That’s Chris from his YouTube vlog Chrisandqueen. Check out his shooting pal below. [Full video below]. While Chris and his BFF’s failure to keep their firearms pointed in a safe direction seems clearly irresponsible, it’s their first time shooting. Which begs the question: is their irresponsibility actually the gun range’s responsibilty?
A prominent local gun range here in Austin — which this isn’t — gets a lot of new shooters. The guy behind the counter goes through the safety basics, explains the firearms’ operation to the newbie and then sets them loose on the range. The RSO isn’t given a heads-up. Not to put too fine a point on it, that’s some crazy dangerous sh*t.
So back to the video . . .
Same deal here: no supervision for a newbie. No RSO to make sure Chris knows WTF he’s doing. No RSO jumping in and reading him the Four Rules of Gun Safety riot act. That’s completely irresponsible. Yes?
its also incumbent on the guys pals.
Yes, if they did that stuff at my range the rso would give them a safety brief and/or a warning.
I go to an outdoor range. It costs two dollars to shoot till you run out of ammo or the sun sets. There are four ranges with a handful of lanes each. A handgun range, 100 yard rifle, long range rifle not sure the distance, and shotgun range. There is one range attendant. There is no way he can be everyone’s baby sitter. It’s just too spread out.
I’ve been to a local indoor range a couple times it has AC and is close. They are on the ball. I almost walked in without hearing Protection once and the guy was on me like white on rice. I still thank him for that.
Federal government should fund the states to provide training to citizens. That being said, I now see why most ranges ban cameras. Has a lot to do with the fact cameras make people stupid. Also if I was they guy in the other stall, I think a reckless engagement suit is in order. And it is not that hard to find out how to safely use a gun at the range. I think they know how to use youtube
Interested citizens can obtain quality, inexpensive firearms training from multiple sources already, including gun ranges, shooting clubs, and independent trainers. No need to go creating new freebies on the taxpayer’s dime.
No need for libraries, you can get books from multiple sources already, including book stores and Amazon. No need to go creating new freebies on the taxpayer’s dime.
I’m also sure you can find people who are willing to teach you how to read and do math, as well as provide drivers education for high school kids.
We have to ask ourselves if we really cherish the right to bear arms, and if we do, what can we do to promote it.
Most libraries ARE PRIVATE, funded by citizens, some assisted by taxes approved by local govts.
You want MORE TAXES for the Feds to supervise gun training and ranges?
How’s PUBLIC EDUMACSHUN (sic) been working out for America? How’s the POST OFFICE? AMTRAK?
Get a clue, pal. “I’m from the govt and I’m here to help” is the RED FLAG OF WARNING.
If we’re stuck with federal education standards, they ought to include firearms safety, how to balance a checkbook, the dangers of debt, how to negotiate a deal, how to manage people, how to start and run a business, and a lot of other skills people can use to succeed (and protect themselves) in the real world. Unfortunately, that instruction goes against the best interests of government, so they actively discourage this teaching…
People, such as those in the video, will not go to a safety class, much less, one they have to pay for.
Nope, you are responsible for your own safety. It’s part of being an adult.
Check the pics: There is an opaque wall between the offender and the person he’s pointing his gun at. How is that person supposed to know he’s in danger? If that were you, what could you do, without knowing what was happening?
Platitudes are nice, but reality is real.
Oh I see the wall, and I also see two grown men acting like children with a video camera inside a range. What I would have done, wall or not, was leave.
You know walking in to that range that someone is handling a gun. You know they may have no idea how to handle a gun. You know there is a wall between you and that they could be pointing that gun at you at any time. If you choose to stay, knowing that an untrained person may very well be pointing a loaded gun at you at any time without your knowledge, that’s on you, not the range.
Again, it is not someone else’s responsibility to keep you safe.
“What I would have done, wall or not, was leave.”
I don’t know how you would have known to leave.
If, as you go on to say, an untrained person in the range would cause you to leave, where else would you go? Do you have a range you are a member of that only caters to experienced shooters?
My point is simply this: how do you know what’s going on until it goes on?
No one else is responsible for your safety? I like it.
Would you agree that principle applies to a retail establishment whose proprietor posts a legally binding “no guns” sign, but whose shop you nonetheless freely choose to visit?
The whole “No one else is responsible for your safety” is BS. You are responsible for not putting others at risk by your actions.
You must leave a lot of places.
You know what else gives a false sense of security? the double yellow line on the road. You have absolutely no idea whether the oncoming driver is drunk, so how are you supposed to know you’re in danger?
