A Florida jury is busy deliberating the fate of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch commander who shot and killed Skittles schlepper Trayvon Martin. My prediction: Zimmerman walks. Riots ensue. And then everyone settles down and goes about their business. But even if the jury brings back a guilty verdict (gotta be manslaughter) Zimmerman’s life will never be the same. He will always be “that guy.” Which is better than being dead. Yes, well, there is that. A defensive gun use (DGU) doesn’t depend on the legal system for its moral justification. Anyway, I’ve got three major takeaways from this case . . .
Some lawyers (not Ralph) reckon Zimmerman is the exception that proves the rule: don’t talk to the cops. Because George shared his account of the shooting with the police on four separate occasions and chinwagged with great, great American Sean Hannity in full public view, the jury heard Zimmerman’s side of the story without the defendant having to face the dangers of cross-examination. Yes but—
The prosecution would have had a much weaker case without the inconsistencies between the various versions of Zimmerman’s story. With legal representation present at his first (and only) police interview, the shooter’s account would have been even more convincing (e.g., he would have avoided accusations that he was emotionally detached during questioning). Cooperating with the police without a lawyer present may ultimately work out well for George but I see nothing in this trial that contradicts the post-DGU STFU doctrine.
2. Don’t go on patrol
I appreciate the neighborhood watch scheme. We can’t depend on the police so we depend on ourselves and each other. That said, there’s a line between members of a community defending themselves against invaders and anointed individuals going out on patrol looking for criminals. Truth be told, when you look for trouble the odds of finding it rise exponentially.
It’s the difference between assuming a defensive position against home invaders and searching and clearing your house, property and/or immediate vicinity. The first is understandable and strategically defensible. The latter is deeply inadvisable and incredibly dangerous. Actively searching for and confronting bad guys is the cops’ responsibility.
Personally, I don’t fancy taking a bullet for a person who doesn’t appear on my tax return. Nor do I fancy giving a bullet to someone to whose death will impose an emotional, psychological and financial burden on myself and my family. I understand that there are people who feel morally compelled to take that risk. But they should do so with a heightened awareness of the risk reward ratio.
3. Don’t run a gun blog
The State’s case against George Zimmerman rests on the idea that Zimmerman was a wanna-be cop. “He didn’t need to shoot Trayvon Martin,” the prosecution pronounced at the beginning and end of the trial, “He wanted to.” However circumstantial, evidence that an armed self-defender had an “itchy trigger finger” before a defensive gun use makes them more legally vulnerable. “Protected by Smith & Wesson” signs around your property will come back to haunt you.
The trick here is to avoid making public pronouncements—bound to be recorded by someone somewhere—that make you seem like a zealot. There’s nothing inherently wrong with working to extend and defend Americans’ natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. But it’s best to do so without wearing T-shirts that do the cold dead hands thing.
Imagine if George Zimmerman had been a gun blogger. Or an Oath Keeper. He would have had the same right to armed self-defense, of course, but he would have been crucified in the court of public opinion. Which he was anyway. All I’m saying is that anything you say—or write in an email or post on the Internet—can and will be used against you in a court of law should push come to ballistic shove. As George Zimmerman discovered.
Really Good Advice.
What happened to Ralphs blow-by-blow on this-
was looking forward to his lawyerly view, and curmudgeonly wit.
Good link for streaming live via Legal Insurrection:
I’ve been busy 🙁
ahhh, the life of a RETIRED lawyer . . . . 🙂
I’m not completely retired, just from the practice.
Ralph, there is no reason for you to be retired. I am looking at this young guy named “Ralph” here:
and he certainly does not look of retirement age. Let me guess… you got tired of going to work everyday and decided to stay at home and chitchat on gun blogs all day. Right??
Hasn’t anyone told you the dirty little secret of being retired? You never get a day off or a weekend – when you are retired, it’s 24/7. Keeps you busy. Hard to figure out how you had time to work, before you retired.
And I am going on record as agreeing with the statement above: “Personally, I don’t fancy taking a bullet for a person who doesn’t appear on my tax return.” And I do not fancy bankrupting myself with legal fees for someone I don’t know who is not willing to protect themself.
