First responders stage outside Berkey Hall following shootings on the campus of Michigan State University, Monday, Feb. 13, 2023, in East Lansing, Mich. (AP Photo/Al Goldis)
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By David Riedman, University of Central Florida and James Densley, Metropolitan State University

A gunman opened fire at Michigan State University on Feb. 13, 2023, killing three people and injuring five others before taking his own life.

A lot is still unknown about the campus attack. Police have yet to release a motive and said the 43-year-old man responsible did not have any known connections to the university.

While rare, campus attacks are not unheard of in the U.S. In November 2022, three members of the University of Virginia football team were shot and killed on campus, and four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in their off-campus residence.

Criminologists David Riedman of the University of Central Florida and James Densley, at Metropolitan State University, maintain databases of mass shootings in the U.S. The Conversation asked them how the latest attack fit with the pattern of such attacks in the past.

How frequent are campus shootings at colleges and universities?

No agency is tracking every U.S. campus shooting in real time, and defining them can be difficult because many higher education institutions are intertwined with the surrounding community. For example, Michigan State University has over 50,000 students enrolled and more than 11,000 residing on its main campus, which is made up of more than 8 square miles (21 square kilometers) of contiguous urban, suburban, industrial and rural areas.

Technically, a shooting in the parking lot during a college football game attended by 100,000 people or at a residence that leases to college students could be classed as a college or university shooting.

We do, however, have data on mass shootings on campus.

There have been nine mass shootings in or around college or university settings since 1966, according to The Violence Project database, which defines a mass shooting as one in which four or more people are murdered in public in a single incident. This would not include the Michigan State University shooting at this stage, or many other incidents in which fewer people than four were killed. It also doesn’t include the 1970 Kent State massacre in which four students were shot dead by the Ohio National Guard.

The most deadly of these mass shootings was the 2007 attack by a student at Virginia Tech in which 32 people were killed. Since then, there have been five more mass shootings, the last being in 2015 when a 26-year-old student at Umpqua Community College near Roseburg, Oregon, fatally shot a professor and 8 students in a classroom.

In all the campus mass shootings in the database, the gunman was a man, with an average age of 28. The youngest was 22 and the oldest was 43. Six of the nine perpetrators were nonwhite.

What do we know about campus shooters in general?

College and university shooters typically have a prior connection to the campuses they target. For example, a shooter who killed three people and wounded three others at the University of Alabama in Huntsville in 2010 was a biology faculty member with a history of violence who had recently been denied tenure.

It is unclear why the latest shooter targeted Michigan State, and because he’s dead, we may never know for sure.

But the fact that he took his life after the attacks is not unusual. Five of the nine college mass shooters in our data died by suicide. Our research shows mass shootings are often a form of suicide driven by despair.

Mass shooters also tend to be boys and men in a noticeable crisis who communicate intent to do harm in advance. If family, friends and co-workers know the warning signs of violence and how to report them, there is an opportunity to stop it from occurring. In December 2021, for example, students at Embry-Riddle University warned campus officials of violent threats a fellow student had made on Snapchat and helped avert a potential shooting tragedy.

Was the police operation typical of similar shootings?

Between the first alert at 8:31 p.m. telling Michigan State students to “run, hide and fight” where necessary, and the police news conference confirming the gunman’s death at 12:20 a.m., a lot of misinformation circulated online amid confusion on campus.

There were two shootings within minutes at Berkey Hall, an academic building on the northern part of campus, and the MSU Union Building, west of Berkey Hall, but police also received calls about shots fired at seven other campus locations. Law enforcement were sent scrambling across the university campus only to find no other evidence of shootings.

Police also responded to reports of men on campus with rifles that turned out to be plainclothes police officers, and the name and photo of an alleged suspect circulated online that turned out to be false.

Mass public shootings are chaotic scenes, and the confusion at Michigan State was similar to the 2017 Las Vegas Harvest Festival shooting in which 60 people were killed by a single gunman. In that attack, officers received dozens of incorrect reports about who and where the shooter was.

This loss of what is known as a “common operating picture” – a single, consistent, display of relevant information – was cited as one of the critical issues for first responders to address in the 9/11 Commission Report released in 2004. It continues to be an issue today, exacerbated in part by social media.

What can college students and staff do?

