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Gun control advocates use tortured logic to defend their positions. Take the Bloomberg-distributed commentary Why Israel has lots of guns but few gun crimes by Rabbi Daniel Gordis [above]. It starts out like this: “Early in 2002, as the Second Intifada was raging, guns — normally ubiquitous in Israeli society — were even more in evidence. In restaurants, at synagogue and especially on the street, you could see pistols stuck into men’s belts or pants. One of my wife’s closest friends kept a gun in her purse.” And then he takes a sharp turn to the left . . .

Those were dangerous times in Israel. More than once, legally armed civilians killed or wounded terrorists in places as seemingly benign as the grocery store. I decided that I, too, should probably get a gun license, and promptly went to the appropriate government office to apply.

I’d been told that I’d have to justify my “need” for the license, so I brought a copy of a New York Times Magazine piece that I’d written about the violence. I indicated that was I going to write more pieces like it and that to do so, I would need to go to places less secure than Jerusalem, where I lived. It was entirely true. I filled out a several-page form, and was told that were my application declined, I wouldn’t be allowed to apply again. I signed the form and turned it in.

Several weeks later, I received notice in the mail that my application had been refused. The government thought I didn’t need a gun. So I couldn’t have one.

No reason given? Not by Mr. Gordis. Strangely but not unexpectedly (given the source), he’s OK with that.

More than a decade has passed, but I still recall that laconic refusal when I read about Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook Elementary and now Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. Guns are virtually everywhere in Israel, certainly much more so than in the U.S. Yet as Barack Obama noted in a recent tweet, Americans kill one another (per capita) 33 times as often as do Israelis. When we lived in the U.S., had I walked into any gun shop, I would undoubtedly have been able to buy a gun legally. In Israel, though, even at the height of the Second Intifada, I was told that I couldn’t carry a weapon.

So it’s a good thing that Mr. Gordis could’t buy a gun in the US because the United States is less dangerous than Israel? More dangerous? I’m so confused!

In the U.S., every discussion of gun ownership leads to the Second Amendment and a guaranteed constitutional right. In Israel, the ubiquity of guns distorts a deeper sensibility that carrying a weapon is not a right — it is a responsibility and a tragic necessity.

I wonder what the word “distorts” is supposed to mean there. Anyway, this might be a good time to bring up the fact that Israel instituted gun control in 2014. And then “loosened” it – a bit – after a bloody attack on a synagogue. I’m so confused!

In a country where almost everyone serves in the army — in which guns are associated with the country’s endless battle to stay alive — a culture of weapons responsibility, rather than rights, has emerged.

Along with that sense of responsibility — and the knowledge that Israel’s enemies, who live not far from us, are constantly looking for weapons to steal — comes intense caution. When our children were in the army, we got used to them coming home with weapons, disassembling them, hiding the parts separately and locking the doors to their rooms whenever they weren’t in them. There was no swagger or bravado about walking around with a gun; the sense was that it was sadly necessary — and dangerous. Young people in Israel are taught to take both the necessity and the danger seriously. They take their army- issued weapons with them wherever they go — even to weddings, even to the beach.

Gordis is suggesting that Americans who own guns are not responsible enough to own guns; as [allegedly] evidenced by the [supposed] fact that Americans own guns with “swagger” and “bravado.” Suffice it to say Gordis isn’t hanging out with the same American gun owners as you and I. Or checking the number of U.S. firearms-related homicides as a percentage of legal U.S. gun owners. Which can be rounded down to zero.

What we have here is another example of anti-gun elitism – by a man not deemed worthy to carry a gun in a country that he deems dangerous enough to warrant widespread gun ownership. Go figure.

But as Obama noted: Despite the hundreds of thousands of guns legally and illegally owned in Israel, and despite the stresses on society, Israelis kill one another with firearms at a small fraction of the rate of Americans. Just like the U.S., Israel is a society predicated on citizens’ rights. Unlike the U.S., however, those rights do not extend to gun ownership. So far, that has seemed to make all the difference.

