Why Gun Confiscation Won’t Happen in the United States

California Gun Seizures

(AP Photo/Jae C. Hong)

The quote of the day is presented by Guns.com.

Jon Stokes is a founder of Ars Technica and a former editor for Wired. He writes about guns and technology for TechCrunch, All Outdoor, The Firearm Blog and other publications.

I have a theory on this that I’ll probably regret sharing but here goes. A few years ago I thought the talk of violence if there was a gun confiscation was mostly talk. But for the past 2 years a certain dude has given the public a master class in how power really works…

In short, you can get away with anything if the other side is sufficiently scared of civil strife. Violate any law, break any norm. If you’re a star they let you do it. You just have to be willing to go there. The other side will just cower & pray to the norm fairy.

So I think the game has changed, now. All gun owners now know it won’t take much ugliness to put a complete stop to any confiscation effort. And that’s assuming you can get cops to carry out that order, which is not certain.

In NY it’s estimated that most of the gun owners not in compliance with the SAFE Act are cops. In many states the sheriffs are leading the 2A sanctuary city efforts.

So a confiscation is not ever going to happen, no matter what laws pass. It won’t happen because there is no appetite to enforce the law against any but the poor & defenseless. In 2019 laws are only enforced against those who can’t hit back. This truth is now out in the open.

Gun owners as a class can hit back, & they’ve all been well educated that if you can hit back or if everyone just thinks you can and will, nobody will come for you. Lots of powerful lawbreakers have taught everyone this lesson repeatedly now.

– Jon Stokes in a series of tweets yesterday

comments

  1. avatar Viejo Torro says:

    Following

    1. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

      Yep.

    2. avatar Jeremy B. says:

      Umm. You guys do know about the gun confiscation during Hurican Katrina, right? A warehouse FULL of rusty guns was only opened and admitted to AFTER lengthy court battles.

  2. avatar Shire-man says:

    The downside of a soft first world society is that a small faction of strong-armers can get their way.
    The upside of a soft first world society is that a small faction of strong-armers can get their way.
    The only question to ask is who will the strong-armers be?

    1. avatar PistoleroJesse says:

      probably not the ones who think weapons are icky…

      1. avatar -Peter says:

        They only think your weapons are icky. The weapons that they can indirectly command and point at you to enforce their vision of society are just fine in their book.

  3. avatar Rick the Bear says:

    Perhaps not in the way that the Prog elites would like. It will happen in dribs and drabs as people run afoul of various laws and restrictions (including “red flag” laws).

    People with too much to risk (e.g., small children at home) will either comply or simply hide their contraband away rather than become involved with the justice system.

    Many gun owners in restrictive areas/states have already gone somewhat underground in a prophylactic maneuver.

    Sad.

    1. avatar Tom T says:

      You hit the nail on the head. “Too much to lose”.
      Look at the “protest” mobs on the left. You don’t see that behavior from working class conservatives because of the repercussions. A single arrest or a weekend in jail can cost you your job. Lose a job and you risk losing your house, everything. Your whole family is impacted. A confrontation with law enforcement over a firearm would be even worse.

      Beyond that is the ever-present treatment by the press. A far-left nut burning police cars is portrayed as a hero. You would be vilified and associated with the “white nationalist” boogeyman. A “right wing extremist”. And again… your family gets punished.

      We are the civilized ones and that has become a weapon against us.

      1. avatar Joatmon says:

        Exactly.
        We’ve all seen on TV or elsewhere the burning of cars, assaults on people and other things from the left and Antifa. The media loves that and they’re “heroes”.
        Now what if you had a March with the Oath Keepers or some 3%’ers? No burning of anything or assaults, just a March for the 2nd amendment? There would be panic. News would be covering the “White supremacist” march and Trump would be to blame, maybe even the NRA, SAF, GOA or others. Probably all of them.
        Gun owners are vilified from the left. We’re the problem, we’re the reason for mass shootings and so on. That’s never going to change and their view will remain that way.
        If it ever happened (gun confiscation), would I turn mine in? I hope to never be put in that position.

        1. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          A number of different groups marched to protest the removal of a statue in Charlottesville and now even our people refer to them as white supremacists, white nationalists, or Nazis.

          No one says anything about the police directing them into the midst of BLM and antifa, then ordering them to disperse and forcing them to do so through antifa and BLM, and then the cops withdrawing and letting violence ensue as part of a planned ambush.

          No one says anything about the white guy down in the background of the famous parking lot beating photo. The white guy beaten down by blacks, one of whom was the black guy down in the foreground being beaten by those who came to the rescue of the white guy.

          No one says anything about James Fields car being under assault with bats and bricks when he hit the gas.

          Even Ann Coulter refers to them as white nationalists, or white supremacists, or Nazis.

          If those guys had no chance of not being labeled Nazis, even by people nominally on their side, what chance would white guys with guns have?

        2. avatar Mina Smith says:

          You’re the first person I have seen accurately report on what went on in Charlottesville or commented on how “our team” has even turned on the attendees as white supremacists. Did you see how they changed the audio of the torch march from “you will not replace us” to “jews will not replace us”?

        3. avatar GG says:

          Guys, the tiki torch march was really a bad idea. Regardless of what was chanted, the fact that not one person gave a thought to the optics of that is mind-boggling. Either it was deliberately intended to evoke a 30s era Nazi rally, or the organizers were oblivious to the fact that it would be perceived as such by the media covering the event. Either way, it’s inexcusable.

      2. avatar Phil Wilson says:

        “We are the civilized ones and that has become a weapon against us.”

        It’s been that way for a long time now. It’s just becoming more open and blatant.

      3. avatar Sheer Hawai'i says:

        The founding fathers knew they risked everything when they signed that pesky Declaration of Independence. And most of them, indeed, lost everything but their freedom. Some rebuilt their lives, some died in debt. I can rebuild, too, if it comes to that. Jobs, real estate, cars, big screen TVs, and nice kitchen appliances vs. living in a totalitarian society where our old American values are simply history and gone? Anyone that folds and gives in to losing their Constitutional Rights doesn’t deserve any. There will be sheep, granted, but I’ll be running with the wolves if the SHTF.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          This is a stark and sober truth. The Founders did indeed risk much, and we may one day be called to do the same.

          It’s easy to type such brave words on a computer screen for others to see and admire, but I bolster them by thinking of my future grandchildren and the world (America) I want them to inherit. These certainly aren’t easy things to ponder.

          Then again, all it takes for everyone sitting on the sidelines to act is for a spark to ignite the flames. Right now, nearly everything is doused in gasoline and getting worse. At some point in the future, some person or group on the Left will attempt something horrific against gun owners, and the Resistance will go hot in a specific area. As fellow gun owners watch, they’ll become emboldened and will join in increasing numbers. I pray this never needs to happen, but it might.

        2. avatar Grumpy F'er says:

          “…but I’ll be running with the wolves if the SHTF.”

          I may be struggling to keep up (hobbling), but I hope to be there as well.

          I have no family other than my wife. She’s of founding stock (fiercely proud of that), and we’re on the same page.

          We’re not looking for trouble, but sitting around waiting to die (we’re older) and hope we aren’t arrested while waiting for meager government handouts isn’t in the plan.

          It’s chiseling of rights that we will see. Red Flag law confiscation. Rezoning of land eliminating ranges. Social shunning. Ammo will be tracked. We will be driven underground. No practice, no comradery, no sharing of culture, no bonding with children with firearms. Careful quiet talk about guns with friends. Who’s listening? Is the enthusiastic guy striking up a conversation a mole? Did you long time friend just get popped for something minor and is working that off by reporting to LE? Did you make sure your neighbors didn’t see you load/unload the truck for the range trip? No NRA or gun related sticker on your car? Make sure no one can see your phone/computer screen when reading email in case a gun ad is prominent?

          Is all this tin foil? Maybe, but it’s in me. THEY planted it, so whether it’s real or not, they are living rent free in my mind.

          Sorry to be Mr Downer Guy, but this really sucks. It seems to have sped up at an alarming pace.

      4. avatar Swarf says:

        Such delusional bullshit.

        I get that you want to think you’re better than other people, and “your kind” don’t do the bad stuff, but who do you think makes up the racist mobs the Antifa kids are itching to fight with? Working class conservatives *are* the Proud Boys and the Aryan Brotherhood.

        1. avatar Hank says:

          You are delusional bullshit. You’ve clearly never ever met a real member of the aryan brotherhood if you think working class conservatives are cut from a similar cloth. You don’t even know what the aryan brotherhood is I’m willing to bet. You’ve just seen that name on your liberal news sites and are regurgitating shit you know nothing of.

        2. avatar Bubba says:

          They’re not racist. Antifa is fueled by delusion.

        3. avatar Jim says:

          Antifa is made up of mostly violent young and impressionable liberal anarchists using Fascist tactics and are being whipped into their frenzy by our mainstream press! If you think the Proud Boys are racist, you’ve obviously been drinking the liberal Kool-Aid of the nightly TV news!

        4. avatar George Washington says:

          You got that right….antifa KIDS…..
          I wanna say this once and you better listen to me you snot nosed little mfkn BRAT…..
          You come around my neck of the woods talking that shit you will be put in your place in two seconds flat….
          Nobody gives a fk about your stupid antifa little bitches club…..
          You little mfers are really asking for it….i will say that

        5. avatar MtnDewey says:

          from a good friend and professor ,

          My answer relates to Mel Brooks comments in Blazing Saddles, “Rhetoric”. Politics will remain politics and neither you nor can are empowered alone to stop them. I have no doubt that it would indeed take another civil war to inflame Americans to the degree that good people would rise up against a tyranny thrust upon us by our “good” politicians.
          My personal opinion is that, even though the liberals keep spouting quotes of calling upon the U.S. military to enforce future gun laws, I doubt they could actually convince our military leaders who are sworn to protect Americans against all forms of invasion to stand against the average American with a force to disarm Americans. I know of no veteran or active duty personnel who would comply with such an order. We are sworn to serve and protect American and all American citizens. Therefore, the true threat, in my mind will arise from private armies created by the liberal radicals, which is already taking place in parts of Michigan cities, which are turning toward hiring private law enforcement operations. There is only one way to force Americans to give up their weapons, which is by force and the only force the liberals will ever be able to produce rests with the creation of a private army, which will never occur nationally, but could occur, over time, within every major city in the country, and probably the major Sheriff Offices. We are already witnessing some of the Sheriffs and police chiefs publicly supporting sanctions of illegal aliens. This is the first sign of privatizing law enforcement. When a political official empowered as a Sheriff or a puppet police chief signs on to support the liberal radicals in America, our safety and security as Americans are endangered. Beware of privatized law enforcement, my friend. “Rhetoric”.
          Kind regards,

        6. avatar MtnDewey says:

          yes the Proud Boys are an offshoot of radical racist parties, one founder was arrested and charged I believe for just that. They(Antifa/Proud Boys), are both idiot gangs of delusional self righteousness. both are dangerous, and both want an all out war, which those of us who are law-abiding American loving citizens will be drawn into just to defend ourselves I believe.

        7. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

          The aryan brotherhood is a prison gang. You are off your rocker. The right is the most law abiding populous in America.