The immediate focus should be on providing services for survivors, and the families of those who died. The trauma of experiencing or witnessing a shooting can have lasting psychological impacts, including post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety and depression. Survivors may also face physical injuries, long-term disabilities and financial burdens related to medical treatment and recovery.

Mass shootings have far-reaching and devastating effects that extend to communities and society as a whole, including increased fear and anxiety, social isolation, and a sense of helplessness and despair. Supporting the survivors and victims of mass shootings means providing them with the resources and support needed to heal and recover, while also working to prevent future acts of gun violence.The Conversation


David Riedman, Ph.D. student in Criminal Justice and Creator of the K-12 School Shooting Database, University of Central Florida and James Densley, Professor of Criminal Justice, Metropolitan State University

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

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    • What can we do as an intelligent people to get guns out of the hands of the college shooters before they attack?

      • Move to a place that caterers to your desire to be a subject. Or accept that violence is unavoidable and work to improve the opportunities for most Americans and reduce the overall despair of declining standards of living while being armed and ready to shoot back if needed.

        • “Move to a place that caterers to your desire to be a subject.”

          Better, an ‘intelligent person’ can not expose themselves to potentially lethal gunfire by choosing not to enter areas like college campuses that lie when they call themselves a “gun-free zone”… 🙂

      • “What can we do as an intelligent people to get guns out of the hands of the college shooters before they attack?”

        intelligent people with a fire arm would shoot them until they expire before they can fire, thus getting the gun out of their hand before they can attack.

        Other than that, if you can catch them on that slide into violence to satisfy their mental illness driver then maybe do something then.

      • The Gun Control misguided imbelciles run to for promises of safety was and is the numero uno source for soft targets, obviously criminals appreciate Gun Control as they should.

        • when someone wants to shoot people you go to where they are concentrated..strength in numbers may be self-defeating

      • How avou PUTTING them in the hands of honest law abiding folk who wouid far outnumber the killers and foil their intent to kill as many as they can,,,,,,,
        and be far more likely end up dead before they reach their predicted body count.

        In other words, LET CITIZENS SHOOT BACK.

        Remember that mall shooting incident that never happened? A normal guy drew his own handgun and aimed at the perp after he had shot two innocents. . He held fire because he saw innnocents in the background, and refused to endanger them. It was enough. Perp took his rifle, hopped off his little perch, and walked dpwn one of the passageways, into a service area, and made the best use of his rifle he’d done all day…. fired a round into his own twisted brain. End of killing. No one I know can remember that creep’s name. Just exactly what he deserved.

        By the bye, that incident occurred in what the mall owners (or maybe their insurers) had determined to be a “gun free zone”There were “pretty please don’t bring your gun inside our nice safe mall we don’t want anyone to get hurt in here”. But the signes, not being made according to the pattern specified under State Law were not binding, so there never was any attempt to charge the hero of the day for bringing HIS gun inside the mall. Turns out another friend of mine was also there that day, got locked down, so she could not run toward the ginfire to help. It was all over before she ever could have gotten there. But SHE was also armed and ready.
        Those “oretty please” signs are still there… and we all still laugh at them, remembering the day they were ignored by at least two honest citizens and knowing they mean nothing more than a faux peace of mind for those with an irrational fear of guns.

        I fear them alright, but only when they are in the hands of evil people. And I also carry my own everywhere. Not trying to be a hero, just being wise. I was a good Boy Scout, and still live by our Motto: BE PREPARED.

      • “get guns out of the hands of the college shooters before they attack?”

        Nothing. Prior restraint is the essence of tyranny. Remember “innocent till proved guilty”? Armed resistance reduces casualties…

        This is shown clearly by the fact that if you take their guns in advance, then they aren’t college shooters. And, in fact, you will never know what they are.

      • Start by firing progressive prosecuting attorneys. Followup by firing progressive liberal minded judges, and any judges appointed by Democrat presidents. Follow that up by repealing gun laws and gun free zones around the country. Follow that up by encouraging all law abiding citizens to arm themselves. Then, stand back and watch nature take it’s course. Some idiot decides to go postal, and six people all shoot back at him, he dies, all six get a medal and free coffee at Dunkin Donuts for life. Problem solved.

        And, I’m as serious as a heart attack here. This problem we have today is a problem of our own making. We created the situation, when we created gun free zones.

