Two Words for Condescending Cavett: Christopher Dorner

Sheriff's deputies stand watch outside jail after a reported sighting of Christopher Dorner. No civilians were shot in the making of this photograph (courtesy

“Yes, Terry, it would take extremely skillful Bushmaster-wielders to hold out for long against that same evil government’s jet bombers, rocket grenades, tear gas, off-shore gunships, heavy-duty cannons and napalm,” Dick Cavett cavils condescendingly on the New York Times’ Doofenshmirtzian opinionator blog. “Not to mention drones. And, of course, its well-trained militia.” Translation: Foolish gun owner, surrender! Resistance is futile. While I’m sure ex-LAPD cop turned executioner Christoper Dorner is a leftist nutcase, his ability to avoid an army of cops and feds is yet another example of how a determined man with a gun is not an anachronism, even in these days of extra-judicial drone death. Oh and Dick: “More on Guns, With Readers”? See what they did there?


  1. avatar Lance says:

    As history of wars in post 1945 world shown guerrillas can escape large army’s with planes trying to spot you! Read on the VietCong they kicked ARVNs (regular Army and air force) butt and got away with it before the US entered in 1965.

    1. avatar Lance says:

      I do like the LA cops AR config the EO tech with a fixed style rear sight is awesome.

      1. avatar Armchair Command'oh says:

        Plus the fact that he is wearing that sling backwards shows that he is a smooth operator.

        1. avatar AlphaGeek says:

          To be fair, Corporal Brylcreem there has probably sat through far more hours of sexual-harassment sensitivity seminars than he’s spent training with that patrol rifle.

        2. avatar Ralph says:

          Put a dress on him and he’d be high drag, low speed.

        3. avatar rcacajun says:

          His sling doesn’t appear backwards. Larry Vickers often advises this carry method.

    2. avatar Jay Dunn says:

      The VC and NVA did pretty damned well after the murderous, drunken tyrant LBJ decided to sacrifice 60k American dead and 400k injured or maimed for life also.

      In case you missed it, google “Operation Frequent Wind”.

    3. avatar In Memphis says:

      “… guerrillas can escape large army’s with planes trying to spot you!”

      I might be thinking Hollywood here but we have subway systems, sewers, etc. I dont think hiding guerilla factions in this country would be incredibly hard if someday there ever were a civil war.

    4. avatar tdiinva says:

      Despite the propaganda the NVA was a regular force as the VC ceased to be an important factor after the failed Tet offensive. According to the NVA commander Gen Giap, they knew they had lost the war in 1968 but for the fact that the US failed to follow up their victory in the South with an invasion of the North. North Vietnam won because of the US rules of engagement. In other words if you are a guerrilla force fighting a a nation that ties its hands then you will win. If you fight Adolf Hitler, Joe Stalin or even Slobadon Milosevic without external support you lose.

      1. avatar Ropingdown says:

        The NVA colonel who accepted the US ceasefire said the same thing about the Laos invasion of 1971, that the north would have had to fold if we’d just held the trail for three more days. But your comparison fails on this issue: It wasn’t the viet minh/cong against the ‘south vietnamese.’ It was the viet cong against the US and south vietnamese. That’s like saying “it was Holland versus Danemark plus Germany.”

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Except for the fact that the Viet Cong ceased being a player after the Tet offense I agree. The fact remains that the US defeated itself, not the North. On this point the NVA commanders agree. One more point, the ARVIN with the support of US airpower defeated the 1972 NVA invasion. The NVA did not recover until 1975.

        2. avatar Ropingdown says:

          The NVA did roll south at a fast pace in ’73.

          I agree about the “we defeated ourselves.” I will never forget the stunned reaction we had when we learned that after five weeks of inserting and resupplying ARVN, we began the process of extracting ARVN from Laos. Bombing the north side of the battle zone intensely would have made more sense, and doubling the close air support. It was bizarre, such loss of life for nada. Holding the trail cut was absolutely doable.

    5. avatar pat says:

      Yup. Libtard statist morons believe their fellow ‘Big Gov’ stooges will eat/sleep where they poop (bomb their own hometowns and countrymen). They also believe that patriots will just sit in their homes to be taken with overwhelming force when the jack booted thugs kick down the door.
      Asymetrical/Guerrilla warfare means you go on Offense and hit them (vandalism, arson, looting, sabotage, assassination, etc….). Not a pretty picture. Lets hope some future leftist ‘Big Gov’ libtard dont get a funny notion (which is the main reason for the 2nd amendment, by the way).

      1. avatar LongPurple says:

        Cavett makes a common, stupid assumption I criticised him for below. To wit:

        “What makes you think you can dictate how a war will be fought?

        You don’t control that. Your enemy is the one who will decide that for you.”

  2. avatar Bob says:

    Hey Dick, how many super-powers have Afghan civilians repelled?

    We’re a hell of a lot better armed then the Afghans. The U.S. government with all their military hardware doesn’t stand a chance against its own citizens.

    When you have civilians fighting for the very land they personally own, their families and community, they’ll fight to the death. What are recruits fighting for?

    1. avatar Anon in CT says:

      And the resistors don’t have to win. They just have to hold out long enough to force the government to escalate to levels of force which cause the majority of soldiers and Marines to say “[email protected] no!”

      Intimidating citizens into line is one thing. Killing your own people in job lots is quite another.

      1. avatar Ropingdown says:

        That rings true. And there’s historical validation. Indeed, with the militarization of police and vast expansion of DHS weapons and personnel, it almost seems the gov’t is starting to discount the military, even distrust it. The policy and ethos splits in the country have been allowed to become far too wide. That is the fault of both parties, but may go to underlying facts which cannot easily be changed?

      2. avatar matt says:

        They just have to hold out long enough to force the government to escalate to levels of force which cause the majority of soldiers and Marines to say “[email protected] no!”