I’m retired also. What this means is that all the people in my family who aren’t retired feel free to dump their errands on me. And I’m now a built in baby sitter for when the grandkids aren’t in school but the parents keep working. I go to work for a couple of months a year just to get a break from being retired.
#1 is good advice.
#2 and #3 are a great prescription for covering your personal cowardly ass. If we all take that advice then we ultimately lose.
If we don’t care for our own neighbors as in #2 then the criminals will own our streets as we cower inside our well defended homes.
If no one speaks out and runs a gun blog (#3) then only the antis get their message out and we lose.
I’m thinking RF must have been joking when he wrote this one.
This is the original post that evaporated last light. I see it has shown up this morning. Technology is great.
#1 is sensible advice. #2 and #3 are contemptible, ass-covering cowardice.
If we don’t stand with our neighbors against street thugs then we lose to the thugs. If we don’t blog and speak publicly then only the antis get their message out and we will fail to educate people. A right not exercised is a right lost.
I wonder if RF was joking when he posted this. Clearly he has violated #3.
We may all be nervous and fearful about not wanting to be in Zimmerman’s show-trial shoes. He may not be your perfect test case for armed self-defense but we must fight the battle where the battle IS.
It seems RF’s attitude is stay away from stupid places where stupid people hang out and do stupid things. So number two seems straight by that logic. And number three means he’s fycked if he needs to pull his pice some day.
“…if you look for trouble the odds of finding it…”
Not for nuthin, but I don’t see the people Zimmerman was “protecting” doing the stand up thing for HIM.
Personally, I carry a gun to protect myself and my family; everyone else has to fit inside my “risk/reward ratio” and chances are, they don’t. That doesn’t make me a coward it makes me sensible. After all, if I go to jail or get killed for someone I don’t know, who is going to take care of my family; you?
My backyard and neighbor’s backyard are not “stupid places”. If someone is there who doesn’t seem to belong there I am going to surely ask questions. If they get aggressive I not going go all Rambo and chase them down. I will assume a defense of myself and loved ones and call in the pros.
What I refuse to do is turn a blind eye to evil. That used to be a crime at one time. Now the world has turned upside down.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” -attributed to Edmund Burke
I don’t want to speak for RF, but I think he is making a distinction between actively patrolling around the neighborhood looking for bad guys like Zimmerman was doing, versus reporting/investigating suspicious behavior/situations while just going about one’s daily business. While many of us who read TTAG believe both are admirable behavior, the active patrolling among the general public can look a little over the top and might get you labeled a wanna be cop making any actions to include a DGU suspect to many people.
Better get yourself a really good, multi-million dollar “umbrella policy” for your potential liabilities.
Don’t worry about me. You won’t anyway. From what I read here, I don’t expect anyone here to stand by me (or you) any more than GZ’s neighbors are standing by him.
You will find many excuses for playing CYA and not get involved.
Looks like you have violated rule #3.
Or visit one. Or comment. Oops. Too late…
Note to NSA/DOJ minders- “nothing to see here, move along, these are not the gun-nuts you are looking for…”
PS: Interested in what “they” know about you?
How it works-
They already know a lot about me. I have been attended meetings in DRNSA’s private conference room.
It’s much, much more invasive than meta data. Read a friend’s points about where and how all data is collected:
He’s an ee, chip designer. I listen to him/her.
tdiinva now thats a “veddy interesting” comment…
dont want to hijack this thread any more than I have-
but perhaps later, in another thread, on the forum?, you can opine on this-
I used to work for Clapper too. I was once his EA for a day when he was out of area SECDEF for the 2009 inauguration.
Dont shoot a black teen during a slow news week if you are a white or white looking hispanic male
What’s this “white” thing that people keep going on about? Do you seriously expect me not to laugh at the idea of putting Irishmen and Pakistanis in the same “ethnic group”?
Actually they are. I used to work with a Pakistani woman named Noreen. The means the same in both Urdu and Gaelic. Both Gaels and East Asians are Caucasians.
