True Velocity Now Selling Commercial 5.56×45 Ammunition

1. “• 5.56x45mm (77-grain Sierra MatchKing) – MSRP: $39.99 (20ct box)

   • 5.56x45mm (55-grain Full Metal Jacket) – MSRP: $24.99 (20ct box)”

   At 1.25-2 dollars a round, something tells me the hoarders won’t be rat-holing that ammo.

   I do wish them well in the market, however… 🙂

   • If the case head is corrosion resistant there is a selling point in less than ideal storage conditions (humid/flooded basements) but yeah when the price per round competes with 450 bushmaster and is effectively not reloadable weight savings is about all you have unless it is really noticable in being more accurate for precision shooting.

   • oldsht…Those things look like something a doctor should prescribe for you.

     • Kiss-kiss, sweetie. You don’t know what you’re missing.

       Good thing there’s plenty down here to keep me sated… 😉

     • can i get you some kandykorn?

   • When inflation catchs up with the cost of brass as a material I expect composite to start being more competitive along with additional manufacturering. Also the 33% weight reduction is a cost reduction in transportation and infrastructure which is becoming likewise significant with diesel prices.

     What I think will be interesting is the potential for onsite production.

     • If they can keep the price appreciably lower than traditional options in a inflation/copper price explosion (assuming we don’t reopen domestic mining but we do have democrats on power so possible) then I could see it being able to get an appreciable market share. Absent that drastically scaling up production to get the cost per round competitive with aluminum and steel would be the most likely way to get around brass being dominant.

     • drew – yeah about ten years after windmills and solar work for prime power, Edisons as your primary vehicle and you see bigfoot riding a flying pink unicorn, (and Joey Obiden quits take chicom payola).

   • ~COUGH~ ~COUGH~ [muffled speech] Two dollars a round

   • brass case smk isn’t far off, typically see that at 30 a box.

     the real question is how it compares shooting and reliability wise. anyone ever actually tested this stuff?

   • That ammo would have a significant advantage for the military where the weight savings on umpteen-million rounds does become significant when you are transporting the ammo multiple pallets at a time over rough terrain by helicopter or 6×6 truck. The slightly reduced heat transfer might be a slight advantage in an M249.

     But, bottom line, this ammo has no advantages for regular civilian users to justify the price.

     • It is also an advantage to the manufacturer, weight adds costs everywhere.

       What I think would be really cool would be onsite manufacture. Even if you can’t locally source the polymer you could in theory more easily support different rounds on the fly.

   • Cabela’s is selling (or trying to) at $69.99 a box.

     Part of the “Make Every Shot Count” campaign?

2. If I shoot my verboten AR again this looks interesting. Meanwhile my stash of 556 n 223 is pretty zippy🙄…

3. Well, I can see one huge advantage of these cartridges using composite material for their casings: those composite casings will not oxidize like brass or steel casings would if stored for decades or in poor conditions.

   Having said that, I wonder if the composite material in these casings will degrade over time due to other factors. (This may be more of an “apples-to-oranges” comparison and therefore a rather poor example–nylon zip ties can become brittle over time, especially when exposed to ultraviolet light.)

   • Bullet, case head, and primer are still corrosion points but yeah hopefully the polymer ages well in typical adverse conditions as that would have potential in expanding storage options.

   • “Having said that, I wonder if the composite material in these casings will degrade over time due to other factors.”

     Lemme tell ya a little story about that very subject –

     I have noticed a disturbing trend recently, electronic products I own that have gotten ridiculously-brittle. To the point that in just picking them up and using them, they crumble apart. (OK, that’s a slight exaggeration, but not by much.)

     Sony Walkman-type headphones, a Motorola FRS handheld, various other things. It seems like its prevalent in things made in the 1990s-to current times. Get about 20 years on them, and the plastics completely break down.

     I have a theory – “BPA-Free”. They changed the formulations of plastics to not include the chemical BPA, did that critically weaken them over time?

     It has me seriously wondering about guns like Glock. Is this inevitable? 🙁

     • Wouldn’t the Glock be a glass filled nylon and a totally different polymer class? But yeah noticing a lot of 90’s era plastics falling apart on everything from alarm clocks to kitchen utensils. Guessing I will find out in about 20-30 years within my group.

       • I do not know… 🙁

       • The back straps on the Walther P99 pistols are already starting to crumble into dust.

       • So the replaceable parts…….mildly concerning but see how the frame holds up over time.