        When has this ever happened?

        1. avatar Ropingdown says:

          Units at a time it has happened many places, during the Russian Revolution, for example (1917-19). Recently something similar happened with many units in Iraq and later Libya. In Egypt it happened, though “preemptively” without great loss of life. It seems to me that it usually isn’t that the unit says ‘no,’ but rather the unit massively deserts until there is no unit left. Disagree?

  3. avatar William says:

    Dick always seemed so melancholy. I had him figured for a suicide long ago. There’s always hope, I guess.

    1. avatar Fyrewerx says:

      Ever since Diana Ross left him.

  4. avatar Daniel Silverman says:

    Well they are going to start using a drone with thermal imaging to try and find him. Also they put up a 1 million dollar reward for Chris. I am going to assume dead or alive.
    But this isn’t a civil war, it is one man, a few guns, how hard could it be?
    Imagine now thousands of patriots declaring war on those who appose them, lets say like in Syria. This guy is an idiot..

    1. avatar Ropingdown says:

      Dick Cavett has always believed that talk shows are the medium of importance, that life is lived from an armchair. The pen isn’t mightier than the sword on a battlefield. He understands nothing about civil violence or the movements of money through the global but unstable economy. Anyone who thinks of the guns as the main event is clueless. They are probably a factor. A bigger factor is that the global payments system (bank clearing) could be brought down in days. Large parts of the power grid, ditto. Commodities flow would stop. The food is not in the eight metropolises which constitute the anti/blue/statist vote. I find talk of civil unrest extremely distasteful, having seen heads on spikes by the village entrances. Back in the days of Vietnam, and again just before the second Gulf War, Cavett was arguing the opposite thesis. I assume his talk is just whistling in the dark.

    2. avatar bontai Joe says:

      How hard could it be? They hunted Eric Rudolph (The centenail Olympic bomber) for 5 years before capturing him. just one guy able to live off the land and hide very well from local, state and federal authorities.

      1. avatar matt says:

        On a side note, Rudolph’s brother was a bad ass, and cut off his own left hand with a radial arm saw to ‘send a message to the FBI and media’

        1. avatar Conway Redding says:

          To me, Eric Rudolphs brother, Danie, sounds more like a fuckin’ idiot than a badass. Now he’s missing a hand and Eric is still and nonetheless in a supermax prison, where he is isolated for twenty-two and a half hours a day in an 80-square-foot cell. Wouldn’t surprise me, Matt, to learn that you consider both the Rudolph boys to be, like Christoper Dorner, American heroes. I consider them to be fruitcakes.

  5. avatar Tim says:

    Dick Cavett is still alive? The marvels of modern medicine.

  6. avatar jwm says:

    Simple non compliance. 80+ million gun owners. Store them and stash them, don’t turn them in. Vote no against all new taxes and levies. Spend your money on 2a supporting companies and let those that don’t support us get their money elsewhere. If pro sports are anti 2a, turn them off and refuse to buy tickets to support them. Do not support hollywood and cancel your cable and satellite. don’t travel by air if at all possible. Cancel your credit cards and pay cash. Shop used stores and swap meets.

    I do all these and more. Think of the ripple effects if just 25% of gun owners would do the same.

  7. avatar duzt says:

    the unedited manifesto from dorner being passed on 4chan.
    seems much more coherent than than the bits and pieces id read elsewhere. and says nothing of supporting obama or gun control

    1. avatar Fred says:

      The “uncensored” version going around a few days ago is 16,852 words long, that 4chan version is 6,022 words long.

    2. avatar cynical bastard says:

      As a Paranoid Conspiracy Nut ™, I can’t help but wonder: what if the anti-gun pro-Obama rant was a fake tacked on to turn “right-wingers” away from Dorner? Hold on, someone’s at the door… oh, shi..!!! 🙂

      1. avatar matt says:

        hush you, you damned well know we cant have critical thinking around here. now go back to believing that the guy running around killing cops with a AR doesnt think we should have them either.

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          I don’t find it puzzling that Dorner doesn’t want “civilians” to have guns. The guys with the guns typically don’t want anyone else to have them.

          “Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I’m a bad guy, I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with a lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins.”

          ― Sammy “the Bull” Gravano

        2. avatar matt says:

          The guys with the guns typically don’t want anyone else to have them.
          You dont want other people to have guns?

  8. avatar In Memphis says:

    Speaking of Dorner but somewhat off subject:

    LAPD Offering $1mil Reward

    1. avatar jwm says:

      I think I saw that LAPD is going to re-open Dorners case from where he got fired. It was a brief mention on the wall mounted tv at the gym. If it’s true, I wonder why?

      1. avatar In Memphis says:

        I can only imagine finding him would be a priority but maybe something in the case could lead to a possible whereabouts? Thats speculation though, Im ignorant to his past issues

      2. avatar Randy Drescher says:

        The official word was that proper procedures were used & they were just going to verify this. They were not doing this to placate Dorner in any way(yeah right). They are holding hands at the donut shop now its so bad, Randy

      3. avatar 16V says:

        Because that’s what you say when your PR guy tells you to.

        They’re also buying a new truck for the two women they tried to assassinate for no reason. Most magnanimous indeed…

    2. avatar Thomas Paine says:

      yeah, i’m afraid we’ll have some Bounty Hunters on his trail, and then more run-ins with the police. bad idea to have a 1mil reward.

    3. avatar Bruce says:

      I didn’t think Calif had a million dollars left.

      1. avatar AlphaGeek says:

        Our state economy sucks a lot less than TTAG conventional wisdom would seem to indicate. We’re within spitting distance of a balanced budget this year.

        There are still a heap of problems to deal with, but that’s always true coming off of a recession. The biggest issue at the state and local gov’t level is retiree pension/healthcare liabilities. Fortunately, there’s some progress on that front, however slow, simply because the cities can’t afford NOT to fix the system.

