A few days after a mass shooting at an El Paso Walmart store, a man walked into a Wally World in Springfield, Missouri wearing load bearing equipment and a slung AR. While he reportedly did nothing more than walk around and film himself with his phone, the reaction was pretty much what you’d expect after a similar high profile incident.
After he was arrested, he claimed it was all just a “social experiment,” but he’s been charged with making a terrorist threat.
While nerves may have calmed slightly in the intervening days, Walmart shoppers are still jumpy. But like 15 other states, Missouri is a constitutional carry state. And like more than 40 other states, open carry is legal there.
So when two men walked into a Kansas City Walmart over the weekend while open carrying handguns — not conducting a “social experiment,” just to buy some ammo — police were called and the store was evacuated.
Here’s the AP’s account of what happened . . .
Two men with handguns in their waistbands alarmed shoppers when they entered a Kansas City-area Walmart on Sunday, but police say they were just buying ammunition for target practice.
Kansas City, Missouri, Police Sgt. Jake Becchina says the men were cooperative and were released because they hadn’t violated Missouri law.
Shopper Clennon Jones said he saw officers speed into the parking lot and one jumped out with shotgun in hand. Jones says shoppers streamed out of the store and warned others not to enter.
Missouri does not require a permit to openly carry a firearm for those 19 years or older. The Walmart store the men entered does not prohibit guns in the store.
Walmart officials didn’t immediately respond to a message.
Earlier this month, 22 people were killed during a mass shooting at another Walmart in El Paso, Texas.
Since then, there have been a number of incidents at Walmart stores around the country. Last week, prosecutors charged a 20-year-old manwith making a terrorist threat after he walked into a Springfield, Missouri, Walmart wearing body armor, carrying a loaded rifle and handgun, and filming himself with a phone.
It may be legal but in light of el paso now may not be the best time to open carry in walmart.
Or it may be the best time. Concede on this and you may find senseless hysteria over the sight of a gun becoming the new normal.
This scenario is what we WANT to happen. Guns in public, cops come, no problems. The damage here is suffered only by Walmart – the money they spent paying people to deal with this and the inconvenience they caused to their shoppers.
We WANT the police to show up and say “No problem, not illegal, no threat”, a lot.
We WANT 911 to start asking “Is it really a threat, or is it just a guy shopping? Because we get a lot of false alarms from this walmart.”
We WANT Walmart shoppers to complain “They keep evacuating the store while I’m trying to shop, just because some dude with a gun comes in. He shops here every week.”
We WANT Walmart to say “Hey, our customers are complaining that our policies are making them go shop at Target instead.
We WANT Target to say “Hey gun owners, we totally sell ammo now and won’t call the police on you when you come. Also, 20% off ammo this weekend only!”
Because that’s how you make something acceptable – you create the demand and wait for the supply to show up.
And if the cops blast you what will people say?
You were carrying a weapon in a store full of Mom’s and children.
You may WANT it to be a certain way but that’s not always possible.
I’m all for concealed carry and do so myself but openly carrying guns in stores a week after a huge massacre at another branch of said store is asking for trouble, bad press, and more laws restricting carrying concealed.
But hey, if you feel like a cowboy with a Glock on your hip I guess that’s Ok.
Suggestion: in respect of recent tradgedy, wear a proud 2a shirt like my yellow AR Gadsden Flag and conceal carry. If anyone asks about the shirt (I get compliments on my rural area), you can explain to them that you carry a firearm everywhere you go for your protection.
I like to tell people I carry to protect myself AND them though they might find that to be a lie if SHTF and I scoot out the fire exit. Remember, nearly all the mass shootings have been ended by a Good guy with a gun.
You don’t have to display or brandish to normalize guns, especially right now.
What if they do not act logically? What if they act emotionally and WalMart puts up “no guns” signs. What if the customers act emotionally and demand further restrictions on guns? I am reminded of an episode of the old Star Trek in which Spock makes careful logical plans, but the other side acts emotionally and none of his plans work. I also note that if your plan does not work perfectly, we lose. We do not live in a perfect world.
IN order to make a point, organized open carriers in California (open unloaded carry at the time, thanks to Ronnie Raygun banning loaded open carry), so many calls to 911 about a MAN WITH GUN!!! followed by a massive police response and harassment of the carriers, followed by complaints to state legislators, lead to the banning of open carriers within months.m People do not want to be scared, and especially after a mass shooting, never mind that the odds of being shot are less than the odds of being struck by lightning. they will react emotionally to the unexpected presence of guns. It is better to chill until the media circus dies down and interest fades–which is actually quite rapid.
And just a hint, although it may be perfectly legal, slinging an AR is bound to draw a negative response.
Followed by a whole bunch of “But what if…” responses that boil down to. “Give in before they make us give in, because if we give in first, that’s better, for reasons.”
Bingo. Rosa Parks didn’t upgrade her seat on the bus by continuing to sit in the back.
So, bad guy comes to Walmart and murders unarmed shoppers. So as a self defender you decide to go to Walmart unarmed out of respect for the silly scared people unwilling to protect themselves. What do we put on your tombstone? I sacrificed my life out of fear of scaring someone. The question to ask yourself is why do you carry? If you don’t wish to scare someone at Walmart, go shop somewhat else until a norm is reached or better yet, get a concealed carry permit to prevent this type of “kid” poop from happening.
If you think this is the best time to stroll into walmart with a gun on your hip or over your shoulder you are asking for trouble and part of the problem.
You do watch the news right? Well so do other people in walmart and don’t you think for a millisecond that isn’t a good idea?
Oh I forgot, it’s all about normalizing open carry and all that.
What’s with the sarcasm and insults? You actually have a few decent points; not original or irrefutable, but at least making a fair contribution to the discussion. Why discount them and discredit youself by becoming a bore?
100%, well stated. Only an idiot would open carry in a Walmart right now. Of course in some states it’s your right, but you’re going to come off as a fool, if you don’t get carried out.
“If you think this is the best time to stroll into walmart with a gun on your hip or over your shoulder you are asking for trouble and part of the problem. ”
Everyday, my friend… No issues. Sounds like a lot of hand-wringing. I live my life as I see fit and try to worry less about what negative things other people may, or may not, think. Open carry has saved my ass more than once, so I know to keep doing it.
I was in one of my local Walmarts 2 days ago. Did you read about me in the news?
I didn’t think so.
Was in a WalMart last week in Beeville Texas. Saw a man open carrying and no one said a thing. My first thought was , at least there’s some protection in here.
Hugh Glass: correction, in all states it is your right.
Because, Jonathon, sarcasm highlights the position people take that it’s ok to along an AR or open carry a pistol when concealed is a better choice.
That’s why the sarcasm.
You say it highlights that point; I say it adulterates that point with unhelpful antagonism. Expanding firearms freedom is an important civil rights movement, one even vital for the future of the country. We needn’t devour our own in the process.
“We needn’t devour our own in the process.”
Oh yes we do. Anyone who deviates from the script should be harshly ridiculed, and banished from pro-2A blogs and websites. If your beliefs are not perfect, as determined by the Guardian Council, you shall be treated as Haram. Every gun owner is subject to investigation and evaluation by the Retardian Guard. Only the pure of belief will be allowed to speak for POTG. Everyone not acceptable the Guardian Council or Supreme Leader will be publicly shamed and put outside the city walls, left to beg for food and mercy.
Absolutely right. That’s the way the anti-gunners work, they hammer on one little point until we lawful weapons carriers give in, then move on to the next bit of their agenda. Notice that the anti’s never “compromise” but keep fighting til they win their position.
Where have you been? That is already the new normal in many places.
While I don’t agree with that, this kind of advocacy for tone deaf “fear therapy” is equally senseless.
People said the same thing about AR-15 open carry in Texas in the runup to the vote on licenced open carry of handguns, which nevertheless passed and became law.
No, open carry was killed the first time it was brought to session. It was the second time, when we went for constitutional carry but would accept open carry, and without all the scare tactics, that open carry passed.
You cannot segment public perceptions by legislative sessions like that. You can’t correctly declare that if there were not an AR-15 open carry concurrent with that specific vote, then such activity is unrelated to the discussion. That licensed OC was a compromise fallback position from constitutional carry does not negate the fact that it was accomplished within the atmosphere of open carry AR-15 demonstrations, whether concurrently or recently, as the public does have a memory formed over time. In this case, the AR-15 demonstrations, whether the wek of the vote or across the past several yeare, failed to derail said vote. True or false?
