During SHOT Show, Chris covered the ins-and-outs of Winchester’s new WWII Victory Series Ammo. It appears to be historically-accurate enough to appease gun hipsters and shooters nostalgic for the smell of cordite. I, for one, long for the days when nostalgia wasn’t such a big deal. It was just better then; nostalgia ain’t what it used to be. Anyway . . .
At Industry Day on the Range I shot Winchester’s other two brand new brands of ammo: Super Suppressed and Hybrid-X.
Super Suppressed is exactly what you’d hope: fully-copper-encapsulated, heavy-for-caliber projectiles loaded subsonic on clean-burning powder and primers. It’s optimized for running through a suppressor with the utmost minimum of noise and dirtiness.
It’ll be available in .22 LR, .22 Magnum, 9mm, .45 ACP, 300 Blackout and .308 Winchester (yes, loaded subsonic). The rimfire ammo is “black copper plated” while the rest is jacketed.
On the range I fired the .22 LR and 9mm. It was super freaking quiet.
Of course, there was unsuppressed gunfire in other bays and I had ear pro on (though I do not believe the sound suppression kicked in). Plus I didn’t shoot other brands of ammo back-to-back with Winchester’s Super Suppressed ammunition. So it’s hard to say anything more at this point.
Rest assured that TTAG will get our hands on some of this stuff and test it for sound, accuracy, and next-to-Godly-ness (i.e. cleanliness).
Winchester’s Hybrid-X (seen in the lead photo) is a consumer/civilian-oriented self-defense round. Its large, polymer tip drives down on impact into a jacketed, fragmenting lead core.
It’s supposed to combine penetration, expansion and fragmentation into a single bullet that’s “blind” to clothing and other soft “barriers” that can plug up hollow points.
Hybrid-X should also feed more reliably in more firearms than hollow points, thanks to its FMJ round nose-like shape.
Meanwhile, it appears (unconfirmed as of yet) to limit penetration through harder barriers such as windows and walls and reduce the risk of ricochet.
Again, it’s aimed at civilian self-defense/personal defense/home defense rather than law enforcement and military use.
One thing to note, based on the gel block they had on display: the round doesn’t begin to fragment until it has penetrated about five inches of gel.
I’m not convinced that a fragmenting bullet is the best design, but the Hybrid-X is definitely far superior to those that fragment immediately.
Keep in mind that it takes three to four inches of ballistics gel penetration to equate to breaking human skin, so the fragments in other bullet designs that end up parked three inches into gel are unlikely to do much of anything on a bad guy.
With the Hybrid-X round seen in the 16-inch-long block above, the lead fragments appear to have stopped between about 9.5″ and 12″ deep. The polymer tip appears to be sitting in the jacket around the 10-ish-inch mark.
I don’t yet envision this replacing my carry load, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be shot with it. I’d consider it much more seriously if I lived in an apartment complex or elsewhere with significant overpenetration concerns.
At this time Hybrid-X is only available in 124 grain 9mm +P. It shoots just like you’d expect.
“…and .308 Winchester (yes, loaded subsonic).”
.308 loaded subsonic?
[Singing]
“Reach out, reach out and *touch* something…” 😉
Yeah it’s called 300 Blackout 😉
Actually, the really weird thing is that their 300 BLK is 200 grains but the .308 is 168. Both are loaded to 1,060 fps. Not sure why they didn’t go with the same, heavy projectile for the .308 also.
Usually I derate new stuff, condemn the 5.56 but that MCR gave me a hard on. Man I’d like to have the cash to buy that, even skip the select fire. I vote this the best firearm so far on TTGA.+p+1
“By the last day of the show the long lines and dense crowds had taken their toll on everyone. My brain stopped functioning around 2:00 PM Thursday afternoon,…”
That’s the bad thing about mega-shows like that, there’s too much of it.
The data dump on your brain gets you burned out. That’s bad for the booths in the far corners of the show.
It starts to no longer register as “Now that’s cool!” when the big boys pay extra to be seen first on the show floor…
(EDIT – Holy crap. The Eagles won. I sure wasn’t expecting that outcome. I hope the Philly cops greased every streetlight pole while the famously calm and rational Philly fans tear Philly to shreds…)
Just won $900 on that final score, thank you very much!
They’re terribly inaccurate. They’re designed to be novelty range toys. This guy’s statement sounds like freedom hating totalitarianism.
The table says she’s pregnant. Ugh. Freaking Vegas.
Nobody surrendered a piece of wood with “Molon Labe” engraved?
Liberalism is the disease and must be stamped out.
Private Catholic education for 12 years, no bullying ever. It was not tolerated. Had one “kick fight” in the 7th. Grade. Don’t even remember why it started and no one was hurt. Got busted by a coach. Had to run 5 arounds practice field, side by side. We were exhausted and ended up becoming friends. Never experienced “mean girls”again . Fortunately did not call parents or would have been additional punishment for fighting at school.
Parents wouldn’t call teachers, due to being invited to move your child to a public school, if you didn’t like the rules.
Some kids today have never been subject to discipline.
Hell’s bells and shotgun shells, when I went to school there’d be at least two three fights a day. Bullies were numerous, people got picked in. No body brought a school to gun( ha ha) to shoot someone with. The teachers would have slapped the piss out of you. Getting bullied was good for me, Army DI’s weren’t all that, not after being initiated in school. LOL it was a right of passage to be thrown out of the locker room naked while the cheerleaders were practicing in the gym, then them assholes that threw you out would hold the door shut. That was back in the 60’s , now the school would get sued an all kinds of shit. We did get in trouble for shaving a guys head and crapping on his coat tho. The namby pamby school system and all this stop the bullying is making pussies out of the kids.
Admitting you own anything as a “weapon” is a terrible idea in a Commonwealth country- at least if you are an ordinary citizen (actual criminals have special rights).
Let’s take that bow for an example. If you admit to owning it as a weapon you’ll be in trouble. If you own it for target shooting- that’s different. Now, I’m writing from a Canadian perspective, but it isn’t that much different in Australia. As far as I can see, all these guys are doing is making it easier for the Crown to put them in jail. Then the criminals will be able to break into their houses at leisure.
Kind of a silly question.
Regardless of discomfort, recoil is something to overcome for accurate shooting.
I tend to not choose weapons I consider to have sharp recoil that induce pain with every shot.
So I choose a carbine over a 12 gauge for general long gun use. Less recoil and easier to place shots.
I don’t think any general service pistols have severe recoil in mid-bore or over 40 bore.
Snub revolvers are another matter. I can run 50 to 100 round through my LCR 357 but want no part of a 340 PD. Pain affects my accuracy.
In 38+p, I find the LCR with its Hogue grips is harder to control than my pre-hole Smiths with small stocks and a Tgrip.
So “liking” recoil is akin to prefering spicy food.
But in defensive shooting it is something to overcome. Simple physics.
9 mm parabellum the deadliest handgun round ever invented, the power of a .44 Magnum +p+ , with the recoil of a .22 LR.Its why the Nazi’s dropped the 7.62×25 Tokarev and took Ghengas Kahn’s design, nobody knew guns better then the Inca’s.