      • when you’re charged with a felony don’t reduce it to a misdemeanor…pk?….this was preventable

      • there’s actually very little you can do unless you want to prosecute people for thought crimes…so protecting yourself when permitted is not that far out there… the idea of arming teachers strikes me as mildly amusing as some have been doing it covertly for years…..

  1. What can college students and staff do? Arm yourself. Phck the rules. if it isn’t a criminal violation then carry a gun.

    • “if it isn’t a criminal violation then carry a gun”

      Or even if it is, but they don’t have the means to detect it.

      • a lot depends on where you reside…privacy in dorms is minimal…I had one in the frat house which didn’t prevent guys from finding it…living in an off-campus apartment works best….if you carry it on-campus you better keep it well-concealed….

  2. What We Know About Campus Shootings and the Killers Who Carry Them Out…

    violently mentally ill person, campus is gun free zone.

    gun free zones, defined:

    “gun (gŭn) free (frē) zone (zōn)

    * Trap in which people congregate and are falsely promised safety by a make believe force field of a ‘No Guns” prohibition.

    * A place where people are disarmed and not permitted self-defense with firearms.

    * Hunting grounds for predator criminals where defenseless prey is guaranteed by law.

    * Place where existing laws against violent crimes do not work to prevent violent crimes the laws are touted to be able to prevent.

    * Places designed to attract violently mentally ill predators.

    * Places where police forces cease to operate to protect before the fact of a violent crime as they are touted to be able to do by politicians implying.

    In the Journal of Threat Assessment and Management, 7(3-4), 135–156. (Lankford, A., & Cowan, R. G. (2020)) ( )

    … Cowan writes of their research they “…closely analyzed public mass shooters who attacked in the United States from 1966 to 2019 and found that correlates of mental illness were approximately equally common among perpetrators, whether they had been coded as mentally ill or not.”

    Forensic psychiatrists James L. Knoll IV, MD, and George D. Annas, MD, MPH, of SUNY Upstate Medical University in Syracuse New York, both leading authorities on the mental health aspects of mass shooters, summed it up for the issue for the mental health community various studies on various aspects in terms of mass shooters…. Although mass shooters may not meet DSM-5 criteria for a recognized disorder, “they do have an ill-defined trouble of the mind for which the mental health field has no immediate, quick-acting ‘treatment,’” – in other words, mass shooters do have mental illness driving them but not something clearly defined and for which the mental health community basically has no treatment.

    (Note: To be complete, the author of this missive does sort of hint though they know its mental illness but without saying it outright – with this” “Our research shows mass shootings are often a form of suicide driven by despair.” – although not the only driver of mental illness leading to such mass events that is a mental illness plus the driver for suicide is mental illness.)

    • I’ll add EVIL exists. Maybe the latest monster hated college students. We’ll never know…carry on.

      • According to police, the latest campus monster had a history of mental illness, and became angry after the death of his mother. They also found a note where he was planning for two other schools as well.

        • Are you suggesting we take the guns of those with a “history of mental illness” as a preventative measure?

        • Innocent. If he’s too dangerous to have a gun then he’s too dangerous to be free on our streets. Weapons of all types are available. Not a shot was fired in Oklahoma City at the federal building but nearly 200 people died.

          A person with murder in their heart will not be deterred by gun laws. After all, murder is also illegal.

        • “Are you suggesting we take the guns of those with a “history of mental illness” as a preventative measure?”

          Mentally-ill people are no more dangerous than any other person, people who vote democrat keep telling us… 🙂

        • @Innocent Bystander

          “Are you suggesting we take the guns of those with a “history of mental illness” as a preventative measure?”

          I didn’t say that Miner49er… errrr Innocent Bystander.

          That’s favorite Miner49er trick, infer something that was not said to take the discussion off into his wonderland grand tour of out of context trolling.

        • Innocent Bystander –“”Are you suggesting we take the guns of those with a “history of mental illness” as a preventative measure?””

          Not everyone with a mental illness is violent and not every violent person has mental illness. Those who have a mental illness that is violent in nature should be removed from society for the safety of society and the individual and be given humane and sound treatment for their illness.

          Those who are violent without mental illness should be removed from society and kept separate from those who have a true mental illness.