To claim false would be to argue similarly that the the public nationwide forgets about spree shootings only several months or so after while considering their stance on gun rights today. We know that is visibly untrue.
You’re just allowing your own anti-AR-15 OC bias to cloud your interpretation of the legislative record.
@Jonathan-Houston: I seriously have some respect for JWT but realized during an exchange on here a while back that logic is not his strong point. In the end, he will let his ego get in the way, put his fingers in his ears, and repeat something over and over. It’s really not a pretty sight. He believes what he believes and won’t be swayed by facts or logic. Your post serves an important purpose for others reading but is wasted on JWT, IMHO.
It already is.
Yeah evacuating the stores over open carry was stupid. If they want to ruin their own business let them but don’t give into it.
Be cause why? The country is filled with stupid, scared, bedwetting animals and soyboys?
We live in the real world, people are armed, they have every right to be armed. Soccer mom Jane needs to figure it out that unless someone is flailing gun around or actively shooting, there is no threat. The cops need to get it through their thick skulls that people carrying guns isn’t an illegal act.
We need more of this until everyone is exhausted from crying over hurt feelings and the police stop responding to it.
“We need more of this until everyone is exhausted from crying over hurt feelings and the police stop responding to it.”
That’s what we did in Ohio and it worked out well. I open carry, rarely conceal.
Exposure creates complacency. Don’t believe it? Look at abortion… only took a few years to make murdering babies acceptable, Gay marriage? two decades tops, Trans guys beating the crap out of women in “competition”? less than 10 years… If EVERY PotG who was legally allowed to open carried at least once a week it would become NORMAL about as fast as the cops would LEARN the laws the are supposed to KNOW. It was mentioned that you might get shot… you might get shot because you left your firearm AT HOME because WallyWorld BANNED THEM. All the people who have been at shooting where the “Good Guy” with a gun was a civilian are thrilled that person was there…. Awhile back there was a shooting in D.C. by a Democrat who hated Republicans and shot up their baseball practice. He was stopped by a civilian. I repost every story about a self protection gun use… because those who see them often repost them. If the LEFTist Media won’t report on it WE SHOULD. The LESS people hear about it the MORE “gun control” makes sense…. except they are basing their thinking on LIES from the media. Do WHAT you can WHEN you can.
Whether or not open carry is productive is anyone’s guess.
Consider my experience at the beach at a state park a few days after the three spree-killers did their deeds:
I was visibly armed with a full-size handgun in a holster on my hip, wearing shorts and a t-shirt while my children swam in the water. No one cared. Even a woman and her daughter from Ontario, Canada did not care. Perhaps more importantly, a family from out-of-state parked, saw that I was armed, and went out of their way to set-up next to me and my family. The husband thanked me for being armed because he knew it provided security for his family as well.
THAT is the point of open carry. No one overreacted. In fact no one reacted at all. No one called police. Park staff did not call police. Everyone enjoyed the beach and the water and we all went home at the end of the day.
Important note: when the very first people started routinely carrying openly visible handguns in my state about 20 years ago, a lot of people called police and responding police almost always overreacted, at the very least detaining the open carriers for a very long time an demanding identification, and often even arresting the open carriers for brandishing or disturbing the peace. Since open carry is legal in my state and does not constitute brandishing nor disturbing the peace, prosecutors universally dropped those charges and, equally important, those early open-carriers won their lawsuits for false arrest/imprisonment.
For about 10 years now, calls to police are extremely rare. And when someone does call police, dispatchers almost universally ask callers what the visibly armed person is doing. If the caller does not report any threatening behavior, the dispatchers inform the callers that open carry is legal and to ignore the open carrier. On the rare occasion that police decide to show up anyway, they are much more respectful and simply attempt a brief dialogue with the open carriers. If the open carriers are interested in chatting with police, they have a nice conversation. If not, the open carriers go about their business and police drive away without incident.
This^^^^^ If you want to open carry and can legally do so go for it. We have in our Constitution the right to pursue life, liberty, happiness, etc. as long as our pursuits do not endanger someone else doing the same. Snowflakes and others need to get over open carry as do the police.
Open carry endangers no one. I personally would not open carry a rifle shopping as you have to be very cognizant of muzzle control as you bend over to shelves to get things, etc. But whatever, if you do it safely within the 4 firearm rules I could care less.
As Conservatives we are supposed to be more live and let live I thought. Unlike Liberals that wnat to control everything within the auspices of the state.
“It may be legal but in light of el paso now may not be the best time to open carry in walmart.”
Open carry is my normal mode of carry so it’s not really optional for me without some changes. Besides, I don’t do business anywhere I can’t open carry.
Right after the two shootings, it didn’t make a difference in my area. I continued to go about my daily business openly carrying; Kroger, Walmart, bank, United Dairy Farmer, Speedway, etc. Nobody even gave a second look except a few who asked advice on what’s best to purchase and carry these days.
Body armor and open carry a rifle might be the safest option to go anywhere these days.
Body armor prevents cops from killing active shooters. BA ban for “civilians” is apparently in some of the legislation being considered or proposed in the states. Not only are we facing the time when we can’t defend ourselves, we will also not be able to protect ourselves.
Don’t worry, there’s a youtube video for that stuff too.
It is so strange how different views are from state to state.
In GA, we open carry all the time in Walmart, Kroger, local pubs and no one freaks out.
The only way to change perceptions is to do what should be normal, not what is normal.
As a Good first step…..It’s might be time to Ban WalMart stores!!
Why should people be afraid at the sight of a gun?
This moron with the camera was armed AND acting weird. That could get you shot in most places.
Some will call this “self-swatting”. Others will call it a bumper crop of “liberal tears”.
The gun control mafia has already won because they’ve convinced the public that this is “abnormal.”
Oh come on now,
I 100% support these people’s right to own, and carry, guns but at no point in history has walking through a shopping center with a rifle slung over your shoulder been ‘normal’.
Just for most of American history, at least in normal states.
Regardless of the history, people need to realize you can’t undo decades of liberal propaganda and brainwashing by staging stupid open carry stunts.
No, the open carry of long guns has never been “normal” in most places during our nation’s history. Unless you were trading furs, in the military, or were an armed guard, the open display of long guns in cities and town shopping centers has always been unusual.
Wrong GDMF, that’s exactly how you undo it.
Yeah it’s a bit different. A 50 yr man with a 1911 on his hip is not very threatening to me. Some kid walking around with an AR is going to get my attention
” the open display of long guns in cities and town shopping centers has always been unusual. ”
Yes and no. Walking around with a long gun has never been normal, though there was a time when it wouldn’t set off mass hysteria. However, seeing long guns out in public was pretty common at one time, most usually seen in gun racks in the back windows of pick-up trucks. Not so common in NYC, perhaps, but out in suburbia and rural america, very common.
” However, seeing long guns out in public was pretty common at one time, most usually seen in gun racks in the back windows of pick-up trucks.”
I graduated High School in the mid ’70s in suburban S.E. Michigan (Oakland County). It was not uncommon to see rifles and shotguns in gun racks of trucks parked all day in the high school student parking lot through out the late ’60s and into late ’70s (pre crack cocaine days).It was no big deal, no one gave a shit.
But that’s not what we’re talking about. That’s not the same as walking around a shopping center with a rifle or shotgun. I was one of those kids with a gun rack in his truck. Nobody would have batted an eye about that. Now, me, or anybody else, taking that same rifle out and walked through town shopping like that would have not been normal.
The topic at hand is not guns in public in general.
“Normal” used to be kids in grade school bringing their .22s TO SCHOOL (rich kids) so they could shoot their supper on the way home! Annie Oakley was a crack shot for the same reason and they did NOT have powder and shot to spare. The only reason the Anti-s are “winning” is because they are NOISIER then POTG. WE need to become MORE PRO-ACTIVE…. even feel free to argue with someone about YOUR RIGHT to carry, just don’t be stupid about it. Leave it where it belongs UNLESS it’s NEEDED…. and when “Gun Control” is called for? HIT what you’re AIMING AT.
I can see your but.
Oh, good grief. I was in a Wally World in Nevada a few weeks ago (again) with my large handgun prominently in view on my hip, properly holstered. Nobody gave me a second look. The greeter smiled and said “welcome”, the employee at the register didn’t bat an eye as I bought ammo (there was simply a sign posted at that counter asking customers to keep their guns holstered), and none of the other customers – even children – gave me any looks.