Gotcha. Gun ownership is OK in Israel, but not the United States because it’s a privilege in Israel and a right in the United States. Yeah, not buying it. While I support Israel, the right to keep and bear arms is a natural right. Regardless of its relatively low level of “gun violence,” Israel’s denial of its citizens’ gun rights puts them in harm’s way. As Gordis admitted personally, and admits again in an earlier passage:

Israel, of course, has had horrific cases of gun violence. Baruch Goldstein killed 29 people and wounded 125 in an attack on Muslim worshipers at the Tomb of the Patriarchs in 1994. Yigal Amir assassinated Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995. Mentally ill soldiers such as Eden Natan-Zada (who was technically a deserter) have attacked innocent people. Israel has an underworld, and occasionally intended “hits” go wrong, killing bystanders. Israel is hardly immune to gun-related violence and death.

Would Gordis have been singing the same tune if he’d been at the synagogue slaughter on November 14, 2014? Probably. Which just goes to show you his level of inhuman delusion. As an armed American Jew and the son of a Holocaust survivor, I’ve got a message for him and his ilk: never again. Or, if you prefer a purely American idiom, you can have my gun when you take it from my cold dead hands.

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    • It’s “molon labe” if you are trying for the original Greek (μολὼν λαβέ) although “moron labe” would be appropriate when discussing ammosexuals and other conservatives that can’t spell.

      • Hey everybody. We got a hoplophobe here. Everyone point and laugh at the hoplophobe. He’s also throwing around sophomoric insults. But then, what do you expect from thought processes similar to that of a child, right?

      • re….ammosexuals

        Typical Lefty puerile obsession with sex.

        I’m convinced that the vast majority of the radical Left are mentally damaged people abused by one of their Lefty parents.

        All the favorable SCOTUS rulings won’t help them a bit, they need a shrink and/or medication.

      • How precious….someone who thinks himself supreme and eternal attempting to bring shame to a lowly human, cause of percieved misspelling. Dude, I am atheist, you, your opinion and your namesake mean nothing to me. And I am okay with that. So Go Off n Die. You won’t be missed. Where is my pitchfork ?

      • Do you feel the need to point out shortcomings and grammatical deficiencies, then cast aspersions about supposed sexual practices and/or fetishes of others to ensure you can get through the day and feel better about your own lack of personal fortitude regarding your own personal security and hoplophobic fears?
        If it makes you feel better, I left you a run-on sentence to critique and diagram.

      • You should change your name to something more fitting to your mindset.

        FecesEatingSatan comes to mind.

        • Eh, I’m pretty sure it’s supposed to be a shout out to the sci fi classic Enders Game. Granted, he lacking the original’s wit or depth, but I’m almost tempted to give him credit for acknowledging a novel most liberals are just inclined to blackball. Almost.

      • “Ammosexual” sounds a lot like “homosexual.” And you say it like you think it’s a very bad thing. Why are you such a homophobe?

    • Can this author perhaps include a comparison between deaths in Israel vs. the US by explosive munitions, bombs, IEDs, etc.? No, I guess that would highlight that we are two different countries with a different ways of life. Robert, maybe you can answer this, does Israel have a constitution? With wording comparable to our 2nd amendment? If not, then the comparison is not only moot, but deceptive.

  1. No offense Mr. Farago and other Jewish gunowners but being a HYPOCRITE is kind of a well known Jewish trait, and has been ever since yall killed Christ to protect your money and government influence.

    Which greed before good has become an American trait now, unfortunately as exhibited by your question on a civil war. No commenters on here said because it is the right thing to do, to not be indifferent to corruption, and that may require great personal sacrifices. Granted, some men’s honesty could be impaired by the fact that this forum is monitored by the Fedcoats, who would gladly kill other Americans and their families to preserve their power. The response from self-labeled defenders of the 2nd, was only after someone takes their money and level of comfort would they help their lesser countrymen. The Elitist anti-gun owner in Israel has more in common with the American gun owners exhibited on this forum more than he knows.