          Using the DSM any mental health professional can find some sort of perceived mental illness with each and every person they interview, and if they were honest, themselves. Be careful with such labels and the definitions.

      • That’s part of the problem, the psychologists do not recognize evil, they call it insanity which it can mimic.

      • people tend to feel insulated on a college campus…somewhat apart from the rest of the world…that was true once….not anymore…

  3. All I know is that 40 years ago it was easier to buy a firearm in this country than it is today. No NICS checks, no ’89 AWB, private sales legal in most places. In some states, kids kept their rifles in their cars on opening day of hunting season, or year round. Some schools had shooting teams with .22 cal ranges in the basement. University students kept firearms in their dorm rooms without incident, and this played a huge part in charles whitman’s rampage claiming less lives than it could have at UT.

    School shootings didn’t happen back then because most parents, regardless of wealth or social status, actively raised their kids to be functioning, well-behaved members of society. Those who showed sh!thead tendencies were course-corrected and disciplined by parents and mentors alike to the best of their abilities.

    • What intelligent solutions can be implemented to stop weapons getting into the hands of people like these college shooters?

      • Innocent Bystander,

        I have thought long and hard about your question and I have determined that there are no effective solutions. The truth of the matter is that we live in an open society and people who live and walk freely among us will acquire anything they want if they are determined to acquire it. Trying to stop someone from acquiring (insert name of any item) is a futile game of “whack-a-mole”.

        The intelligent solutions which we should be seeking are:
        1) Understand why people decide to go on a killing spree.
        2) Minimize the social factors which drive people to killing sprees.

        And since some spree killers will “fall through the cracks” of intelligent solutions to the above, as many responsible people as possible should be armed and ready to stop said spree killers and thus minimize their casualty counts.

      • well, the solution is not taking away the constitutional rights of over 140 million law abiding gun owners who did not do it.

        • I agree .40 cal, but what can be done to target the minority that are not responsible before they act? If we – who believe in the right to bear arms – can’t come up with any preventative measures, the other side will.

        • They will push such nonsense regardless even without a shooting. That it is a situation without a solution especially if liberty is to exist just makes it a talking point. Punish the guilty, help those who suffer, and ridicule those who seek power over others would be good general starting points.

        • “If we – who believe in the right to bear arms – can’t come up with any preventative measures, the other side will.”

          The failed “War on Drugs” is quite instructive, supposedly intelligent person . No matter how many laws were passed, with very severe penalties, drugs are still just as available as before, with tens of thousands dead annually.

          Actually-intelligent people understand that, and accept that people will die of drug overdoses. In fact, even as overdose deaths mount, forward-thinking democrats insist that what must be done is that all drugs should be legalized.

          Guns are a fact of life in America, the same as drugs. Accept that as we accept that drugs are also a fact of life in America. You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

          If you can’t accept that, pack your luggage and leave America… 🙂

        • “If we – who believe in the right to bear arms – can’t come up with any preventative measures, the other side will.”

          The other side can’t come up with any either, so don’t worry about that.

          Our pro2A side has come up with preventative measures in case you missed it. These have been repeatedly proposed by the 2A side as common sense and reality sense preventative measures:

          1. Make the NICS system work and stop it from being used as a ‘funds justification’ and political tool.

          2. Increase ‘anonymous’ mental health treatment accessibility and awareness. Over 80% of mass shooters in the last 40 years who did seek mental health treatment help before they committed their acts were dissuaded from either doing so or were persuaded to leave treatment because their treatment would be reported in documentation the government (e.g. state/county/city/federal) would receive due to ‘possibly violent’ and they were afraid the government would try to persecute them even though up to that point they had not committed any of their then future acts.

          3. Make police and governments stop treating mental illness as something ‘social program thing’ and throwing money away on programs that have been demonstrated time and time again to not work and treat it as what it is, a serious disease that needs serious treatment.

          4. Stop trying to make the public so ‘sensitive’ to offending the mentally ill. Over 70% of the mental health professionals with patients that were at risk of violence or suicide, even though they recognized the warning signs (which are not always obvious by the way) didn’t do anything about it for fear of offending the person thus possibly being subjected to law suit. This is why more people in mental health treatment for suicide ideation or are violent commit suicide or commit acts of violence than those being subjected to any other environment – the mental health professional is afraid of being sued if they offend the person by labeling them a ‘suicide risk’ or a ‘violence risk’.

