Home Gun Control What Could Possibly Go Wrong: Open Carry Edition Gun ControlGun NationOpen Carry What Could Possibly Go Wrong: Open Carry Edition By Robert Farago - February 25, 2011 32 Facebook Twitter Pinterest WhatsApp Email ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR YOU FIRST: Pope Francis Proclaims That Military Disarmament Is a ‘Moral Obligation’ Virginia Democrats Send Nearly 40 Anti-Gun Measures To Governor ATF eForms Back Up! Conspiracy Theories Crushed by Steady Hand of Bureaucracy 32 COMMENTS That’s a great american right there. Reply It boggles the mind that this articulate young man was denied a CCW permit. Reply I really wish the cops in my client’s case had been as reasonable as these two officers were. This video shows the kinds of hassle that open carry invites, and my client’s case shows the kind of shitstorm that occasionally ensues. In our case, with a tolerably happy ending. http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/oct/13/open-carry-defendant-takes-diversion-agreement/ Reply A perfect situation where the words “Am I free to go?” apply perfectly (especially when it comes to the officers basically saying “well yes, we will show up every time and lecture you”). While this gentleman’s language may not agree with everyone, that is no reason whatsoever that he should not be able to exercise his rights. Reply I’ve said it before, I bet government and the general public would prefer concealed carry since it’s kind of hard to conceal carry an AK47. Reply While I personally don’t see anything wrong with open carry I wouldn’t do it under normal circumstances. If it is the only way to carry and it is legal then you have to work with what you’ve got. I wouldn’t want to have to deal with the Hoplophobes and I would be afraid that if a situation did come up with some murderous nut on the loose I would be targeted first. Better to blend in until the need comes up. Reply I’m in a quandry here. My thoughts: A) He has every right to do this. B) He shouldn’t be doing this. This just seems to be inviting disaster on this gentleman’s part when some trigger happy civillian, or officer who doesn’t have a relationship with this guy, runs across him. And perhaps disaster on the part of the community. How many calls does it take until the officer’s get lazy and say “Oh that’s just Adam” and it’s not. But then again, he’s doing nothing wrong, he’s got every legal right to walk down the street with an AK-47. And where I live, I do too. Reply You expressed my thoughts better than I. Reply I can’t believe you guys liked him. Ralph, are you serious that you found him articulate? That’s amazing to me. If I were on your side of the gun debate, I swear I’d be embarrassed by a guy like this. He sounded like a petulant teenager back talking to his father, pushing it as far as he can. Even in the beginning of the video when he said two or three times maybe the cops will come or maybe someone will call the cops on me, with a tone of voice that said he was hoping for just that sort of confrontation, even that made me grimace in distaste. I thought you guys were supposed to be the reasonable ones over here. Do you all approve of this kind of thing? On Sebastian’s blog there’s a good group of pro-gun guys who don’t approve. Clayton Cramer wrote an anti-open-carry piece for Pajama’s Media. I agree with that. Reply “Ralph, are you serious that you found him articulate?” Mikey, you need to look up the word “sarcasm.” I’ve seen fruit flies that were more articulate. Reply Thanks and sorry for not getting it. Reply I guess you think it’s unreasonable to exercise our legal right to open carry, but we don’t care what you think. Reply He sounded like a petulant teenager back talking to his father, pushing it as far as he can. Even in the beginning of the video when he said two or three times maybe the cops will come or maybe someone will call the cops on me, with a tone of voice that said he was hoping for just that sort of confrontation, even that made me grimace in distaste. Umm, yours must have had a different soundtrack than when I watched it. He said one time “it might be a little exciting if someone calls the cops on me you know.” The reason he is making the tape is because he has had police confrontations before while OCing. Thus the reason he made the statement. A little bit of common sense should have made that clear, I would be embarrassed if I didn’t see it. Do you get upset when documentaries say early on what they are going to set out to prove? Just saying. And he is using no unusual tone when saying it, certainly not a tone that infers he is looking for confrontation. He uses an angry/aggressive tone only once and that is when expressing his anger at people trying to infringe on his rights. Even when the cops do show he actually remains calm and collected, more than the first cop I would even say. Maybe you just wanted him to have a “tone” and so you heard it. I wish I could get in touch with my feelings and speak to you on an emotional level, since that is apparently all you understand. But the best I can do is assume you are also a tree hugger and point out that you trying to infringe on my rights hurts my feelings and makes me feel like I imagine you do when someone cuts down a bunch of trees. Sorry, my lack of estrogen just handicaps me in the touchy feely arena. Reply Yeah, Sports Shooter, lack of estrogen, that’s your problem. I suppose it’s possible for people to watch the same thing and hear two different tones of voice. And naturally those people would both think they’re right. You admitted that “documentaries say early on what they are going to set out to prove.” But then in the next sentence you said he didn’t have “a tone that infers he is looking for confrontation.” You lost me there a little bit my friend. But let me