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Raymond Panton (courtesy evening

You may recall our December, 2015 story UK Farmer Faces Five Years in Jail for Homemade Self-Defense Shotguns. According to Scotland’s, “Raymond Panton was imprisoned [for two years] despite a judge holding that exceptional circumstances existed in the case. Panton, 54, was earlier convicted of possessing prohibited weapons, two improvised shotguns, without authority at Parkhill Stores, Greens, New Deer, between April 4 and August 15 in 2014.” It’s important to note that Mr. Panton was not convicted of doing anything illegal with his improvised shotguns. This is the slippery slope upon which U.S. gun control would place their fellow Americans. Here are some more deets on the sentence . . .

Panton claimed to police that he had discovered two metal tubes in a bedroom at the farm and after looking at them realised that if slotted together shotgun cartridges could be fired.

Defence counsel David Moggach said Panton had phoned the police and co-operated as to where they might find a second weapon.

Mr Moggach said Panton had struggled with “mental health issues” but had been assessed as currently posing a low risk.

Lord Bannatyne said: “This all resulted from him bringing the police to his house and showing them the gun. If, for no other reason, the case was incredibly odd.”

I don’t think that word means what Lord Bannatyne thinks it means.

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  1. This is why no Demokkkrat can be allowed in the White House ever again. I’d vote for Hitler on a GOP ticket again before if vote for any Demokkkrat. If you think elections don’t matter, look at the assault we’ve been under with eight years of Obama.

    • What if the Republican behaves so badly (as I suspect Trump would) that independents who might have been persuadable decide the Republicans suck and can’t govern, and thus hands the Democrats a decades-long majority in which to complete their progressive dismantling of America?

      I’d almost rather have an honest socialist in the White House and a Republican congress than another opportunistic narcissist-in-chief. (Almost…it’s the Supreme Court appointments that give me pause.)

      • You’re making a lot of assumptions based on anti-Trump propaganda. In the real world, his positions generally make sense and are quite feasible.

        1. You can exclude muslims from immigrating into the US. The president already has the authority to do that under existing law. He can deny entry to anybody for any reason.

        2. We can get Mexico, in effect, pay for the wall. Just tax the piss out of all wire transfers to Mexico. Given that Mexico made more money from remittances last year than from oil, that’s a huge chunk of change. Building it is similarly simple. That’s what combat engineers do for a living. With a few battalions it could be done in a month. Double wall with a minefield in the middle.

        Are there any other Trump policy positions I can explain for you?

        Being bombastic is not a flaw in a leader. Nor is being a successful businessman.

        As for the pendulum swinging the other way… Just wait until the next Demokkkrat president amnesties every illegal in the country, gives them citizenship, and ships in a few million more.

        • “2. We can get Mexico, in effect, pay for the wall. Just tax the piss out of all wire transfers to Mexico.”

          That’s a *very* interesting idea, considering the flood of money going down there…

        • If anybody had bothered to read it, that was IN his position paper on the subject. Trump is not nearly as bafoonish as the MSM would have you believe. He has some genuinely good ideas, or is getting very good policy advice. Either way, we win.

          Plus it will be like sticking a shiny new ICB down the throat of every SJW. Sideways.

        • Taxing wire transfers sounds like a great idea, until you think it through and realize that, if the tax is very large, people will just find other, less traceable ways to send money. That’s the thing about taxes – if they’re small, people will tend to pay them. If they’re large, people will find ways around it.

        • Stinkeye. We’re talking about remitances. They are, by their nature, small. It’s basically welfare money flowing through (mostly) illegals back into Mexico.

        • Taxing wire transfers will get him attacked by every big bank in the USA, Wells Fargo being among the leaders. They make millions in fees for handing those transfers. Not to mention the $$ deposits they take from illegals without proper ID. (If I open a bank account, I have to submit a VALID social security number. But this is easily circumvented, if the bank wants to.)

        • Anti-Trump propaganda? Really?

          The guy has been in the public eye for what, 30 years? I don’t care what the GOP-e, the press, the Democrats, or Trump’s own followers think, I’m making my own judgments based on what I’ve seen from him over all that time.

          Look at what he’s actually done over his long career as a celebrity businessman — that’s the real Trump. What’s that guy going to do in the White House? Promising to build a wall is fine, but there’s a hell of a lot more to being president than that. What does his long public history say about his principles? Does he even have any?

  2. Two years for two makeshift shotguns? Damn. If I lived in England when I was a kid, I’d still be doing life.

    • Yea, according to the story one of them wasn’t even a gun, it was only stuff that could have been put together as a gun.

      By this logic the Home Depot is really a militia armory.

      Hey British subjects; That’s some stupid sh1t you bunch of wankers.

      • Two pieces of metal that could be put together to form a gun.

        Not just England … Consider what the laws are here concerning lightning links.

  3. No sympathy man here.

    As a former subject of the British and now a citizen of these United States.