          4. Stop wasting money and resources and time on removing constitutional rights for the law abiding and put that money, resources, and time into programs that really work. Last year the collective blue states and federal money spent on trying to remove/restrict firearms for law abiding people cost $28.3 Billion dollars, only $2.3 Billion dollars was spent on ‘social programs’ aimed at a combination of mental health and poverty and crime to prevent ‘gun violence’ and most of those were programs that had failed time and time again in the past but money was still poured into them.

          5. Teach students on campus that its not always a good thing to hunker down, that instinct to run is right 99% of the time. It makes them a stationary target.

          6. Let people have the means to defend them selves and others. Get rid of gun free zones, they do not work to prevent mass shootings. Arm school staff (if they want to be armed). Get away from collecge campus police or city police forces as the main reponse and have dorm and buliding level armed resource officers alredy on scene where these things happen whihc are campus dorms and buildings insted of waiting for a campus/city police force to arrive

          7. Harden educational facility campuses. Not just throw money at them for some doors and locks and maybe some glass and a few sprinklings of school resource officers here and there. In every area of this country there is a trained and ready force of retired military that would volunteer, complete any program the state dictates, provide their own firearms if they need to do so, they know how to put a stop to a hostile threat and only the threat and they are not ‘restricted’ by the social moral delima of shoot don’t shoot when it needs to be done and there is no other choice like civilian police forces are. Put them to work, heck, they will volunteer because they have kids and grandkids and relatives in these schools too, and not many school/campus shooters would go up aginst an on site trained capable military force that will for a fact not worry about their rights or waiting on a bureaucrat to decide to wait (e.g. Uvalde). Heck, mass shooters have alredy run off or commited suicide or are defeated when faced with an ordinary armed citizen way before the police arrived.

          A mass shooter has, on average, minimum 3 minutes kill area dominance in each target zone without stress of being stopped by police, has 15 seconds or less kill area dominance time when an ordinary armed citizen present engages them by firearm. Think how its going to be if they know an on campus quick reaction military trained fire team is going to be all over them and no one is going to wait for the police to show up.

          There’s a whole list of these things that have been proposed over time by the pro2A side. Each time its met by the anti-gun side with, basically, “ban guns” especially at state levels in Blue states where less than 15% of the federal money for programs for ‘gun violence’ gets into the actual program and the state eats it up for other things. The other side just doesn’t get it – they don’t want it to stop as there is no money in it for them if it stops (e.g. federal funds for continuing programs that don’t work for which less than 20% actually makes it into the programs), there is no credit for anything in a ‘continuing battle they claim they are winning for the people’ it for them if it stops, there is no control in it for them if it stops – if it stops their day is done, they don’t want to be done, they want to control.

        • correction: “where less than 15% of the federal money”

          should have been “where less than 20% of the federal money”

          less than 15% gets into programs for mental health specifically, less than 20% gets into overall programs for ‘gun violence’

        • correction: “retired military”

          should have been “retired and ex military”

          Correction: “Get rid of gun free zones, they do not work to prevent mass shootings.”

          should be

          Get rid of gun free zones. They do not work to prevent mass shootings or crime and they attract criminals and mass shooters who use them for hunting grounds because they are guaranteed defenseless prey by law.

      • How about we check if a prospective purchaser has any recorded criminal charges and convictions against them?

        It won’t be “Minority Report” level accurate but that is Hollywood fiction.

    • ….and religion was more ingrained into our lives…particularly during the formative years…even if you reject it later, some of it sticks with you in regards to right and wrong and respect for our fellow human beings…it’s not their fault you’re unhappy…go look in a mirror

  4. Mass shooters also tend to be boys and men in a noticeable crisis who communicate intent to do harm in advance. If family, friends and co-workers know the warning signs of violence and how to report them, there is an opportunity to stop it from occurring.

    While that bold-font phrase (“there is an opportunity to stop it”) is technically true, in practice it is not true. How many times have we seen spree killers, “… who were known to law enforcement,” who nevertheless carried out their horrendous deeds anyway without any resistance from law enforcement (until it was too late)?

  5. As my comment above illustrates, the reality of the matter is that law enforcement virtually NEVER stops spree killers from attacking and thus maiming/murdering countless people.