        1. avatar matt says:

          We’re within spitting distance of a balanced budget this year.

          Does that include making the pension funds solvent? Does it include not increasing the debt load of the state?

  9. avatar LongPurple says:

    MEMO: To Dick Cavett (I don’t ‘do’ Facebook, so I could not post @ NYT)

    What makes you think you can dictate how a war will be fought?

    You don’t control that. Your enemy is the one who will decide that for you.

    It won’t be like WWII with tanks, planes and artillery in pitched battle, or WWI trench warfare, or Revolutionary War massed troops marching onto a field to the sound of fife and drum, then firing in volleys on command.

    Resistance to a domestic tyranny is more likely to take the form of “urban guerrilla” warfare.

    Research Michael Collins and the “12 Apostles” to learn how the military power of Great Britain, after 700 years of “conventional warfare”, was finally defeated.

    Any other thinking is way behind the times.

  10. avatar Rob says:

    Alright, first things first: I hope they put a bullet between the eyes of Mr. Dorner. He’s a murdering lunatic, and he shouldn’t be treated any differently than a rabid dog, and with any luck he’ll do the universe a favor and put a bullet in his mouth, and let his body be reclaimed by nature.

    That being said, yes he has proved several good points:

    1. One man, halfway between crazy and competent, with a gun, can bring one of the nation’s (if not the world’s) largest police forces to near-gridlock.

    2. Gang-bangers throughout the nation are probably watching these events very closely, this event has proven that police agencies aren’t invincible. Prepare to see the likes of the Crips, the Bloods, MS-13 and the like doing similar operations in the future.

    3. This event has shown that the police aren’t indestructible, nor invincible. The body count isn’t the high, what matters more is that this once seemingly strong giant now appears a hellava lot more humble, weak, and meek.

    All it takes is one time to show that a great force can be beaten. Just once. Then every other kid on the block starts to take notice. The same thing happened to the Western Roman Empire towards the end. They started losing a few battles to the northern barbarians, they then found themselves winning battles by the skin of their teeth, they suddenly found themselves on the defensive, then before they knew it, Rome was sacked, Romulus Augustulus was no longer emperor, and a bunch of Goths were in charge.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      I think the Crips, Bloods, Black “P” Stone Rangers, Latin Kings, MS-13, et al have already figured this out. They don’t need some honky on a blog to tell them.

      1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        That’s highly doubtful.

        If the named parties actually thought in larger terms, they would have dropped their internecine warfare, joined forces and they could have basically owned LA.

        1. avatar 16V says:

          They operate multi-nationally, just like corporations. They are merely competing for market share, just like corporations.

          They do basically own their part of LA.

          But true enough, if they joined up, they would eat the LAPD for breakfast.

        2. avatar Ralph says:

          Sometimes it’s difficult to tell the difference between the LA cops and the LA gangs.

      2. avatar tdiinva says:

        Given that the gangs already have free reign and the support of Maxime Waters what would they gain? The gang leaders work hand and hand with the corrupt Democratic Party leadership. The LAPD is there for show, not to enforce the law. The gangs are in business and war is bad for business. I think the gang leaders have figured this out long ago.

    2. avatar Liberty2Alpha says:

      Good points.

      This is what brought us 9/11. The battle of Mogidishu, aka “Blackhawk Down,” inspired OBL that the US was a “Paper Tiger” and introduced us all to Al Qaeda.

  11. avatar Giao Nguyen says:

    Chris Dorner probably passed a psychological examination to go to work for LAPD. That says so much about psychological examinations.

  12. avatar crm114 says:

    Iraq. AK’s and IED’s vs full might of the USA.

  13. avatar ensitu says:

    Dorner is now an offical “Domestic Terrorist”
    I wonder if he does windows?

    1. avatar In Memphis says:

      Nah, no windows. Hes running for POTUS in ’16

      1. avatar matt says:

        Dorner 2013 – Re-elect Nobody bumper stickers:

        1. avatar In Memphis says:

          Haha wow! That is something. I love the “Dont Shoot…” bumper sticker

  14. avatar Leo338 says:

    An idiot with the name of “common sense” from NY (that’s where most of these nut jobs are from) posted this garbage on that article.

    Let’s not talk about a day with guns, let’s talk about a year with 30k murders, accidental deaths and suicides by guns. That doesn’t even count gun injuries.

As a society of evolved human beings (am I making too much a leap here?) we have an obligation to address major causes of death and injury to our population. What else is government for, if not to protect us – even if it means protecting us from ourselves and our neighbors. We did is with cars, food, air travel, drugs…. to name a few.

    What we need to understand is some of these leftists only understand the use of force. Being respectful, polite protest, and attempting to have a debate doesn’t work with them. If we don’t understand this then the entire country will end up like NY and California. Don’t take this the wrong way I am in no way proposing we start anything. I just hope that if things get really bad like the democrats want it to, that the majority of us don’t easily give in to the state and their demands for disarmament. It’s funny, the one branch of government the left hates and wants to defund, is the same one they threaten to use on us.

    1. avatar Randy Drescher says:

      He’s not making enough of a leap, should be, headfirst, off the Sears tower, onto a thumbtack, Randy

    2. avatar Ropingdown says:

      Protect us? The seat belts were for state hospital economy. If NYGuy wants to reduce accidents, cancel the trivia and start focusing on household poisons. And, no, it isn’t “society’s” job to reduce suicide, but now that it’s a metric for PD’s and CDC, “society,” meaning tax-payer funded agencies, will try, and grants of our money will be applied for. I suppose the writer has volunteered to actively work the streets to reduce gang violence? What drivel. “Society” ? There is no such thing as society. There are shared belief systems and behavioral and knowledge cultures. The US has at least six of those, and they don’t agree with each other. Society that.