As long as you’re not walking around with your palm resting on the gun’s grip (like LEOs like to do when speaking with you, for intimidation), you cannot be charged with brandishing. Wally World has a plethora of security cams all over the store which will help you with your side of the story if any Timid Timmy or Snowflake Susie calls the cops.
The young man who performed his “2A check” in MO last week was the second one this year to do so (the previous one was in a public park in OK with an AR pistol). These idiots do absolutely nothing to help us. If they want to know how educated cops are on gun laws, they should simply walk up and ask them (while being unarmed, of course) while filming. Otherwise, they make all of us look like the same brand of idiot, and give the anti-gunners fodder for their gun control nausea.
Unfortunately, not all citizens are so blessed as to live in a state that recognizes the universality of the 2nd Amendment. Just think, you could have been a resident of New York City or Chicago, or even the whole state of California, where only the bad guys can carry firearms. (it’s still against the law for them to carry, but they don’t care–they are criminals, after all.
I’ve lived in SoCal my entire life. I open carry whenever I visit NV because it’s the only time I get to.
I lived in NJ for 25 years, now in PA for 6. I observed 2 open-carriers in NJ:
Patronizing my neighborhood Dunkin Donuts (nearby the Catholic girls’ high school) I noticed a middle-aged lady standing in front of me; mostly, I was admiring the butt of her six-shooter. After a couple of days I asked her if she was a cop. She replied in the affirmative. I observed that she wasn’t in uniform (I pick up on every subtlety). She replied that she was a detective.
None of the dozen high school girls paid any attention to the six-shooter-toten lady.
In the other case I was standing in like to pay a fine at a court house. The young lady in front of me was toten a Glock. I asked her if she were a cop. She replied that she was not.
The lady at the counter who took my fine confirmed my conjecture that the young woman in front of me was an armored car driver. No one in the hallway paid any attention to her; at least, not to the butt of her Glock.
I suspect that passersby’s reactions are apt to be taken on the totality of the circumstances. Is the open carrier:
– male or female;
– dressed in business attire; business casual; . . . camo;
– apparently going about his/her business in a normal manner apart – exclusively – from carrying a firearm openly in a holster or case;
– accompanied by family members, especially children;
Although NJ is a NO-carry-whatsoever state, these two women didn’t ignite any alarm. They were women, not men. In business-casual clothes, not camo. Going about their business normally, apart from the holstered guns on their hips.
Practitioners of open-carry ought to think about whether their objective is to create alarm; or, to create a positive impression for the practice of open-carry.
“I observed that she wasn’t in uniform (I pick up on every subtlety).”
That was funny! I belly laughed. Thanks. 🙂
“Practitioners of open-carry ought to think about whether their objective is to create alarm; or, to create a positive impression for the practice of open-carry.”
You forgot about those of us who are simply going about our day with no real objective other than everyday life. For the most part, that’s the category my offspring and I fall into these days. We are just going about life and we do all open carry as our normal mode of being armed. Sometimes, I’m doing physical labor around the yard and am dressed in tattered, distressed clothing. I probably look like a homeless bum (without the sores and smell). Most of the time, it’s my regular, urban partisan, lower-middle class attire.
“”””your palm resting on the gun’s grip (like LEOs like to do when speaking with you, for intimidation),”””
Awww nope….not intimidation…its called GUN RETENTION! So your dumb ass does not make a grab at it!
OBOB, I don’t know what the LEOs in your area use, but in mine they’ve used triple retention holsters for quite a while now. You could try to grab a cop’s gun all you want, and you won’t get it. But you *will* get a whooping for trying.
I’ve had enough conversations with uniformed LEOs (both as friendlies and otherwise) to notice that their hands go to resting position on their guns whenever they want to convey an image of authority. If they feel at ease, they almost never do it.
Several personal experiences that mirror yours.
It has much more to do with making threats toward citizens. We should disarm cops until they remember that they work for us and have no privilege to give citizens orders.
Most of the time, it’s neither a concern for retention (I’ve never heard of that and it’s certainly not how I was trained, hand-on-gun is not an interview position), or usually an intentional act of intimidation. I have seen it used as that, but most of the time, it’s simple convenience.
Gun belts are heavy and cumbersome. Body armor, even soft armor, makes it harder to cross your arms, and you don’t want to hide your camera or appear rude. So if you are standing around for a while, talking to someone, where to you put your hands?
Where everyone else does, on your hip. But there’s a gun in the way, so you naturally rest your hand there. The vast majority of time, that’s all this position is, somebody trying to be comfortable.
Officers should keep in mind that this position (justifiably) scares people and scared people are unpredictable.
One thousand times this.
I even find myself doing it, on my M9 previously, and my M17 now.
It’s just purely for comfort in the vast majority of situations.
It’s that way in my local Walmart, as well. I’ve come in out of the woods in full camo, .44 on my hip, barely a second look as I’m one of several. That said, I don’t think I’d do it now, things are just too tense and why would I want to have to deal with police or defend myself and what I’m doing? Not worth it, I put what I’m carrying it in my pocket now in Walmart.
They make AR pistol leg holsters, even M4 holsters for big people. They aren’t too popular but are used sometimes in the military when people are required to carry their rifle around for asinine / formal reasons but its just getting in the way.
” If they want to know how educated cops are on gun laws, they should simply walk up and ask them ”
Better yet, put on that body armor and sling that AR over their shoulder and walk into a police station. They’ll get a very fast education.
Look for WallyWorld to put up “no gun” signs. THAT’LL make ‘ya safe😄No open carry in ILLinois. And lots of twitterpatting goes on in nearby Indiana when the muggles spot it. My local IN Comcast office has a “safezone” no gunz allowed after some open carry boy’s upset the weenies…😫
Perhaps, but Walmart’s in tight competition with Amazon and is operating on a razor-thin profit margin while Amazon’s getting stronger. They don’t want to lose any customers, and they undoubtedly know that making any public policy announcement (for or against) at this time will alienate enough people on either side of the issue to spark boycotts. I think they’ll try to remain silent on this for as long as they can, as they hope that the recent string of copy-cat idiots (whether “2A auditors” or actual dangerous shooters) play themselves out.
I haz an answer…a sign on the door will be their “announcement”😄Amazon has squat to do with the hordes of poor/lower middle class folks who jam the aisles of Wal-Mart!
I’m packing on Amazon all the time.
Yes. Corporate will simply make all wal marts GFZ’s. Just like they’re eliminating all night camper parking on most of their stores, if not all.
“eliminating all night camper parking”
How is that bad exactly? Isn’t it just the criminals and hobos camping in the parking lots?
No, not unless you think being homeless is a crime. Some 20 years ago I volunteered at amateur rodeos around the mid west and often “camped out” at Wally Worlds on my way to avoid paying for a motel just to sleep in for a few hours. And more recently spent some time homeless after I was evicted for having my trained, well mannered, and well behaved dogs off leash from my car to the apartment door. Now most of the folks “camping” at Wal-Mart are retired couples who sold their home and are “Boon-docking” around the country in RVs.
That hasn’t been my experience. I’ve always travelled a lot for work and back when I couldn’t afford a hotel room, I would usually spend the night in my truck in a Walmart parking lot. I was rarely the only one doing so.
Walmart locations in SoCal banned it last year.
Huh, OK, I’ve literally never heard of it being considered normal or acceptable to poach parking spots like that. Carry on I guess.
“unless you think being homeless is a crime”
Read and comprehend please, I explicitly separated criminals in my post.
Back in the day they kind of encouraged this. It was good pr and the mostly travelers and vacationers invariably bought stuff there. I can certainly see why that may not be feasible these days
They used to encourage it. This wasn’t people living in tents or boxes. People would park their RVs and 5th wheels at the edges of the parking lot. They’d get free camp space without services, and Walmart would probably get extra customer traffic as the campers came in for supplies, breakfast, thanks, etc. Walmarts used to be 24 hr around here, but almost all are 5-midnight now.
The three within short driving distance from my home have all been 6am-midnight since at least 2000.
Banning overnight parking/camping is a lose-lose proposition: it’s a loss for the people who can afford to travel the country that way, and it’s a loss for the stores because the first thing most of those campers did each morning was head into the store and buy things.
I’ve gotten lots of miles out of Walmart parking lots: parking there for a night meant saving a chunk of money that could go for gas to go farther to see more of the country. And in every case the stores had a designated zone for travelers to land in — and in all cases but one, the group gathered in that zone made delightful company, a couple of times even making a sunset potluck-type meal together.