        8. avatar Monte says:

          The aryan brotherhood is 100% all Feds.

        9. avatar drunkEODguy says:

          all the AB I’ve ever seen have done prison time. And you can tell. Def not some everyday white middle class folks

      5. avatar Shiy says:

        Nail on head. Worth re-reading. Excellento6 said.

        But, knowing it’s a trap is the first step in avoiding and countering.

    2. avatar Hank says:

      I honk some of y’all who declare gun owners are too scared to fight back aren’t looking at the entire picture. This big confrontation isn’t just about guns. Y’all always post oh well gun owners will all surrender when their families, jobs, and homes are threatened. But what you’re failing to realize is the left is now coming after all those things anyway. The left isn’t “just” coming for your guns anymore. They are going to take your private property anyway, guns or no guns. They’re going to take your children anyway, simply because you’re a conservative or libertarian. They’re going to ban your vehicle for causing too much pollution. They’re going to take your retirement for government funding. They’re going to tax you for being white. When you’re faced with the fact that their going to take everything from you anyway, you, yes even you reading this will be willing to fight. Because you’ll have nothing left to lose. And that will make you a more dangerous enemy then they could ever imagine. If you don’t believe me, take a look at the new wave of liberals coming up. The things they believe, the things they want to push for, are incredibly terrifying and evil. When those things come to pass, there will be conflict.

      1. avatar Dan W says:

        These things are already happening. Speak out against the powers that be in an meaningful way and you’ll quicky be unemployed and without banking services. Haven’t seen much real resistance yet.

        Worst of all many people even on here pile on to attack the evil white supremacists antisemitism Nazis wrong thinkers. There will be much virtue signaling to show how you’re not like those bad evil white supremacist gun owners and you should be eaten last.

      2. avatar MtnDewey says:

        I will not surrender, and am educated enough to know why I wont; not filled with hate or anger. Just knowing my lawfully protected God-given rights are just that, also my 4th,5th,6th,8th and 14th protect me legally as well in courts and out of them. We must all be educated and diligent, knowing our rights and making sure people understand we know them. No one wants to become case law, but it may happen to some of us to make this right. Also, join USCCA or whatever to protect yourself, not only form a shooting but also from red flag laws…which are in fact illegal considering they bypass the Bill of Rights completely.

      3. avatar LifeSavor says:

        You are spot-on, Hank. We all need to recognize the anti-freedom trends in this country constitute a real conspiracy against our Constitution and our way of life.

  4. avatar MMurcek says:

    With all the stories about the Odessa shooters “AR type” rifle, not one picture.

    1. avatar CC says:

      One of the most potent adverts you will see in the upcoming presidential campaigns will be Donald Trump saying background checks would not have stopped this killing — and then the fact that the killer was adjudicated mentally ill, was turned down in a FFL purchase due to his prohibition — and then bought an AR in legal private sale with no background check.

      The Odessa killer is a poster boy for UBC. So let’s be smart and take a DIFFERENT tack than emulating conspiracy theories from Sandy Hook.

      The correct talking point responses to an AR used in a murder is not to deny the fact. That just makes you look like a nut. They are:

      1) AR types are not even 1% of gun death.
      2) Biggest school shooting in e US, ever, was with handgun (Virginia tech) meaning an AR ban won’t do a thing.
      3) Biggest shooting of students worldwide was not in the US but in Utoya Norway, with a gun, the Ruger mini 14 Ranch, that is legal in Canada, in fact not even restricted or registered there.
      4) 90% of US shootings, including 80% of mass shootings — and the 90% of non -gun murder as well — are done by people with priors, which is why US murder plummeted when incarceration rates for violent crime were higher.
      5) Most importantly, applying, to express Bill of Rights liberties, the limits which the gun control advocacy groups advocate, is damaging to all our rights, including core fourth and fifth amendment rights. Few important rights would survive either a) the “safety” rubric, or b) the comparison to other developed nations rubric

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        The transfer was NOT legal. Crazyboy knew he had failed a background check yet he circumvented the law in order to obtain a rifle.

        The seller is CERTAINLY going to have his life ruined by the MSM. I hope NRA/etc is prepared to sue the hell out of them as an example.

      2. avatar Bob says:

        I thought lying on a federal form (4473) is a crime in itself. Why is that not enforced?
        If you fail a background check, either you have a failure at the FBI end or you lied when you checked all the ‘NO’ boxes.
        Same goes with the cops called when he threatened the neighbors with a gun who didn’t find the house…

      3. avatar jwtaylor says:

        “and then bought an AR in legal private sale with no background check.”

        What evidence have you seen of this? Even the public statements by the FBI have been more vague than this, saying that he “obtained his firearm without a background check”. The local law enforcement statement have provided only that he did not get his firearms through a background check. None of the actually law enforcement sources I can find say that he purchased the firearm from an otherwise lawful seller, who simply couldn’t know he was a prohibited person.
        https://abc7news.com/odessa-gunman-bought-weapon-through-private-sale-sources/5512073/

        There is no evidence so far that he paid the gun at all, or that if he did, he did so inside the US or that he firearm was not otherwise illegally obtained. Is this a flaw in the system, or an illegal sale from the start?

        1. avatar DJ says:

          Or was it stolen?

          We haven’t see an proof of how the ride was obtained.

        2. avatar jwtaylor says:

          Right, that it was stolen, purchased from someone who knew it was stolen, or otherwise sold it to him knowing it was an illegal sale.
          In any of those likely scenarios, no Universal Background Check would have stopped the sale. UBC’s only work if the seller is willing to comply with the law.

        3. avatar rt66paul says:

          Could it have been an 80% lower and he bought the rest of the parts and assembled his own?

        4. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          It’s not a flaw in the system. The system was specifically designed that way. Only FFLs are allowed to perform NICS checks and private parties are specifically prohibited from NICS for private gun sales. This is the way the system was designed.

        5. avatar No One Special says:

          If it is a “flaw” and fixing that “flaw” could somehow make gun more “safe” than why not change the system? Oh wait because the system itself is broke when information doesn’t get reported properly like it should. I’m not saying the system is needed in the first place but it can never work the way it is intended without being properly updated.

        6. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “I’m not saying the system is needed in the first place but it can never work the way it is intended without being properly updated.”

          The “intention” is to ensure (as in prevent) the wrong people from obtaining firearms. Since even a perfect “system” of data cannot prevent the illegal purchase of firearms, a “perfect” system cannot meet the intent.

        7. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          @No One Special: It wasn’t intended for private party sales, so don’t say it isn’t working as intended.

  5. avatar No One Special says:

    I agree with the article to a point. I often wonder how many gun owners have the appetite to hit back though? Honestly I think some would just hand them over. Security of life and things (except guns) are more important than freedom. If some gun owners hit back they stand the chance of losing that security. I also think that the federal alphabet goons would cary out a confiscation order if it came down to that. I also don’t think that local law enforcement would stand between the feds and gun owners. I think local law enforcement would remain hands off and wait for the dust to settle. All of this is generally speaking since the climate is different from state to state and town to town.

    1. avatar RidgeRunner says:

      I’ve said it before when it comes to a so-called “civil war.” One shot and life as you know it is over. That’s a big commitment to make.
      Of course, the author’s point is more along the lines of the uncertainty around whether or not gun owners would take that first shot.

      1. avatar No One Special says:

        If the government is allowed to take guns, the government can then take anything they want there after. That includes life and things (except guns because the government already took those). An armed society is the only thing that keeps tyranny at bay. Nope, call me a zealot if you want but I won’t just hand my guns over. I’d much rather lose everything making a stand for what’s right than lose everything anyway with no way to stop it.

      2. avatar DJ says:

        You have to know more than someone will shoot back.

    2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      @No One,

      Not everyone will need to have the “appetite”, as many will (as mentioned further above by another user) have children or other concerns that they won’t want to risk. But there are those who don’t have children, or whose children have grown, etc. who may be in the position of acting on behalf of the others.

      As of today, Kroger has joined Walmart in prohibiting open carry in any of their stores. So my go-to grocery store (which was my alternate to shopping at Walmart) is now virtue signalling as well. Just great.

      1. avatar No One Special says:

        I have a wife, preteen daughter, home, and things. My concern of the future well-being of those things is just important if not more so than the here and now. Being a man is easy until it’s time to stand up and be a man. I couldn’t look my family in the eye if I put their future in jeopardy because I bowed to the whims of a tyrannical government. It’s an individual choice and each individual may or may not have to make that choice at some point in the future.

        1. avatar Bubba says:

          Well said.

        2. avatar RidgeRunner says:

          That’s admirable and more power to you. My family wants me here with them more than my guns. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to having to make a move.

        3. avatar No One Special says:

          My family wants me here too. I’m not sure how that enters the equation. I am sure that if gun confiscation ever occurs, soon after anything can be confiscated. That includes house, land, things, and yes even you or your family. All of those things that seems to be a good reason not to resist can also be easily taken after guns are confiscated. If gun confiscation ever comes to pass that will mean all of those that just hand them over either tow the line or or the government jack boot makes them disappear. The priorities of things and luxuries are sorely misplaced. No one is born with them and no one takes them with them when they die.

      2. avatar HoundDogDave says:

        Got nothing to take that I haven’t been just fine without before. Can’t exactly say what I’d do, but I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t like it much. My better days are far behind me. I’m old and don’t have a lot of time left on this earth, but I sure as hell don’t intend to spend it under someones boot.

  6. avatar bryan1980 says:

    This article does a good job of pointing out a fact that’s always absent from the left’s gun-grabbing fantasies: Who’s going to do the dirty work of confiscation? Sure, there will be some areas where you’ll get cooperation from local law enforcement (“local” meaning anything other than the feds), but that’s going to be far from universal. I know if I were a county sheriff or a police chief, I’d never order my personnel to perform such a task.

    Just look at New Zealand; here’s a country of meek subjects, and their “buyback” compliance rate is 10%. Oh, and do you think the cops over there are going to knock on the doors of the Maori gang members who flat-out said that they’re not going to turn theirs in? Hell, those cops are probably scared of the Glocks hanging from their own hips!

    I know a lot of people don’t think we have the stomach to fight, however, if and when it comes down to confiscation, all that’s left to do will be to fight.

    1. avatar Phil Wilson says:

      “Who’s going to do the dirty work of confiscation?”

      It it comes to it, serious-looking, red bordered letters. Denial of government services (which, if all goes according to the leftist plan, it will be almost impossible to live without) and threats of asset seizure. Though, if we are to that point, the seizure of assets will happen anyway.

      1. avatar bryan1980 says:

        Yup, that was my point exactly. If it gets that bad, there will be no semblance of our “comfortable lifestyle” left, so we might as well fight. All we’ll have left to protect will be our God-given rights.

  7. avatar Mad Max says:

    There isn’t enough law enforcement officers in the country to actually perform an outright confiscation action (and we are losing law enforcement officers every day).

    Only about 0.2% of the population are law enforcement officers. Active and reserve military make up about 0.6% of the population.

    Concealed carry permitees make up about 6% of the population and total gun owners at least 30% of the population.