  15. avatar Rokurota says:

    Finally. My kids’ obsession with Phineas and Ferb pays off!

    1. avatar Rhinotx says:

      Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorparated!

    2. avatar Sid says:

      Exactly! I was happy to see my son’s favorite show mentioned on my favorite website…… now, if only, Agent P can get mentioned….

  16. avatar USP9mm says:

    Actually, GLG is right. You guys are just seriously too right-wing to figure it out. Among all countries, America is QUITE conservative, including the Democratic party. Keep using words like “leftist,” and you’ll surely alienate shooters who are liberal on fiscal/social issues from the pro-2A cause.

    1. avatar gen4n9 says:

      I don’t need a leftist like yourself telling me what language I should use. The leftists are completely destroying everything good about this country, and if that fact alienates leftists, so be it.

    2. avatar TRUTHY says:

      Thank you USP9mm. I am a devout liberal, sans ANY gun control. Cops show up after it’s over, it’s up to me ’til they show up. gen4n9 you are obviously brainwashed by the CONservatives on radio and tv.

      1. avatar Mike says:

        You love using government force and coercion to get from everyone the things that you want, but you oppose them using it to take your guns just because you like them and think they’re fun. You can’t eat your cake and have it to, which you’re going to find out soon enough.

        1. avatar WLCE says:

          you are mistaking statist for liberal.

          believe me, there is a difference.

          try researching john locke for one.

        2. avatar USP9mm says:

          You love making blanket generalizations that have no basis in reality. People are individuals, not just a group that you can stereotype or lop into some schema you learned off a radio talk show. They’re more complicated than blind party lines, which you clearly exhibit when someone like me tries to agree with you on one issue but you rebuke them anyway. Do I need to agree with you on every political issue to support the 2nd amendment? No. That would not be thinking for oneself. Your response is poorly thought out.

    3. avatar Ropingdown says:

      Liberal on social issues? Fine. Liberal on financial issues? Even Sweden has a much lower debt load, a much higher tax load at the lower wage levels, and a more sensible budget. When we are almost 17 trillion in debt with trillion dollar deficits, there is no room for “fiscal” liberals. The money already got spent. It didn’t work. The gangs are still there, worse than ever. The schools (see, e.g., CA and Chicago) are worse. There is even more diabetes and drug-caused organic disease, which we pay for. Liberal isn’t (see J.S.Mill) supposed to mean slacker students, fat people who don’t think it’s about too much food, smokers and alcoholics, gang-bangers and pimps, and a nation of people that won’t, on average, exercise regularly to prevent chronic disease. None of that is particularly “liberal.” I don’t want apologists for that stuff along. I’d rather fight the constitutional issues without people who think money, rather than agreeing to a healthier more self-educating and self-disciplining culture, is the answer.

      1. avatar USP9mm says:

        We can simply agree to disagree. Some liberals make bank on their own (*gasp* how can this be possible?), thanks very much. I make a six figure salary myself, and ironically it was thanks to “self-educating and self-disciplining,” as I have worked hard in obtaining an advanced degree in my field. When you say that “there is no room for fiscal liberals” in a discussion on rallying the cause for 2A, you are entirely missing my point.

        1. avatar Accur81 says:

          Would it be entirely missing the point to say that liberals such as Obama completely suck at balancing the federal budget?

        2. avatar Uhhwtf says:

          Uhh no shit
          Of course you’re missing the point. Wow, unbelievable.

    4. avatar WLCE says:

      USP9mm, youre absolutely correct.

      America is pretty damn conservative say for the rest of the world.
      The only exception I would say are middle east countries and Russia.

      I totally agree. we dont need to alienate other gun owners. after all, its liberal gun owners that can possibly change their ideology’s figureheads when it comes to gun ownership.

      1. avatar 16V says:

        I would say we’re ‘conservative’ compared to some very well-educated and well-healed Euros.

        Otherwise, even though it would appear our sand-cultists have way too much socio-political influence, it really isn’t the case when you start comparing to China and India, just for starters.

        1. avatar Ropingdown says:


  17. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    I actually thought you died of old age back in the 90s, but since it appears you are still breathing, here’s some educational reading for you;

  18. avatar Jim D says:

    Dick Cavett was never relevent sort of like a Jimmy Carter

  19. avatar Aharon says:

    I think what might be even more dangerous to a police state would be the generation born after the fascists come to full power. The next generation would grow up learning how to avoid detection, keep off the tracking grid, and to practice the art of hit and run. A bad government knows I’m a gun owner, have a cc permit, and what searches I’ve done on the Internet and comments made.

  20. avatar WLCE says:

    “Yes, Terry, it would take extremely skillful Bushmaster-wielders to hold out for long against that same evil government’s jet bombers, rocket grenades, tear gas, off-shore gunships, heavy-duty cannons and napalm”

    Hey dumbass, we lost the Iraq and Afghan wars.

    Lets go through some armaments typical of insurgents in those theaters of war,

    AK series
    PPS43 and PPSH41
    Romak 3
    Mosin Nagant series
    Mauser K98 series
    Enfield series
    home made explosives (ammonium nitrate that they handed out to afghan farmers like candy; it came particularly handy alongside those small stoves ubiquitous throughout afghanistan)
    and the few, i mean few, Dshk 12.7mms and Strela MANPADS (ive only heard of ONE captured).

    anything high tech that americans couldnt access? nope. in fact, guns in the hands of americans are far more accurate and effective.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      I see you are engaged in an exercise in counterfactual history.

      The US defeated the Iraq insurgency. There is no arguing that. What has happened is the Obama has effectively switched sides in the Middle East. The US may have abandoned Vietnam in 1972 but this case the Adminstration clearly has come out on the side of the Sunni extremists in the region. Iraq is holding firm despite the upsurge in violence by AQ in Iraq but if AQI manages to break down order the Shia majority will simply go out and massacre the Sunni population.