    Violence in America shouldn’t be new to an Israeli as both countries violence stem from minority groups, and the greater civilized culture has to tolerate the violence for political correctness among the global community.

      • Not really. Where you have ammosexuals bigotry against non-white ultra-conservative males is usually just a step away.

        • god, could you weigh in on that -less than 1% of crimes are committed by legal gun owners- stat? You seem to have glazed over that one

        • Ok, I am admittedly starting to find Mr. God’s “ammosexual” term mildly entertaining. Partly because I know that it took him a month to come up with it himself in his mother’s basement and partly because I don’t find it the least bit offensive. Better work harder on your insults buddy ‘cuz this ain’t botherin’ anybody. I’m a proud ammosexual and I’ve got a big .50 BMG round in my pants to prove it!

        • There you go again: “Ammosexual”! Why this fixation on the sexual predilections of other humans? As a non-white male human, I am compelled to ask, are you grappling with personal issues regarding your own buried desires and compulsions regarding firearms and human males, Caucasian and others?
          Could I be wrong, and you’re simply expressing your own anti-self defense bigotry, and you’re attempting to be hurtful to others, lashing out in a vain attempt to enact some sort of social leveling?
          You may wish to tend to your own issues before attempting to impose your own feelings on others who think critically before typing.

    • If the jews didnt kill jesus no one would give a shit about him. So you should be thanking them for making your lord relevant by sticking him up on the cross.

    • Wow, it’s hard to even comment on that, it’s so wrong – other than to say that perhaps you should read up on your history a bit, including an individual named Pontius Pilate. And note: I’m of Italian descent and a devout Christian. You probably think the Jews drove themselves to Masada and laid siege upon themselves with that logic. Read up bro. And (preferably) don’t come back.

    • I’ve noticed that quite a few Jewish people are liberal until they land in Israel and magically transform into conservatives. If only the Christian Zionists could grasp this.

    • “No offense Mr. Farago and other Jewish gunowners but being a HYPOCRITE is kind of a well known Jewish trait.”

      Give a bigot half a chance and he’ll step in pile of his own of s**t every time. And this guy thought if he could just write a little bit over his head we wouldn’t notice. We noticed.

    • “No offense Mr. Farago and other Jewish gunowners but being a HYPOCRITE is kind of a well known Jewish trait, and has been ever since yall killed Christ to protect your money and government influence.”

      BIOYA, jihadi ball sack licker.

      Come the day I’ll mow down as many commies, nazis and jihadis as I can, and save my last round for scum like you.

    • In4apennyIn4apound, f— off and die. We don’t share your prejudices and you don’t speak for us.

    • It’s not as if they’re hypocritical about border walls, or immigration, or Syrian “refugees,” when it comes to the US vs. Israel…

  2. If one would re-examine his numbers using both Israeli and Palestinian “gun violence” in the same category the numbers would be vastly different. That reasoning is entirely valid as he and his ilk always group legal gun owners with criminals. The “gun crime” numbers in the US are skewed by the gang problem we have and refuse to deal with. Were we to exclude these crimes from the numbers the US would be at the bottom of the list of “developed nations” in “gun crime”. Anti-gun pundits just can’t put the broad brush down.

    • The “gun crime” numbers in the US are skewed by the gang problem we have and refuse to deal with. The gun crime is spiked mostly by Hispanic and Black gang activity that usually occurs in just a few specific blocks of a big city called Hot Spots. Take away the few gang war city blocks and the US gun crime rate would be the same as Finland.

  3. I too read this article the other day, it was tagged something like ‘what Americans gun owners can learn from Israeli gun owners’ – and is basically a rambling, wandering, self-contradicting piece of elitist babbling blather. I couldn’t even understand what his point was, other than to find some way to talk about himself – and infer that somehow it seems to him that American gun owners ‘swagger around with bravado’ – which I have actually never seen with my own eyes, being a long time firearm owner/recreational and competition shooter. I think this guy has been watching too much TV.

    • Youve never seen anyone open carry a gold 50 cal desert eagle then. Its the most swagger and bravado ive ever seen.