    Unless Duke Nukem Swalwell dispatches mutually assured destruction, it ain t gonna happen.

    Let’s just give the gun grabbers the finger and go about our business.

    1. avatar raz-0 says:

      Add in to your math the fact the the police definitely will not show up without overwhelming force, and the ability to do things really plummets, even with 100% participation.

      The reality, like with other laws passed by those who use fear as a marketing tool and tell you that they are the only way out, is that they will not really enforce the laws. It’s too much work, if done effectively it will make them unpopular, and worst of all people might be less fearful and think they don’t need you.

      One thing the antis don’t get is that if there really were confiscation, they would have to search EVERY residence and workplace in the country. I don’t know if it could be done effectively, but it won’t be done. For all the above reasons, and for the fact an arbitrarily enforced law is a good way to instill fear of those who might enforce it.

      1. avatar HP says:

        If you took every police officer, member of law enforcement, and member of the military, you still wouldn’t have a tenth of the personnel necessary to go door-to-door across the country. Not to mention even if you did utilize everyone available, who would be enforcing other laws? Driving drunk? No problem, all the police are doing confiscations, for example. Are they going to draw back every member of the military from overseas because Swalwell or Beto want confiscation? And then what if they still managed to do all this. With an estimated 80 million gun owners in America, imagine if just half a percent decided they weren’t going to cooperate and would resort to violence. Hundreds of thousands of people unwilling to go quietly. It would be a catastrophe with thousands of deaths. No one wants that. At least I hope no one does.

        1. avatar Michael says:

          There are loads of people who want nothing more than the untimely death of every gun owner in the USA, the question is whether or not any of them are actually willing to put their own lives on the line to do the dirty work. I’ve asked as much of a few of the anti-gun people I know, they say they don’t believe people have a fervent enough belief in guns to lay down their lives for the 2nd and I ask if they think the antis are willing to lay down their lives to abolish it.

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Mad Max,

      If the people writing a confiscation law have any savvy at all, they will include an asset forfeiture provision and THAT is where fedzilla will be wildly effective — because all fedzilla would have to do is send a court order via certified mail to a gun owner’s bank, employer, retirement account, and county clerk (to seize the gun owner’s home) and all those entities would promptly and dutifully hand-over all of your savings, checking, retirement, ongoing income, and home to fedzilla.

      With no savings, no checking, no retirement, no ongoing income, and no home, how can you survive? And I guarantee you that no employees at any bank, retirement investment company, or county clerk will refuse a court order.

      And if the government entity writing the confiscation law really hits a home run, they will also include a provision which prohibits banking and employment relationships as well as providing services such as electric, gas, phone, and Internet.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        The only way to tell if firearms need confisating is to search everywhere.

        There are plenty of firearms in the posesssion of citizens that are unknown to the government.

        Let’s keep it that way!

        1. avatar Dan W says:

          They’ll take everything until you prove you’re not one of them evil white supremacists Nazi gun owners.

          If you’re lucky you might get some of it back after begging enough.

          That or our side kills enough people that they can’t take any more.

        2. avatar Mad Max says:

          Well, if they go to that extreme, our side will be killing lots of them.

        3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Mad Max,

          If fedzilla does not already know, I guarantee you that fedzilla can learn in very short order and at almost zero expense who has firearms. They would most likely even know which calibers and platforms a gun-owner has.

          And how would they do that? With a little help from banks that issue credit cards and three or four companies that operate key Internet sites. The companies that operate search engines and video sharing platforms log our IP address (our Internet address which correlates to our home address and who we are), search queries, and links that we click. If those companies are not already sharing that data with fedzilla, they could do so at the drop of a hat. Of course the banks can easily tell fedzilla who used a debit card or credit card to purchase items from firearm distributors, ammunition suppliers, and firearm accessory suppliers.

          Combined, those two data dumps would reveal over 99% of the firearm owners in our nation. The only firearm owners who would not appear on either data sets would be people who never used the Internet and never used a credit card to purchase anything for firearms. It should be obvious that very few firearm owners have never used the Internet and never used a credit card for anything related to firearms.

          This is the cold, hard truth.

        4. avatar Stuck in New Jersey says:

          States that have automatic gun registration with every gun sale (like NJ does with handguns) have no way to “un-register” your guns when you sell them. Most New Jersey gun owners don’t even realize that every time they buy a handgun, the FFL dealer sends a record to the police, and it goes on your permanent police record, and there’s no way to get it removed from your police record.

          This means somebody could have legally sold all their guns, and the police would still have a file on them saying they own umpteen guns. When a gun ban comes along, or someone who doesn’t like you SWATs you anonymously using a “Red flag law”, and you didn’t turn in your banned guns because you no longer have any, then what happens? The police send SWAT to burst down your door, shoot the family pets, tear the house apart looking for guns, terrorize the kids, and find nothing, absolutely no weapons, because you longer have any! You might have sold them all 20 years ago, and who keeps records that long? But they’re still on your permanent police record, so they’ll bust down your door looking for them.

          How do you PROVE you no longer own the guns that you bought 20 years ago? Most NJ gun owners don’t realize that there’s automatic registration at the point of purchase. How do you prove you sold them all, unless you keep all your paperwork for DECADES and never lose your records in a flood, fire, move, or when your wife cleans and throws out your “worthless 20-year-old papers” as has happened to me with other important records? It’s impossible to prove a NEGATIVE, so the cops will just think you buried your guns in the yard somewhere. They’ll probably waste money calling in a K-9 unit to sniff out your yard for buried guns, because New Jersey is a hoplophobic police state.

          (And don’t even try to claim a “tragic boating accident” in NJ, because state law says you have to report all “tragic boating accidents” that have loss of property, even without state gun laws that are so complex they’re like the Manhattan phone book).

      2. avatar Leroy Jenkins says:

        “If the people writing a confiscation law ”

        Who are these people, where is the text of this law, when is it being voted on?

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          LeRoy Jenkins,

          There is no such law in the works as far as I know.

          I was illustrating to everyone how relatively easy it would be for a state government or fedzilla to accomplish their objective without dispatching confiscation squads.

          As we also saw with the New York Safe Act legislative process, we would not know about such legislation anyhow since New York was willing to discuss the Safe Act and vote on it in the whee hours of the morning without any notification to the public.

        2. avatar Stuck in New Jersey says:

          “If the people writing a confiscation law ”

          “Who are these people, where is the text of this law, when is it being voted on?”

          They’re all either in Congress or among the 22 people running for President. You can guess which political party.

      3. avatar Huntmaster says:

        It’s not that easy. Most businesses don’t want to piss off their customers. I imagine that goes double for customers with guns.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          HuntMaster,

          I disagree. It really is that easy.

          Sally or Richard in the Back Office function of a bank will not think twice about processing a court order to confiscate John Q. Public’s savings account. First of all, neither Sally, Richard, their local manager, nor their regional manager are going to refuse to process a court order and risk their jobs and income as well as contempt of court. Second of all, they would not fear retribution from a disgruntled firearm owner. After all, Sally or Richard were just following orders so they did not do anything wrong. And that disgruntled firearm owner would have absolutely no way whatsoever to determine who at his/her bank’s offices (which are probably 700 miles away in another state) processed that court order — and thus have no way of knowing who to “punish”.

          The same dynamic that I described above applies equally to Back Office personnel at any other company, including investment companies handling retirement accounts as well as businesses (such as utilities) that provide services to the subject of a court order.

          If fedzilla or a state government ever decide to go that route, we are in for some very dark times since we would have absolutely no idea specifically who was complicit in government’s heavy hand.

      4. avatar MtnDewey says:

        you forget due process, “they” can not hand over or seize anything without due process or paying you for your property being confiscated. like saying a gun buyback, it isn’t a buyback, “they” never owned them to buy back.

        1. avatar Mad Max says:

          They won’t pay attention to “due process”; that’s why we are headed for a shooting war.

          Any American that doesn’t support the individual rights and liberties enumerated in the Bill of Rights is a traitor and should be treated as such.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          MtnDewey,

          Unfortunately, our courts have endorsed the concept that government satisfies “due process” if a duly elected legislature passes a law, a judge issues a warrant/order based on that law, and police then enforce that warrant/law.

          Thus, in terms of confiscation, if a legislature bans firearms and provides for a court confiscation order and police enforcement of said court confiscation order, the courts consider that “due process”.

          Yes, that is how far we have fallen.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “…if a legislature bans firearms and provides for a court confiscation order and police enforcement of said court confiscation order, the courts consider that “due process”.”

          Correctamundo!

          We have a highly inflated and fantastical image of “due process”. We assess “due process” as that which protects us from being arrested and charged unless we are pretty much guilty from the jump…and both we and the cops know about the guilt. We believe that “due process” means we cannot be rousted for reasons we believe to be stupid, or outrageous.

          “Due process” is in the constitution (including state constitutions) as a defense against capricious arrest and trial by the ruler (at whatever level). That is, in the good olden days of yore, a despot could just have a stomach ache, and declare that this or that person (or persons) should be arrested and all their property taken…just to make the ruler feel good, or ensure that someone under jurisdiction feels worse.

          So yes, so long as “the rules” are followed (whatever they be), you have “due process”. A despot cannot be sued for abuse of power, but abuse of power (abuse of “due process”) is a powerful defense against alleged crimes. Laws that once were “due process” have been overturned throughout our history.

        4. avatar Anymouse says:

          Untrue. They declared bump stocks illegal and demanded that they be destroyed without compensation. While there are court challenges, if they lose, that will become the new model. Semiautos, or whatever, will be banned, and it’ll be a felony to possess them. You’re choice is to destroy it surrender them, or face federal prison and exorbitant fines.

    3. avatar Hank says:

      This is another important factor. All LE agencies across the country are hurting for numbers, exactly because of the left and media attacks on them. No one wants to be a cop in this kind of political climate.

      1. avatar Valley Boy says:

        Simply not true! Nearly all major metro police and sheriffs departments as well as federal LE agency’s ultimately accept around one percent of all people who initially apply. The feds eliminate 70% of applicants based on polygraph alone. LAPD, LASD process over 50,000 applications a year. Law enforcement hopefulls are literally everywhere ranging from 21 years old to early 50’s. Everyone and their uncle wants to be a cop; it’s one of the few ways to afford a home and retirement in a large city without a stem degree.

  8. avatar Jon says:

    The “confiscators” next step will be to replace the lawmen who will not comply with lawmen who will comply. It may take a decade or two or a generation or two but that will be their next push.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      There will be ANTIFA Commissars with extraordinary powers to ensure correct ideological motivation.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        Antifa??

        Ha…ha…ha
        Molon Labe!
        Ha…ha…ha…

  9. avatar zerofoo says:

    Remember the Chris Dorner episode?

    One guy kept LAPD tied up for over a week:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt

    Any significant confiscation efforts would result in another Civil War. The first resulted in almost 700,000 dead Americans. Weapons and tactics are significantly more lethal now.

    None of this matters to gun-grabbers so long as someone else is doing the dirty work.

