By James England via concealednation.org
Getting teachers comfortable with guns in the classroom has traditionally been an uphill battle. With most schools being designated “gun free zones” by state legislatures, it’s difficult to have a fast response system in place in the event of an active shooter. The Utah Shooting Sports Council is trying to change all that by offering teachers in South Jordan a free concealed carry training course . . .
According to the Deseret News, teachers who undertake the course will be allowed to apply for their concealed carry permit for only $49 versus the usual additional cost of having to pay for training privately. Utah is a state that requires applicants to have undergone an approved training course prior to application.
In the words of Clark Aposhian, one of the instructors in the course, he feels that this type of training makes it more dangerous for potential gunmen to attack without resistance.
“A shooter who wants to end his life via suicide but take a whole bunch of other people with him, probably wants to pick a place to exact that evil plan without getting return fire,” Clark Aposhian said. “We are hoping to show that Utah schools and universities are not a place to do that.”
Teachers enthusiastically attended the course — some immediately seeing the need that it fulfills and hoping to make full use of that training.
“Crises happen,” Salt Lake County elementary teacher Janette said. “It’s one thing to hide and be quiet, but there are times when people break into those classrooms, and if you have a gun, you’re more likely to be able to handle that at the same level as the shooter than if you are just covered by chairs.”
And, of course, there are the opponents who argue that teachers already have too much on their plate. Retired elementary educator Malinda Lund said, “they just aren’t equipped to handle firearms.”
Is it better to have trained and armed teachers ready to respond? Or should they just wait until a gunman arrives and stack chairs against the door?
Only a Fudd would even ask the question.
It isn’t perfect but sometimes my state makes me proud. There are lots of people in Utah that want armed teachers even if the left run media outlets(most local ones are left leaning too) would have you think everybody hates the idea.
This is why I love Utah. We have laws that prohibit public schools from prohibiting concealed carry.
Now if we can just get cc everywhere except the courtroom. If a business asks you to leave then alright but this no guns thing is dumb. It makes it hard to obey the law and keep yourself protected.
Why not the courtroom? Why should there be ANY special carveouts?
Why not? Escape attempts. Revenge by victims families. Revenge by convicted hoodlums buddies.
I don’t have a problem with no guns in courthouses if they have stringent enough security and a locker to store your gat. I sure wouldn’t want to walk outside the courthouse doors without being armed with all the criminals congregating there.
Soccerchainsaw – Doom and gloom predictions again. Blood in the streets and road rage gone wild. I don’t see why the carrying of firearms by law abiding citizens in a courtroom is any different from any other place.
I don’t see any good reason besides beggars can’t be choosers. Right now I can’t carry into a post office so I would gladly take anywhere but a courtroom. Would the “shall not be infringed” application be more to me liking? Certainly but I’ll take a step in the right direction for now. It would sure beat a step in the wrong direction like most commie states see often enough.
Whether or not it’s a carveout? But I’m not aware of any time from pre 1776 to now where unofficial weapons were tolerated in court rooms.
I’d be glad to be corrected if I’m wrong.
Except…….those aren’t merely predictions. They’ve actually happened before. Even now, with courthouse carry banned, we see courthouses serve as the site of mass shootings. It’s not because they’re so-called gun free zones, but because all of their personal victims are conveniently corralled in one place.
Even without guns, courtrooms are a place where even normal, everyday people can find themselves in such a desperate, intense and high pressure environment that they turn violent. I’m ok with banning guns in courthouses, providing that strict security is in place and everyone is checked. I’d expect only federal coutlrthouses and big city state courthouses could justify the expense of such comphrehensive security. So only those could ban guns.
What about prisons?
Here’s the thing, if you’re going to designate a gun free zone, then you need to provide armed security that will search everyone thoroughly, provide continuous protection while in the environment, and a gun check system where I can secure my gun on the way in and get it back on my way out.
From what I remember, the King County Courthouses meet these conditions.