Platitudes are nice, but but reality is real. Shooting is an inherently risky activity. If you can’t come to terms with that risk, maybe you shouldn’t be shooting.
Shooting is NOT an inherently risky activity. Just like driving. However, if people don’t know the rules it becomes one in both cases. There is a big sign with the range rules to the right. Literacy or failing to read them is not a excuse.
If I saw them acting incorrectly, I would leave and demand a refund (I have done this before). It is not my responsibility to keep an eye on them.
“If you can’t come to terms with that risk, maybe you shouldn’t be shooting.”
You seem to be forgetting that it’s you who is telling us you can see danger when you can’t see it.
I know about yellow lines on roads. I accept the danger because I it’s an acceptable risk. It’s you who is saying any risk, even one you can’t see, is unacceptable. Your idea that only you can keep you safe ignore all reality. How do you keep yourself safe from an unseen risk? Do you drive? If so, you acceptr some risk as acceptable. You simply can’t walk away from all risk, as you say you do.
If the partitions separating the shooting lanes are not ballistic, they need to be. I’ve been shooting for 45 years, the first 30 on law enforcement ranges. I am completely uncomfortable at civilian ranges, especially indoor ranges for exactly the same dangerous behaviors shown in the video – ‘sweeping’ others with a firearm due to ignorance, or carelessness or lack of training. I’ve been swept a number of times and am reluctant to place myself and my loved ones at risk due to the inadequacy of some along the firing line. Living in a high density area the choices of firing ranges is limited. What used to be a pleasurable experience is now an exercise in chance…..
Glad to see he took to time to color fill the logos in the gun.
If the old, WHITE Range Safety Officer were to lecture young, BLACK kids, I’m sure Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be down there with a rental mob faster than you can say “Hands up, don’t shoot.”
Yeah at all range we have cameras and an RSO that lets the upper management inside keep an eye on what’s going on in the range and if the RSO gets tied up with a person helping a customer they can come in going on at all times and has a recording of it. one of the few ways that you can be everywhere at the same time. unfortunately though this kind of stuff goes on at most ranges. But these people were clearly not instructed on safety protocol and firearm safety before entering a live range being that they never have shot before. I think this if somebody would have been hurt would have been a clear-cut lawsuit against this gun range.
All of the ranges I’ve been to, you’d have at least one RSO hopping on that immediately.
The range I use doesn’t have RSO’s – philosophy is ‘everyone is an RSO’. When I bring a new shooter to the range my son and I tag-team mentoring the person until he or she is done shooting.
There have been a few times when an inexperienced shooter appeared to be intending to commit an unsafe act. The others at the range jumped on it – politely but sternly – before it became an issue.
I think there was a little bit of artificiality generated by the video production atmosphere. However these two yoots would have been well served if they brought an experienced mentor with them.
Does anyone know what the lane dividers are normally made from? i.e are they bullet proof?
The two young men also didn’t seem to be wearing seat belts either so they don’t seem to have much of a regard for their safety and well being.
Having said that, it seems to me that the new shooter had no positive role model regarding gun safety when growing up. Most grow up respecting firearms and gun safety and it becomes second nature to keep the gun pointing downrange, finger of trigger etc. In this day and age it seems that the mantra of personal responsibility (i.e learn about safety, range etiquette etc before you go) is dead and instead the focus is on ‘who should be responsible for teaching him’?
My 02 cents worth is that some time should be allocated for firearm safety at elementary/middle school age (yes I know it’s the parents responsibility, but unfortunately too many parents don’t care), I’m sure the NRA would organize some free Eddie Eagle type training if asked nicely!
The ones at my local ranges are bullet resistant- I asked.
“My 02 cents worth is that some time should be allocated for firearm safety at elementary/middle school age “…It used to be so where I grew up. You know, like fire safety, water safety, traffic safety, etc. Sadly, not any more.
I can’t speak for every range but I noted at a range I used to go to that the dividers were made of two layers of .125″ diamond plate steel filled with about 2″ of gravel and sand. I know that because someone blew a hole in one and I could see the guts.
The bullet didn’t exit the other side other divider but I have no idea what they actually shot it with or at what angle or anything like that.
If you’re ever in downtown LA and are considering the LA Gun Club, don’t. They cater to foreign tourists, many of whom have never held a gun, and basically hand them a range gun and tell them to go for it. I saw a “safety briefing” where they basically showed an English bloke and his buddy how to load a magazine and then sent him out to shoot. By the look on the guys’ faces, you could tell they didn’t know anything about anything.