“Imagine if George Zimmerman had been a gun blogger. Or an Oath Keeper. He would have had the same right to armed self-defense, of course, but he would have been crucified in the court of public opinion. Which he was anyway.”
If the races were reversed, we never would have heard this case because no case would’ve been presented. Black on white crime is exploding across the country, but you’d never know it from the lack of coverage/censorship.
From a Tampa Bay Times review of 200 SYG cases:
• Whites who invoked the law were charged at the same rate as blacks.
• Whites who went to trial were convicted at the same rate as blacks.
• In mixed-race cases involving fatalities, the outcomes were similar. Four of the five blacks who killed a white went free; five of the six whites who killed a black went free.
• Overall, black defendants went free 66 percent of the time in fatal cases compared to 61 percent for white defendants — a difference explained, in part, by the fact blacks were more likely to kill another black.
Sometimes it’s not about race. It’s just about the dead body on the lawn.
That’s an interesting set of factoids, Ralph. Thanks.
An interesting case.
The GZ defense did not assert SYG last time I looked.
SYG doesn’t apply, He was atacked and knocked down.
I agree it doesn’t apply. My point was that because SYG was not asserted, the summarized racial comparisons aren’t highly relevant. FL’s experience with SYG seems to have been acceptable so far.
Never sound angry on the 911 call, it’s being recorded. Sound scared, and give a minimum of information.
I reckon if we all are good sheep we all will be a lot better off.
Of course running & hiding every chance you get may make your life a lot easier but try not to look in mirrors too much, what you see may scare you too!
If you go following strangers into dark alleys, what you see might scare you.
No argument there or with your #1, I am not defending George for anything but also I can recognize what a lynch mob mentality looks like too.
But if we are afraid to show support for an association one agrees with or to say what you believe to be the truth (like in running a gun blog) only because you are afraid of going & losing in court; sounds like the sheep way of life to me!
I am a sheepdog and proud of it, but that doesn’t mean to me in doing anything stupid, looking for trouble or committing suicide but also it does mean that running and hiding is not my first option in every situation either, as I read into your suggestions (hopefully erroneously) !
Exactly. #1 is sensible.
But, if we all follow this advice and practice #2 and #3 we will all capitulate to evil and the world will be a terrible place.
If nobody ran a gun blog then only the antis would get their message out and we all lose.
If nobody protects their own neighborhoods and town then the criminals run the streets.
Nope, this post may be a way to cover your personal ass but it is ultimately a prescription for cowardice and ultimate failure.
“Don’t Look Now,” with Donald Sutherland, comes to mind.
Well stated RF.
I enjoy shooting. I like to take my kids and wife to the range. They all have their own pistols. We have a few rifles and shotguns including a very cool CMP M1 Garand. But in reference to rule #3 above, none of my family has a bumper sticker, or a t-shirt, or a facebook photo or a yard sign that would indicate to anyone that we own a single firearm.
I am willing but fervently pray that I never have to use a weapon to deter or defeat someone intent on harming me or mine. But, never will someone use a photo of the window stickers on my truck as evidence that I am a depraved individual who doesn’t value human life.
I scraped my NRA sticker the morning after the last presidential election.
Replace it with a DNC sticker?
Is there any evidence to suggest that rioting is actually going to happen, other than a bunch of random anonymous angry twitter posts and what seems to be to almost be a virtual desire for it to happen by certain groups of pro-2A people?
Forgive me for living in a boring milquetoast part of the country (Seattle area) but I have not heard or seen any indication that people really give a shit about GZ one way or the other, besides the media and people online.
Police in FL have been planning for it. If they are taking the scenario seriously enough to make a plan, then it’s serious enough of a possibility by me.
They should just bill the DOJ.
Ongoing Dept of “Justice” “outreach” effort to organize the community? Your tax $ at work.
I’m ready. I’m excited to get my guitar back from Golden Pawn. maybe some new furniture or something too.
History is the main piece of evidence. Sharpton and company have whipped up such a frenzy that if the Martin supports feel that they didn’t get justice, it’s likely to turn into violence.