    1. avatar CC says:

      1) Dorner was a cop himself. He had a vest and knew police procedures, including for confronting/dealing with an active shooter such as himself. He was able to kill because he was targeting unarmed civilians in half of his murders and knew how to evade other cops. For example the first two people he murdered was an ambush killing of the unarmed daughter of a LAPD officer and her unarmed boyfriend.
      2) I doubt many, if any, gun owners are going to emulate that or resist with force at all.

      1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        CC
        No he targeted his former armed police officers. And killed several of them by surprise.

      2. avatar DJ says:

        You might be surprised.

        Why would you allow tyranny to rule. We are close. Democrats want to abolish the Electoral College and are threatening the Supreme Court. Even if you don’t like Trump he’s the duly elected President. There was no coup within the government under Obama.

        If you think the police can confiscate 400-660 million firearms from at least 120 million gun owners you just go for it. Don’t give me the crap about the military.

        https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/welcome.html

      3. avatar Hank says:

        A bunch of piss poor trained Arabs sure made a hell of a problem for the US military over the past few decades. And many of the people resisting will be veterans of those wars.

        1. avatar No One Special says:

          I can tell you from experience that those piss poor trained Arabs only had a fighting chance because of politics of politicians and Generals. It’s hard to fight a war when you have one hand tied behind your back and the other one tied to the opposite ankle. There were times that it seemed like the military was kept as far away from the enemy as possible to let the enemy keep things business as usual. Simple fact of the matter was is if you wanted to go looking for trouble, trouble was sure to be found. On the other hand sometimes trouble found you and command told you to stand down. Trust me it was and is all bullshit.

        2. avatar Hank says:

          Oh I agree with that, but there’s still something to be said about a symmetric warfare, particular lead by veterans of an a symmetric war. The timing of a gun confiscation in the US couldn’t come at a worse timing. The vast majority of combat veterans over the last 20 years lean conservative, own guns, and are quite pro 2A. Yes, there’s the occasional liberal veteran but they’re generally louder then their real numbers. I’d also add that in the event of conflict here, there will also be that hands off, hands tied, stand back, stand down approach that often muddied things up overseas.

    2. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

      “None of this matters to gun-grabbers so long as someone else is doing the dirty work.”

      Thing is, everyone knows who the big name “leaders” of the ban bunch are. If CW2 breaks out, they might be able to hide from scalp hunting short term. In the political solution at the end, they are likely to be found hanging at the end of a rope, if they don’t escape to Europe before the hangman finds them.

      1. avatar SoCalJack says:

        A lot has to happen prior to CW2. If gun confiscation became law, it would be a slow process. The gov moves at the “speed of government”. In the meantime keep prepping, e.g. increase your food and water supplies, account for long term power outages, have your plans in place.

  10. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

    “In NY it’s estimated that most of the gun owners not in compliance with the SAFE Act are cops. In many states the sheriffs are leading the 2A sanctuary city efforts.”

    The last I heard, only 10 percent of the ‘evil assault rifles’ in NY state were estimated to have been registered/disposed of .

    …leaving 90 percent of them un-registered and ‘underground’.

    Does anyone have any hard data confirming or refuting that claim?

    Because he’s living in dream-land if he thinks the majority of the unregistered ARs are held by cops.

    And they won’t be confiscating right out of the gate, they will be happy to play the long game and register them first. Oh, and set up a ‘snitch line’ for Leftists to turn in Deplorables that don’t register…

    1. avatar TommyGNR says:

      I live in NY and no the majority of AR’s are not in the hands of cops. They are in the hands of Joe Public. What we have here is a situation where most of the LE community isn’t enforcing the SAFE ACT and the average gun owner is either modifying their AR or just ignoring the law altogether. The law was passed 6 years ago and to this day I don’t know of a case where a guy was arrested and charged for a AR (modified on unmodified) going to a range, shooting at a range, or coming home from a range. You wont find AR’s for sale at Dicks or Walmart, but every LGS is selling modified ones. There are more than double the number of AR’s in private hands in NY today than there was when the SAFE ACT was passed.

    2. avatar Joatmon says:

      No data but I have relatives in NY state that own AR’s and they regularly come visit me and we go shopping for P mags and ammunition.
      Are they breaking the law? Technically yes but I see it as unconstitutional and a law that was passed illegally.

    3. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      10% sounds……. optimistic even without considering the featureless rifles that have been selling out up my way that are not many parts away from normal.

  11. avatar Dan W says:

    Bluffing works until it gets called.

    Then you better be willing to show that hand and not fold.

    Are the 2020 contenders crazy enough to call? Maybe. Will the 2024 crop be?

    1. avatar Hugh Glass says:

      True, and works both ways.

  12. avatar Jim Wildrick Jr says:

    I believe fully any attempt to confiscate our legally owned firearms would be considered government tyranny subject to starting a civil war.This is what our SECOND AMENDMENT is all about.

    1. avatar raz-0 says:

      Dude.. it’s not going to be about tyranny or overblown political rhetoric.

      if you are going to confiscate them all you will have to do two things:

      1) You will have to go and tear people’s homes apart searching for them.
      2) You will have to search homes that might have them, which means you will be searching significantly more than the 45% of households that are estimated to have guns.

      When you do this, you WILL have your jack booted thugs interfacing with the same communities over and over and over. Given the nature of the work, you WILL have members of that group who the communities are going to hate. Additionally, you WILL have people get killed by those thugs. Even if they don’t shoot first, people in the community will be pissed and want blood.

      At some point, someone will get payback. It won’t be about what party you like or what some document says. Someone murdered you and yours while being an enemy of you and yours and you will want blood. And at the end of the day those you want dead will be an easy target as they go about their daily task of kicking down doors.

      And when that happens, the thugs quit, investigate and retaliate, or just straight up murder someone as an example. Things will escalate, but the one thing not getting done or done much slower will be searching for guns, and the motivation for hiding them and killing the shit out of the thugs doing the searching escalates.

      You have to go for full on despotism, or you keep it at half-assed security theater that doesn’t really do anything.

      1. avatar CC says:

        Even before red flag laws huge numbers of people got easily banged in divorce, separation, custody actions. NO ONE gets married thinking they are going to be in divorce but half of people do. Acrimony or standard legal tactics in divorce means your partner knowing anything about anything that might be illegal — will result in an affidavit and warrant.

        There is also risk during even basic traffic stops on your way to the range, or if you are simply carrying and have 12 rounds mags in a 10 round state.

        Look at it this way, when we say drug laws don’t fully work, that doesn’t change the fact that millions of Americans were imprisoned for drug violations, including personal use amounts.

        The other-side doesn’t care about the tiny proportion who would resist with force. In fact they are useful to the other side.

        These laws need to be fought with standard and legal tactics — where we have been successful many times — marshaling political influence of gun owners.

  13. avatar million says:

    the general premise is probably not correct b/c outright confiscation never happened in Germany. it was incremental starting with the Weimar Republic’s 1928 gun registration ostensibly to disarm political undesirables like communists and Nazis who were at open war in the streets. later it was expanded to disarming Catholics and unionists and Jews.

    so not only is the writer wrong but he also couldn’t help from coloring his comments with his extreme case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

  14. avatar kap says:

    Another Civil war (not so civil) is around the corner! it will get ugly quick! it will be the people against Business that say their services can control our freedoms also with the Democratic Party and their Communist Manifesto’s!

  15. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

    “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness… it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security”

    Right there is my ‘permission’…

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Correct, Geoff. Note the words the Founders used:

      “…it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government…”

      We are told that not only is it our right to throw off tyrannical government, it is our DUTY. And that word “duty” held much more weight and meaning at the time it was written than it holds today, so it was very important.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        I Haz a Question,

        And that word “duty” held much more weight and meaning at the time it was written than it holds today …

        How right your are. I wish you were wrong but you are right.

        Far too many people today prioritize fun and comfort over duty.

        However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. This wave of young-ish people who primarily only care about fun/comfort are not having children by-and-large. The rest of us who do care about duty ARE having children. If we raise our children correctly and responsibly, our children will soon outnumber and outvote this pool of fun/comfort voters and many of the problems that are looming before us will (hopefully) go away.

        1. avatar Dan W says:

          We are also going to have to outbreed the tens of millions of imported democrat voters.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Dan W.,

          Yep, that is a significant problem.

          And now we all know why Democrats are so Hell-bent on getting as many illegal aliens into our nation as possible: without illegal aliens Democrats will begin to lose most future elections.

  16. avatar James Campbell says:

    Am I the only on offended by the author bringing “class” into the 2nd A debate.
    Wake up people, this was written by some far left hack to equate Hollywoods “blacklisting” and “Trump and his followers are Nazis” speak with the actions of those fighting to preserve God given natural rights. To clear it up for the author, Hollywood is full of horrible monsters who want to see McCarthyism come back, and are ok with Chicago type gang killings, while pro 2nd A people are preserving the Republic, and ALL the rights instilled in the founding docs/federalist papers. GAFC moron!

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      Holy historical confusion. You evidently are the product of a gov’t school in a progtard state.

      Joe McCarty was pointing out in the 1950s that the Fed Gov’t (and certainly several state gov’t) as infested with Communists and their friends (thanks to Wilson and Roosevelt). Same for Hollywierd. Hollywood, progs, and the MSM have vilified McCarty for since. But he was CORRECT. ANY douts were laid to rest when the archives of the KGB were opened in after the fall of the USSR. McCartyism should be a badge of honor. The commie ideology was, and is, the enemy of the United States. Today it’s just primarily centered in chicomland rather than in Moscow.

      McCarty was the target of hatred by the MSM of his day as Pres Trump is now. Pres Trump SHOULD awared McCarty the Presidential Medal of Freedom. It would make the prog/MSM/Hollywierd heads explode. All good.

      https://www.offthegridnews.com/misc/mccarthyism-reconsidered-the-real-truth-about-joseph-mccarthy-and-his-tireless-campaign-against-international-communism/

      1. avatar Gordon in MO says:

        Senator Mccarthy was right.

        1. avatar Southern Cross says:

          But 20 years too early. The real ideological infiltration came from the 1960s and 70s with the college campuses and then spread through the media organizations. Eventually the infiltration even reached into government service and political parties.

          If Scientology was able to infiltrate a number of government agencies to destroy files about them, a group of left-leaning progressives would have no trouble at all.

      2. avatar MtnDewey says:

        McCarthyism

      3. avatar James Campbell says:

        I’m pointing out the statement in the article where it’s presented that the lower class has to deal with laws and the middle class will go along uninhimberd strictly due to their social standing. This is how the left positions a “wedge” issue to get their lower class voters to go along with restrictive laws. It’s a “we’re doing this against the class over you po’ folk, so vote for us.

  17. avatar cc says:

    I think this type of claim by Stokes and repeated here at TTAG is unproductive. It distracts from the profound need for us to work every legal avenue. That is hard work but we have been successful in it when the effort is applied

    The last I heard, only 10 percent of the ‘evil assault rifles’ in NY state were estimated to have been registered/disposed of .
    …leaving 90 percent of them un-registered and ‘underground’.

    This statement is not logical and is similar to the statement that only a few bump stocks were turned in and therefore the false assertion that the remainder are still held.