      I can’t argue victory or defeat in Afghanistan. It was clear by 2008 that we had accomplished all that we were capable of and should have withdrawn and concentrated on getting a SOFA in place in Iraq to sustain the win. However we have an adminstration that is so steeped Third World and Islamicist romanticsim that this policy was never pursued.

      1. avatar Low Budget Dave says:

        TDI: So what you are saying is that anyone who doesn’t do exactly what George Bush did must be doing it because of their love for Islam? Thanks for explaining that.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Avtually Dave, Obama has followed and expanded upon some of Bush’s counterterrorsm policies but as a leftwing extremist you are now ok with those policies since your Savior has blessed them.

          But what I was refering to was the Aminstration’s embrace of the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic radical groups in Libya, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. The US presence in Benghazi was supporting the transfer of weapons and sunni radical fighters to the opposition in Syria. How did that work out for you?

        2. avatar Low Budget Dave says:

          TDI: I am a pretty reliable liberal, but only a fair-weather Democrat. I am not particularly wild about drone strikes, or torture, regardless of who is in power. Although I think Bush made a few good strategic decisions, I don’t think we had any business being there in the first place.

          Although I agree with Obama that sometimes you have to send in drones, I do not agree that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

          I don’t see how people could be in favor of Iraq, but opposed to Libya, but that is not really an issue for me: I was opposed to both of them, and I am already opposed to the next one.

          My rules for military use are pretty simple:
          1. It must be the right thing to do.
          2. It must be in the interest of our country.
          3. It must be winnable, or at least have an exit strategy.

          In my book, if you meet the first two criteria, then you can let #3 slide for a while. But you can’t ignore #1 or #2 no matter whether you are a Democrat or Republican or anywhere in between.

        3. avatar tdiinva says:

          That is a change from your first post but you are still engaged in self delusion. Obama overthrew the Qadaffi regime because he believed he met your three criteria. And the primary reason he felt it was in the US interest was that he thought the Muslim Brotherhood would take power. The only reason that Obama pursues the war on AQ is that he doesn’t understand that it is the covert arm of the Brotherhood. If he ever figures that out he will try to negotiate a peace settlement with them.

        4. avatar Low Budget Dave says:

          TDI: So what you are saying is that Obama doesn’t understand the Muslim Brotherhood, and you do? I find that unlikely. I find it much more likely that he concluded they would be the lesser of two evils.

          I don’t find his thought process particularly compelling, either way.

          I don’t like to see American’s put in harm’s way for the sake of the lesser of two evils. But throughout the history of the United States, many old, fat, white politicians have done exactly that.

          The fact that Obama is not all that fat or white doesn’t let him off the hook for putting American lives at risk. But it doesn’t mean he is a Muslim sympathizer either.

        5. avatar WLCE says:

          I actually will say that Dave is 100% right.

          Obama has his criticisms. Dave already mentioned them so I wont beat a dead horse. He’s as bloody as his predecessor in his role in perpetuating endless war and imperialism.

          But to go off on a wild hair and throw around “muslim brotherhood” and islamic-sympathetic conspiracies is plainly idiotic.

          If Obama was islamic-sympathetic, then why do his drones continue to kill children in Pakistan?

          astounding logic LMAO!!!

          “So what you are saying is that anyone who doesn’t do exactly what George Bush did must be doing it because of their love for Islam?”

          Apparently, in the minds of these delusional, neo-con, warmongering apologists.

        6. avatar tdiinva says:


          I am a retired intelligence officer (I have worked directly with Steve Cambone, Jim Clapper and Mike Vickers.) and I assure you that I know a bit more about the subject than pretty anybody on this thread. While I will not claim that the President is incapable of understanding the true nature of the Muslim Brotherhood, he is certainly information challenged when it comes to the subject. He is known for skipping his daily intelligence briefing. He does get the slides but to get a true understanding you need the give and take with a live briefer. He doesn’t like to waste his time on unimportant things like intelligence briefings.

    2. avatar WLCE says:

      “The US defeated the Iraq insurgency. There is no arguing that.”

      Then why is Iraq currently involved in a low intensity civil war? why are there still killings and suicide bombings? why are Iranian-backed Sadr militias still maintaining a unparalleled level of political power?

      these attributes I have mentioned are irrefutable facts. They are also not present in conflicts where counter-insurgency operations have been successful.

      try agian.

      “What has happened is the Obama has effectively switched sides in the Middle East. The US may have abandoned Vietnam in 1972 but this case the Adminstration clearly has come out on the side of the Sunni extremists in the region.”

      Oh spare me the Obama bashing bullshit about “switching sides”. Obama has done anything but “switch sides”. If this was the case, then why has he expanded military operations in afghanistan and the CIA-isms such as torture, drone use, and assassination? that is not even getting into the subject of strong arming whistleblowers calling him and his administration out on their pro-war bullshit….

      “Iraq is holding firm despite the upsurge in violence by AQ in Iraq but if AQI manages to break down order the Shia majority will simply go out and massacre the Sunni population.”

      Iraq is not “holding firm”. You even admitted that there is a upsurge in violence. Upsurges in violence do not equate to a government “holding firm”.

      “I can’t argue victory or defeat in Afghanistan.”

      Really!? I can. Others can too (you know, the commanders that actually have boots on the ground?)

      “It was clear by 2008 that we had accomplished all that we were capable of and should have withdrawn and concentrated on getting a SOFA in place in Iraq to sustain the win. However we have an adminstration that is so steeped Third World and Islamicist romanticsim that this policy was never pursued.”

      LOL give me a break. you cannot honestly muster up that bullshit as fact.

      We were capable of so much more, such as integrating our forces into strategic locations versus isolating them in FOBs. Im not the only one that talks about this. Look at the works of John Poole.

      but why stick to the facts when you can take a cheap shot at Obama?