Deciding for yourself that you aren’t “equipped” is one thing. Making that decision for others is criminal. I’d like it if more people were honest about their shortcomings. At the same time I’d also like it if people would stop trying to drag everyone around them down to their level.
“they just aren’t equipped to handle firearms.”
Isn’t this why they are offering free training? Or do they think they are too dumb for this, and if so, what are they doing teaching kids?
I think it’s the latter…
Retired elementary educator Malinda Lund said, “they just aren’t equipped to handle firearms.”
As a former student of the American educational system, I encountered plenty of teachers capable of handling firearms. Then again, my schooling was in the Rockies and the Pacific Northwest where, apparently, they don’t spay or neuter all teachers.
When I settled here (Utah), after retiring from the USAF, I didn’t understand the concept of true freedom. I now enjoy what our founders meant by “Shall not be infringed.”
I find it sickening that after a career in the Air Force, you didn’t have an idea of actual freedom. I’m not trying to criticize or flame you Ed, it’s just that all that time “serving and protecting freedoms” you would think that knowing what you where protecting should be a major focus all up and down the chain of command.
Utah’s alcohol laws are an epic fail in terms of freedom.
Alcohol, tobacco, firearms and taxes are the big four indicators of freedom in my book. I don’t even smoke and I infrequently drink, but that’s not the point. Look at how a state stacks up in its approach to these four issues, and you’ll have an extremely accurate assessment of its overall tolerance of freedom.
Question from an Aussie: With those four things in mind, which states would you consider most free?
Of course down here it’s bad, bad, bad and worse. Might look at migration if it gets to 4x worse.
This can’t be true. The TV told me that guns are bad and make children spontaneously combust if they find out one is nearby. Just more republican lies… [/sarc]
I know it’s a movie, but in Saving Private Ryan, wasn’t Tom Hank’s character a teacher prior to the war? People will do what they need to do if they have the proper training. A good teacher, in my opinion, will protect their students almost as vigorously as a parent would. There’s a connection and a responsibility there. Giving these teachers the training, if they desire it, will make their task of protecting their kids, both blood and students, much more successful.
Now just to get UT to waive the $49 fee for teachers [first]…
“Do it for the children!”
Retired elementary educator Malinda Lund said, “they just aren’t equipped to handle firearms.”
If only there were some way for a person to acquire new knowledge or skills.
That is exactly what my local school board said when presented with the opportunity to allow armed defenders in school. Under Georgia law, a school board can authorize anyone to carry a gun, as long as they are trained. I presented different ways that training could be cheaply accomplished so that my son’s school might have some hope against a violent intruder. The reply at the end of my presentation from the school board chair: “We just don’t think we should have untrained teachers with guns.” It was one of the most infuriating things I have ever heard.
Teacher gives active shooter +P grade, He should have brought an apple instead of a gun……..Headlines in a 2A Utopia
I love that picture. I hope someone sends it to Shannon!
Anyone can learn self-defense skills, even a bunch of schoolteachers. But will they fight? The teachers will need more than training and guns. They will need the will to fight, and I think that some of them (not all of them) just don’t have it and never will. So, that leaves it up to the select few to defend the rest. Same as it ever was.
I don’t think you understand how protective most teachers are with the children under their care and children in general. They will sacrifice themselves if it will save the children. They treat the children as theirs when they are in their care.
We’ve all seen plenty of examples of teachers with extraordinary feelings for the children. It’s oftentimes felonious.
Let’s not mythologize teachers into super caring mama bears protecting their young. Some might be, and those might be good self-selected choices to carry on campus. Most are just there for the steady paycheck and an easy job. Let them carry, too, I say, but let’s not extol the unproven heroism of teachers who are only employed because their product is mandatory and funding it is compulsory.
My guess is that a typical Utah school teacher has more willingness to fight than the typical urban liberal school teacher on the upper east coast.