    In fact just as with bump stocks, you do not need to “turn in” the items made contraband in NY, just transfer them out of state to yourself or another person/family member, or destroy them.

    so if you had a 15 round mag for your handgun at the time of NYSafe , you could a) give it to a pal as a gift in Pennsylvania, new hampshire, etc; b) give it to them to hold for you, c) sell it on ebay d) destroy it.

    with bump stocks, ask yourself this: who would bother to drive to a BATFE field office and spend maybe an hour there, including ending with a paper trail filed with the federal government, that shows you are a bump stock “type” — when 2 minutes with a a hacksaw and a vice leaves one 100% legally protected, and also doesn’t result in some kind of paper trail??

    I am sure there are people not complying, but the claims here and elsewhere that the number doing so is equal to the number of estimated newly contraband articles in a state, minus those registered or turned in, is false. Moreover the number of items does not equal the number of people, since a single person could own more than one item that was newly prohibited or regulated.

    This “civil war” talk, along with broad non-compliance talk is nonsense. And it is also bad for us in that it distracts from the legal avenues of resistance, especially the synergy of grass roots and professional lobbying and policy advocacy.

    We have been at times astoundingly powerful with the latter. and I for one am sick of individuals who simply blurt “shall not be infringed” or “then civil war” when both are bullshit, and when as part of a group, or as an individual, rolling up your sleeves and say working on a campaign in a purple or competitive US senate, US House, state level senate or state level house campaign is where we can make the needed difference.

    The evidence already is that the vast majority of US gun owners do fully comply with gun laws and will comply with any adopted. They are not going to get involved in a civil war nor are they going to risk lose all firearms rights or getting a massive fine and going to prison, so they can have two 15 round mags instead of three ten rounders.

    1. avatar Jonathan Long says:

      I could not disagree more, for my ENTIRE life (all 34 years of it) all the government has done is increase restrictions on guns. If you think they are going to let gun owners just keep guns you are either blind, dumb, or too trusting. Over the years the Democrats have gotten more and more bold to where they are now actively saying they are going to forcibly remove your lawfully purchased firearms with or without compensation to you, that is called theft. Yes for now we have Republicans to hold the line but in case you are unable to see we are losing the culture war on the right and very soon will not have enough power to resist their demands. If you think a republican majority will be able to resist another onslaught I have some bad news for you, they wont. We couldn’t even get them to pass pro gun legislation when they had all three chambers of power. Your way of thinking may have worked for the last 50 years but its pretty obvious that the liberals are out for blood this time and they are not afraid to say it. If we as gun owners are not brave enough to stand up and say “no we wont do what you say” then you may as well turn in your guns now. It should be PAINFULLY clear from the media and politicians what they are planning to do.

      1. avatar CC says:

        If you think they are going to let gun owners just keep guns you are either blind, dumb, or too trusting.

        Strawman much? I did not say any such thing. I am talking about the fact that most gun owners comply and that just blurting out that you wont is not enough.

      2. avatar Dave says:

        There have been numerous “wins” for the 2A in the last 34 years — “shall issue” and permitless carry almost nationwide being the best example. And the removal of the CLEO permission for NFA items is also huge.

        I live in a solidly purple state, and it wasn’t that long ago that I could neither carry concealed nor own NFA items (Sheriff wouldn’t sign for anyone).

        I agree that things in general are getting worse, but there have been bright spots.

        Oh, and did I mention Heller?

    2. avatar George Washington says:

      Please…… I’m begging your fudd ass….. PLEASE STFU!!!!

  18. avatar David Thompson says:

    The only word you need to know about gun confiscation:

    Waco.

    1. avatar CC says:

      Oh, right because the average gun owner is a homicidal madman like David Koresh?

      And what was that: about 0.0001% of gun confiscation attempts, the huge majority of which are successful?

      Fighting gun control in state legislatures and Congress works. harboring or proffering the idea that gun owners would act like David Koresh, and relying on that as a strategy does not.

      1. avatar Cloudbuster says:

        Homicidal? David Koresh never killed a single person.

        1. avatar enuf says:

          Koresh preached he end would come in a military assault upon his people. He armed up for that and indoctrinated his followers to be ready.

          The error of the ATF was typical for them. Even worse than typical, they handed what the madman predicted on a silver platter, in broad daylight. Getting their own agents killed. Not because of any conspiracy theory but because the ATF leadership has long displayed incompetence, arrogance and protected those who fail in bloody and spectacular fashion.

          From the 1971 raid on Ken Ballew’s home forward, the ATF has the bloodiest record of any Federal law enforcement agency. That alone is reason enough to disband the ATF, starting with it’s SWAT team.

      2. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        You forgot about Ruby Ridge. Randy Weaver never killed anybody while in the US Army or as a civilian. His son shot and killed a home invader who shot his dog. Say John Wick???

        1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          And the FBI sniper who killed Mrs. Weaver while she was unarmed and holding her infant son on their front porch was acquitted of any wrongdoing.

        2. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          That was Lon Horiuchi, who also was at Waco.

        3. avatar neiowa says:

          Lon Horiuchi never went before a jury for the murder of Vicki Weaver. ANOTHER Clinton scandal/coverup.

          The Ninth Circuit granted Boundary County’s motion to dismiss the case against Horiuchi on September 14, 2001. (the nation was busy that week).

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

        4. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          @neiowa But the Ninth met en banc and reversed that, saying Horiuchi should stand trial. Unfortunately there was a new county prosecutor by then who backed down. The original county prosecutor, as well as the special prosecutor, wanted Horiuchi’s head on a pike.

        5. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          cont… If the new county prosecutor would have wanted to prosecute, it would have happened. 9/11 had nothing to do with it. The prosecutor told the ninth that he didn’t think he could win. It had “been too long.”

      3. avatar jwtaylor says:

        You need to go back and read your recent history. Koresh didn’t kill anybody, didn’t threaten to murder anybody, and actually called the police and cooperated with them to destroy a meth lab that his former cult leader ran. He also worked with police to uncover a plot to exhume a corpse from some weird ritual. The ATF cited “child abuse” as the reason to enter his home, when even at the time local law enforcement and the FBI categorically denied that any abuse had occurred, and after a lengthy investigation. The FBI went so far as to make a formal statement denying there was any evidence of child abuse, as they wanted to distance themselves from that ATF fiasco as fast as possible.
        He may have, but this was never proven, married an underage girl, but even then, there was no evidence that he actually had sex with her, and no charges were levied against him for that.
        The guy definitely had some issues, but he wasn’t homicidal. BTW, even a brief Wikipedia search will confirm all that.

      4. avatar Dan W says:

        We all see that you are a good boy. I’m sure you’ll be eaten last.

  19. avatar NORDNEG says:

    I’ll say it again, pro 2-A people, keep your powder dry,,,
    It’s going to happen again ( C W 2 ),
    Then we’ll see who’s got balls & who don’t…

    1. avatar CC says:

      The people saying that they are going to fight “C W 2” are the ones without balls. Phone banking a candidate in a purple district is what takes effort and balls. Fantasizing that one is Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols or David Koresh is absurd and distracts from the needed work — the hard work of winning campaigns that will make a difference. The BTAFE and FBI would not be worried about people physically resisting. 99.9% of that is bullshit, and the handful that did would just make the case for bigger budgets for those agencies.

      1. avatar Joatmon says:

        I have and will continue to email my representatives about gun control. Hell, when Obama was president, I emailed him too.
        There was an article here on TTAG about a 17 year old form Colorado that got kicked out of school for going to a shooting range with his mother. I emailed the school board there and I don’t live in Colorado.
        No threats, just an email stating what they did was wrong and that the person has rights that didn’t need to get trounced.
        What I am is not naive enough to not think that possibly sometime in the future, my rights as a gun owner will be taken away. What then? Emails and phone calls won’t do anything. If and when that happens, then there will be resistance.

        1. avatar CC says:

          Well if you are contacting your two senators, your member of congress, your state senator and your state assembly/house person and your governor you are doing the right thing.

          Most people who not know who their state legislator elected members are.

          there are 101 legislatures bodies in the US (99 state bodies, plus two US Congress bodies, house and senate) and about 7,000 elected legislaors in those 101 bodies.

          In your state there are probably a bunch that are contested/purple ie close races upcoming. More than just writing you might want to find the 2A supporting candidates in contested state districts in your state and volunteer or otherwise contribute — and encourage your friends to do so.

          Nothing wrogn with writing to Obama a few years ago, but that isnt going to have the same effect as putting in some hours or dollars in support of say a state house election.

          I was in Virginia last month at a large IWLA range shooting and went to lunch with some of the guys who had been on the shooting line there. Virginia is a hair away from its state senate and assembly going Blue, and then game over for gun rights there. I was amazed that out of ten guys, only one of them knew who their Virginia general Assembly senator or delegate was. That is a state on the fulcrum of the current state level gun control Bloomberg is working on. Bloomberg spends more per capita in Virginia than any state — and these guys did not know who their reps were. They also did not know the close races coming up.

          In your state house, even if your own state district is deep red or deep blue, you can still work on other campaigns in your state that are purple.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          CC,

          The only worthwhile activity (in practice) that you stated was to work on the campaign of a politician whose election could go either way even if that politician is not running in your district. That could produce real dividends.

          The problem, as I see it, is that politicians pursue an agenda (which they may or may not set themselves) and my phone calls, e-mails, and letters have ZERO impact/effect, based on years of my contacts without any politician ever changing their policies to match my requests.

          As a result, I do not believe that politicians care about the requests of the electorate and almost all politics (policy statements and passed laws) are theater to make the electorate think their views matter. In other words politicians give us the appearance of having a voice while actually doing whatever they want for their own purposes.

      2. avatar jwtaylor says:

        You continue to make the false premise that one can not be steadfast in use of the 1st Amendment and the 2nd at the same time.
        One can, and should, make every available effort to secure the free exercise of our rights through all legal means possible.
        But calling your representatives, donating, organizing and voting does not take away from your ability to start shooting in the defense of those same rights.
        By all means work for change, but let those same politicians know “I will not comply.” Be ready and willing to back that up with force.
        This is the example the founders of our nation provided for us, and it works the same today as it did back then.

      3. avatar MtnDewey says:

        Contacting your representatives is pointless and has no effect on their decisions. For those of you on here claiming this to be a helpful avenue; you are sorely mistaken and naïve. They will do what they are told to do, they will do what the lobbyists pay them to do. We have no voice, I have emailed, called, written letter to my representatives, governor and the POTUS. It is in vain, and will produce no fruit.
        There is a lot of passion on this forum, and “they” will probably come after us first…hahahha. But on a serious note, we are doing the right thing by at least discussing it, but this page and many others are monitored and even have members who are plants. I suggest, educate yourself in the laws, at least the ones including due process, know them very well. Learn to hush if confronted by LEO, lawyer up and get ready to lose everything to become a case that will win, but iti will take time.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “…but this page and many others are monitored and even have members who are plants.”

          You got that right. I can personally attest to being an Eggplant. Purple, shiny and just as idiotic.

    2. avatar enuf says:

      “keep your powder dry”

      Um, no, not going to do that. Don’t use blackpowder and don’t live in a flood zone. I use modern guns and store them indoors, with a roof above and walls around.