    There are three simple measures that We the People can practice to minimize the casualty count of spree killers.

    Remain alert and know in your inmost being that violent attackers are around us and do attack. That means recognizing an attack if one occurs rather than dismissing/denying the attack and wasting precious seconds of reaction time.

    If an attack occurs, everyone must rush the attacker–unless that rush is guaranteed suicide–to incapacitate him/her. Running away makes sense if you are far enough from the attacker that he/she is unlikely to strike, slash, stab, and/or shoot you and you are unable to effectively rush and therefore incapacitate the attacker. Trying to hide is your last resort in the most absolutely desperate of situations.

    It goes without saying that you should be armed for righteous self-defense whenever even remotely practical.

    • What if we enacted laws to ‘hold’ guns of the “Known to Authorities” types? we are going to have to come up with smart ideas and not just arm our students. As evidenced by other school shootings, even having trained police at the school during the shooting is useless.

      • Already exist and don’t work for many of the same reasons that gang affiliated felons can get whatever guns they want easier and cheaper than law abiding residents of gun restricted states. At best they may be disarmed of what they are known to possess/found in search. Getting new weapons is trivial if they are motivated.

      • Arming our students may not be the only answer, Innocent. But it is part of the answer. Gun Free Zones are a bigger failure than the War On Drugs.

      • Innocent Bystander,

        You seem to be obsessed with the idea of trying to disarm “bad” people. You are also dismissing what I already stated above: we live in a free and open society and anyone who freely walks among us will acquire whatever they want if they are determined to do so, no matter what laws are in effect. Period. Full stop.

        Nevertheless, I will play your game to illustrate the point:
        Suppose you are a “prohibited person” who cannot legally possess nor purchase firearms and law enforcement has already confiscated all of your firearms which you presently own. Undeterred, you simply go to some urban Hellscape and purchase a firearm from John Doe in some dark ally. Or you steal a firearm from a home. Or you befriend a cop or a criminal who possesses a firearm and clobber him/her over the head when they are not looking and take his/her firearm. Or you drive someone’s vehicle through the wall of a firearm store and steal their firearms. Or you make one yourself (which is not very hard at all to do). Or you murder a family member and take his/her firearm (as was the case in the Sandy Hook Elementary School attack).

      • “we are going to have to come up with smart ideas and not just arm our students.”

        Arming students is not a solution. But arming students is part of the solution. I responded to your earlier post above. ALL law abiding citizens need to be encouraged to arm themselves. When a rabid dog runs amok, someone should be nearby with a weapon to put that dog down.

  6. What We Know About Campus Shootings and the Killers Who Carry Them Out?
    We usually find out later that the shooters were “Known To Authorities”

  7. “This loss of what is known as a ‘common operating picture’ – a single, consistent, display of relevant information – was cited as one of the critical issues for first responders to address in the 9/11 Commission Report released in 2004. It continues to be an issue today, exacerbated in part by social media.”

    Ya would like to believe that the police are smart enough not to rely on ‘social media’ as a crime response tool but I guess that’s wishful thinking. Over 90% of what they get from ‘social media’ for crime response is intentionally false. There are just too many idiots out there on ‘social media’ who want to see the bad guys get way and watch the world burn.

    • the story seems to supplanted by the conviction of the white kid who wanted to kill black people in Buffalo….seems to more neatly fit into their narrative

  8. @ innocent bystander. Exactly why you are responsible for you. I choose not to be victim. if I happen to prevent other I innocent people from being murdered by eliminating the threat, that’s great. I carry a gun wherever I go, you choose not to which is fine.I hope you never need a gun.

    • MB (the real MB) — I expected brainless responses. I carry a Gen 2 Springfield XD 9mm short barrel every day, asshole.

        • Void — I’m just tired of assholes jumping to conclusions and being disrespectful during a respectful exchange of ideas.

        • Lol in what way did any of that happen especially when half of your questions are leading and follow a pattern of disingenuous reasoning we see from troll posters daily. If anything MB was the least guarded with you so my question is university assignment, paid poster, or just for fun as anyone with an ounce of reason seeking information does not behave as you do this far.