And no, there weren’t any homeless, or at least not more than two nights in a row, which was the limit at every one of those stores.
“in every case the stores had a designated zone for travelers to land in”
See, I wondered if I was missing something. I’d never heard of this (obvs it’s not common anywhere I’ve lived) but if true then it’s a totally different animal.
After the MO incident, Walmart made two statements about that subject and in both they said that they were not going to post at their stores.
Obviously the people who live in those states with open carry legality, need to be educated. Just think, if we had universal open carry, the cretins who did the shooting in El Paso and other states, would have a very short lifespan if they opened fire in an environment with multiple, legal firearms bearers. I hope that the legislators in all these United States will wise up and realize that the right to carry is a Constitutionally guaranteed right that was given to mankind basically, from the beginning of time.
Nice pistol and belt in picture.
Could there be an visual element with open carry?
Person has super nice Wilson or similar, dressed nice = no problem. Person has a Glock=cop/agent. Person with engraved over/under=rich. Person with AR=run.
Perhaps, so why not have some fun and colorize one of your ARs in red, white, and blue, or perhaps in pink for the missus? Or can you imagine a gold-and-red one in a full Marvel’s Iron Man theme, with the Iron Man helmet etched and colored appropriately on the receiver? Kids will get a kick out of it as you stand in front of them in line, with it safely slung on your back, where it’s cannot be perceived as a threat and you cannot ever be charged with brandishing.
What’s that, you say? We don’t want kids to get the wrong idea and think guns are toys? Of course not…that’s the whole idea of taking them to the range and teaching them.
Personally, I’ve set aside one of my ARs for a possible gray camo treatment with “We The People” and the Preamble emblazoned across it. Maybe an oil dip.
I have a red mag release button on my ‘go-to’ AR but that about the extent of it.
sorta fuddish in that respect I guess.
“Don’t frighten the
– M. Ayoob
I won’t open carry, because if I need to use it, I want it to come as a complete surprise to others.
Sounds like most criminals.
I prefer that those with criminal intent steer clear of me. Open carry has certainly made that happen. Avoiding shooting someone unecessarily is my desired outcome.
I have open carried, as is protected under the Constitution of my State, in all sorts of places. Banks, Walmarts, supermarkets. Always a handgun, holstered at the right hip. Never had a problem. Seen others do so routinely, it is a common sight.
Mostly though, I prefer concealed. In fact I carried in movie theaters for years before they began posting those “FREE KILL ZONE” signs at the entrances. Now I stay out of movie theaters because those signs scare me more than movie ticket and snack bar prices.
I agree it’s a poor time to haul a long gun around a Walmart while dressed up in a load bearing vest or body armor. Personally, I’d bring back the idea of the village stocks. Do something sufficiently stupid, you get put in the stocks for the public to gawk at you and throw rotten vegetables.
This would work especially well at Walmarts, as they sell groceries there. So, a good supply of veggies always at hand.
Exactly! it should also be the standard for a federal representative who gets recalled by their state, pension embezzlers, and pre-court hearing for drug dealers.
Less incarceration (criminal justice reform), less expense, and we get tough on crime – all at once!
If you’re dressed nicely and carrying a pistol on your hip, probably 90% of people aren’t going to give you a second look. They’re just going to assume you’re a cop in plainclothes. Actually, POTG will be the only ones giving you another look, just to see what kind of equipment you’re totin’! There’s also the fact that at least 90% of the people are operating in Condition White at all times, anyways.
Where it legal to Open Carry, its fine to do it in the normal course of your daily activities. Here’s the problem: When you Open Carry specifically to get a “reaction” say a “Social Experiment”, the person has shifted away from normal OC. Now, the person is deliberately inciting a reaction: he is responsible for that reaction. It can be disturbing the peace, communicating a Threat or in the above case making a Terrorist Threat. No doubt this OCer told LE or Posted his intent for a Social Experiment thereby providing motive for actions that now a far beyond routine OC. Another dumbass.
To all these “In your face” gun toters: if your’e carrying for any other purpose than what is allowed buy law, your not making a favorable impression and in fact create not only a negative impression to those nearby but often end up in the public spotlight with a large anti-gun media ready to twist anything into bad publicity. Don’t feed the monkeys!
The Left has bastardized the term common sense. So just thing about what the hell your doing before you fall on your sword.
Will Drider said and I agree, “Don’t feed the monkeys!
The Left has bastardized the term common sense. So just thing about what the hell your doing before you fall on your sword.”
Just because it is legal doesn’t mean it is smart, prudent, wise or the proper thing to do. Who was this fellow conducting a “social experiment” for? How did his experiment help him or POTG? Carrying a log gun in Walmart or around town really does not make any good sense. Think about what real purpose(s) this type of activity serves? The left has enough pseudo ammo, let’s not supply them with more!
I have open carried a few times and only 1 person questioned me. Little old lady who asked if I was law enforcement.
Summer is IWB as all I have on is pants and a tee shirt. I go anywhere that’s legal and no one knows.
Winter time is OWB with a thumb snap holster. It’s covered with a jacket and still no one has really noticed.
Right now, public perception is that guns are bad and if you have one openly displayed, you’re a danger. Especially after a few shootings.
I support open carry but doing “social experiments” may not be the way to do it.
Just my 02¢
“Shopper Clennon Jones said he saw officers speed into the parking lot and one jumped out with shotgun in hand.”
And this is why I far prefer to carry concealed. It only takes one busybody to call the police on you, and any LEO response to a report of an armed individual is naturally going to be a tense situation even in the best of scenarios.
We still open carry side arms in Kentucky and Tennessee. No problems here. Because you do it in a non threatening way. Be polite. Being courteous to strangers while open carrying is what is missing in the minds of to many gun owners. It don’t take many to screw it up for the rest of us.
We open carry in Ohio as well. It’s been legal here since at least 1851.
“It don’t take many to screw it up for the rest of us. ”
*Roll eyes* Don’t save me a seat in the back of the bus. Just git on back there.
If it was a smart move or not is incidental. People in open carry states need to be reconditioned. Even at the cost of a few carriers being slightly inconvenienced
WI has been an OC state LONG before it became a CC state…in 2011 CC legislation was passed and certain laws(disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace and other “catch all” laws) were changed or adjusted for OC…
It’s been my experience while OC’ing that most do not even notice(completely unaware) that you’re carrying and those that do are either curious or just don’t care…
I carry a SiG 1911 RCS Sport in a Kirkpatrick Leather OWB with 2 spare magazines in a Kirkpatrick leather mag holder, and rarely if ever has anyone noticed while I’m OC’ing, and those that have, ask about the gun…
FWIW, Missouri doesn’t have a law against open carry but Kansas city (as well as parts of st louis and cape gerardiue) does have a law, my understanding is the local laws are over ridden IF you have a ccw permit. Know before you go folks.
For those interested in Missouri open carry:
Local laws do tend to be troublesome, especially for out of state folks. When in doubt, simple keep it covered or lock it up in your safe.
It would have been a GREATER panic if they walked into a Whole Foods or Target. The avocado toast eating crowd would have defecated in their draws.
At the beginning of the article it said that the man in Missouri was wearing load bearing gear. In The last paragraph it said body armor. It was load bearing gear. They need to get there facts straight.
“They need to get there facts straight.”
To what purpose?
I live near two Walmarts. Neither restricts open or concealed carry and both are in the same Constitutional carry state. The one north of town I will call the upscale or university Walmart and the one south of town I will call the redneck Walmart. Interestingly, as an aside, some selected prices are higher in the upscale Walmart, but none are lower. As a result I shop in the redneck Walmart a little more. My background as an educated local facilitates getting along pretty well in either. I hold a permit and have carried concealed in both. Several years ago, when it was still fairly new there was a family feud style shooting in the parking lot of the redneck Walmart accompanied by lots of publicity.
I gave up on social experiments with my last Psychology class long ago, but I would be willing to bet that if I strapped on a full sized handgun, so it would be noticed, and walked into the upscale Walmart somebody would call the police. Meantime in the redneck Walmart, maybe three or a little less airline miles away, I see open carry of Glock 17 scale handguns occasionally and nobody blinks.