I just went back and looked more closely at the photo and then the video. So the guy turns toward the camera, swinging around and covering the guy in the next lane. That’s bad enough. BUT HE’S GOT HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER! You’re right. Scary sh*t. But, you know what’s really scary? In their stunningly clueless ignorance, they were completely unaware—or completely uncaring—about just how dangerous their behavior actually was. Books have been written about just why this is all too often the case, but the bottom line is that not knowing that you don’t know is deadly. If idiots like that came to my gun range, I’d promptly leave.
At my gun club members discipline one another and if there is any backlash they report the member’s badge number to the BOD for action. I sometimes go to a range in Virginia’s Jefferson National Forest and the lack of range discipline is astounding!
Life is tough… and then someone takes the bit out of your mouth and you are faced with reality. sigh
I think everyone pretty much understands that guns are dangerous. Not too much question which end the lethal projectiles come from. But I’ve seen supposedly well trained people do stupid things. Life is risky.
My gun club range is completely open to members. There is no qualification exam to become a member… If you are an adult, you can join. Aside from organized events, the range has no RSO on duty and there is no other supervision unless you bring it. If you are irresponsible, you pay the consequences all by yourself. If you want to shoot there, you cooperate with the other members or they’ll throw you out. Really simple.
Now the kicker: There have been zero “gun” accidents, no injuries, no wild parties, no bullet holes in the buildings, equipment or anything but the target stands. For nearly 50 years.
You don’t need baby-sitters or nannies.
” If you want to shoot there, you cooperate with the other members or they’ll throw you out.” Sounds like you all are babysitters. And you are NOT a public range. The fact that someone has to get an actual membership weeds out a lot of “let me try shooting” types
That’s rich. 🙂 Most of the time when I shoot, there is NOBODY else there. I don’t need a babysitter, and I have no problem cooperating with other members and their guests. Contemplate voluntary association sometime. You might like it – unless you are the idiot who gets tossed out, of course.
Yes, there are serious benefits to having private property, membership and rational human beings around. Freedom and personal responsibility makes a big difference. Why in the world would I want to shoot at a “public range” with a bunch of idiots?
But whatever… having a safe and sane place to shoot is ultimately each person’s responsibility – whether it is a “public range” or private membership. RSOs are nice. I are one. LOL I’m the chief RSO for the club, and I’ve had darn little to do, which is fine with me. In ten years I’ve only had to remove one unsafe person from an organized shoot. I had plenty of backup… not babysitters. Just responsible adults.
Okay, if there’s usually only one shooter there, no kidding.
The problem and need for babysitters is when ONE shooter is being unsafe and endangering everyone ELSE who may not even be aware of the danger because they’re focused on their own shooting.
My primary range situation is quite similar, outdoor, public (anyone who pays the $3/day of $30/year fee), no RSO. I always sit in the truck and watch for a few minutes to make sure all is ok, if it is not, I leave. Seeing someone take videos is a clear indication to leave and come back later. Regulars and newbies shoot there. The regulars, including myself, don’t mind giving feedback. Usually this is done in a polite and “teaching opportunity” manner and is well received. If it is a younger person, my 19 yr old will take the lead in this. Often it leads to lengthy conversations about various gun/shooting topics and is quite enjoyable on both sides. Occasionally, someone will get butthurt or keeps doing wrong, typically at this pint, someone will pull out something like an AR with a Cookie Cutter brake on it and let go 10-15 rounds quickly from the table next to them; they usually leave. There have been times when I left. If this qualifies as babysitting, it does not bother me a bit; I’ve made friends, met interesting people, taught things, and learned things by doing so.
Ive left gun ranges when I feel unsafe.
Not all have Range Officers or even monitor your actions.
I know Im being contradictory but the range I frequent the most. Has the least interference with my shooting. So if Im practicing rapid fire or double taps in a safe way of course and the guy 2 lanes over is acting like an idiot.
I have left.
I go to an indoor range with cameras. Haven’t asked if dividers are bullet resistant, but, even so, I’m not fully protected if the idiot next to me takes a couple of steps back. So glad the RSO and whoever has camera watch detail are always plugged in. No one is concerned about Sharpton or Jackson, everyone has to obey the rules.
1. A responsible range would have required a new shooter (which the range seemed to know they were) to have some safety and range etiquette training. That is irresponsible
2. Ultimately it is their responsibility to educate themselves. That is irresponsible.
As usual, 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
Also they photographed people in a private setting without permission and posted it.