      • haha, yeah that might count. (you’re right though, I haven’t ever seen anyone openly carry one of those. Only ever seen one in a gun case and thought that’s probably where it belonged).

    • I think this guy has been watching too much TV.

      I think he had a bit too much Passover wine.

      • One does NOT get drunk on Mogan David….but one surely can getsick sick nsick.

  4. One of my wife’s closest friends kept a gun in her purse

    And in the purse of Mrs Gordis you will find Dan’s nads. Apparently Rabbi Dan didn’t find it necessary, during his gadfly time in Israel, to JOIN the IDF.

    A lot to admire about Israel but the gov’t was formed by the kissin’ cousins of those that created the USSR.

    • And America fought with the USSR against Germany, and didn’t have the brains / nads to take out Moscow after beating the nazis.

      srael isn’t run by commies any more Rabbi Gordis is just another stupid lib who happens to be Jewish,. just like YOU HAVE ALL THESE SO CALLED CHRISTIANS in AMERICA voting for Obama, so shut your stupid pie hole already with your dumb ass comments.

      • By ww2, America had already degenerated to the point where the only meaningful difference between it and the USSR, was SR vs A.

  5. Ummm…stormfront in the morning. What I got was some Jewish folks are more equal than others. Or midget billionaires…BYW stay safe this weekend and Happy 4th!

  6. That ‘>1% of crimes come from legal owners’ stat should be shouted from the rooftops. Robert, ever done a blog entry just on that single stat? I’d like to forward that to a few people….

  7. For any who have been to Israel, you see many civilians with open carry pistols (mostly Glocks and SIGs and CZs) and M-4s. Their requirements are for community defense (not self-defense) and their licensing is appropriately conducted. The weapons are military style and the licensees are required to have served time in the military with the weapon they own and either be retired Regimental Commanders or still be Reservists, qualify with the weapon annually, keep no more than 50 rounds, shoot the weapon every 3 months to maintain proficiency, and are limited to owning 1 weapon which is kept in the “club” (aka neighborhood armory) until used in the range or needed in an emergency (BTW police can order clubs to close if they don’t want people armed). JPFO website gives a good review of what Israelis can own.
    In reply to the author, there are much fewer weapons in Israel, the ones that do exist are controlled very tightly, and the owners are required to maintain proficiency.
    I wonder how the author would feel if we could all own M-4s if we keep them in a neighborhood armory, shoot them regularly, and only bring them out for events like riots?

    • I have been to Israel twice; once, when my son volunteered for SAREL, and then with the wife. 2005/7.
      Most Americans don’t understand the subtlety of Israeli Firearm Law. For instance, we had a tour guide, young guy, who was licensed to carry a concealed weapon. (CZ-75 was his choice.) He had served in the IDF, in combat, and lived there full time. And he had to demonstrate need which that he was a Tour Guide; he practically had to get an Archeology degree to get a Guide Permit to be one.
      Soldiers were everywhere with an incredible assortment of weapons, (at Masada, a high school field trip with about 25 teenagers were visiting. Two older girls had pulled security detail. They had M1 Carbines.) most with a plastic magazine holder that had a right angle magazine well plug. The theory was to pull it out, rotate it, charge the weapon, ready to go. (I guess trying to reduce AD/ND’s.)
      Every building of any significance had armed security, you were searched at every entrance, and they weren’t kidding around. My Irish-Welsh/Filipina son was constantly be challenged by the authorities cause they thought he was Afghan.
      The Israeli Goverment wants about 10% concealed carrier rate, but they get to pick. You have to check a few boxes to get permitted. Not to say that there isn’t a sea of weaponry floating around that neck of the Woods.
      But The Israeli Govt is not that gun ‘friendly’ to the average person.
      Look up Ma’alot School Massacre and what they did to respond.
      Guns in schools are not an issue.