just say this. Open carry guys who look for confrontations with the police and record them are doing your side more harm than good. They invariably look like nuts and play into the gun control conceptions than to a large extent, I admit, are wrong. And then you come along and defend him right down the line. Reply Wow, you and comprehension are not good friends. I suppose it’s possible for people to watch the same thing and hear two different tones of voice. And naturally those people would both think they’re right. You admitted that “documentaries say early on what they are going to set out to prove.” But then in the next sentence you said he didn’t have “a tone that infers he is looking for confrontation.” Once again, the point is not to video himself looking for confrontation, the point is to show that you can’t open carry even though it is legal without being harassed. I know it is difficult for more emotional people to wrap their minds around the difference, but it is huge (and actually pretty obvious). You lost me there a little bit my friend. But let me just say this. Open carry guys who look for confrontations with the police and record them are doing your side more harm than good. They invariably look like nuts and play into the gun control conceptions than to a large extent, I admit, are wrong. Somehow I don’t think being lost is an uncommon experience for you. Let’s see, according to every gun control screwball I have ever met; people who CC are nuts, people who OC are nuts, people who think the 2nd amendment means anyone but the military should have guns are nuts, people who own guns are nuts, and anyone that disagrees with them in any way is nuts. So yah, you are right, gun control people do use things like this to get them riled up, as ad hominem is one weapon they wield well. So, please explain why anyone should care that you all are getting your panties in a bunch over this? It’s not like it is anything new. And then you come along and defend him right down the line. Yah, I want this great country to remain free like our founding fathers fought and died to make it. You apparently have a different view. I thought you guys were supposed to be the reasonable ones over here. Do you all approve of this kind of thing? I do. I’d like to be able to openly carry long guns without making anyone raise an eyebrow. The more people who do this the less other people will freak out. It’s like women taking off their shirts (and bras etc) in the summertime…it attracts a lot of attention now…in a few years hopefully none. Reply I love this guy because he’s got balls and will stand up for his rights. I hope he does this everyday and then it will catch on and everyone who wants to open carry will do so. The cops told this guy that some people were afraid, I say to F******* bad, get a life and leave me alone. We all know that Adam is trying to prove a point because he was denied a CCW permit, and he has every right to do what he’s doing. Now if they had given him his permit they most likely wouldn’t have to deal with this, but they started it and Adam is intent on finishing it. I hope all the gun haters see this because it will drive them nuts. Reply Kindler and gentler my a$$. This is the real JOE that we know and love! Reply What an embarrassment for the gun rights movement. Reply We tend to use reason, not emotions. Since there is no reasonable reason to be embarrassed, we are not. But if your emotional projection helps you sleep better, whatever it takes. Reply Several problems with your complaint: 1) Who do you mean by “we”? Humans in general (in which case your assertion is incorrect)? Or open-carry zealots (for whom no one’s safety or comfort seems to be as important as their exhibitionism)? 2) If you are unable to find something embarrassing or troubling in the events and audio captured on that video, your critical-thinking faculties are not operating in the same manner that a reasonable person’s does. People who go looking for attention and confrontations are an embarrassment. Reply Several problems with your complaint: I’m shocked! 1) Who do you mean by “we”? Humans in general (in which case your assertion is incorrect)? Or open-carry zealots (for whom no one’s safety or comfort seems to be as important as their exhibitionism)? Or, and dang this is going to mess up your logical fallacy and all, I think I will have to chose option C. C – “we” as in those who believe in the constitution of this great land, including it’s amendments and the rights therein. Oh, and cars are hundreds times more deadly than guns, so do you drive? I did a quick search, found no one using your handle or Carnutmegger (just incase) on any forums protesting people exhibitionism themselves by driving around thus making the rest of us less safe and comfortable. Oh, and you might want to find out how many people a day toilets kill, actually you better not, would hate for you to have to give exhibitioning yourself on that throne up. 2) If you are unable to find something embarrassing or troubling in the events and audio captured on that video, your critical-thinking faculties are not operating in the same manner that a reasonable person’s does. Nice strawman, I will give you this, at least you try to branch out and use logical fallacies other than ad hominem. That is refreshing from the gun control side of the fence. If only you guys figured out actual logic, we might loose our guns. Or more likely you would switch sides. Yah, I never said that. In fact there was plenty in there to be embarrassed about. I am embarrassed for our whole nation that the first cop didn’t know the laws and/or wanted to harass a citizen who was doing nothing illegal. I am embarrassed that the second cop made it clear that harassing the law abiding citizen was going to continue until he is willing