      This is not the 18th Century, or any other than what it is.

      What we need is to view all forms of violence as human behavioral problems. Doing that works. It is in fact exactly how the US Secret Service protects the President. The guns are the final stand option when their best tools fail, and their best tools rarely fail.

      Early Detection
      Threat Assessment
      Planned Intervention

      It works!

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        Wait, let me get this straight. A government agency that is actually and truly required to be effective actually is effective? Huh. It’s almost like people can actually be effective when they really and truly need to be effective. Even government employees. Imagine that.

      2. avatar George Washington says:

        Keep your powder dry…… Moron

  20. avatar Mercutio says:

    Dripping water will wear away the strongest rock… and the grabbers are nothing if not drips.

    1. avatar MMurcek says:

      Over a time frame that the do something Now crowd will never be satisfied with

      1. avatar Mercutio says:

        Hey, MM… fancy bumpig into you here.

  21. avatar MMurcek says:

    You don’t push me I don’t have to push back. Just sayin’…

  22. avatar daveinwyo says:

    My 2 cents;
    One of the best militarizes in the world, at the time, was reluctant to attempt an invasion of the US.
    Japan, at the time of WWII, knew invading was not a good idea.
    And the lefty’s think they can win? With what, antifa and the soy bois?
    LMAO!!

    1. avatar Joatmon says:

      It won’t be Antifa or soy boys, it’ll be our government. It won’t be direct action against people either. At least not until the end.
      Democrats want to tax you, tax ammunition, tax you for a special license to be a gun owner and so on.
      Background check for ammunition. Pressure banks to not do business with gun companies.
      It will be small pieces at a time until they have taken everything.
      That’s my thinking.

      1. avatar Rocketman says:

        That’s very close to the truth. What did the British do during American Revolutionary War? King George III hired German mercenaries (the Hessians) to come to America and do the dirty work that some British troops wouldn’t do because many of the felt that fighting against their own countrymen was just plain wrong.

  23. avatar enuf says:

    Sad to say I believe gun rights will eventually be lost. Probably not in my remaining years, possibly not in my kid’s time. But I’d be surprised if they last another century. Public opinion will continue to be moved that way by more killings, by more failure of any side to do anything preventative.

    Never believed it would happen in one big, bold, massive move. A national forced buyback or confiscation would result in considerable violence. If not a Civil War, it would be awfully close to it. No, it will not happen that way. Instead it will be a slow erosion of the Second Amendment rights we now enjoy, even if we should further improve them at first.

    The way we will lose is by continuing to fight this political battle on the terms the anti-gun side has chosen. They make all this violence about guns, because they are desperate for a simplistic solution and grab hold of the thing that is obvious to them.

    But our side makes it all about guns too. We say we do not, but our leadership’s efforts to focus the argument upon human behavior are laughably weak. Where is the big push from our side on mental health laws and spending? Where is the effort to promote the early detection and intervention of mass shooters before they attack?

    American Rifleman has its “The Armed Citizen” column about defensive gun uses. That’s fine, that’s good, but it’s too little. We need a column of prevented attacks. Such as a local school district near me that announced a teenager arrested for planning a shooting at his school. He was depressed and angry over grades, maybe some other troubles. Somebody said something, an assessment team trained to examine threats found it credible and action was taken.

    There are many such incidents around the country that demonstrate how Early Detection, Threat Assessment and Planned Intervention stop attacks while still in the planning stage. It is not very dramatic, but it is far more successful than waiting for the bullets to be zipping about.

    Those techniques need to be in every school in the country. Our side should be pushing very loudly for it.

    1. avatar Joatmon says:

      A voice of reason.
      Problem is, I don’t think either Democrats or Republicans think that way.
      I’m sure it’s a talking point and maybe has even been suggested but that’s about it.
      What happens is that there’s a shooting. The media jumps all over it if it fits their narrative. Democrats then start pointing their fingers at the gun, not the person nor their mental state. It may come up but to them it’s more important if the shooter was a Trump supporter, right wing or whatever.
      Republicans then counter but not with a mental health aspect but to defend themselves because their side is being attacked.
      All the left wants is gun bans and confiscation. “Weapons of war” off our streets as I’ve heard.
      It’s hard to gain any footing when you’re being attacked.
      If it got brought to attention, the other side would say you’re ignoring the so called “gun violence” epidemic as the left likes to say. Not mental health problem, gun problem.
      And it goes on and on. No side listens and nothing gets accomplished.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        If people didn’t put themselves on teams it would be hard for a team to attack you because you are an individual not a Republican or a Democrat. They will have to focus on you personally or your argument.

        Once you’re on a team it’s about winning as a team by any means necessary. Ideas don’t become important, the group does. That kind of behavior can cause a revolution that makes things worse regardless of who wins.

      2. avatar Southern Cross says:

        The gun used is mostly irrelevant. If there is a will to commit violence the rest is down to method. It has been proven that without guns other no less effective methods will be used. Heavy vehicles, IEDs, poisons, and arson have all been used. Didn’t a wannabe jihadi breach security of the Canadian federal parliament with a lever action rifle? If there is a will there is a way.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          “Once you’re on a team it’s about winning as a team by any means necessary. Ideas don’t become important, the group does. That kind of behavior can cause a revolution that makes things worse regardless of who wins.”

          Team Continental Army wants to have a word with me.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Minority Report criminal justice isn’t proactive problem solving just like putting armed people in schools isn’t.

      If you want to be genuinely proactive, you create a society that doesn’t raise mass murderers. Calling for more government powers and thought crime laws doesn’t change society. To change society you must change the culture. Otherwise, you will never fix the problem, you will simply be putting a lot of young white boys in prison to join the young black boys while all the east Asian kids enjoy their freedom.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        “If you want to be genuinely proactive, you create a society that doesn’t raise mass murderers.”

        I almost had a good point and then I ruined it with this….

        “To change society you must change the culture.”

        For the past ten thousand years it has been changes in material culture, or technology, that have driven changes in non-material culture. Trying to play social engineer with good ideas to “improve” people is what brought us Joseph S., Adolf H., Benito M., Pol P., and Mao.

  24. avatar former water walker says:

    Never happen?!????? See: New Orleans after Katrina. Too bad the author is an idiot…”we just followed orders”😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      I particularly remember the story told by the man who was out on the water on his boat, well away from shore, when the authorities (I don’t recall if it was Coast Guard or local Sheriff Dept) approached him on their own boat with guns drawn. As three men aimed their ARs at him, the fourth declared that they were coming aboard to search for guns. And sure enough, they took them even though he had done nothing wrong. It took the man two full years of court battles to get his guns back.

      Going back even further to the 1992 L.A. Rodney King riots, LEOs were concerned that the mayhem would spread out to the nicer neighborhoods such as Beverly Hills and result in homeowners using their guns to defend themselves against break-ins, so armed police went to homes (via 4473 info) and confiscated law abiding owners’ guns. A news station video showing this was once-upon-a-time available on YouTube, but it’s been taken down and no longer viewable. But I saw it, and it wasn’t pretty.

      If the SHTF, there will be instances where LE in some areas will simply take advantage of the situation and do whatever they want. Just another reason why I smack my forehead in exasperation at the Fudds who willingly register their guns.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        It’s the law and 2A supporters are law abiding people. If they don’t follow the law they can’t have guns because they will be felons. We can’t let felons have guns. We need to raid their homes and take them to prison for life. Public safety is our number one priority. We must save America from criminals with guns. We will use red flag laws if we can’t get a warrant. National security should not be ignored, every tool and resource should be deployed.

        1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          You forgot to end your rant with the [/sarc] signoff.

        2. avatar Chief Censor says:

          I was just paraphrasing Adolf H. Who was Sarc?

  25. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    As always the rural areas of the US will keep their guns. Because they KNOW JUST WHERE the sheriff and small town cops sleep at night. That’s not a threat. It’s just a fact. And it’s also a fact that big city residence have no idea where the cops live.

    Rural law enforcement is in general more respectful of civil rights. No law enforcement agency is perfect. Or perhaps it’s just too far away for the deputies to “F” with you???

    You can always dry fire practice behind closed doors. And you should be already doing so.

    Dry Fire Practice
    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/effective-dry-fire-practice/

  26. avatar 2aguy says:

    Sorry, they don’t have to confiscate guns door to door, they just have to make them illegal go own. Then, whenever you have an interaction with the police….your name will be on the non-compliance list for handing over your guns….( which is why they want gun registration, which they think they can get by first getting Universal Background checks) and that noisy party complaint…turns out when the cops show up to take your complaint, they run your name, see you didn’t turn in your rifle, and you are now arrested, facing felony gun possession. So you do 40mph in a 30mph zone…..you get pulled over expecting a ticket…instead, you are placed under arrest for felony gun possession because your name was on the list….that is how they plan on doing it……

  27. avatar 24and7 says:

    If they ever tried to confiscate Firearms you wouldn’t have a civil war.. We would have something far worse… “Asymmetrical Warfare”.. We wouldn’t have many police officers because most would walk off the job.. The ones that stayed on would become extinct quickly..Out of 300 million gun owners, you don’t think some would forcefully resist? The military couldn’t even handle it either because most would go AWOL and alot would resist… It violates the oath that they took to uphold the Constitution (and its Bill of Rights).. Try telling some of these people to go out and kill their friends, Neighbors and family….The ones that would do it, will hopefully be killed as traitors..There would be no clearly defined enemy.. You would have Vietnam and Afghanistan on steroids on a minute-by-minute basis.. The UN could not do it either.. The UN cannot make a sandwich correctly.. Besides any foreign invasion of this soil, would meet severe and brutal resistance and sabotage…So no matter what they say it won’t happen…OUR THEY CAN TRY AND FAIL..

  28. avatar Chief Censor says:

    Gun owners forget they are in love with men and women in uniform, law enforcement already enforces unconstitutional laws, police chiefs are not elected, the average cop has the mentality of their life is more important than civilians having guns, cops believe they are not civilians, militarized police forces are only increasing, police hire dumb people who follow orders and don’t care to know the constitution, the younger generations don’t want and don’t own guns to the same degree as past generations, about 70% of young women are leftists, single mothers are extremely common and most of them are anti 2nd Amendment, leftists move to red states to turn them blue by voting in candidates that will confiscate guns, the left is out pacing the right significantly, former military are being disarmed by police with red flag laws by claiming they are mentally unwell and dangerous…

    Don’t forget that politicians have armored SUVs, an armed protection guard, sometimes they wear body armor and guns, they built underground bunkers they can live in with their entire family for decades, they have weaponized drones they can control from anywhere, they developed weapons of mass death that doesn’t leave long lasting radiation of the land and won’t affect them, they have endless money to hire private contractors to do things the military won’t or can’t, they have planes always in the air they can use to give out orders without needing the local grid, they have a spy/surveillance network, they have friends from other countries that will be fine with destroying America, they have control of the internet and financial systems…

    They already prepared for another civil war, they’re ready to go. All they need now is to build a wall between Mexico and America to stop armaments and fighters (and their families) from entering or leaving America and brainwash more military and police to follow orders for the sake of safety. They’ve already turned the majority of Americans against human rights for safety instead and made them dependent on government instead of being independent individuals or family units.