Anyone who watched that and didn’t think, “Wow, he’s just like that idiot in Springfield, Missouri!” can’t be a friend of mine – or the Second Amendment. His “Macho, Macho Man” act probably frightened at least half of the people in the store into favoring a complete abrogation of the Second Amendment. It’s one thing to carry a pistol or revolver for your God-given self-protection and something else entirely to sling on a long gun (or a so-called “assault rifle”) to demonstrate just how “cool” you are. “Cool” isn’t scaring the crap out of people – what that is called is “STUPID”. Thanks for posting that, CKNARF. I hope it registers with those who take an attitude of “My rights, right or wrong”.
‘It’s one thing to carry a pistol or revolver for your God-given self-protection and something else entirely to sling on a long gun (or a so-called “assault rifle”) to demonstrate just how “cool” you are. “Cool” isn’t scaring the crap out of people – what that is called is “STUPID”.’
Is it your position that someone cannot also carry a long gun for their unalienable right to self-protection, then? Does it have to be “to demonstrate just how cool you are”? Are you sure that you aren’t projecting your own feelings onto someone else? (i.e. You believe that the only reason you would carry a long gun is so you would demonstrate how cool you are. Therefore, you believe that to be the case with everyone else.)
I am very glad you are not my friend. With friends like you, who needs leftists? You do the job all by yourself like a good little servant.
If you’re going to open carry, whether a handgun or a rifle, whether as a statement or just because it’s Tuesday, the key might be to be smart about it. Make an effort to look nonthreatening.
Wear pants, even a nice pair of jeans is fine, but no tactical or cargo pants. Some kind of tucked in shirt is preferable to a t-shirt, but if it must be a t-shirt, I’d try to avoid black or anything with symbols or wording that is going to be misinterpreted. Nothing overtly political.
A plus might be to go out of your way to interact with people in a friendly way. If nothing else, you could use the store video of your attire and behavior to rebut the charge that you’re there making a terroristic threat or acting in a manner “calculated to cause alarm”, as Texas law reads. It’d be hard for them to make that case if you’re on video in a pair of chinos and a polo shirt, casually sharing a laugh in the ice cream section with some random soccer mom with her kids in tow.
Mesh thong works for me.
Wisdom right there.
…and you don’t walk around palming the grip as a handrest.
I just got back from my local walmart. Open carried my sidearm as usual. Wearing jean shorts, blue T-shirt with a pocket. Pushing a cart as I went into the store. People smiled at me. I smile back. Spent about 20 minutes in the store.
Nobody screamed “black man with a gun”. No police car sirens. Just a normal day in a Free State.
It’s not normal to shop with a long gun. But we had many people carrying rifles at “The Second Amendment is Homeland Security tour” Near Nashville TN. Several hundred people with american flags, state flags, carrying 1st and 2nd Amendment signs, and carrying long guns.
Lonely gun owners with no friends shouldn’t be open carrying a long gun by themselves.
“It’s not going to do us any good if we’re not carrying that gun,” Bristol said on Saturday to a crowd of 500 gathered outside the parking lot of D.T. McCall and Sons furniture and appliance store in Lebanon, Tennessee on the fifth stop of the WWTN radio talk show host’s ‘The Second Amendment is Homeland Security’ tour.”
I have to wear pants?!?! Aw, shit. There goes my plans for the weekend.
Its ok if you at least wear a belt
Cool. Weekend plans are back on then!
Of course he will wear a belt. Otherwise he’d have no where to clip his holster.
At least belt. Then people will focus on his sidearm instead his appendix carry “gun”.
I agree its legal but as my Dear ol’ Dad used to tell me, “Just because you can, don’t mean you should”. The handguns, shouldn’t really have alarmed anyone and the cops followed up as they are required to and de-escalated the situation. But the AR and Tac gear right after the shooting in El Paso seems a bit foolish. Ain’t always a matter of right and wrong. Sometimes we need to make sure our lifestyle promotes the right positive value of firearms.
What is the gun in the picture?
My STI DVC Carry.
That’s a sweet gat, JW
I have opened carry for years. I get a lot of positive comments.
I was in my local Wal-mart twice the day after the shooting carrying a nice shiny full sized stainless 1911.
Not a word said no nashing of teeth, no yelling, fainting women or crying children.
Over the years I had several Wal-mart employee’s say nice gun glad to see you are carrying.
I have even seen other carry there with out problems.,
Same in Ohio.
After reading a couple more comments, some of this can have to do with how you interact with others and the police when they show up. I walked out of a Chinese restaurant a few years ago with a friend who was open carrying, we both have CCDWs. As it turns out a LEO was waiting on us. the report was from someone who walked by and saw us eating and him wearing a gun. We were polite, he was polite, we followed all instructions, waited patiently and then had a nice afternoon as he let us go on our way. It went well to the point he didn’t even disarm us. We broke no laws, had no complaints from the business. Since it was called in the LEO responded and did his job. But if someone was cocky or confrontational it could have been a different situation.
How we present ourselves to the public can make all the difference. I was in Pizza Hut one night for the buffet. Black Jeans and a pro-American t-shirt open carrying a 1911. (Second of the month – Second Amendment tie in.) A elderly woman stopped at the table and thanked me for being there armed, said it made her feel safer. So did one of the staff, they are 200′ from the town police station and had been robbed twice in five years. You run into both kinds. Most of the time they don’t know I’m armed, its a tactical advantage for me.
On what authority would he have disarmed you?
I wonder if POTG themselves treat their own 2A, 4A, and 5A rights like they’re privileges.
I have heard from others, that it is not uncommon to have the LEO remove and clear your weapon while they follow up on the complaint to ensure ‘their’ safety. It did not happen to us and I cannot say what the standard procedure for that is. They didn’t even ask if I was carrying and by state law I am not required to tell them unless asked. The whole thing took less than five minutes, both LEOs were cool about it. Show some ID, one spoke with the manager while the other talked guns and motorcycles with us outside. They were doing their job and we understood that. Would it have happened if we were in dress clothes and ties? Maybe, maybe not, but we were out on our motorcycles and appearances may have made a difference to the lady that reported us. Should it be a problem. No. Should it get called in? No. Should I have to pay so much in taxes? No. It is just something we live with. I a perfect world it wouldn’t happen. In a perfect world we wouldn’t feel the need to carry firearms (but we still would).
What ever happened to our intrepid social experimentor? He was clearly carrying his AR in conformity with the law and making no threats. The cellphone video been released, it at least information on the contents, and it showed exactly what he claimed. So are they going try him with no evidence to support the charge or is there a plea bargain for something like disorderly conduct in the works. I mean, don’t you have to actual make a terroristic threat to be a considered a terrorist?
I suspect there’s no rush (its a cool-off period) to come to a conclusion. A conclusion will give other potential social experimenters guidance on how to proceed.
Nothing wrong with open carry. Just know the laws in your state. I grew up in Kentucky an open carry and open car carry state. Everyone I knew open carried and open car carried. People just need to see more open carriers because people have gotten accustomed to not see firearms regularly on a person in normal everyday outings. Just follow the law and be nice. We can get people used to seeing firearms again in this country if we do it right. We might win over more people to our side on the 2nd Amendment.
Sometimes, a little common sense is necessary.
Kentucky is a true open carry and open car carry state. Open carry is part of the states constitution in Kentucky. Other states open carry laws are unusually a piece of legislation passed by the state that can be over turned easily if political parties change in a given state. State constitutions are usually harder to change.
Open carry in Ohio is based upon the Ohio Constitution. There is no law “legalizing” it. Unfortunately in the early 2000s, there was such a big push for concealed carry licensing instead of just removing the little bit of law prohibiting it that we ended up with a sort of split in the RKBA here. Open carry is viewed as a right while concealed carry is viewed as a privilege. The big rub, in my opinion, is no open carry in/on motor vehicles in Ohio. A bag of meth under the seat is considered concealed and on the seat is considered in the open. However, a loaded firearm under the seat or on the seat is considered concealed. That takes some serious mental gymnastics to tell the citizens of Ohio with a straight face.
The open carry in Ohio was a joke as far back as the 50’s, I know I have lived here since the 40’s. Once at a gun show I asked a local cop in the town where we had our gun show about what would happen to me if I tried open carry in his town. He laughed and read off a list of ways he could arrest me and said he would and make the charges stick.
I once knew a bar owner that took a big bag of money to his bank down town and when walking with a gun on his hip the cops surrounded him (back in the 60’s before mass shootings) and he damn near got his head blown off. No they did not arrest him but they could have and they told him so right to his face. Even though he was a nut case from way back he had sense enough not to pull that stunt ever again. So much for Ohio’s old laws that the Cops did not bother to respect. As on Cop told me “We do not uphold the law, we are the law and we make it up as we go along”. I give him the credit for being honest about it.