to give up his legal rights. People who go looking for attention and confrontations are an embarrassment. People who run crying to the authority because someone else is doing something legal that they don’t like are an embarrassment. So are people who want to see our constitutional rights taken away, just saying. Environmentalists chain themselves to trees, this guy hangs a sling around his neck. All in all just another protester. Lucky he was in Texas. Most other states the cops could have dragged him in for “wire tapping” because he was making a video recording of their conversation. Reply Umm, that is not Houston. The really large piles of snow and short temperature discussion should have been a clue. It is Michigan, which most likely also explains why he is having a hard time getting a ccp. Reply OK, I get the point, he is pissed about being denied his concealed carry permit. But, a guy goes out open carrying because he can, And in the process freaks out half the people who drive by (we know statistically about half the folks don’t own guns). The cops get called and it would be criminal if they don’t check out the guy carrying the AK down a main road in town. How many times has a criminal, mad man, deranged lunatic or any other crazy, gone and shot up some place at random? It happens all the time! The police have a duty to check him out. Put yourself in the officers position for a second. These guys go to work every day, deal with the worst of the worst and are expected to keep their cool. Why would you antagonize these brave men and women. It is irresponsible and foolish at best. I am teach my children to act more responsible than this fool. He is an embarrassment! Reply OK, I get the point, he is pissed about being denied his concealed carry permit. But, a guy goes out open carrying because he can, And in the process freaks out half the people who drive by (we know statistically about half the folks don’t own guns). Shows quite nicely the stupidity of permits. Reply Patriot, You seem to not understand that a concealed carry permit holder has been verified a non criminal by the issuing department. I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Should anyone be allowed to conceal their weapon? Or are you trying to make a point that any common criminal will disobey any law? Please enlighten me. Reply “What Could Possibly Go Wrong” Evidently, nothing. Reply Sure, open carry is legal there. Open carrying an AK is like knocking on a door with a sledgehammer. You may not be endangering anyone, or have any bad intentions, but it is easily misinterpreted, and might have negative consequences. Walking down the street with an M70 is not “normal” behavior. He obviously knew the kind of emotions the AK would illicit by the many sheeple. It’s too much, too fast. I’m not trying to say that is the way it should be, but baby steps would probably go further. I feel it was in bad taste. He’s not doing anything wrong, but he just isn’t representing the image I would like to see associated with 2nd Ammendment supporters. Reply What a sexist. (And foul mouth… shows a limited vocabulary.) Yes, he’s allowed to carry his rifle like that. Yes, it’s legal. No, I don’t think he went out looking for a confrontation, but like many other open carriers he’s learned to expect it & takes measures to protect himself from illegal actions, from other citizens or from the police. Why does he turn around, go back & talk to them? Don’t talk to cops. Officer says: “There’s a place & a time for all this” Honestly? The place is the USA, & the time is whenever I want to exercise my right. Just like gathering with friends, just like worshipping, just like writing my elected representatives, etc. Officer says: “I know the law too” Then why are you breaking it? Why are you trying to demand ID, why are you harassing a citizen exercising his rights? How about educating the citizens who object to the law, or to the peaceful exercise of protected rights? Listen to the first part of this, showing how well they handled a “MWAG” call: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ8795iZk-0 “I’m not going to go publicize it so we have more people open carrying” Gee, you don’t want people to exercise their rights? “We’re going to show up every time” How about driving past, seeing that he’s peacefully exercising his rights, and driving away? How about videos showing interaction with other people in normal situations, showing that other people aren’t afraid & don’t run screaming in terror? Like these: At a restaurant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGmhbfqtfbA At a bank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKxYSczw_94 Those 2 are the longest. At a grocery : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMXBaDKUdGg And 2 from a home-improvement store: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDj0TnKx0UQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPeZS2_RA_Q (Yes, that’s me in/making all of them.) Reply bottom line is that it is his right to open carry, if he wants to open carry an ak then let him! he’s not doing anything wrong. I open carry a .40 carbine in calfironia and people look at me like if im insane but it doesnt stop me! after a couple of times people got use to it and now its not a big deal. as long as were responsible I dont see anything wrong with open carrying a hand gun or a rifle. Reply He is not an embarassment to the gun rights movement. He is stating that he was denied a CCW, so he carries openly. Maybe the sheriff should take another look at his application and issue the CCW that was denied. Reply LEAVE A REPLY Cancel reply Please enter your comment! Please enter your name here You have entered an incorrect email address! Please enter your email address here Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.