  21. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    OK, let’s postulate an alternative scenario.

    Rather than take on the government, the “militia” types take out smug, supercilious mouthpieces like the above referenced superannuated bloviator. Take out the propaganda arm of a government, and suddenly the glib apologists go very quiet indeed. When the glib go to ground, a government loses the ability to distract and deflect attention from their actions.

    Cavett might be many things, but well read in history and warfare, he is not.

    1. avatar 16V says:

      But he did at least earn a place on Tricky’s ‘enemies list’.

      Sadly, it took that bloody Brit Frost, to give Nixon the interview he deserved.

    2. avatar Mister Fleas says:


      Dick Cavett’s scenario of fighting “jet bombers, rocket grenades, tear gas, off-shore gunships, heavy-duty cannons and napalm” is akin to a boxer hitting his opponent’s fists. A boxer goes for the head.
      A hypothetical American insurgency would go for the politicians, police chiefs, enemy media, etc.

  22. avatar Matt in FL says:

    What is with all the second- and third-rate “celebrities” coming out of the woodwork to support gun control lately? Is it just a last gasp attempt to be relevant?

    1. avatar In Memphis says:

      Matt unfortunatley a lot of people listen to these “celebrities.” The media knows this obviously and my proof is that [email protected] like Jersey Shore lasts more than one season.

    2. avatar AlphaGeek says:

      I’m pretty sure it’s being caused by panic among the gun-confiscation crowd as they realize that “victory” is slipping out of their grasp. AWB 2.0 is dead, and they’re just realizing this even though the politicians have been signaling it’s a no-go for weeks. The House pro-2A contingent is, at best, mouthing platitudes about how they maybe, possibly could consider a magazine capacity limit. (Translation: “fsck off with your magazine capacity limits unless it comes with some serious legislative bribery that wouldn’t otherwise pass the Senate…”)

      The disarmament crusaders (and this IS a Crusade for them, capital C) are now facing the most horrifying of all possible outcomes: no nationwide 2A restrictions that would take hardware out of the hands of current and future gun owners. At best they’re going to get an expansion of background checks (AlphaGeek prediction: 95% chance of passage) along with other stuff that might actually make a difference, which isn’t their priority.

      Result: panicky calls to their “network” of every famous and almost-famous quasi-celeb they’ve ever met asking for their support, in return for free media exposure. For example, I’m a big fan of Chris Rock’s work, and will continue to be a fan… if only because his weaksauce “press conference” did more to stall out the disarmament Crusade than any single PR event we could have managed.

      Don’t get me wrong, we’re still facing an attempted @ss-fscking with flaming chainsaws in many (most?) of the blute-state legislatures. Beating this crap into a thin smear on the ground at the Federal level does, in fact, help at the state level — it weakens the case for passing much of the proposed legislation, and sets the stage for serious court challenges for anything that gets signed into law.

      1. avatar 16V says:

        I guess I don’t share your optimism that the defeat of AWB – The Sequel on the Fed level will inherently help quash this nonsense at the State level. (Though I wish I could…)

        Even as the rest of the nation had long sworn off the farcical bans, MittRomneyLand and CA were still quite enthusiastically on board. Not to mention IL.

        Even if it does eventually go our way, there’s a huge lag time which could leave many gun owners in a significant moral and legal dilemma.

        I understand and agree that court challenges are the name of the game, but my other concern is that it usually takes at least 3 years for something to reach The Supremes. By that time, the makeup of the Court may be very different.

  23. avatar frankie says:

    Funny how Christopher Dorner passed his police psychological exams, proving how useless these MMPI’s and other psychological tests for cops are. Some of the most sane and honest people are the ones who flunk them, yet the sociopaths like Dorner pass, and then, well, we see how that ends up.

  24. avatar matt says:

    God speed Chris, god speed.

    And I would like to correct my post from the previous thread, Dorner’s fan site will be more liked than TTAG on facebook by Wednesday, he has gotten 800 more likes in the past 10 hours. Dorner 4,874 – TTAG 5,836.

  25. Ugh. These posts are so sad. Every time some terrorist nutcase arms himself to the teeth and eludes police for a few months, TTAG starts posting serenades. “Look, an armed fanatic can force a tyrannical government to its knees.”

    Then, when the cops finally hunt him down and toss him in jail for a few decades, you secretly cheer for him to escape so he can live out your “Red Dawn” fantasy.

    Listen: One lone gunman does not change the argument. Just because he has a dozen guns does not mean everyone needs them. If he meets up with the average gun owner, Dorner is just going to kill them and take their guns.

    I am sure everyone who reads this has super powers, and you would out-draw him, or out-shoot him, or show him the secret NRA handshake, or whatever. But the average gun owner shoots about as well as the average driver drives. Maybe worse. The average gun owner is just another victim to people like Dorner, and just another potential Dorner to everyone else.

    If you (in general) are sitting around cheering for this guy because he is showing how easy it is to use guerrilla tactics against the cops, then you (in general) need to get some psychological help.

    1. avatar matt says:

      when the cops finally hunt him down and toss him in jail for a few decades
      It seems like you’ve been paying attention closely to the recent events if you think Dorner is going to jail.

      If he meets up with the average gun owner, Dorner is just going to kill them and take their guns.
      Its obvious you havent read his letter either.

      But the average gun owner shoots about as well as the average driver drives.
      So, because the average driver is able to effectively operate their vehicles in adverse conditions and get where they need to go, the average shooter can operate their guns in adverse conditions and hit what they need to? Did you think that comment thru before you posted it?

      1. avatar Low Budget Dave says:

        Matt, The average driver uses their car 30 minutes each day. The average gun owner uses their weapon about 30 minutes per year.

        I was being a little sarcastic, because in spite of the training advantage, most drivers are still awful.

