Nearly every state has enhanced penalties for armed robbery compared to your standard, garden-variety robbery. In Nebraska statute, for instance, to be considered armed, waiving a toy or replica gun isn’t enough. If the robber can show that what he used during a hold-up wasn’t a real gun, then the enhanced penalty for the use of a firearm doesn’t apply. From ketv.com . . .
“It looks like a real gun. You know it acts like a real gun,” Kleine said. He made the comments while showing KETV NewsWatch 7 a fake gun used by a teen to commit a robbery.
But under state law, the fake gun isn’t a firearm, even if it’s used to commit a crime.
The current law gives robbers an incentive to use fake or toy guns in the commission of their crimes. That may actually be a good thing. I’d rather have robbers used fake, toy, or ineffective guns instead of the real, deadly variety.
Nebraska senators have yet to sign off on toughening the law about using toy or replica guns in crimes. It hasn’t yet come out of committee. There’s talk of adding it as an amendment to other legislation.
Many robbers never believe that anything is going to go wrong when they are in the process of committing crimes, so they’re comfortable using toy or fake guns. A surprising number of robbers use guns that aren’t loaded, guns loaded with the wrong ammo, or loaded with much less than full capacity. In one of the few studies to consider how criminals are armed, Greg Ellifritz, from a small midwestern police department found this:
Out of 85 weapons seized:
– 24 are not loaded
– 2 are not loaded with the correct ammunition
– 9 are completely brokenCombine those facts and you will see that 41% of the weapons we seize from criminals are completely non-functional!
No one has developed a national database on this, so there could very well be considerable variation. Still, it is interesting information.
It might be wise to encourage this trend. If a criminal’s gun is fake or doesn’t work, their victims can’t be shot with them. The downside for the perp, of course, is that a person who can’t tell if their attacker’s gun is fake would be justified in assuming that the gun is real and loaded, thus increasing the chance of the bad guy catching some lead. Should we make the penalties for using a toy gun as severe as they are for the real thing?
©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included. Gun Watch
Oh yeah Mike H. Vaguely remember this putz. I still don’t understand threatening millions of people who are ARMED.
A pointing a fake gun at someone can get you shot just as fast as pointing a real one.
That’s a pretty severe penalty.
Yup, see all the example of cops shooting kids with fake guns.
So, are they counting the number of calls, or are they actually hitting legislature….. on the one hand calling the number might be seen as being antigun…
The difference between Assault and Battery. Whether the assailant connects with his punch. Next time ask your mugger to shoot you to make sure its a real gun. Then he is really in trouble.
What if a thief breaks into your home in the middle of the night with a toy gun. He threatens to shoot your kids and you blow him away. The police discover he is carrying a fake gun and now you are in trouble because you met his force with unequal deadly force because he was just carrying a fake gun. I don’t like that slope we are one. It feels slippery.
Short answer: No
Somewhat longer answer: All you have to do is look at NYC or any “zero tolerance” policy to see the logical conclusion to these laws.
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: The person using the fake gun is using it to intimidate you into comply with his demands. As many posters have already pointed out you don’t know if it live or Memorex so you act accordingly. You only know ex post if at all that it was a fake. You will find out if it’s fake when you pull out your 44 magnum and blow his head clean off. Oops you shot an unarmed man. Fair is far, if the fact that the gun was a toy and does not carry an armed robbery charged with enhanced penalties than your oops ought to get you prosecuted for manslaughter since you shot an unarmed man who posed limited in any direct threat to your life.
“reasonably in fear for your life” would be the ruling factor. (I hope)
Why does the NRA has to respond to such an event? It’s like blaming the AAA for not responding after somebody gets killed in a car crash. 35,000 men, women, and children are killed in car crashes every year and the AAA still supports, promotes, and glorifies the use of automobiles.
Not a good idea. I doubt criminalizing the use of toy guns will have any deterring effect on robbers. There is a lot of potential for downside. The definition of “gun” is already being twisted by the small minded into just about anything. Imagine what they could do with “toy gun.” We already see the pearl clutching school administrators getting police involved when a kid brings the wrong toy, food (pop tarts?!), makes the wrong gesture at school. We can expect police being called and hauling off kids for playing cops and robbers, etc. The TSA won’t just make your kid throw away his G.I. Joe, they will call the cops who will arrest you at the airport checkpoint, because “toy gun” will become “real threat.” Halloween is going to be an authoritarian’s wet dream.