You need to get with the times, Vlad. We did a lot of work to get departmental policies and training updated. Only the Fudds still think one will be arrested for merely open carrying. Nowadays, law enforcement completely ignores me and I’m fine with that.
Lying again, vlad? Just yesterday you said you were a young man in the 1970s. Now you were in Ohio in the 40s. You never attended a gun show and you never talked to a cop.
Vlad is a vampire do he had been around for a couple of millenia.
John in Ohio says:
August 19, 2019 at 17:02
You need to get with the times, Vlad. We did a lot of work to get departmental policies and training updated. Only the Fudds still think one will be arrested for merely open carrying. Nowadays, law enforcement completely ignores me and I’m fine with that.
You might get away with that in Rural Ohio but not where I live. The gun show conversation I had with a Cop was rather recent and he did know it was legal to carry openly but indicated he did not care that it was.
August 19, 2019 at 18:16
Lying again, vlad? Just yesterday you said you were a young man in the 1970s. Now you were in Ohio in the 40s. You never attended a gun show and you never talked to a cop.
You just proved you flunked math class too. Your a laugh a minute and do not even realize it.
“You might get away with that in Rural Ohio but not where I live.”
I live in a hood in Cincinnati, Vlad. I’ve also been all over Ohio. Like I stated, get with the times, man!
BTW: If you’re in or near Cincinnati, let’s get together for coffee. However, I suspect you are near Cleveland or Toledo.
I’ve been reading the Buckeye Firearms website for years now. They have lots of great information and history. Good stuff in Ohio.
Good. Thanks for carrying, Chris.
I once open carried on The Strip in LV just to see what might transpire since the LV Metro had to eat crow after illegally hassling a legal open carrier/activist (Metro had to pay him off and “re-educate” its officers). FYI, OC without any license is legal in NV and, besides, I also had a nonresident NV CCW.
So what happened? Nada. No cop interaction, no civilian panic. Which suited me just fine.
After the recent mass murder in LV, I wouldn’t do it again. At least, not for a while. But I still conceal carry on The Strip.
If somebody starts shooting, then feel free to panic and wet your pants. Until then, STFU.
Lawyer Andrew Branca (author of The Law of Self Defense) makes the point that context is everything. Open carry is fine at Shooters Grill in Rifle, Colorado where the staff carry and customers are encouraged to do the same. It’s not wise in major cities where it’s so uncommon that many people go into hysterics at the sight.
I live in a midwestern city whose metropolitan population approaches one million. Open carry is legal with a permit. In forty years, I have encountered exactly one person carrying openly and, although I didn’t see a badge, the logo on his shirt implied a connection to law enforcement. I did read about a guy who carried because of threats from a gang. He had to carry openly because concealed carry was not yet legal. Police responded to a store where he was shopping and, after checking his permit, let him go about his business. It was other customers, not the store staff, who had reported him to 911.
Many people are selfish and narrow minded. They are convinced that their personal lifestyle is the right and proper one. It should be encouraged and even subsidized. Any other lifestyle deserves no more than amused tolerance, if it’s harmless, or discouraged if it can harm those who live it. If there is any way it can have an adverse effect on those who who live the “right way”, it needs to be stamped out. Think of the Taliban mindset applied to subjects other than religion.
There is a crackpot in my town who rides a bicycle, hates cars and argues forcefully that the speed limit on residential streets should be no more then 10 mph. No one else agrees with him, not because they are car enthusiasts who enjoy driving and work hard at doing it well, but because they don’t want to drive 10 mph themselves. If they didn’t own cars, I doubt they would have any objection to a 10 mph limit. It would be someone else, not them, who suffers. It’s the same with guns.
The hell with commie snowflakes! Its a part our founding and Country!
People need to get used to everybody carrying a gun on them the only way to defend ur family…otherwise just paint a target on ur back and say KILL ME PLEASE!!!!!!!! The End!
Carry everywhere u can were its not a felony and boycott everyplace that does not allow u to carry and talk to the Manager or leave a card for the Manager telling them u will not hand over money to businesses who don’t believe in self defense of ur family!
Follow for updates and links to contact all ur reps!
A couple of things come to mind regarding this fiasco:
1. Surprisingly, the police didn’t shoot anyone, especially someone who was doing NOTHING in violation of law.
2. One wonders exactly what was called in or reported to the police.
3. Turning in a false fire alarm is a crime, a criminal act. How about making what might well be a blatantly false police report. See item 2 above.
“Turning in a false fire alarm is a crime, a criminal act. ”
Uuhhh, “If you see something, say something” seems to have that covered.
See something, say something =/= See something, do something
Pulling a fire alarm when their was no fire was not the same thing as “See something, say something.” Calling 911 would’ve been more in line with government snitch propaganda.
“See something, say something =/= See something, do something”
Thinking the original question regarded causing a disturbance by “reporting” to police that someone was walking around with a long gun in a store withing hours of two mass shootings. The query was whether the person making the report could be held accountable for filing a false report with police.
Not understanding how malicious triggering of a fire alarm fits the stream of the question at hand.
I thought the false fire alarm comment was originally in reference to the MO incident. In that situation, a manager pulled the fire alarm.
” thought the false fire alarm comment was originally in reference to the MO incident. In that situation, a manager pulled the fire alarm.”
Ah, yes. Lost that string in the conversation.
Did a customer call or a wal mart employee? If the former, the question should have been “well, what are they doing”
-uh, they’ve got a gun!
“are they holding it?”
“so what are they DOING?”
-like… walking around! SEND POLLLICE!”
“No. If you feel unsafe, leave.”
If it was an employee they should be fired.
There is a story, set in a rural state, about a call to 911.
Caller: There is a man with a gun inside —–. Send police!
911 operator: That’s not necessarily illegal. What’s he doing? Is he threatening anyone?
Caller: He’s just shopping. But he has a gun!
911 operator after several seconds of silence: You’re not from around here are you.
I’ve heard that a couple of times on the P25 scanner in urban Cincinnati. The patrol officer usually asks if they are doing anything else, otherwise, it’s a legal activity and they are not going to respond. So much departmental training seems to have paid off. I think dispatch is batting down most of those calls these days so it doesn’t even go out to patrol.
Ironically, in rural SW Ohio, I would hear many calls on the scanner for a person walking down the street with a flashlight. Remember, there are very few street lights around there so a flashlight is prudent most nights. County would respond to all of those calls. The few “man with a gun” calls got any attention other than for road patrol to have the dispatcher ask if they were doing anything illegal with the firearm. However, their training wasn’t always so good. Others and I had to do a lot of open carry and involvement with county and city government to get them to change policies and update training.
When it comes to the Far Right you certainly have to give these two complete idiots the “Moron of the year award”. Anyone who is able to think with any logic would have known they stood a very real risk of being gunned down in a hail of police gun fire for pulling an idiotic stunt like that so close to the last 2 mass shootings.
oh, shut up. The only people who make it a stunt is people like you. Why do you even come here? You don’t agree with anything this site represents. Do you lack the ability to practice what you preach online, so you just pull the typical facebooker and find negative shit you disagree with to get your release from? It’s rhetorical. The answer is obviously yes.
quote——————–Why do you even come here? You don’t agree with anything this site represents.—————–
Its called Freedom of Speech something the Far Right people like you would be first to totally ban. Hitler did it and so would you.
So yes, you come here for the reason I stated. I am all for freedom of speech dude… but keep in mind that your beloved hitler also banned guns and well, we know how that worked out, right? How many of your other socialist hero’s “ban” free speech?
Lol. You just failed miserably trying to look smart there buddy. +1
Most police officers are familiar with gun laws in their jurisdictions. If open carry is legal, they don’t automatically freak out when they encounter someone doing that. Their response will depend on the armed individual’s behavior. If he is calm and cooperative, they will check him out and enforce whatever laws apply. They won’t start shooting unless he looks and acts like a violent criminal or mental case about to start murdering people.
I’ve watched videos of police interacting with guys who go armed legally with the goal of provoking a police response. They check them out but don’t arrest them. Mostly, they try to persuade them to stop so that their time isn’t wasted on bullshit calls from citizens who don’t know the difference between legal and illegal.
not always true. Some police seriously over react to open carry advocated. There are more of those videos than the ones who are “cool with it”. Either way, the only thing they should be doing is minding their own business.