  9. Void — how is this — “I carry a gun wherever I go, you choose not to which is fine.I hope you never need a gun”. Void, I’ve been around this site shortly after Robert Farago started it. I usually avoid even reading the comments because it’s usually the same old posters with nothing to do or pretending to be women. But today I’m just asking this bright bunch what we can do to stop these shootings before they happen. The answer isn’t letting all the students carry. We can do better than that for a solution, can’t we?

      • “Let’s hear your suggestions,…”

        Please, he has none, he’s here trolling.

        I did notice something interesting, he’s flat-out refused to nibble at the tasty bait I’ve been dangling under his nose, I wonder why? 🙂

        • start by securing the place…easy access should be denied…where groups are gathered security should be present…that guy had no business being on that campus

    • So hurt feelings over an assumption and not liking how people speak? Sounds like a you problem but good luck with whatever you are going for, agenda posters are always fun.

    • “But today I’m just asking this bright bunch what we can do to stop these shootings before they happen.”

      Turn America into a fully-fascist authoritarian nation with summary executions for minor infractions. That’s what it will take. Put metal detectors in front of every university. Is that how you want to live, asshole? 🙂

    • Such disingenuous nonsense. Like an obnoxious child asking “why, why, why, why, why, why…” when he either knows damn well why or knows there is no answer.

      If you simply want people to reassure that the already implemented and failed ideas like UBC’s, Red Flags, signage, mandatory locks/storage, age limits, etc…, you and all the other morons have are good ideas just say so.

      Maybe you have a new, nevahbendunb4 idea you’d like to share but I doubt it.

    • IB. The only way that I can see is to install metal detectors with armed security guards. All doors, and windows, need to be able to be remotely locked and unlocked with constantly monitered security cameras installed in all hallways, common areas & classrooms. that would go a long way to fortifying the buildings. for the outside it would require armed security patrols. Unfortunately that would not go over very well with the students and faculty as the campus would start to feel like a jail without a secured perimeter.

    • The answer really is allowing students to carry. You know damned well that the criminal is going to carry – why deny law abiding citizens the right to respond in kind?

  10. @innocent bystander… Wonder is you would say that in person. I didn’t try to offend you, but I suggest you cool the attitude, because with your temper you are likely to shoot someone.

      • @void. Yes sir, I don’t know what happened there, maybe just having a bad day. My point that he seems to have missed is that we all have free will. I know I prefer not to live to others will, and likewise I wouldn’t force someone into a situation they are naturally uncomfortable with. I’m too old and slow to wrestle with some 24 year old hopped up on meth who intends to do harm to me or someone else, hence my firearm.

        • Even weirder he only had much in the way of replies starting with your use of @ and then some others linked to that chain. I was joking about the AI script but stranger things have been seen online.

      • Well of course the “If I am too unhinged to be trusted with a weapon surely only a small number of professionals should ever be allowed to do so” mentality is rife amongst those who support government control despite historical evidence of it being a horrible idea.

  11. Just because the shooters were on the government payroll doesn’t mean 4 murders didn’t happen at Kent State.

    • actually walked that ground…my kid teaches there…not much to remind you of what happened but a small memorial…and the townspeople don’t like to talk about it

  12. Innocent Bystander …

    “But today I’m just asking this bright bunch what we can do to stop these shootings before they happen.”

    I second Jethro the Janitor’s request that you provide your ideas of what can be done.

    Certainly you have some?

    • more security and a sense of awareness…more violence on college campuses now than in the past…particularly in a city setting but by no means limited to that…some of it has to do with drugs, others with the nature of some of their students…the college-loan scam now means they accept practically anybody…it’s no longer the academic island of civility it once was…

    • @innocent bystander. No harm, no foul. This is a forum to exchange ideas. It’s easy to misinterpret without visual reference. these conversations in person would always be more cordial and civil. I appreciate your response, Stay safe, there is evil in the world.

  13. “…what we can do…”

    I’ll bite. You can’t do much about the tools they use. The only thing would be to get some of those Brazilian MRI machines and fly them around suspended from helicopters, and suck up all the guns. And, if there are no guns, there will still be knives. Whoops, accidentally sucked them up also. Ok, rocks and sticks. Hands and feet–ask strych9. Point being, that’s how useless it is to try to prevent people from obtaining weapons; where there’s a will, there’s a way.