    All the anti gun people are pushing for gun registration and gun confiscation via “universal background checks” and “red flag laws.” That’s all they need for a soft coup. Dummies won’t know what hit them even after law enforcement are done with their raid.

    1. avatar 24and7 says:

      The government and law enforcement know they will be crushed in the event of asymmetrical Warfare.. our military has not even been able to defeat anything resembling that yet… multiple tap outs in Vietnam and soon-to-be Afghanistan proved it.. The United States has very tough time beating a determined enemy.. especially the enemy they can’t win the hearts and minds of…I’m not disrespecting the military I’m just stating fact…they are not prepared for anything… they have had multiple threat assessments that proved that martial law is unsustainable, even by a foreign occupying Force .. the main reason was our individual Marksmanship.. no country on this planet is better trained in individual Firearms used in America.. not even Israel..

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        That’s why: police are being equipped with armored vehicles with gun ports, drones can drop bombs, planes have energy weapons, directed radiation weapons exist that can cook you from afar, weather control techniques were developed, chemical/biological weapons were created where they personally have protections for, etc. Eventually they will have armed robots that can replace humans for raiding/clearing buildings.

        There is a young kid that made a video on Youtube about a second civil war, which Youtube “promoted” so it can get a lot of views unlike other videos. This young guy is very ignorant to the reality we now live in. For instance, we need food and water to fight and survive, but the government can deny us rainfall, which is the modern version of scorched earth tactics.

        How do you fight a civil war when one side can deny you water for growing food and other things? You have to do what the native Americans did: raid the enemies’ people and military facilities. You will spend more time trying to get supplies to survive than you do fighting. Every time you go out for a raid you will take heavy casualties just like the native Americans. Raiding will be considered criminal by the acting government and the people with the resources you seek to take. You will be looked at as more of a bandit than a soldier, especially if you do not have any official uniform and rank that is required.

        You think foreign countries will send you aid for your fight to save America? I am thinking they will help destroy your government for their personal benefit like the French did during the first civil war.

        The average American wants no part in gun play, they don’t want anyone fighting, they don’t even want to own a gun for their own protection. They rather have government security and safety over liberty and self preservation. Like other wars, the people choose the strong side for their survival. The strong side today is the government that wants to disarm you and oppress you. That’s why you constantly hear the public saying you can’t fight and win against the U.S. government anymore, that you should just give up peacefully if you know what’s best for the American people, yourself and your children.

        If you are to have any chance with modern warfare in a country like the United States, you will have to become a “terrorist” and create clandestine cells that can spontaneously assassinate pivotal targets and avoid fruitless/general combat with security forces. Then have non combatant members who will run for the newly opened position in society.

        1. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

          “The average American wants no part in gun play, they don’t want anyone fighting, they don’t even want to own a gun for their own protection. They rather have government security and safety over liberty and self preservation.”

          You know *nothing* about the ‘average American’ if you seriously believe that line of shit someone sold you, son.

          In your little Leftist ‘bubble’, perhaps, the vast majority see it for what it really is… 🙂

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “You know *nothing* about the ‘average American’ if you seriously believe that line of shit someone sold you, son…”

          “Average” has real meaning: half are above the demarcation, and half above. That means the average is a single, small entity crammed between highs and lows. In essence, “average American” does not describe/depict a huge swath of population (as in “average” meaning most, or even impressive.

          We probably need a better term to illustrate our hope that we have the numbers in our favor.

        3. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

          “You will spend more time trying to get supplies to survive than you do fighting. Every time you go out for a raid you will take heavy casualties just like the native Americans.”

          I *really* hate to break the bad news to you, but the military votes over 80 percent for deplorables. Don’t plan on them opening fire on their families and friends.

          As for who is actually going to starve, it’s deplorables that work in the food factories, and deplorables again that drive the tractor-trailers to fill suburban supermarkets full of groceries. Those trucks won’t be entering the cities. The countryside will be full of food that no longer gets delivered to the cities where you live. It’s gonna be really dark and cold in those cities when the electricity gets cut as well. And when they come pouring out of those cities looking for a meal, they won’t exactly be welcome in flyover country, son… 🙂

        4. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @Geoff

          Are you completely unaware of universities efforts to control the weather? They can mess with the rain now. They have been working on this for many years. I have read a patent where they explain how it’s done. They do it in the middle east to make it rain and farmers in America also use the method.

          With this weather manipulation technique you could cause the rain to fall in particular locations so it doesn’t fall elsewhere. When I was in middle America I witnessed their experiments.

          They also claim it can help with global warming but it appears to make things hotter if it doesn’t rain.

          I have been seeing stories of leftists buying farms to get into organic farming and other leftists farming in the city. Northern California seems like a good place for farming. I am sure a lot of leftists would love to start up free range ranches and organic farms to get away from the corporate and factory farming of middle America. They don’t even like eating much or any meat. Aren’t there a lot of food factories in Oregon or Washington and don’t the leftists own them?

          Aren’t farmers in America getting closer to bankruptcy because of Trump’s tariffs? If they can’t survive a few years of tariffs, how can they survive with the major populations centers not doing business with them and not allowing use of their ports? And what about the loans they give farmers?

          Don’t leftists like to get off the grid with solar energy and move away from oil with electric cars? Isn’t there a nuclear power plant in California? Isn’t coal country disappearing? Don’t major cities have a lot of public transport to save energy and fuel?

          Maybe 40 years ago your prediction would be more realistic, now I think it’s just optimistic. Leftists are not stupid, they are very well educated. They are smart enough to invent many of the things you use. I am sure they can figure out how to farm. They do grow a lot of “grass.”

        5. avatar Chief Censor says:

          ” the government can deny us rainfall”

          Do the surviving members of Credence Clearwater Revival know about this?

      2. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Yah well politicians also have Lazer Cats and Photon Torpedoes and Superpowers. How is that for asymmetrical warfare?

  29. avatar Dan W says:

    The question you have to ask is not, what will I do if they come for me?

    The question you have to ask is: I am willing to go after them before it’s me they come for?

    Offense is where wars are won.

    1. avatar No One Special says:

      Putting them on the defensive doesn’t work in this day and age. That would make those involved terrorists. Unfortunately we as gun owners would have to wait until more than a few occurrences of confiscation happened for no other reason than for the sake of confiscation before we could justify a reaction.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        You first have to get the people on your side or at least get them to understand what is going on. If you can’t do that, no matter the situation, you will always be a terrorist. Unfortunately, NRA members and gun owners are not doing that at all. So, they will lose with time and no one will hear their screams.

        The Black Panthers tried very hard to educate the common person and to bring all people together for their cause, which they made appear righteous. This split the opinion of white America, some thought they were simply racist terrorists and others thought they were fighting for non whites’ liberty. Even today some people think of them positively even after all the violence.

        If you can’t write the narrative before something happens they win. You know for a fact they will write one afterwards. The founders of the United States spent a lot of time writing and speaking their propaganda to the people prior to carrying out their plans to overthrow the government and kill oppressive people. Whereas today the so called liberty fighters are focusing all their efforts to attack Democrats…

        First comes the 1st Amendment, second comes the 2nd Amendment. Gun owners are almost wholly abandoning the 1st so they have to use the 2nd as their main course of real resistance. That’s a losing strategy: wait until you are surrounded by the enemy then…

        1. avatar 24and7 says:

          The only good black panther is a dead black panther..nuff said..

        2. avatar No One Special says:

          Simply put I can talk until I’m blue in the face to antigun idiots about how it’s not the tools fault but what’s in the mind and heart of the person wielding the tool. They don’t care. All they care about is they are scared, they don’t have the intestinal fortitude or balls to protect themselves, and they are dead set that big government is the answer to all of their problems. “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin

        3. avatar Chief Censor says:

          “Unfortunately, NRA members and gun owners ………. will lose with time and no one will hear their screams.”

          I saw this very thing happen in a documentary about space travel where the aliens invaded a space ship.

      2. avatar Dan W says:

        You’ll be a terrorist no matter what you do, if you lose. History is always written by the winners.

        The founders would be considered terrorists now if they had lost.

      3. avatar Chief Censor says:

        The 1st Amendment isn’t about talking to the enemy in polite conversation, it’s about using non homicidal means to educate and infuriate the people against the government that is aiding the enemy in removing liberty. That can be through videos, writings, protests, rallies, speeches, lectures, etc.

        The statists are masters at using the 1st Amendment to overthrow a people from within without having to fire any shots. Then they pass red flag laws and hate speech laws to stop their opponents speech and to disarm them at the same time, even send them to mental institutions and/or prison. They are very successful at shutting down planned events and speeches that were setup to educate the people and rally them.

        A small group can change the world, a small group does run the world. All they need to do is mentally push the people in the direction of their choice hard enough the individual goes with the flow. If any of them get out of line they will be attacked viciously to make an example out of them and to stop them from possibly taking the herd in the undesired direction.

        We should not be attempting to change the minds of the enemy through negotiations. We should be focusing on the herd before the statist social engineers come to corral them again. Destroy the mental blockades and release the herd with the knowledge to prevent their capture again. Freeing their minds will make it very difficult to capture their bodies.

        Do you truly believe that majority of Americans can’t have their minds changed and you have to kill them with your gun to fix everything?

        1. avatar No One Special says:

          I truly believe that there’s no talking to deranged people with little to no common sense. I truly believe that deranged talk (internet, video, newspapers, magazine, pick your chosen outlet) with no common sense is what has gotten us to this point. I also truly believe that I don’t need or want to hurt anyone. However I also truly believe that if the wolf comes knocking, the wolf won’t like what it finds. I truly believe all of these things.

        2. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

          “However I also truly believe that if the wolf comes knocking, the wolf won’t like what it finds.”

          Word. If they don’t make trouble, there won’t be any trouble. Leftists, on the other hand, are all about forcing their world view on anyone not like them…

        3. avatar No One Special says:

          Yep that’s the way I look at it too. Don’t start none and there won’t be none.

        4. avatar Chief Censor says:

          All of my points are well illustrated by a documentary on YouTube. It details the rise of the great revolutionary Cow Tse Tongue who lead the Great Bovine Rebellion in Bolivia.

  30. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    UNALIENABLE rights cannot be altered or remove by legislation!! Notice I did not use the word law, legislation or not it would be an actual law, in a metaphysical sense.

  31. avatar Substitute says:

    I disagree with this article. Confiscation won’t happen as we picture it. Most likely it will involve some work around law like one prohibiting the transportation of a firearm without a permit. Then someone is pulled over on the way to the range with no transport permit and boom… felony and confiscation. There are a million work around ways that I could think of that are confiscation in a slightly disguised form. Note, this may not be in the near future but give it a few decades.

    As for gun owners being a group that can hit back, yes but for the most part we won’t. “Hitting back” if it really comes down to it will mean living your life as a resistance fighter on the run, or getting in a long expensive legal battle for civil and criminal matters. Most people are far too happy being employed and having a family to let that happen.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Anti liberty people make laws that disallows convicted felons from owning a firearm and voting. Then they make everything a felony. In the past they argued human rights only exists if you are a human and a citizen of the United States. Then they redefine black humans into property and Indians/natives into enemy combatants to deny them American citizenship.