1. I would not want to shoot at that range.
2. They are idiots.
The local indoor range doesn’t have a range officer, but they do have cctv. When it’s someone’s first time, they fill out a sheet acknowledging the range rules, then one of the staff goes in and tells them exactly what is or is not acceptable. If they have specified it is their first time shooting ever, the get the four rules and basic handgun instruction. They monitor the range closely through the cameras, and will swoop in at the first sign of rule violations. One warning, if it happens again they are sent packing. It seems pretty effective. I’ve only seen one person removed from the range. There have been some morons there, but they all follow the rules.
The range I go to used to have dedicated RSO’s. They would observe, but wouldn’t coach though unless asked, or a serious safety violate was about to occur.
That range now has new ownership. Unfortunately they no longer have RSO’s at all, just cashiers. You go in, pay your money. Go to town.
I’ve taken 14 year olds to the range for the first time that have more sense then these guys…
Lol. 3 years ago, I took my then 12 year old daughter for her first time. She’s the most reverent, respectful and attentive kid I know. It took my wife a full year of my daughter disassembling and cleaning our guns, while always following the rules and gaining an understanding of how they work, before she allowed me to take her. Now at 15, if there’s ever a serious incident in my house where an armed response is required, my daughter assumes the role of overwatch if for some reason I have to leave the house.
No. It is the range’s responsibility to enforce its rules. it is not the responsibility of the range to teach safe firearm handling rules to every customer. (Is that splitting hairs? I don’t think so. The range’s response to rule-breaking is to stop the unsafe behavior, not to teach safe behavior.)
That said, if the range allowed such unsafe practices to take place without addressing the customers, then the range is at fault for not enforcing its rules, and thereby assuming liability for putting its other customers at risk.
I’ve only ever left an indoor range once. Rogers Minnesota, guy turns around off the line and faces the glass (towards the waiting area), levels his AK and looks down the sights. I immediately hit the deck, not knowing him or seeing him before. I peak up a few seconds later and then start pounding on the glass. He was removed from the premises. No one likes being muzzled. Being swept by a rifle is always worse.
The public indoor ranges I frequent, especially when it’s cold outside, seem to be having a surge of Millennial types. The camera and phones are out and they pose…I tune them out pretty much and concentrate on what I’m doing. One Sunday not too long ago, my wife and I are at a range waiting to get a lane. She elbows me and whispers “look” and pointed with her eyes. A group of them… not really paying attention while the range employee is trying to give them a safety briefing and a familiarization of the firearms they rented. Taking pictures every 3 seconds..
Posing with Class III is the cool thing I guess…look at me!
I think “Look at me” defines that entire generation……..just depressing as hell when I think on it.
I have to assume those lane partitions are bulletproof. If they aren’t, why have them?
That way each person has their own space and it is NICE not having the guy next to you hitting you with their brass.
Cuts down a lot on noise, too
In my range we keep safety by mutual control.
The rangemaster can’t be everywhere, but being it a private range, most of us are quite expert and no foul-up is allowed by anyone.
It works quite well. The atmosphere is relaxed, but just because we all know our way around gun safety. New guys are briefed directly by the RSO and then “indirectly” by the others.
Something like that in the video would be impossible because newbies are not allowed to be on their own.
Once proven reliable, you start “fading” away in the list of the old chaps.
But again, all is done in a very constructive way, without aggressiveness and without scaring away people.
In the video, the employees can be heard to call the company “T-Rex” something. A quick internet search shows a “T-Rex Arms” gun range in Belleville, MI. It appears to be where the video was taken.
Most likely a self correcting problem. Just hope they don’t shoot an innocent first.
Sh!t like this is exactly why I’ve quite going to the range Friday thru Sunday. Too many try-out newbies with no clue, no training, and no supervision. It’s even worse when if your range is near a college. The kicker for me was a Saturday morning when a group of four frat boys rented some .45s and took turns on a lane, giggling with every big “bang” they made. When they weren’t up at the line, they were leaning against the back wall, guns in hand, fingers on triggers, turning them over and showing them to each other, utterly oblivious that they were muzzling everyone around them.
And the range staff? They were overwhelmed at the counter with the throngs of weekenders piling into the place, and never spared a glance to any of the several CCTV cameras/monitors on which they could have seen all of this taking place. I tried waving at the damned cameras, and even waving at them directly through the windows. Not a look from any of them.