    The answer lies in the human heart, because that’s where the evil takes root. But, as a society, we’ve gone way far down the path away from dealing with that topic forthrightly. One can rail against it all day, but one simply cannot escape the fact that when the founders wrote up the plans for this country (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.), they noted that it would work only for a morally grounded society, and they were correct. Whenever evil, debauchery, crime, etc. become commonplace and even celebrated, well, what do you expect to happen?

    Pick your medicine. If we continue down this path, we can do nothing.

  14. Lessons Learned :

    1. The anti-gun-gun-control industry is full of lies and deception. Contrary to what they claim, there is no such thing as a law or Gun Free Zone that will keep people safe from violent crime or mass shooting/knifing/bludgeoning. Oh yes, there is mass knifing/bludgeoning just in a distributed sense – ~1,400 criminal knife attacks on victims daily and ~3,500 criminal attacks daily on victims by use of ‘bludgeoning’ weapons, for example, bats and crowbars, across the US resulting in (collectively) serious injury or death. Then there is the other violent crime in the thousands daily.

    2. Gun Free Zones and the laws that establish them have caused death and injury. Gun Free Zones attract criminals and mass shooters who use them for hunting grounds because they are guaranteed defenseless prey by law.

    3. Current times, when mass shootings and gun-crime happen – there are over 140 million law abiding gun owners who did not do it yet the gun-control industry literally spends billions of dollars (last year over $28.3 billion collectively between federal and blue states) annually to infringe/restrict/remove the constitutional rights of the over 140 million law abiding gun owners who did not do it.

    4. Criminals and mass shooters do not obey the law against committing crime and mass shootings and murder. This is an inherent trait, and by definition and desire they do not obey the law. Yet, the gun-control industry literally spends billions of dollars (last year over $28.3 billion collectively between federal and blue states) annually to infringe/restrict/remove the constitutional rights of the over 140 million law abiding gun owners who did not do it, and start screaming for more laws.

    5. Violent mentally ill people are violently mentally ill. Its not a mystery. Yet when a mass shooting happens its a deep mystery to the gun-control industry and the first thing they do is start falsely claiming, essentially, ‘the gun did it’ and start screaming for gun bans for the over 140 million law abiding gun owners who did not do it.

    6. Despite the mental health professional community literally ‘diagnosing’ the cause of mass shootings as being mental illness and making it publicly known in studies and research, some of which was actually commissioned and paid for by the gun-control industry – the gun-control industry tries to suppress and ignore such in favor of screaming for more laws to oppress the over 140 million law abiding gun owners who did not do it and are not the problem.

    7. In the last 20 days nationwide the left-wing gun-control industry has literally facilitated and aided and caused the deaths or serious injury of, and/or imperiled, over 37,000 innocent law abiding victims by disarming them through the use of ‘sensitive places’ and ‘gun free zone’ laws. The left-wing gun-control industry leaders are safe protected by their armed protection details, some paid for by the tax dollars of the very law abiding citizens they disarm, and gated communities —– the law-abiding trying to follow these insane laws that purposely disarm only them are not so safe but hey, ya got a ‘Gun Free Zone’ sign out of it.

    8. Compared to the amount of the other violent crime in terms of serious injury or death, mass shootings are extremely rare representing less than 0.05% of all crimes that result in serious injury or death annually. Yet, the left wing ‘progressives’ and liberal ‘prosecutors’ and mayors and governors, to score political points and snag some more federal funds they can misuse, institute a ‘justice reform’ that lets violent criminals and would-be mass shooters leave or stay out of confinement with absolutely zero requirement for mental health treatment despite them clearly showing signs of mental health issues. And then the ignorant left-wingers seem surprised when they do commit violent acts and go ‘not our fault’ while the left wing gun-control industry screams for red-flag laws and mental health screening and more intrusive background checks and more oppression and persecution and tyranny for the over 140 million law abiding gun owners who have done nothing wrong.

    • just to note also that there is not one left wing mayor or governor that will enter a ‘no guns’ zone without a firearm armed protection detail. They know the truth, they make laws and put up no guns zones and signs and will tell you its to keep you safe yet violent crimes still happen in the zones and you are defenseless but they will not enter such an area without an armed protection detail. Demand that tax payer paid armed protection details be denied to your left wing governors and mayors.

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