    • Bill, yes. And no. Jesus was brought to the Roman authorities because he threatened their corrupted religious order with the truth by highlighting their hypocrisy. Since they were under Roman rule at the time, the Jews could not by themselves crucify Jesus. Only the Romans could. At the time, the local Roman authorities could not afford any more trouble out of the Jews for fear of Rome removing them from their positions. In order to keep the Jews satisfied, they accepted the false, trumped up charges against Jesus provided by the Jews. And they crucified him for the Jews, not for his teachings, but because the Jews accused him of claiming to be a king (thereby threatening Roman rule).

      • In reality it was all about keeping the gravy train going for the church. When Jesus kicked out the money changers in the temple that’s when the rabbis got their enforcers, the Romans, to put the kibosh on that behavior.

        • Historically organized religions are like the mafia, doesn’t matter the kind. Money and power always breeds the same result, the willingness to retain it at all costs. If anything I’m bashing all organized religions, which I find nauseating.

        • “Historically, organized religion is like the mafia,” is simply a special case of organized anything being like the mafia. No self proclaimed “leader” wants those he fancies his “followers” to have a realistic veto on the following part.

          The religion part is at worst neutral. Its the organized part that is problematic.

  8. “Yet as Barack Obama noted in a recent tweet, Americans kill one another (per capita) 33 times as often as do Israelis.”

    Comparing apples with oranges only produces knowledge that both are round. Israel is so culturally and demographically different from US society that, aside from being polemical, these kinds of comparisons are not at all relevant. But of course coming from the mouth of a politician or the writing of someone who thinks we shouldn’t own guns, than really doesn’t matter very much. What the Prezzy and Rabbi Gordis won’t talk about are the kinds of authoritarian steps government would have to take to confiscate guns in this country. And blanket confiscation of private weapons is the only way to achieve the kind of utopian “gun-free America” that gun controllers assure us can be achieved by making incremental “sensible” changes. They know this of course, and I am sure the good Rabbi knows this. They also don’t want to know that blanket confiscation will do little to stop criminals from obtaining and using guns to kill people.

    • Forget apples and oranges, the claim is an out and out lie. The good Rabbi includes suicides in his numbers of Americans killing each other, which unsurprisingly massively skews his stats, a there are two suicides of every homicide. Dump the suicides, and yes Israel is much lower, running about 1 homicide for every five of ours–but last I checked, that is not “33 times.”

  9. From what I am reading Mr. Gordis is not a citizen of Israel. He is a visitor with a visa. Tourists or journalists do not need to be in places where they can get in the middle of the war. Journalists embedded with our troops are seldom armed. Moreover, if Israel were to start issuing weapons permits to non citizens an enemy of the people of Israel would get a weapon. By at least forcing enemies of the people of Israel to smuggle in weapons increases the chance that law enforcement will break up terrorist smuggling operations.

  10. Personally, I could care less if you’re Jewish, white, non-white, strenuously beige or plaid. You have a right to secure yourself and your own through the means of self-defense. It does not matter whether you are in Buffalo or Beijing, Trenton or Tel Aviv, Seattle or Santiago, the state does not have the right to strip that means from a person. Until a person exercising that right actively imperils another, pointing and discharging a firearm versus merely carrying one, the issue should be moot.

  11. Americans kill one another (per capita) 33 times as often as do Israelis.

    Really? Thus Israel’s per capita murder rate is 0.14 per 100,000 residents? (The murder rate per 100,000 residents in the United States is 4.7 … therefore 0.14 = 4.7 / 33.)

    As it turns out, that is utterly and totally incorrect. According to Wikipedia, the murder rate in Israel is 1.8 murders per 100,000 residents. Thus Israel’s per capita murder rate is only 2.6 times lower, NOT 33 times lower. Rabbi Gordis lied to us.

    • Americans kill one another (per capita) 33 times as often as do Israelis. According to Wikipedia, the murder rate in Israel is 1.8 murders per 100,000 residents. USA white is 2 to 2.1, Austria is 1.1, and in Switzerland is .7
      Israel is a police state.
      More Bloomberg Jewish Rabbi puppet-distributed anti-gun propaganda.

  12. Americans kill one another (per capita) 33 times as often as do Israelis.

    Rabbi Gordis, you are a jackass. No wonder you were turned down for a handgun permit. Stupid people should not carry.