This is so fucking stupid. Now walmart will have a nice new “no ccw” sign posted up front for the rest of us. Thanks assholes.
As I posted upstream, Walmart made two statements on the subject after the MO open carry incident and both statements were clear that they were not going to ban carry, open or concealed, handgun or long gun, in their stores where carry of such is legal.
The simple solution to avoid getting your panties in a twist… If a business doesn’t want you to carry, don’t go there. Spend your money elsewhere.
‘nice new “no ccw” sign’
You know open carry is a thing, right? Fudds are a huge problem. Thanks assholes.
The only incident aside from the actual shooting that occured, is created by leftist idiots trying to push their agenda.
I thought about this some more today while working outside. Do you know what the real problem is? Back when I went to school, those over 18 had deer guns in their rear pickup truck window. They often got out of first and last class during hunting season as well. There used to be shooting teams at schools as well. When you went down town, there were trucks with lever actions and shotguns in the rear window. Half of them not locked and windows down. Nobody stole them and nobody was worried about them, most of us didn’t give them a second thought.
Society done got civilized and crime went up. Now too many people are scared of guns and think we should all follow suite. Too many big wig with armed guards want the rest of us who can afford armed guards to give up our God given right.
Where I grew up as well, always seemed to be a long gun in the truck window.
Times have sure changed.
I don’t understand “open carry”. why show off and cause the non-gun people to get excited? the weapon is not a toy nor a show and tell object. it is a last-ditch emergency tool that should be kept secret. I go concealed whenever I can, and no one is the sider. The most dangerous, trained people I know are discreet and you would not even know it until that last second..
‘I don’t understand “open carry”. ‘
Deterrence and normalization. So much Fuddery in your comment. Jeez.
“the weapon is not a toy nor a show and tell object.”
You are projecting.
So much FUDD here… sickening coming from a marine. Guess that’s what happens when you eat to many crayons.
Open Carry is legal in PA, except in Philadelphia. Where I live, the Lehigh Valley, I have only ever seen one person open carry (other than at a local Trump rally); that was at the local Wegmans. He was leaving the store as I was entering; was walking briskly and seemed tense. It made me wonder if his demeanor was related to some reception that occurred in the store.
While open carry is perfectly legal here, you don’t see it. Not sure why. Maybe the Lehigh Valley has become to suburbanized. As for me, I prefer concealed (well, as concealed as Sneaky Pete can be, anyway).
…Should have been “too suburdanized”. Mrs. Froelich, my 6th grade grammar teacher would have haunted me for that one. 🙂
How the hell do you still remember your 6th grade teachers name? The only thing I remember from that era is (I think it was 8th grade) the Thong Song because my english teacher wore one every day.
It’s legal to open carry in Philly. Lots of us have done it. State law specifies that a License To Carry Firearms is required to carry concealed, in a vehicle, during a declared state of emergency (like the opioid emergency we are currently under), and in a city of the first class (defined as a population of 1 million or more, currently only Philly).
You have lots of OCers in the Lehigh Valley as well.
Since both Allentown and Philly have been sued over it the popo shouldn’t be bothering anyone with a handgun OCed in a holster.
We had an OC march in Philly in 2010 from city hall IIRC to the Liberty Bell. Somewhere on pafoa.org there is a thread about that if you want to check into it.
Christ almighty, you pants wetting bliss ninnies make me wonder how we ever held on to the few freedoms we still have.
Lots of people open carry handguns in holsters, which is what 2 of the 3 guys in the story were doing. What if you yellow pantsed scaredy cat concealed carriers accidentally expose your gun reaching for something on the top shelf? You’d better not carry at all or some mom who needs more action might faint at the sight of your heater while you’re reaching for sour cream and pickle pringles. What if you’re taking a dump and some soy boy walks in to use the urinal and sees your by your ankles under the edge of the stall and doesn’t quite make it to his destination before completing his intended action? You’d better just leave it at home.
If anything we should all be walking around with long guns on our backs to make the point that guns are a right and we are not giving them up.
Wow. I hope you meant that in all kindness and in consideration. 🙂
Of course, and with all due respect too 😉
It touches a nerve with me when our own people spout nonsense about open carry that is straight from the antis. I don’t mean rifle carry within days of a multiple mass murders, I mean pistol in a holster. I started doing it 11 years ago in Allentown. I gave it up after some health problems, but in my time I carried all over the Lehigh Valley, Philly, and Central PA for years.
Best post on this article.
Let us not make it about open carry vs concealed carry. Because open carry is and was a right in most states for a long time and concealed carry is relatively new in the context of things. Concealed carry is allowed with permission of a given state, which states also give permission to open carry with restrictions. Constitutional carry does not always cover open carry in a given state if passed. If, a state did not have open carry at all you are restricted to concealed carry as your only option and the concealed carry is for pistols only. Constitutional carry can also be just as restrictive depending on the state you live in. If, we do not exercise our rights to open carry in the states that allow it, eventually concealed carry will be the only option left and by permission of the state we reside in. Kentucky wrapped its great open carry and open car carry laws into the Constitutional Carry bill that was passed a few months ago. Nothing really changed for people in Kentucky except they were allowed to conceal carry any weapon and not just a pistol. Constitutional carry in most other states have always be focused on pistol concealed carry. Living in Illinois has opened my eyes to how restrictive states are and can be with their gun control laws that do not work and do not punish criminals that commit crimes. Only us law-abiding residence of these restrictive states pay the price. Practice your rights to open carry where you can and when you can.
“Practice your rights to open carry where you can and when you can.”
Which should be everywhere.
Aye. It should.
Open carry at this time just “show’s your hand”… you’ve let the bad guy know you’re the one he’s going to shoot first. It’ll take more than half the people walkin’ about open armed before I’d join in. We’d all be amongst ourselves watching each others back. Else wise we’re out numbered.
“Open carry at this time just “show’s your hand”… you’ve let the bad guy know you’re the one he’s going to shoot first.”
Repeating a myth doesn’t make it true. If this were the reality, my friends and I would’ve been dead long ago. Leftists like to repeat their myths and lies, also. It doesn’t make their bullshit any more true either.
Put down the kool-aid dude.
I see all the FUDDS making their normal comments, ” We know its your right just don’t ever use it, that will show people how respectful you are to Liberal Hysteria…………….” Ive heard this BS since the 90s, its why the GOP has no balls and their Spines only appear when they want more money for themselves.
In the context of open carry, most here are only focused on the open carry of pistols. Not many states allow you to open carry any firearm. Why be so restrictive in what you carry? Most states have already decide that for you. Just be glad there are a few states left where you are not restricted on what firearm you carry. Kentucky does allow any firearm to be openly carried without many restrictions. We should not be restrictive in our minds to just focus on just pistols to be the only option to be openly carried. Choice what you want to openly carry within the laws of your state because it is not stupid to do so like others have said in their comments. Concealed carry did not come to Illinois until after 2013 and Illinois did not have an option to open carry at all. So, do not tell people what they can not carry or how they decide to carry. It is counter productive. We live in America after all and we are allow to choice how we may carry within our laws.
In my OK town, the Target store put up “no guns” signs; after a short time without customers (who went to Wal-mart), they took the signs down.
From a tactical standpoint, I prefer to carry concealed in stores. In the unlikely event that a bad guy sees me before I see him, I could imagine that seeing my weapon might make me his first target. To me, there’s just more value in being discreet.
I hope customers of Wal-Mart and other stores give good feedback assuring the stores that everyone is safer with law-abiding customers carrying their weapons. As with most mass shootings (many of which were in “gun free” zones), armed citizenry is the one factor that could have saved the most lives.
The problem is not the slight chance you will get noticed by an adrenaline fueled criminal singling out OWBers in a crowd… it’s OWBing simply because it’s the only way people will realize that the gun is not the problem. If you are around a “gun grabber” for an entire month, every day, and you OWB everywhere you go, then their mind will literally explode because… NOTHING HAPPENS. The only way to shift the current narrative that is turning every day carriers into felons is to expose ourselves to these sheltered individuals and force their comfort zones to allow for actual common sense in the belief that the object is not to blame. Years ago I hated on the open carriers walking through parks and down “city” streets with their rifles, but now, it makes perfect sense. Nothing else will change their minds. Nothing else will put those in power in a position to understand the rebellion that exists in patriots. Protest, no matter how you look at it, is patriotic. Some forms obviously (BLM and such) are extreme idiots advocating blatant racism, but when it comes to the 2A… “Shall not be infringed” is pretty clear cut. There is no room to interpret the forefathers intention of the second amendment. It literally exists as the sole means of fighting violent tyrants with violence to end the violence. Because humans, as history proves, will never cease to push their will on others until violently forced to see they are wrong for doing it.