     • speaking of BPA-free plastic durability: I was thinking about picking up a new Nalgene bottle recently. my current one is over 20 years old and has been dropped on concrete numerous times with nothing more than cosmetic damage.

       I go to Amazon and there’s numerous pictures posted by buyers with blown out bottles that they claim were dropped from little height or on surfaces such as carpets. that was also wondering if it was the change in plastic composition that caused this

     • I have two early factory Glock 17 magazines from the mid 80’s and both within the last year cracked down the back and when I squeezed them the plastic was brittle and broke into pieces. They were early ones with no hole in the base plate and made without the magazine insert. Not caliber marked either. The mags sat unloaded in my safe, in the dark for over 20 years. Meanwhile I have a steel Savage 1907 magazine that’s over 100 years old that still works great and NAM vintage 20rd M16 mags & FAL mags. Yes, steel can rust but I’m somewhat worried about my huge investment in post 2004 AWB Glock mags if they’ll still be working for my future great grand kids after I’m long gone.

       • Any reports of gen 1 Glock 17s having issues with their plastic bits? The magazine I am surprised by given how bakelite can hold up if not used but honestly only ever saw gen 3-5 Glock stuff so who knows how that will age compared to earlier models.

     • I have an early-90s glock. It shows no signs of crumbling or rusting, but the tritium in the night sights gave up the glow a long time ago.

       • Tritium will do that, its glow is caused by literal radioactive decay.

         It loses one-half of its brightness every 10 years, so yours is in need of replacement…

   • Yeah it is from the plasticizer component breaking down or migrating out of the polymer component, once the plasticizer is gone the polymer chains are brittle. Modern plastics should fare better but end of the day migration will occur.

   • Degradation of plastic components is a big deal in the auto repair industry. These teeny little engines with turbos on them do get better fuel economy while still being pretty peppy, but they tend to run hotter. At the same time, they are making many of the parts, such as hose connections, thermostat housings, intake manifolds, valve covers, etc. out of plastics that get brittle and/or warp over time. Shaves a little off the weight and gains EPA fuel economy credits, but the consumer’s fuel savings are eventually eaten up by repair and downtime costs. We see a couple vehicles a week with coolant leaks, and some of these replacement parts are expensive, and some of them are upgraded to aluminum.

     • SAFEupstateFML I’m still running a gen 1 with no issues. I did a spring replacement a few years ago. Did a mag catch in the 90s cause them cheap metal mags wore it through. Other than that nothing. It’s got several hundred thousand through it.

       • Thanks Matt I figured their blend if it’s the glass filled nylon should hold up for the better part of 50 years with no issue but it’s surprisingly difficult to find originals or owners thereof.

4. the more plastic it is
   the less it should cost
   no thanks
   at 2 dollars a round
   – plus shipping –

5. Not reloadable and more expensive does not make it any better. IMO…If the newbe does not noticeably improve accuracy for an already accurate enough firearm most paper punchers will leave well enough alone.

   • This ammo isn’t designed for paper punchers.

     • Really busy body? Then explain why the “ammo not designed for paper punchers” is available with a choice of Match Grade projectiles with price tags in neon lights For-Sale to paper punchers and everyone else? Please advise as I cannot wait for you to display your intellect again.

       • “I cannot wait for you to display your intellect again.”

         You can’t help but loudly broadcast your utter lack of brains every damn time you open up your fat yap.

         Stupid just begins to describe you, cupcake… 🙁

       • Debbie W.,

         I recommend that you significantly scale back your insults and vitriol–and redirect your energies to civil dialogue.

         If you believe that someone’s statement is inaccurate, incorrect, or false then go ahead and explain that in a civil manner and tone. In so doing you invite that person to learn something and be a better voice for our rights.

         Remember the old adage: you will attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Lately, I am seeing a LOT of “vinegar” from you. I feel confident in saying that I speak for everyone on this forum that we would much prefer to see a lot more “honey” from you. After all, you put in the effort to comment on this forum–wouldn’t you like to know that most people read your comments and are better for it?

   • Assuming it performs equal to or better than current ammo, the weight savings will be a critical advantage to the military- the original intended market for these rounds. They also have money to burn and won’t blink at paying more than the brass cases ammo they’ve been using.

     Now, if True Velocity wants to be successful in the civilian market, they will have to come down in price, as the weight isn’t nearly as big of an issue to us and many consumers go for “cheapest that isn’t trash” when shopping for ammo.

     • DOD is not buying it.

       The current bunch running DOD would like it if expended brass was not available to the public for reloading. Would fit their agenda.