I weighed the option of trying to offer the “bros” some safety pointers, but from observing their manner and mentality, it was pretty clear that one old guy trying to corral four doofuses (doofi?) high on hormones and screwing around with loaded pistols, wouldn’t have much in the way of favorable results. So, recalling the lesson of the Zen master and the kicking horse, I packed up my gear and left, vowing that would be the last weekend I went to that range.
Weekday mornings are so much better. I consider it a side benefit of being in charge of my own time that I can schedule a “meeting” for an hour or two for some “quiet” time making noise.
This kind of stupidity is why I generally don’t go to actual ranges. A friend’s land, places out in the woods or out in the middle of nowhere (but not woods) etc. No overly cranky RSO’s and a distinct lack of people [other than me] doing dumb things.
The ranges I go to have NO range officers or instructors unless one asks for it. Out of 3 I think only one has ccTV. You’re on your own. No excuse for idiocy…
We are on public and private ranges almost every day in the course of our business and sports lives.
The question of supervision and control is valid, but very difficult to answer.
The first problem is the fourth dimension- time. I RO a lot at USPSA matches, where things happen very, very fast and I’m already well-primed for near-instant action. Still, I know there’s nothing I can do even with perfect reflexes, because the bad happens so fast, much faster than even a prescient range officer can react to.
In the public range with unknown situations (“It’s not load.. BANG”) it’s well-nigh impossible to really cover every possibility.
That’s the problem with handguns: things go wrong so quickly it’s really not humanly possible to stop a tragedy in time.
As a former NCO, I did my time as a range-safety (especially after being divorced), making sure knuckleheads didn’t shoot me or anyone else. I’ve thrown guys off the range regularly for far less, and I’d do it in a heartbeat as a civilian RSO as well.
I spent a lot of time at the range on Rampart, above the Springs in CO. It was a public & unsupervised, up until it got shut down by an ND resulting in death (in ’10 IIRC, after I ETS’d). I was not surprised when I heard; over a busy weekend I’d see at least 2-3 incredibly blatant violation of The Rules, almost always by ignorant (or drunk/stoned/tweaking) clowns like those in the video. Normally, if I saw that kind of activity, I’d just leave and come back in an hour. Morons never have more than a few boxes of ammo, or the patience/intention to slow-fire or practice.
Interestingly….. when gangbanger-types occasionally showed up, the majority seemed experienced (read: professional) enough to know The Rules, and they definitely knew better than to do anything which would draw unwanted attention.
The video also illustrates why I don’t go to unsupervised indoor ranges; partitions mean I can’t see what anyone else is doing. Before I step up to a firing line, I watch what other people are doing, and at the line with my peripheral before/after firing. Because of this habit, I’ve often I’ve wasted more range time waiting for idiots to leave than anything else.
Maybe it’s an excessive habit, but I’d rather not risk becoming the star when someone’s 1st-time-shooting YouTube video turns into a 1st-time-shooting-someone LiveLeak video.
I’m a member of an indoor range that gets a lot of newbies. Advertises to them. The RSO is always told and is always on it. This range failed. I’d never go back.
I’m all about second amendment rights, but I agree with some of the others that training needs to be part of owning a gun. Maybe a test like a driver’s license test. I know that’s not a popular idea, but people are pretty stupid, and there needs to be some proof of minimum competency.
Every time I’m with a beginner gun shooter there will be at least one moment when they point the muzzle at me. It doesn’t matter how many times I tell them about being aware of the muzzle always being pointed in a safe direction before we begin shooting.
What other constitutionally protected, natural rights should require training in order to exercise?
Liberty is dangerous, because life is inherently full of risk. That said, the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms presents no particular or unusual risk, as compared to any other exercise of liberty.
With a dozen states having implemented completely unlicensed carry, several other states that have some form of unlicensed carry, and again more states that do not have a training requirement for licensing, if there were evidence that the lack of state-required training was correlated to an oncreased risk of accidental or unlawful firearm discharge/use, the data would be available.
Such data are not available, because no such increased risk exists.
Stop parroting the specious arguments of MDA.
Smh. Absolutely correct. I’ll see a literacy test before voting or speaking in public before I let a competency test come between We the People and our RTKBA. Some of these gun owners do more harm than the gun grabbing, would be confiscating, fascist, Liberal Terrorists™.
I had a couple guys doing almost the same thing at an outdoor range. First time “Excuse me could you keep that weapon pointed downrange”, second time “DOWNRANGE”, third time “if you point that weapon at me again I’m going to stick it up your ass”. Third time worked.