My sister and brother-in-law are both school teachers. My sister would sacrifice herself for her students. My brother-in-law, whose gun collection is far more extensive than mine, would provide ballistic resistance to any threat if he were allowed the opportunity.
Ralph, I retired from a custodian position at a public school system in CA. Most school staff, not just teachers, will put themselves between the kids and danger.
And the teachers that are actually seeking out the training probably have what it takes to fight to protect “their” kids.
What we need is pols and unions with the balls to get out of the staffs way and let them have the needed gear to fight with.
As a CA public school employee I had two options. Run. Not an option if it meant the kids took the hit. Or face a gunman with an improvised weapon.
I was lucky to get in my time without having to face that moment.
Having an effective tool with which to fight, and a little training in how to effectively use that tool, will often affect a person’s willingness to put up a fight rather than cower or run.
Yes, teachers and particularly women teachers are just far too fragile and simple minded to understand how to operate a firearm effectively……
And we’re the ones who are sexist pigs? Got it.
If they have hands, fingers, and eyes, and a pair of pants (which I certainly hope they do while teaching school) then they are perfectly equipped to carry and use a gun in self defense.
Have to say that I’m really glad I live in a state like UT. I for one knew that a good majority of my high school teachers carried in school. Heck I had a teacher come to me to ask for advice about CCW permits (I really liked that teacher, cool guy.) can’t say I ever felt in danger at school….but wait guns are inherently dangerous….freaking liberals.
I am a former cop and pretty conservative. However, this is a bad idea. It’s not just training in how to use a gun that gives one the ability to use it when necessary. While cops are screened at the academy to determine if they will be morally able to shoot someone if necessary, teachers are not. I believe that most teachers are too nice and lack the intestinal fortitude that it takes to shoot someone. I believe they would take that critical second to think about it and have their gun shoved where the sun doesn’t shine.
See my reply to Ralph, above. Teachers will and have fought for “their” kids. It’s time we stop requiring them to fight bare handed against rifles and shotguns.
Former cop and “pretty conservative” is judging a mass of people by a perceived lack of ability? Hmm yeah sounds like the type of “pretty conservative” cop that thinks a hunch is worth stepping over the 4th ammendment…
“. . . I believe that most teachers are too nice and lack the intestinal fortitude that it takes to shoot someone. . .”
Speaking as a former teacher, the “most” teachers you mention will most likely self select-out of any armed teacher training program. In my 40+ years of teaching at all levels of American education, I came across many teachers who, not only possessed shooting skills, but had faced death in combat. They were great in the classroom but, armed, would have been hell-on-wheels to any spree killer that came to their school. Similarly, there were many other teachers without military or police experience who were perfectly willing to defend themselves and their students if necessary. We’re talking about giving people a fighting chance versus no chance at all so police training analogies really don’t apply. Not all teachers match their stereotypes. My last department chair regularly carried a Glock 19 concealed in a bottom compartment of her purse. She was a good shot, too.
What does “morally” equipped to shoot someone even mean?
If these teachers are seeking out training, practicing, carrying, and preparing for the next nut job, are they not morally ready?
And “Shoved where the sun don’t shine?”
That’s a classic “anti” line…. That it’s more likely that a criminal will disarm you of your own gun and shoot you with it.
These cowardly school shooters choose this location because they know they won’t face armed resistance immediately. In fact, many run and commit suicide once they hear the sirens coming. I don’t see them rushing an armed defender and disarming them.
If Utah passed this in loadet form it s near perfect.
LOL – just going to school is dangerous…all these kids on this new age dope and crazy ideas pumped into their soft heads 24/7
Utah has approved concealed carry in public schools in 1996 for anyone with a teaching certificate and a CCW permit. Last school murder in Utah… wait for it… 1995. I do not count the school suicide (student offed himself in front of a class) and the parking lot murder of a teacher by her soon to be ex mother-in-law in a school parking lot since their were no direct threats to students. Now Utah colleges are a different matter.