       • Much like powder and primers.

         Ever since ADI was sold to Thales, availability of propellant powder for reloading has gone from good to almost nonexistent.

6. If they’re not reloadable, I see two things happening.

   One, commercial ranges not allowing them because they can’t recycle the cases. (Many ranges ban steel case, no matter whether the projectile is steel core or not, for this reason.)

   Two, on open / public ranges and lands, it’s just that much less incentive for people to pick up after themselves when they’re done shooting. (While the “want yer brass?” guys can be annoying, at least they can be useful.). So the ranges get trashier and more likely to be shut down.

   • Yup. I’m glad they’re expensive and I hope they stay expensive. Last thing I need is to see more plastic trash all over the woods.

7. Sorry but I’ve been working in this industry for 30 years and have seen this market change frequently. I have seen new products & ideas come and go. I have seen the market change overnight just by the the signing of Executive orders. I wish them luck but unfortunately economics always prevails. Their ammunition is way too expensive and non-reloadable which is why no one is going to buy it. There are many cheaper and reloadable alternatives on the market. Chinese ammo and Russian ammo was only successful and popular because it was CHEAP and Americans vote with their wallet. PMC, Federal and Winchester own the market share of target/plinking/defense affordable 223/5.56. BTW I still have 300 rounds of PCA Spectrum polymer case .223 I bought in 2004. I did have some issues of bullets being driven into the polymer cases by the feed ramp on my AR’s and regulated this stuff to my bolt guns. However, I did have good luck with reloading the all plastic 12ga ACTIV shot shells back in the late 1980’s when I was a trap/skeet shooter. But, they weren’t better than the AA, REM Premier, Peters Blue Magic, or Gold Medal hulls that were the norm.

8. We’ll just see how it goes. These prices are certainly better than a box of 308’s. Over time the cost should come down like everything else. I’ll let those with more money go first.

9. First plastic guns. Now plastic ammo. What’s next?

   • well we already have plastic and sort-of plastic bullets, so…

     • I keep meaning to look into whether anyone tried to bring back the thunderzapp idea but time quickly gets occupied elsewhere.

10. The pricing argument is pretty interesting to me. I agree that the perception is for polymer things to cost less than metal things but True Velocity is marketing this ammo in comparison to the premium ammo lines and not the bulk budget lines. Federal Premium 69 gr .223 is $35/box at Cabela’s right now and no one is claiming they will go under at that price point. With all of that being said, we will have to wait to see if the shoots like a premium round to justify the cost.

    • Does federal have a budget line of ammunition? I agree with your assessment of it trying to complete with premium loadings but so much of the idea seems intuitively built for a budget line which may be most of the issue with some of the discussion.

    • $25 for a box of M193 equivalent isn’t cost competitive. Sell at a comparable price, and I’ll get some, but weight savings isn’t enough to warrant a 150% premium from me.

11. THE article states :
    “True Velocity’s composite-cased ammunition is designed to offer extensive advantages over traditional brass-cased ammunition, including exceptional dimensional consistency, significantly enhanced accuracy, reduced heat transfer, and an approximate 30 percent reduction in weight over traditional brass-cased cartridges. The 5.56 line of products will be the first to be produced with True Velocity’s Generation 3 advanced manufacturing technology, offering a level of process control, precision and automation that is unprecedented in the ammunition industry.”

    Is all that precision and automation worth $1.25 a round to anyone, except Jason Bourne perhaps ? I mean most civilian use of 5.56 goes for plinking and blasting away, and carried to the range in a pickup truck. The way the maker describes the stuff it ought to be cheaper than steel case junk.

    No thanks

12. Much cheaper for most shooters to increase muscle strength, and healthier, than buying these rounds for the 30% weight reduction.

13. Oh the benefits of non reloadable plastic.
    Yes indeed, I believe all emu should be made of plastic and money too.
    Plastic the future of control

    • Disposable razors create a disposable society.
      Humans get used to throwing things away.
      Great grandpas disposable Glock got thrown away son because you were never born because your disposable life would have interfered with my disposable lifestyle with my disposable loyalty to and while living in a disposable country.

14. What ‘no one of consequence’ said. Ranges need brass to recycle. It’s a profit center for them. They will not permit polymer-cased ammo, or will impose a surcharge. TANSTAAFL.

15. What would make it more accurate, especially against fireformed brass?

16. With all the ecquity the military is spousing, they are gonna need lighter ammo so all them girly men with pencil arms can carry it.

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