You get it, man. 🙂
As a permitted concealed carrier, I’d prefer no one realized I was carrying. I ALWAYS carry my pistol when I go to Walmart, as I do wherever it’s permitted, just in case. I’m not looking for trouble, just want to be able to deal with it if it happens. I also don’t wish to advertise that I am armed as it seems a foolish practice, because someone meaning to harm innocents will obviously target an armed person first.
I feel it’s lunacy to carry an AR or AK into a public crowd as it is likely to incite an unwanted reaction by the public, store employees and the police. I can only imagine that it is an ignorant and childish “look at me” stunt, one that makes me question if that person should be allowed to own a firearm at all, just saying.
Additionally, I rarely will enter a mall, store, fairground, etc that prohibits patrons from carrying a firearm. It’s sad really that the venue has essentially banned a potentially effective defense mechanism in the event a deranged person decides to hunt a target rich environment.
Which brings me to the even more sad and illogical liberal mindset that gun control is the preventive measure to eliminate the crime of murder. The reality is that criminals, who purposely break the law, WILL obtain firearms illegally for illegal means and are now unchallenged in any setting to do harm, as the masses are completely helpless to defend themselves.
Personally, I detest bullies whether the murderous one in Walmart or the ignorant ones in public office, especially those who have their own armed security. Apparently their attitude is “screw the people as long as I’m safe from harm to continue to dictate to the deplorables”. It just seems pathetic to me that these individuals could become so out of touch with reality and so far removed from those who elected them that they have no real logic left.
Obviously, more strict gun laws are not the answer or even a deterrent to crime, especially murder, as guns, knives, swords, baseball bats, cars and bombs don’t assault or murder, it’s the criminals behind such acts. These restrictions make it that much easier for the mayhem to continue unchecked.
We already have their reaction. It doesn’t matter what our choice in carry is. A musket…. a .22LR, a BB gun, or a sidearm beit concealed or OWB’d. Their reaction is the same, everytime, and that is why we are fighting their bullshit right now. It’s lunacy to not want to change it. The only way change will actually happen, and has already, is by forcing the narrative to change. The more they see, doing nothing but simply normal person things, the more they become comfortable with it, or… at least able to ignore it. The fear mongering is a serious problem by the media. Personally, the only time I conceal is when I am somewhere I shouldn’t “legally” be carrying. Like the movie theater here in my town of Montana. The number one question online to them is “Why don’t you allow people to carry inside your theater anymore” and the number one answer is “I would like to know where the gun is at and I’m sitting next to that guy I’ll even share my popcorn”. Or at a restaurant like Buffalo Wild Wings when my friends want to sit at the bar and I have a single beer. It’s nobodies business and I am responsible enough to only have one beer during a rare dinner out… But everywhere else, I OWB. Especially walmart.
BD, Let me play devil’s advocate for a moment. If you have one beer, you will not be drunk, I concede that. But if something stupid happens and you need to defend yourself and others, what do you think will happen at the civil trial when you have to explain to a just you shot a 14-year-old kid ‘who really didn’t know what he was doing’? That’s right criminally you will probably be cleared, but few states have laws protecting you from a frivolous civil suit. The prosecuting lawyer will say that, though not drunk, your thinking could have been impaired and that ‘jury of your peers’ who are half anti-gun will not be far behind. Grieving mother deprived of her son. A guy concealed carrying at the bar, drinking an alcoholic beverage, you know tough guy who carries a gun just waiting for his moment to move. That’s the picture they will paint. I’m not saying it’s not your right. I’m not saying you would act incorrectly. But I hope you have a good lawyer. Odds are you won’t be able to recover most of the legal fees either, after all the other side has no money. (Yes, I do carry insurance for that.) I don’t drink when I carry, I don’t carry when I plan to drink. And I too only have one when I’m out because I need to drive home. State laws do vary. In my state I can consume, just not in the bar section of the business and like BWW, it can’t be a 51% restaurant. Your right to live as you see fit, its just something you may want to consider.
Yes, I know all that and understand the risk. Like I said, it’s such a rare event, maybe two or three times a year that this happens. I do have insurance and have used a good lawyer for other things. That said, I know the picture they will paint. But that one beer gets sipped so slowly and sometimes not even finished, plus the wait time after (and I don’t drive even on one beer) and a water or tea to wash it down, and a pee 😉
I knew I would catch some flak for that comment, because there exists those idiots who carry and have two or three, or more beers (and I have seen them here in MT – they just have to tell you they are carrying). But I am not one. There are so many various legal issues after a discharge especially if it involves taking someones life, that a .02 or .03 BAC would be the least of my worries. I have tested before… one beer never gets me above .04 unless I starved myself all day and drink before eating. So knowing your limit is definitely helpful to remain “law abiding” 😉
Brother, I wasn’t trying to give you flack, I was just making sure you had thought of the possible downsides. Many do not. I was not trying to indicate you might act irresponsible, but we both know others have. Sounds like you have your head on straight.
hey no worries.Didn’t mean to say YOU gave me flak, just that most people understand the downside to having a drink when concealing and someone would remind me 😉
I like tea better anyways… burp less, doesn’t add to the midsection.
OK, I am sick and tired of hearing “If you open carry you are telling the bad guys, SHOOT ME FIRST”. I CALL BULLSHIT! You jack asses perpetuating this myth are just as frightened by seeing a gun in public as the gun-grabbers.
Now I am aware of a few instances where open carriers have been targeted by someone trying to snatch and gab their weapon(and a few concealed carriers too). And I am also aware of the cops shooting open carriers for no justifiable reason. But try as I might, I can not find a single incident where some bad guy started out a planned crime by shooting an open carrier who was a threat to him/her from accomplishing their nefarious plan. Not a single story of a robbery starting out with someone walking into a store and shooting a gun owner open carrying and then announcing a robbery. Have some open carriers been shot by bad guys? Sure, but were they targeted before they had reached for their weapon for self defense? Not that I can find. I believe that even if it has happened it is even rarer than school mass shootings.
I absolutely defy anyone to try and show me a statistically significant amount of cases where an open carrier was shot a the beginning of a crime. GO AHEAD PROVE ME WRONG! I’ll be waiting. This myth needs to stop being repeated. Open carry detours crime, plain and simple.
I have heard of open carry advocates being shot at the outset of a crime. Getting the criminals’ plan for the crime would be difficult. I have heard of open carry advocates being disarmed. I have not kept a file on these things and cannot offer any statistics. I am more concerned over snowflakes who have been told to call the police when they see a gun and to lie about what the owner is doing.. People have been killed. I am concerned that open carry advocates think that rubbing open carry in people’s faces will change people’s minds about guns. Not all do so but the guy in Springfield did. Context is everything. Neat clothing and pleasant demeanor is one thing. Body armor is quite another. I have not heard of a person who has changed their mind about guns after seeing open carry. I have heard the snowflakes screaming that this proves how dangerous we are (it does no such thing). I am extremely concerned that this conversation has degenerated into insults between open and concealed carry advocates. This helps no one but the anti-gun crowd.
Just carry, however you can 😉
But know that concealing is a result of infringements. I agree the body armor was not the best choice, but it certainly is not illegal and actually kind of makes sense for an open carry advocate. That said, when I do it, I wear my button down tucked in and like you said, appearance is everything. Now, if I am with a group and we are open carry protesting, damn straight I am wearing my vest. Because it’s my right to wear what I want and a vest is purely defensive and simply a piece of attire. But if I am just everydaying it and going to wal-mart… it’s a tucked in shirt and gun on my hip with my spare mag on the opposite side. The only time I conceal is when I have to due to location. But again, I have protested that as well with a group because it is such an infringement.
There shouldn’t be anyone telling someone they are stupid for doing either or. That is what get’s people smacked in the face with a “shall not be infringed” mentality. That is what open carriers receive from so called concealers. It’s never the other way around. The debate about why people OWB never starts until some jackass FUDD steps in about how they think concealing is safer. It is, by the numbers, we all know it. by what… .00001%? It’s still a chance, right, and by the numbers, makes it safer. But when those FUDDs start knocking people for actually fighting to preserve the 2A and the other various amendments while doing it, then it becomes an insult.