Winchester’s Train & Defend ammunition works exactly as advertised. I achieved the same ballistic results with both Train and Defend .45-caliber rounds. Make the jump for targets. Click here for ShootingTheBull410’s review of Winchester Train & Defend 9mm round.
Winchester Train & Defend .45 Train ammunition. Seven rounds, seven yards, fired from a Wilson Combat X-TAC Commander. (Never mind the Sharpie.)
Winchester Train & Defend .45 Defend ammunition. Seven rounds, seven yards, fired from a Wilson Combat X-TAC Commander. (Never mind the Sharpie.)
I’ve seen shorter.
(That’s what she said)
Ah, good old Red’s in the suburbs of scenic Pffugerville!
Looks like a decent shooting ammo to spend a day at the range with.
My Winchester Ranger RA40T (.40 cal 180 grain JHP) is very close to my FT3 (Field Time Range and Target) .40 cal 180 grain reloads.
I haven’t yet found something as close for Federal HST 9mm +P 124 grain. Winchester is great stuff, but HST is my favorite. I wish Federal did a train / defend with HST +P.
I too carry the HST 124 +P and I’ve found plain Jane Winchester NATO 124 in the white boxes is very close. Not a true +P but shooting them back to back is very marginally different. Plus the NATO loads are cheap and produce heavy duty brass that I load super hot for my AR 9mm.
Just remember that the case volume of the NATO brass is slightly less than standard commercial 9mm and adjust accordingly 🙂
Thanks! I’ve been thinking about picking up some of that from Midway USA.
(Sponsored Content) ?
If you want ammo that “feels” like your defense ammo, then work up some hand loads with the same bullet weight and similar muzzle velocity.
With the money you save, you’ll be able to shoot twice as much, which will do more to improve your skills than buying gimmick ammunition.
Hard to do if you don’t reload. With the increased popularity of ccw permits many people are interested in firearms but may not have progressed to the level where reloading is a option yet.
Never mind the fact that unless you shop online and buy enough to justify the shipping and hazmat charges, most pistol powders have been almost unobtanium for the past two years. I have been wanting to load for my 45’s but just can’t find the components locally. Only for the past 6 months has the Cabelas in Buda finally had some of the more popular rifle powders with any sort of regularity.
I don’t know guys, reloading today sure isn’t the bargain it used to be. Unless you are shooting off calibers, most stuff is cheaper to buy in bulk than reload,
I fell in love with the T&D concept when Win demonstrated it (and explained it) to me at the TIFF last year. The 9mm is exceptional. But! You have to determine if the Defend round suits your needs, before adopting the two. STB410 demonstrated the capabilities of the 9mm Defend ammo from a 3″ barrel to be very near perfect, with reduced recoil into the bargain. If I were going to go to it in .45, I would first want to see gel tests from the Defend .45 from something close to my barrel length. But that accuracy rocks, I think RF ought to lend me that gun for a few years to see if I could match it.
OH! Speaking of TIFF, RF, are we going to have Cimmaron this year? I understand their headquarters is in Fredricksburg, not so much trouble inviting them, and any company that offers a single firearm in 6 different finishes can’t be all bad!
Shouldn’t the Train and Defend rounds be shaped exactly the same for reliability/feeding purposes?
In 9mm they are shaped the same, I have not seen .45. Pic above could go either way.
I’m not sure what value there is to be taken from this review other than that the rounds work in a sample size of 16 and you need to practice shooting more. Those groupings at 7 yards just show mediocre groupings particularly for a Wilson 1911. At 7 yards with a crisp trigger that ought to be a small clover-like grouping.
That’s pretty disappointing accuracy. If the combination of pistol and ammo can’t shoot one ragged hole at 7 yards it’s not worth considering for carry.
Rapid fire. And I suck. So… Minute of bad guy.
Slow down, build speed after accuracy.
And adjust your sights, you are either slapping the trigger or your sights are considerably off.
Sometimes training is more than just shooting tiny groups.
I’m not sure I follow the play on words?
At any rate, I’ve no personal experience with Winchester T&D, but a good friend of mine cordially hates it in .40S&W. Swears they go in a different direction each time out of his M&P40c.
I can’t speak to your accuracy – if that was rapid fire then it’s OK. Slow fire, only so-so. And we all know how every gun can be a law unto itself between brands, weights, any number of factors. More shootin’ = more information 🙂
PS: Doesn’t look like there’s a photo upload option here. Oh well
I ran some of the Defend .380 through our Mustang after the Missus was running a women’s event at which Winchester had reps showing the ladies what a gel test looks like.
The stuff only made about 730fps over the chrono (which is reasonably accurate). That’s supposed to be self-defense ammunition?
Did you watch STB410’s gel tests (link above)?
Did you weigh and chrono both?
I still have an affinity for Winchester’s White Box JHP. True, not the most technologically advanced hollow point, but it expands and it’s cheap. Better to practice with the ammo you carry than a very similiar FMJ.
If it goes bang every time and makes a hole in a head sized target at 7-10 yards, it’s adequate for self defense. You can argue it all you want, but that’s what it boils down to.
“Minute of bad guy” Love that!!!!
Perhaps I got a bad lot or something but my Walther PPQ that eats everything you can throw in it actually had a fail to feed with the W Defend rounds. Upon closer examination I found that the bullets were not seated nearly as deep as other hollow points I compared them to. This included two offerings Hornady, and some Gold Dots. I attribute this to them having trouble getting up the feed ramp in the Walther.
I just try to keep the training and defensive loads the same weight and call it good.