I ride home (from Renton to Seattle) on MLK Way. For the next few weeks I might take the 405 to the 5.
Worried in Seattle? Really?
The only people that riot in Seattle are idiot anarchists itching to be suppressed by the Man.
Its has happened there before http://www.vdare.com/articles/diversity-disaster-the-censored-truth-about-fat-tuesday-riots
sound & solid advise. I would add no called to 911 until after the incident. And lawyer up when police arrive citing you are not aware of all the laws pertaining to this event and will answer all your questions in the presence of a lawyer.
This entire debacle was orchestrated by the Obama regime, for these reasons:
1. To create further racial strife which only helps the leftist cause;
2. To help dismantle Stand Your Ground laws which they detest;
3. To further undermine the 2nd Amendment and CCW laws;
4. To conveniently divert attention from the regimes scandals.
When the DOJ sent protest agitators to FL to help foment anti Zimmerman rallies, and Obama let loose his “Trayvon my son” remark, even a blind man could see the die was cast. I predict this obviously handpicked compromised judge and jury convicts this guy.
Don’t blame Barry. He thought that Trayvon looked like his son.
Any illusions that we are not under a tyrannical regime should be dispelled by now, the only question is how much worse it gets.
Tyrants only stop their depravations when they interrupt a ballistic path
Every parent knows there is nothing worse than to lose a child who looks like your child might have looked if you had one that looked like that.
Except the jury gets to make the decision. A jury that consists of five white women and one Hispanic is not going to be in Obama’s pocket. Two of these women may have CHLs. This is not the kind of jury that the prosecution can control. My guess is not guilty on murder in the second. My guess on the probabilities on for the outcome for manslaughter are 30% not guilty, 65% hung jury, 5% guilty.
If you want to go with a conspiracy theory then the administration wants a not guilty or hung jury result and riots to be exploited in the 2014 election. A guilty verdict on any charge says the system works and “justice is done.” That isn’t going to get the all important black welfare dependent class out to vote Democratic next year.
You are entirely too optimistic about the cool headedness of women. They are moms and hardly a jury of GZims “peers.” This entire prosecution was predicated on emotion, and who better to make emotional decisions than 6 women, who I would wager hate guns? Hope you are right and I am wrong.
Two of them may hold CHLs so it is very unlikely that they hate guns.
Jury selection was very carefully screened and coordinated BEFORE they even got to speak to the lawyers. What we don’t know won’t hurt us? Right…
Do you have a link to the list of screening questions?
Also to stir up the black vote in a big swing state in a presidential election year.
Next presidential election year is 2016.
Doh, you were referring to last year’s election. My bad.
Agreed, GZim made a crucial error in dialing 911 to begin with, even though he was honestly trying to be a good HOA watchdog. Stay off 911! Let somebody else call it if an incident occurs, they ALWAYS use 911 recordings against you later.
Except the call to the non emergency dispatcher (not 911) helped Zimmerman.
Matter of opinion, the prosecution used it to show “ill will and spite.” On the other hand it can show he had no intent to do anything wrong. I still think the 911 numbers should be removed from your phone, let somebody else do the dialing.
Matter of fact not opinion.
First of all Zimmerman didn’t call 911. He called the non emergency number.
Second, the tape established the time line and corrected the erroneous charge that Zimmerman left his truck despite being ordered not to. The tape has him following the dispatcher’s advice and returning to his vehicle when he encountered Martin. That supports the defense’s case.
It would help if you actually read the material placed in evidence rather than the narrative put out by the MSM.
Oh yeah, im a real dupe for the MSM. You sure got me there. Yup. You betcha.
Then why are repeating all their memes when the evidence introduced in court contradicts them?
Michael, do you also advise shooting someone outside and dragging their body inside and then placing one of your own kitchen knives in his hand so it looks legit?
Even though it’s not the manly thing to do, Zimmerman’s case would’ve been helped tremendously if he had run the second Trayvon asked him what his problem was.
There’s no duty to retreat in FL, but you should try anyway to cover your ass.