        1. avatar Brad says:

          By training, are you referring to High School drivers Ed or the 30 minutes the average driver sits behind the wheel, reinforcing bad habits to muscle memory.

          Only a fraction of the driving population ever take anything beyond drivers Ed.

          I would happily debate the premise that people that regularly carry train a lot more than the average driver. And by training I mean take courses or practice with their firearm with express intent to improve their skills.

        2. avatar Low Budget Dave says:

          Brad, There are about a million people in Florida with concealed carry permits. Statistically about 20% of them carry frequently, if not daily.

          I live within a half hour drive of about a million people, and exactly four gun ranges, not counting the police-only ranges.

          If all these people were training, there would be an additional 10,000 people training once per week, or about 40 per hour per store. My experience is that when I go in to the most popular range at the most popular time, there are only about three of us.

          Admittedly, some people train once per month and still shoot better than I do, but the vast majority of the average gun owners train once per year or less. Even if you limit it to people who are carrying all the time, which most gun owners don’t, they are still desperately undertrained.

          This doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have rights. It just means I would feel a lot safer if they weren’t carrying their guns around, bragging about how they could take down a tyrannical government.

        3. avatar matt says:

          Who the hell only has a 15 minute commute? And if most drivers were awful then there would be a lot more dead drivers.

        4. avatar In Memphis says:

          “The average driver uses their car 30 minutes each day. The average gun owner uses their weapon about 30 minutes per year.”

          Wow, I’m really excelling at life. I spend about 48 hours a week driving and at least an hour a week at the range.

        5. avatar Ropingdown says:

          LBD: The people arguing that an armed populace can take down a tyrannical government is NOT support for the idea of doing so, but rather support for the notion that this central purpose, one of three for the 2nd Amendment, is not the laughable impossibility the Cavitts of the world suggest. Nobody wants it to happen. Nobody wants it to be impossible, either.

        6. avatar Low Budget Dave says:

          Ropingdown: The way you say it makes more sense. I still don’t think armed terrorists are going to get much respect from the general population, but all you are saying is that arming yourself shouldn’t be against the law.

          I agree that we should have the right to protest, and we should have the right to return violence with violence. I just don’t think it is a particularly good idea to do so.

        7. avatar matt says:

          On facebook Dorner by tomorrow morning will be more liked than TTAG, a week from tomorrow, he will be more liked than the LAPD. But of course that must mean that everyone secretly hates him.

        8. Matt,

          I have to agree with you about that. We live in a twisted society that looks up to terrorists. Unfortunately, it is starting to look like some of his claims might be true. How sad is it that someone has to declare war on the police department to get people to look into his claims?

        9. avatar Matt in FL says:

          It doesn’t mean everyone secretly hates him, and it also doesn’t mean everyone likes him. It means that clicking “Like” on Facebook is a completely meaningless gesture that requires no thought, no effort, and has no repercussions, positive or negative.

          “Like this page on Facebook if you want Dorner to stop shooting people.”

          “Like this page on Facebook if you think it was wrong for the LAPD to shoot up that car.”

          “Like this page on Facebook to show your support for our men and women in uniform.”

        10. avatar matt says:

          So some of the people who liked TTAG did so because they are pro gun control and they thought if TTAG was liked, it wouldnt feel the need to own guns?

  26. avatar niceguns says:

    We need to start by getting rid of terrorists like OBAMA Bin Ladin.That is why we need our President to be a graduate of West Point, the Naval Academy or Air Force academy. Not some pansy ass bleeding heart liberal from the school of sissy indoctrination.

    1. avatar Low Budget Dave says:

      Nice: Yeah, we need somebody like Kerry. We have had enough of male cheerleaders in the White House.

    2. avatar Josh says:

      Nice trolling. Why can’t it be an enlisted guy? I’d rather have a Master Chief than an Admiral… as President.
      Of course an enlisted guy would have the common sense to say how stupid your idea is in the first place.

      1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        I’d rather see someone who retired as a senior enlisted get the job.

        They have sense and intelligence that has been bought and paid for with hard coin indeed, rather than a lot of airy-fairy nonsense.

  27. avatar Josh says:

    I don’t think Dorner is eluding capture… hes most likely dead from exposure or suicide. Its much harder to find a frozen corpse under snow than a marauding gunman.
    Leftist or rightist, who gives a rat’s ass Mr. Farago? His own views are barely human… he thinks its okay to kill people and their families over getting fired, clearly hes off the rez…
    Of course, he’s made the point of how effective semi-auto rifles are hasn’t he? An AR against cops with handguns is no fair contest. Won’t be long before most cops are going around with their own Bushmasters thanks to this guy.

    1. avatar matt says:

      CPD thinks he is either in on en route to Chicago. I certainly hope its true, the CPD could use some of his justice too.

      MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2013

      LA Killer Headed East?
      From a source that has been correct in the past:
      SCC: Please warn officers, UNCONFIRMED info from a very good Fed source: the LA Cop, Dorner, is either in Chicago already, or headed here on a train.

      Up to you to post this, but I’d hate to see our people get hurt for what LAPD created. The news says they lost track of him, my source says that’s not true.

      Be extra careful. Put your egos aside. This guy is bad news and it will obviously end in more bloodshed. Hopefully not in Chicago.

      Stay Safe.
      Keep an eye out.
      Labels: info for the police


    2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      After the North Hollywood robbery shoot-out, LAPD up-gunned lots of their beat cops’ cars with lots of goodies.

      In that shootout, the LAPD got a hard lesson in rifles vs. pistols.

  28. avatar Patrick says:

    “See what they did there?”

    No, I don’t see. Am I the only one? Someone please explain.

  29. avatar Kirk says:

    I’m a wee bit disturbed by all the hate on for the cops. Are and should they be held to a high standard? Yes. Do they sometimes fail? Yes.