Of course right away we’re being told that the guy was on Ambien and that while he wasn’t properly diagnosed with PTSD, depression and stress he suffered from them. So basically the media is making crap up again trying to push the new front on the war against guns, the mental health issue! Is Ambien is a reason people will snap, then make it illegal for ANYONE using Ambien to drive a car! Cars kill more people every year than just about anything else. Where’s the mental health protection from drivers?
Reminds me of a great clip from snatch sorry if too long
http://youtu.be/1crhwQPKr7w
Well, gee golly gosh there, Michael…. why don’t you do it yourself, big man? C’mon, I’ll be waiting for you.
Careful, they might use our calls on their line to cite some kind of false statistic about how many calls they facilitated in support of this shouting endeavor.
Hmmm. How about increasing the penalties of robberies conducted without real guns (fakes or nothing at all), to match penalties with a real gun.
Then put in safeguards such that a criminal carrying and wielding anything intended to look like a gun who gets shot during the robbery, can’t sue the people who shot him.
Call it Saddam’s Law – if you try to convince people you’re dangerous, you have no right to be upset or surprised when they react accordingly.
Why should there be any difference in penalty between an assault/robbery with a gun or without, toy or otherwise?
Definitely a step in the right direction. ALL law-abiding citizens should be allowed to exercise their constitutional right to carry a firearm, regardless of where they live.
This discussion might also bring up the same question concerning a robber who hands a note to a clerk, stating that he has a gun, but no gun is shown.
The poor clerk might be the type of person who scares very easily, and may have a heart attack on the spot!
Even if a gun is not real, or no gun is shown, If the intent is the same as if the assailant had a gun, and puts this thought into the mind of a victim, there should be no leniency.
Is the criminal any less guilty when he robs you, just because his gun was not real?
Apropos of nothing, I went through Connecticut yesterday and there are signs hanging all over the place that state: “Connecticut. Still Revolutionary.” Is that a giant joke or a sign of things to come?
It is a “new” ad campaign promoting CT tourism that’s been going for a year or two. And regardless of what the governor thinks, everybody else in the state very much thinks it’s a joke.
“Should Toy Guns Bring the Same Penalties as Real Guns?’
No. It would lead to needlessly banning toy guns.
Another reason not to take that overprescribed sh1t. Million of people on psychoactive drugs would be better off with a friend or a friendly bartender to talk to, rather than dosing themselves with that poison.
Do those things use single stack mags?
Read your review, so now I see.. yes.
What scope is that?
I’m just going to say h&k rifles are almost never worth the price if I could get a true semi auto g36 that would be one thing but as it stands I will never buy an hk rifle
So a guy who robs a bank with a fake gun should not face as stiff a penalty as a person who does it with a real gun?
Nope. For the obvious reason you stated, of course, but beyond that, penalties for using toy guns in crimes will cause stupid people to equate “toy gun” with “dangerous firearms”. My greatest passions in life are video games, shooting (firearms), and the sport of airsoft. Beyond making idiots afraid of airsoft guns (or I should say even more idiots, life those thieving customs officials a few years ago who seized a shipment of high end airsoft guns from Taiwan claiming that they could be modified to be fully automatic firearms with “minimal effort”), it’s a slippery slope. How long until replicas are restricted as well? Or they pull a Germany, and ban all fully-automatic airsoft guns?
Not to mention that schools already blow a damn gasket when someone bites a pop-tart into a gun, and a criminalization of the use of toy guns would only legitimize their reactions. After all, “it wouldn’t be banned/restricted if it wasn’t dangerous!”
The only thing that makes sense in true reality (we know Shannon has no clue about reality) is that true gun sense is the discontinuation of disarming law-abiding citizens. The current tirade of Shannon and her cohorts is only benefitting the criminal element and I am betting they have her on their pedastol. Ft. Hood is a massive criminal playground beings that it is one of the infamous “gun free” zones. Simply google this – how my point of view on gun control changed while traveling. Listen to the NY girl explain the indoctrination she recieved as a NY native and how hitting the real world changed her point of view. She is a whole lot better to look and listen to than Shannon is.