    Do you see a lot of Bloods, Crips, MS-13 and Latin Kings in Haifa or Tel Aviv? No? Maybe that’s why Israel is so “safe.”

    • What are the odds of the average Arab lucky enough to be let past the wall to be allowed a firearm, what with the no-appeal may issue system over there? Gun crime was probably lower in the US when poor immigrants and minorities were likewise disarmed –doesn’t make it right (well, not to moral people) but could explain the lack a readily-available armed gangs.

  13. Sorry wanted a gun site, not a bunch of people spouting Religion and demagoguery about the Jews and Homeland! the edicts about weapon control is man made! I can not find in the Bible, Torah or Koran specific passages about banning any weapons used for self defense!
    so blame the freaking Government and quit whining! the ones responsible are the Politicians, so castigate them, slander them speak ill of their race of bloodsucking vermin!

  14. It is against the law for a non- jewish person to own firearms in the jewish state. As far as I know it is still against the law for non- jewish people to own and possess firearms in Israel. When people talk about mass murder outside America, the 1994 mass murder by a jewish man is not talked about. Left wingers usually say he was a crazy right-winger who did it. What they don’t say is left wing jews are quite happy to disarm the arab population of the jewish state. In America it is left wing jewish democrats like “up” Chuck Schumer and Diane “only guns for me” Feinstein.

    Many American gun owners say we should have Israeli gun laws so we can open carry our AR15’s everywhere. I say no thanks. Israel has no second amendment. The UN report on the cave of the patriarchs massacre said arabs should be given the right to have firearms. Everywhere else in the world the UN says no guns for law abiding civilians.

    Keeping people from getting firearms has led to increased knife attacks in china, the UK, Australia, and Israel. Criminals just use a different weapon. Anyone who denies a law abiding citizen their gun civil rights is the enemy. Charleston SC is not the first place where a house of worship was disarmed and then attacked.

    “The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre, also known as Ibrahimi Mosque massacre or Hebron massacre,[1] was a shooting massacre carried out by American-Israeli Baruch Goldstein, also a member of the far-right Israeli Kach movement”
    “The attack left 29 people dead and 125 wounded.[4] Goldstein was only stopped after he was overpowered and beaten to death by survivors”

    …In Israel, there is virtually NO private gun ownership (the exception being Jews, and not Arabs, who live in the “occupied territories”). Almost every weapon belongs to the army, police force, or private security firms licensed by the national police…

    For those with guns:

    …as they are required to account for the bullets they use, which means that there is almost no target practice outside of government facilities which are specially designated for that purpose and for which bullets may be obtained…

    This is not anti- Semitism. If you are a jewish civilian you can’t have a gun. If you are a Christian you can’t have a gun. If you are an atheist you can’t have a gun. In the socialist Jewish state of Israel only members of the government, police, military have guns. Does this sound familiar Shannon watts? How about you Mr. Bloomberg? Any questions President Obama?

    • Thank you. Too many people forget that Israel is a veritable police state as a result of their self-imposed ridiculous tactical circumstance. Hardly something to aspire to, in that sense. Desperation breeds compromise, and Israel is heavily compromised in many areas Americans take for granted as being free. A lovely confluence of pig-headed stubbornness being pitted against the most barbaric forces active on Earth, both sides roping in support by extending the conflict.

  15. People like Gordis talk themselves in a circle. Anyone with half a brain knows to compare the USA to Israel is absurd. Gordis does, no need to say more about Gordis.

  16. “In Israel, the ubiquity of guns distorts a deeper sensibility that carrying a weapon is not a right — it is a responsibility and a tragic necessity.” Indeed, carrying a weapon is a right *because* it is sometimes a tragic necessity (*), and as with other “rights” also a responsibility.

    In the US, the carrying of a weapon is a right … and a responsibility and a tragic necessity. The folks who responsibly, legally carry aren’t infected with “swagger and bravado.” Indeed that sensibility is front and center. Clearly, this guy has been visiting the Bizarro-US in his head (In Bizarro-world, everything is backwards – ed.)