    Do they pay for those failures? Absolutely:

    1. avatar matt says:

      Kirk, good job not reading Dorner’s letting and instead publishing baseless speculation, such as no one involved with the Rodney King incident is still employed by the LAPD. From Dorner’s letter

      Are you aware that an officer (a rookie/probationer at the time) seen on the Rodney King videotape striking Mr. King multiple times with a baton on 3/3/91 is still employed by the LAPD and is now a Captain on the police department? Captain Rolando Solano is now the commanding officer of a LAPD police station (West LA division). As a commanding officer, he is now responsible for over 200 officers.

      May our angel of death complete his mission.

      1. avatar Josh says:

        The hell?!!
        What did any of the victims do to deserve getting murdered?
        Victim 1: Daughter of guy who supposedly didn’t defend Dorner – Innocent
        Victim 2: Guy who wants to marry Victim 1 – Innocent
        Victim 3: Cop on patrol, just doing his job – Innocent

        What does it say about you that you think this is okay? That you call him an angel?

        1. avatar Kirk says:

          We rely on good men and women to take up law enforcement.

          The bile I’ve observed in this Dorner matter, however, would make any good citizen think anew about a career in the administration of justice.

          Just as our best officers deservedly uphold difficult standards, so must the rest of us conduct ourselves cognizant of that burden.

          In today’s news, I’m seeing too little of that.

        2. avatar matt says:

          Victim 2 – Was also a cop. And no one is innocent, look up the definition of the word. And yes Dorner is a angel.

      2. avatar jwm says:

        Your angel of death matt, not ours. You should meet him at the train with flowers and a box of candy.

        1. avatar matt says:

          Hey, if he is actually coming to Chicago as reported, he can sleep on my couch.

      3. avatar Kirk says:

        Well, Matt, I did read Dorner’s bit (painful though it was to get through), and I drew my conclusions.

        A far shorter bit you appear to have missed was me stating at the link: “Is it okay to shoot up the rear of an innocent’s vehicle. Obviously not.”

        And you equally appear to have missed my opinion that the cops involved in the Dorner misidentificati ons are very likely undergoing intense review.

        You also appear to have missed my overarching point: our law enforcement system is inherently imperfect, but it has means, also imperfect, of seeking justice.

        Dorner may be your “angel of death,” but I conclude this says more about you and what I perceive as a derangement.

        I’ve elected not to censor you on where you copy-pasted your comment, but reply. Because I’m always delighted when people declare who and what they are, as you have, Matt.

        1. avatar matt says:

          Well, Matt, I did read Dorner’s bit (painful though it was to get through), and I drew my conclusions.
          Huh? You came to the conclusion that no one who was involved in Rodney King is still employed by the LAPD, when in fact Rolando Solano still is?

          A far shorter bit you appear to have missed was me stating at the link: “Is it okay to shoot up the rear of an innocent’s vehicle. Obviously not.”

          If a civilian did the same thing would they end up in jail? Why aren’t those 7 officers who shot up that one truck in jail? What about those other officers who shot up the Honda truck? They arent in jail either. But hey, keep on being a apologist for the police state.

        2. avatar matt says:

          Also you said in your blog post “LEOs are justly held to a very high standard. ” What high standard is this? As I mentioned previously why arent those officers who attempted to murder multiple civilians in jail?

        3. avatar Kirk says:

          Matt, you will search in vain for a conclusion on my part that “no one who was involved in Rodney King is still employed by the LAPD…”

          Instead, Matt, what I did was quote a retired police officer who writes on Quora (Tim Dees) who set forth details about how officers involved in that despicable Rodney King event were, indeed, punished.

          You seem to be a bit worked up about “jailing officers.” Neither you nor I know what will become of them. Let us wait and see.

          I predict, but could be wrong, that they will face some very stiff penalties.

          If I’m correct, and they do, will you agree that this is evidence that America is not in some sort of “police state”?

          You seem intent on treating these officers, who appear to have failed in their sworn duties, as common thugs. I disagree with your apparent desire that they should be, and am glad that they are not.

          I would ask what it is that has so gotten under your skin about it, but I think, at this point, I’d rather not know.

        4. avatar matt says:

          You seem to be a bit worked up about “jailing officers.” Neither you nor I know what will become of them. Let us wait and see.

          They havent been arrested and you damned well know they wont either. The very worst they’ll get is a paid vacation.

          You seem intent on treating these officers, who appear to have failed in their sworn duties, as common thugs. I disagree with your apparent desire that they should be, and am glad that they are not.
          If a civilian did this they would be treated as a common thug. Which if you were to have paid attention to Dorners letter, is a large part of why he is hunting them down, because they can abuse and murder civilians without recourse.

      4. avatar Kirk says:

        Hey, Matt! Will you be rushing off to Big Bear, now?

        Your ‘Angel of Death’ needs you!

    2. avatar Ropingdown says:

      Where you stand depends on where you sit, I suppose. My PD is excellent overall. They’re polite, use good judgement, and follow sensible SOP’s. In the next jurisdiction, a large city, I’ve seen astoundingly corrupt actions from giving mob businesses a blank check to use violence against clip-joint customers to busting people for a large amount of some substance, then turning them in at the lockup with small amount of the substance. I accept that they have a much much more difficult group of citizens to deal with. It must be shocking to good and honest LEO’s when they hear about the bad ones, or actually see them in action. Attorneys and other professions actually have similar reputational problems. “Did you hear the one about the lawyer who….”

    3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      As I’ve made quite clear, repeatedly, the source of my animus towards LEO’s is the cost their “mistakes” take on the taxpayers’ pockets.

      When a police department pays out damages to victims of police misconduct and malfeasance, who foots that bill? Who pays for the investigations, the court cases, etc, etc, etc?

      The taxpayers.

      Paying means I don’t need to say “Please.” It also means that I don’t need to be nice when I’m not happy with performance for which I’m paying.

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