I wasn’t around in the fifties, but I went to high school in the mid-to-late seventies. I remember that during hunting season, we occasionally went home with friends, planning to hunt after school. We would carry our shotguns/rifles on the school bus (the driver stored them behind his seat) When we got to school, we left our guns in the principal’s office, picked them up at the end of the day, got back on the bus, and went about our business – no muss, no fuss, no problems.
While I have in the past criticized TTAG for diluting the word “hero,” Congressman Steve Stockman is my nominee for a “Gun hero of the day” award.
Good grief. We’re talking about people who have volunteered to protect us, and we disarm them so they can’t even defend themselves, pre-empting state CC laws in the process. We can only hope sanity will prevail.
“Killers with ILLEGAL guns”, please. The issue is the government walks all over our soldiers and does not support the ones who give all to protect our freedoms. There will be more deaths by self inflicted wounds then those who died during deployment after all is said and done. The government should be held accountable. What’s ironic, you never hear of gang bangers shooting up schools on involved in mass shootings. Bottom line, it’s people with no record that have mental issues that are responsible for most of these sick shooting sprees. If more people would have been armed, here’s a novel idea, arming our armed forces, this perp would have been taking done much sooner.
Sad day. Good on you for owning it, though.
Glad you apologized. This isn’t directed at TTAG in particular, but I think all news agencies need to dial back the 24/7 news cycle a bit. Let facts be a bit more established before disseminating it. I understand the need to get “the scoop”, but in cases of tragedy, it might be best to slow your roll.
The anti’s will find blame with everything but the gun free zone premise , they will rant and rave and will recieve donations from misguided folks thinking that the anti’s really want to help , but what they are after is two fold money and a utopian fantasy agenda , where everyone follows the rules made by those who think they know what is best for humanity a one size fits all mentallity . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry .
Not going to happen. America loves its soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen, but to the Feds and bureaucrats who run this country, military personnel are nothing but cannon fodder, fit only to die for the regime. It’s harsh to say so, but it’s true.
Yeah, I think he’s got a point there. No-knocks are a plague on society.
This has a half-decent chance of passing. That punts the choice back to the base commanders, who will react by absolutely not updating their “no guns on base” policy letters, however.
If you want a star, you’d want to avoid being “the guy who let soldiers/sailors/airmen/Marines” kill each other/themselves/have stupid accidents. Nobody became a wing king by taking a political risk.
It’s incontheeivable, for the record
I would love to do a shooting competition with my M1 Garand or M1 Carbine. The Garand is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. It somehow finds its way out to the range every time I go. Good thing there is still surplus around to keep costs down. The carbine, not so much.
Someone busting down my door would send me immediately to my home defense weapon. Damn then they shoot me in the heat of the moment. Or I shoot them heaven forbid. Scary shit that shouldn’t happen. There was a gang breakin a coupla years around here. Shot dog beat up man n woman. They thought drugs were in home. I want to be ready and no I don’t have drugs here.
I would love to have one, Tavor, but I am left handed and it looks like it would be nothing but brass in the face.
I dunno, maybe someone should take him up on that. He didn’t say “pro athletes’, he didn’t say “football players’, he said “athletes”. I’m guessing there are dozens of biathlon contestants, modern pentathlon contestants, Olympic target-shooting contestants, skeet shooters, etc, etc for every overpaid barbarian that goes retard with a gun. Every time one of them competes, much less wins a medal or a ribbon, it is a good and constructive thing. I think he would lose at his own rigged game with some good research out there.
In no particular order…
1. ANYTHING fully-automatic, the bigger-caliber the better.
2. A good 1911 in .45ACP
3. A 1903 Springfield
4. An M1 Garand
5. An AK-47
6. A Browning Hi-Power, CZ75 or any of the other “Wonder Nines”
7. A really good .22 rifle
8. Anything with a suppressor
9. Anything in .50BMG
10. Anything capable of accuracy out past 500 yards.
Like
so manyallgun control advocatesTV “news” halfwits, Mr. Uygur lives and works in an echo chamber.Fixed it for ya.