    (*) Interesting that un-gun-guy describes carrying a gun in Israel as a tragic necessity, because some number of armed thugs may decide to shoot up people going about their business in a grocery store (or maybe a church – ed) to make a point. Yet, in the US, carrying a gun is something else because … apparently we never have armed thugs shooting up people going about their business, to make a point or otherwise.

    Then he sites “gun violence” statistics in the US, representing many instance of armed thugs shooting up people going about their business. I am confused.

    One wonders, what makes the guns in Israel decrease violence, while the ones in the US increase it. Something in the air? Or, we’re just not the right people to have such things? Or what?

    Or maybe it’s that in the US if you want to carry a gun you can, more readily in Israel, where he, himself was refused the right to carry a gun by the government there when he thought otherwise. That’s not a lot of confidence in his own judgment. Or in his own worth. OK, gummint, you don’t think the risk to other people (or yourselves) is worth me being safer. OK with you if I prefer my own survival to yours?

    Why am I suddenly recalling the opening Operative scene from the movie Serenity. (Just fall on your own sword for the greater good. Here, let me help you. Note: The Operative was The Bad Guy in that story.)

    • Well, at least he didn’t out-and-out say that America is different because there aren’t a bunch of crazy Muslims out to kill us…

      I hate the Bizzaros (except for Turtleface)

      • “Well, at least he didn’t out-and-out say that America is different because there aren’t a bunch of crazy Muslims out to kill us…”

        Oh, that’s good. That’s a rejoinder right there.

        “So, we don’t need guns because we aren’t surrounded by a bunch of crazy Muslims who have sworn to kill us? Is that the difference?”

        “BTW, what rate of shelling, suicide bombing and so on is sufficient to justify civilians arming themselves? (Because simple bad actors shooting civilians incidental to robberies, home invasions, or their drug enterprises doesn’t count … or the US would have more use for guns. So, getting shot at by people with a flag – arm yourselves. At “random” you gotta just take it.

        That seems like a prerogative of nation-states thing, but don’t recall that form the Treat of Westphalia.”

        “Oh, their under threat? So, what degree of ‘Death to America’ counts as a threat? Three buildings, four airliners, two embassies, a ship and a barracks aren’t enough, so what’s enough that it counts?

        Oh, I forgot, there was the shooting up of the JCC in Seattle for obscure motive (stopped by security within, but that’s OK, because, see above.) And some folks count the workplace violence at Fort Hood as part of the same list. Also shoe bomber in plane, bomb found in Times’ square, and Boston Marathon.”

        Argument-wise there’s no place to go with any of that. Tied themselves in knots, so let them live with it.

        Net is *other people* can be trusted to protect themselves sensibly, but apparently we in the US can’t. Actually citizens in good standing cannot, while we’re less interested in disarming non-citizens and people who shoot things up as part of their drug enterprises.

        Good to know. However, I would like some guidance on how to get out of the remedial class. Aside from being born here, what’s my under-performance? Maybe I can fix it.

  17. For some reason I think many of Israel’s hilltop people don’t have permits for their guns. Here’s a question. If you are in Israel and the SHTF (which it frequently does there) who do you not want to have your back:

    1. Young guy who just got out of the IDF who has a Glock 19, a carton of cigs, and some top ramen in his yurt somewhere around the Golan Heights.

    2. A Sephardic Rabbi who fled the Jewish Purge in Iraq in the 60’s/70’s who also has a Galil in the closet.

    3. This guy.

    • If you are in Israel and the SHTF (which it frequently does there) who do you not want to have your back:
      Me with my own long gun of course.
      But the guy with the Galil would be welcome company, and I would also welcome the IDF guy with the Glock as well.

  18. What struck me Mr. Gordis stated the application was a one- time- only chance. And he apparently received no reason for denial of that application. So Israeli citizens can be denied gun ownership because some bureaucrat has a bad day and can deny applications wholesale. Mr, Gordis is fine with that. Hmmmm.

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