      That process has been happening before the United States existed. Hence why you have always felt like the government was coming for your weapons. You didn’t realize their strategy until they outright said it to everyone. When Bush was president they would simply dismiss you as a “conspiracy theorist.” Now they are telling you registration, banning and confiscation is on the horizon.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        “In the past they argued human rights only exists if you are a human…”

        Today we know better. We know that human rights are for cats and dogs and bears and fish and trees and rocks and the ocean.

  32. avatar borg says:

    The risk of a civil war helps prevent gun confiscation.

  33. avatar Ralph says:

    A lot of gun owners, maybe most, don’t have the courage or desire to resist gun confiscation. Thomas Paine would have called them summer soldiers and sunshine patriots. They mean well, sure, but they’re so law abiding that the very thought of resistance makes their knees go all wobbly. They won’t fight, but they probably will collaborate.

    If things do get ugly, it will make the War Between the States look like a picnic.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      You have that right. The American Civil War I was rather civil and organized. At least it was organize geographically and with uniforms and was largely “symmetrical”. #II might well be rural vs urban. Or even house vs house.

      Food and energy for the hive dwellers would liely quickly become a bigger issue than gunshot. All the sillyass windmills, NG and veggies originate in Redworld.

      The 3% rule applies. 3% of 20million AR (initially) is still bunch as is 3% of the total civilian owned stock of firearms. With apologies to the big talkers, I think most people understand that the big mouth is the 1st to feel the wrath of the establishment and that it takes time for an revolution to build and see if has the popular support to build and survive. Most do not grow/fester. If the establishment has a brain, they recognize an insurrection that is a threat to them, they then either correct their ways to neutralize the threat to their reign or they over react and try to crush it. How would this crop of dimmits progtards would go it hey get power (think AOC)?

      1. avatar Big E says:

        It is a sobering thought. Civil strife won’t be pretty and I think you are on to something in that it will likely more closely resemble the Revolution than the Civil War. Patriots and Tories mixed together in the same neighborhoods instead of (mostly) neat geographic dividing lines. I don’t believe anyone really knows what will happen or what will finally precipitate “it” but many, maybe most, people can sense it coming. The tension is rising. The greatest threat to me and my families liberty and well-being is not Iran, No Korea, Russia or China. It is the “American” Progressive and their 3rd world peasant minions. They feel the same- people like me are a roadblock to their socialist paradise. I suspect it will come to violence and I’m not sure either side will win.

  34. avatar neiowa says:

    You must be suspicious of any “journalist” that was ever on staff of WIRED. Not that much different from MOTHER JONES or any other leftist rag.

    Read up on the West Virginia coal field “war” of the early 1920. Union organizing thugs (redundant) vs coal mine owner hired thugs allied w/johnney law thugs. Peoples Broadcasting System is now running a pretty good documentary on the time. “THE MINE WARS” – watch the last 1/2 hour for the action concerned.

    Thousands of armed guys on board sides in a real no shit shooting “war”. Crew served machineguns and “airpower”. Mass house to house search and thousands of guns/ammunition confiscated by the cops/rentacops.

    This should be as well recognized by our side as the “Battle of Athens”

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/minewars/
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/forgotten-matewan-massacre-was-epicenter-20th-century-mine-wars-180963026/

  35. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Someone once explained here that door-to-door confiscation is a ruse, a distraction. Making guns so socially unacceptable, and constraining ownership to the point that they can’t even be personally sold or inherited legally will be almost effective. Add to that the banning of state businesses, or state chartered businesses (like banks and credit unions), and the public presence of guns will be as rare as the best confiscation operation ever conducted.

    While we are focused on the shiny object of a standoff with SWAT, the anti-gunners are closing down more and more options for gun owners. Their committed activists are many, ours are fewer. They have a single objective, we have several.

    “Good” is ever at rest, satisfied with itself; “Evil” never rests and seeks to devour all in its path.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Very few Americans keep and bear arms, they are the small minority. The statistics are inflated. People whom like guns own many of them. Even if there are enough guns for every American, most of them are in the hands of relatively very few people.

      Look at how few Americans that own guns carry them in red states, fewer do in blue states.

      Firearms have been socially made into toys not weapons. The social engineers turned them into modern sporting rifles or hunting rifles at best, then they demonized the notion weapons are for combat. At the same time, they made handguns into the weapons of self defense for street criminals as if those are the only criminals in America and require you to ask the government for permission to carry one.

      This made it so people think of police as their righteous “self” defense, thus police can have weapons of war on the streets. When an assault weapon of war is in the hands of a civilian cop it becomes a tool for the good guys to stop all the bad guys. (If you too want to be a good guy with a gun you need to ask the government to certify you first.) There is no possible way a cop could ever be corrupt or a murderer. There is no way government could ever oppress people with their weapons of war because it’s “our” government. Therefore you don’t need to be free to own any gun you want without permission from the government.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        I had to get really really high to write that one!

  36. avatar rt66paul says:

    Why do you think Obama started so many federal agencies police branches? He was just forming secret police or federal police to do what state agencies might not.

  37. avatar Douglas Pratt says:

    In all my years, I have never read a better response to this question than the one written by Larry Correia. If you read this, you won’t regret it.
    http://monsterhunternation.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/

  38. avatar Richard Steven Hack says:

    There isn’t going to be confiscation because it’s a physical impossibility.

    80-100 million Americans own 400 million firearms. How do you “confiscate” that much sheer hardware from that many people? How many US military, and Federal, state, and local police over how much time, and at what cost would it take? We’ve just seen how frickin’ *New Zealand* can’t even do a buy back. The US is not Australia or New Zealand or Britain.

    It’s ridiculous.

    And if they try, well, we all know how many guns “fell out of a boat.” You’d miss a *minimum* or ten to twenty percent, more likely thirty. That would leave 40-120 million firearms in private hands – including every criminal and nutcase who already owns one or knows someone who still owns one.

    Finally, even if you could – ever hear the word “black market”? What happened when drugs were banned? Everyone on the planet knows Americans love and want and most importantly, *will pay* for guns. Every country on the planet will be smuggling guns into this country. How many drug dealers carry guns? How many drug dealers buy guns on the black market that are *already* being smuggled into the country to avoid having serial numbers (hint: yes, it happens – I saw a TV show about that – guns manufactured in the Philippines or someplace which end up in Oakland?)

    So, go ahead. Confiscate. We should demand they try it. If we want to be sure of having untraceable firearms available to us on every street corner at reasonable prices – just like drugs – it’s our best bet. Black markets are almost always efficient.

  39. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

    Confiscation is not the concern. Rather, drying up the supply through bans and having harsh penalties for being caught with any banned weapons is the issue.

  40. avatar R says:

    I’m pretty much a neadrethal, but even I can see that the mass shooting problem, especially in schools, is a lack of a father figure for these these shooters which creates mental issues.
    In think youth mentoring and mental health treatment should also be part of the 2A movement.
    (Being the opposite of a touchy-feely SJW, I can’t believe I just typed that. But, it’s valid)

  41. avatar Joseph says:

    Politicians never learn or just don’t care, but laws do not stop crime. Yet every time a mass shooting happens, they rush to pass more laws. Laws don’t stop anything from happening, they exist merely to punish those who get caught after violating them. The only thing that stops a mass shooter is the proverbial good guy with a gun. Always has, always will. All the talk about finding a law that will stop all this stuff is just a magnificent waste of time. Alas, the politicos know this, therefore they must have a different agenda than what they espouse. I’ll take control of the population for $200 Alex.

  42. avatar Anymouse says:

    As the article says, police won’t enforce it in many places. Colorado has a 15 round magazine limit, and it was almost all sherrifs who challenged it in court. They weren’t successful, but they’re still not enforcing it. You can go into almost any local gun shop (not out-of-state chains, like Cabela’s) and buy larger magazines. Even nationally known 5 star country club ranges/gun stores have 30 round AR mags hanging on their endcaps.

  43. avatar BusyBeef says:

    Whoever wrote this article is a dumbass because . . . . Cops in NY are exempt from the SAFE Act.
    They never had to comply.
    The carve out was specifically so that they would be willing attack dogs to confiscate other people’s rifles, simply because theirs aren’t at stake.

  44. avatar Bob Wyman says:

    Writes for “Techcrunch”? Disregard anything in the article and the “truth about guns” is losing credibility with this piece. It is nonsense and no amount of thought was given to its premise. Never heard of attrition.
    Stop saying “confiscation” and then look at what is really occurring. Gun control and laws of every sort and 100 ways to disarm you while you still have a firearm. Congress ignoring The Constitution daily and police having more power than any agency should ever dream of having.
    The slow but steady pace of chipping away at protected Rights is almost complete and you have done what? You have continued to claim to be a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter yet still say “gun debate”! Who said there was a debate? Who told you to speak for me? Agreeing to background checks as most of you do is allowing infringement. By allowing something in the law long enough it becomes law. What idiot does not know a Right is something you do not ask permission to exercise? Why are you even using the term “assault”?? Rifle is fine. “Assault” added then I do not know what you are talking about. And why are you being nice?
    Compromise. Big mistake.
    You have allowed abuses by law enforcement because you bought into the “evil drug trade” when in fact you know nothing about drugs or drug laws. Drugs are harmless compared to the punishments you have allowed. Drug laws are in fact racist, look it up.
    So what if you have some big gun collection and talk your ballistics gibberish while waving your flag? You cannot bring your pistol to your vehicle unless it is totally taken apart just to go to the forest can you? because you do not even know what laws exist. The Forest Service posts signs “No target Shooting” so you go home. This is all as good as confiscation. The Forest Service has no Right to post such signs.
    You continue to “debate” those who clearly are violating your Rights. Those gun-control groups. Do not debate them, you sign complaints and file charges against them. They want to disarm you while they have bodyguards. That is a death threat in my book.
    There is not one person in Congress that should be re-elected but you re-elect them and you grouse about Koch Brothers of whom you know nothing.
    When .22 ammo disappeared you had a stockpile or what you thought was a stockpile so you put it up for auction on Gunbrokers for prices you should go choke on. THAT did more for gun-control than gun-control central could ever dream of.
    Obama closed all lead smelters so are you going to load your own? Using what? Areas of National Forest that target shooting was allowed they disallow anyone from picking up brass. Target ranges too.
    Say nothing or they will say you are crazy and no warrant needed. How legal is this? Ask the court where tyranny rules all.
    How many think SCOTUS is the law? They are political appointees. Period. Interpret the Bill of Rights for ya buddy? Think you know what militia is? One fucking sentence you cannot get Right because you slept through history class or they stopped even teaching it. Justices have been all over the map with The Bill of Rights.
    It is you that have destroyed your Second Amendment and proof will be those who argue with what I have stated here. More debate. The assholes organized and you did not. Idiot high school shitHoggs are kicking your asses and you all sit here and make snide stupid smart mouth comments to amuse yourselves. And you allow executive orders. You forgot to learn how to attack. Too busy? They weren’t. They found billionaires and you watch youtube videos…

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Your point being, what, exactly?

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