    Screw England. The British. AND ESPECIALLY THE CROWN AND IT’S QUEEN.

    This is what it means to be a subject.
    If they had any real gumption about them, they would have thrown off their shackles and become free, along time ago.
    No, they love their queeny mum.And as such, they should get treated like little children all of their lives.

    No sympathy from me. Go to jail like a good Englishman.

    • Meanwhile in the USA… Yesterday I walked into a pawnshop, spotted a good deal on a Norinco SKS, and walked out with it ten minutes later. I’ve been wanting one of those for a while. I already had a Mosin and an AK, but lacked Mr Simonov’s rifle.

  4. I’d say he is struggling with mental health issues if he called the British pd to tell them about a gun in his possession. But hey, two years in the lockup and he’ll still be no worse off for gun rights when he gets out.

  5. “I don’t think that word means what Lord Bannatyne thinks it means.”

    Apparently I don’t either because the whole thing seems quite odd to me as well.

  6. Englands Lion is a hunted creature. It’s hunted by illiterate men, contempt for the rule of law, and a national character more willing to snoop on there neighbors than stand up for common decency. God help the remnants of a once good place in this world.

  7. And American ranchers get more time than that for an out of control brush fire. Western civilization has become a police state.

    • That is similar to a story about 2 guys who are ranchers in Oregon who had a similar thing happen, except their fire damaged public property, and at trial it was shown to be intentional and with malice, thus arson.

  8. Well, if you’re going to get prison time for having an unreliable makeshift gun in your house, you’d might as well have the real McCoy!

    In that way I guess some governments just beg for their subjects to be criminals, and eventually it is inevitable that the smart ones will be.


  9. The United Kingdom. It’s greatness long in the past. Today it serves as warning to the US of a possible future if we reject individual freedom and accept statism.

    • England, Britain, and the U.K. or whatever how the association of crowns and peons wants to be known….was never great.

      They were and are a caste system, based on supposed birthright. They warred, established garrisons, taxed people into oblivion and they spilt blood in the name of everything all for the crown.

      If the U.K. was ever great, that means America is in its prime right now, for doing very similar things.

    • Hi Dean,

      If you think about it, this story could just as easily be about the US…

      The story is, farmer jailed for two years for possession of illegal shotguns.

      The story is not “loads of people not jailed for possession of legal shotguns”.

      I mean, fine, the definition of what weapons are / are not illegal in the UK differs to the US. However you could just as easily see a story in the US press saying “rancher jailed for possession of illegal full-auto rifle”.

      The reasons – there are two – that this story is newsworthy are:

      (1) guns are relatively uncommon in the UK, and the anti-gun agenda means that anything related to illegal guns / use of guns in crime gets disproportionate prominence; and

      (2) the actual facts in this case seem pretty weird, if the guy actually told the Police he had found a weapon and requested their attendance.

      But as I say, I think it’s a bit harsh to knock any country on the basis of a news story that says, in effect, “person does illegal thing and gets in trouble for it”. Because on that basis one could just as easily beat up on the USA for enforcing its own laws.

      • I understand where you are coming from and about half of the people in the US agree with you. I am not part of that half.

  10. By the way, TTAG staff, I know you guys run comparison stories for, well, reasons. But British Subjects (yes I am well aware they now, erroneously, call themselves British Citizens but they are not, as the rule set that applies is still pre 1982) are not citizens.

    A citizen is a free person, not subject to royalty. And such, a subject is not allowed to make the decisions we should be allowed to make for ourselves.

    So, a subject, must and will submit to its crown or its agents. We, way over here, should never be in position to be treated as such, because, we are, supposedly, free.

  11. At this point would it not be easier to just take Mexico and stop arguing about it? At least we woukd have the natural resources to recoupe some of the losses.

  12. This is a great modern day example why we separated from the UK. All the former UK possessions have no or very limited guns allowances. They have no gun rights.

  13. Custodian says:
    British Citizens but they are not, as the rule set that applies is still pre 1982) are not citizens.
    A citizen is a free person, not subject to royalty. And such, a subject is not allowed to make the decisions we should be allowed to make for ourselves.
    So, a subject, must and will submit to its crown or its agents. We, way over here, should never be in position to be treated as such, because, we are, supposedly, free.

    I’m not sure we are citizens in the US. I have to ask to do a lot of things. People get prosecuted for not asking permission.

  14. Some pigs are more equal than others.

    When all guns are illegal, only your criminal government will have guns and oppress you.

    Not to offend the gentry, but it don’t make an F what dirt you hit when you fell out of your mamma. We are all people/persons stuck here on this rock. None of us are (yet) governed by robots or aliens, we all have things needing doing so we agree to have a government. We all have a-hole neighbors that need jobs and they go work for the government. DON’T LET YOUR A-HOLE NEIGHBORS OPPRESS YOU.

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