a free state I will carry concealed.
I have an NAA mini revolver in 22 mag, and wouldn’t give it up for anything. Great little gun.
We did some work on a pigeon guided missile during The War.
I know the Twitter war on this post is officially over, but I had to pop back in here to say it….right at the moment I hate TTAG. Up until yesterday I was only on Twitter to (maybe) keep up on the snakes at MDA and MAIG. In the last 24 hours I’ve been locked in at least a dozen different Twitter wars with anti-gun nuts. Damn you for making me (at least a little) active for a cause I believe in.
Let’s not be too smug about claiming any sort of victory here. Armatix will find a way to market their product, then the market will determine its merits.
Vilify Oak Tree Gun Club if you like, but they did nothing morally or ethically wrong. They tried to offer their customers a choice. It makes no sense to condemn them just because some other state has an unconstitutional law.
An armed suicidal person across the street from a school…I’m not sure I see a problem with a lockdown. What’s the right thing to do? Just pretend there’s nothing wrong and hope for the best?
“Here’s One Way to Lose Your Gun Rights In Illinois”
Can you lose something you never had….in Illinois?
Michelangelo’s David is uncircumcized. Ponder that.
One of the funniest things to come out of this so far has been CSGV’s whine piece using the Hypo meme getting 472 likes and 473 shares on Facebook… with about 30% of the likes and shares being people supporting the meme.
Ladd should write a book titled “How to Utterly Fail as a Communications Director”.
Just to add a different perspective, I’m also a HAM radio operator. The HAM community regularly volunteers it’s time for disaster relief, storm spotting, etc. We “train” regularly on our own dime and our equipment is purchased on our own dime. The idea of “mustering” the HAM operators is ultimately voluntary in response to a disaster, although some are signed up as designated responders with the red cross or other organization. When needed, anyone able to respond does so. In the case of a militia, it would be useful to define the events that could lead to a call up. It’s also likely that most need would be in the first 12-48 hours after whatever that event was. So the most volunteers are only needed for a short period of time, while the hardcore can stay on to coordinate any other response needed.
Honor the oath or die.
Its a simple choice for them really.
Scary stuff this Connecticut business is. Any blood that comes from confiscation is on the govenor’s and the justices’, who did not strike this law down, hands
Except for C&R exchanges which are subject to different rules. Now the public can really be confused
This seems like a really mass market beer. If that’s what you’re into, it’s probably a better company to have your dollars than inbev. Personally, i usually reach for an IPA or stout. Unless i’m being a cheap bastard, in which case PBR makes me look cool…
Well, that is nice. My office’s firewall blocks junk like this. Thank heaven for small favors.
Typo in the article (“15 10”).
The 15 is a strike out in the marked up bill, so copying/pasting didn’t come through correctly.