Seems like he honestly got waylaid in the dark by a faster stronger opponent, but that doesnt fit the leftist narrative of “real men fight with their fists” so its all moot now.
Regarding the match of the two people: I found the frequent press references to how much heavier GZ was than Martin bizarre, though that approach was popular. Sugar Ray Leonard was lighter than Martin when he won the Super Middleweight world championship. He was also an inch shorter than Martin. GZ had a weight edge, but the idea that he’d land a punch seemed absurd.
May take (other than the Hannity thing which I thought was extremely stupid at the time it happened) was never, NEVER, ever curse on a 911 call.
Don’t call the cops unless you need a dog shot.
1. Zimmerman is not the exception that proves the rule. The ONLY thing that the state can beat him over the head with are the “inconsistencies” in the statements — as if those inconsistencies prove anything. Had Zimmerman made only one statement in the presence of his counsel, there would be no inconsistencies and he’d be golden.
2. The rabbi put it best — stay away from stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places. Zimmerman was doing everything right, up until the time that he took a stroll down a dark alley following a guy he thought was “up to no good.” If Martin actually was up to no good, it’s Zimmerman who might be dead. He should be acquitted, but he’s still going to be paying for what he did for the rest of his life.
3. RF’s point 3 is really an extension of point 1: STFU. In this age of unlimited digital memory, anything you ever said can and will be used against you. Unfortunately, there’s nothing you can do about it except to live your life and take your chances.
No matter what happens with this criminal trial, the CIVIL trial is going to hang over GZim, and they will not let up till this guy is completely destroyed. The HOA already settled but the race baiting Martin lawyer is itching to get this down the pipe so he can start the civil suit, which has much lower standards of conviction.
I’m sure that the present courtroom won’t be GZ’s last.
GZ can pay the civil lawsuit with NBC money, he’s got a good case there.
If he walks he is better off in South America and the Martin lawyers can pound salt.
Either way this goes, it will make defending yourself from harm a lot tougher and unless your life is very boring you will be hung by the media.
Sorry Ralph. Heard you wrong. Text amended.
No worries. When the videos were shown to the jury, it took GZ off the hook. He didn’t need to testify after that, which was good. But he made too many statements without benefit of counsel, which is bad. Real bad.
Ironically, the worst was the Hannity interview, which was given in the presence of his counsel.
“Zimmerman was doing everything right, up until the time that he took a stroll down a dark alley following a guy he thought was “up to no good.”
That is what is referred to as “The Safari Principle”. You get out of your car and you’re dead. Trust me, I’ve been on safari in South Africa and scorned to no end for that offense.
Really? Are we now in South Africa on safari? I thought George was in his neighborhood… Just saying.
Wait, what? You can’t seriously be contending that following a possibly dangerous person — “he’s on drugs or something” and “he’s up to no good” according to Zimmerman — into a dark alley was a good thing. I’m damn sure that GZ doesn’t think so. South Africa or South Attleboro, it’s just dumb.
Whilst on first blush, you might expect that a gun blogger would be setting himself up for trouble, what would you expect of someone who was a prominent editor and writer for numerous gun publications and a TV gun show host? Well, Richard Venola was in a shooting in Arizona last year. After several trials, he was acquitted this year of all charges to the best of my memory. Yet the level of news coverage was very close to zero. There seems to be no real rhyme or reason to this thing. Other than when race baiters or politicians get involved in your case. Just for historical purpose (you can google this stuff), note the uproar when NRA Pres Harlon Carter was pilloried over a murder as a youth, or when Col. Askins wrote one of his final articles for the NRA magazine about blowing away a Viet Cong as the war was still fresh on folks minds.
I hope to hell Venola gets his life back together and starts contributing to the gun community again. I like the guy.
Had Martin been armed with anything, or if he had been actually “up to no good,” this case would be a nothing just like several before it. If our race-baiting President didn’t make this case personal, it would have been a nothing. And if the media wasn’t trying to push for total civilian disarmament, this case would have been a nothing.
I like this post, Ralph, but there are more golden opportunities to divide races than this one. And more opportunities to loot and burn than hurricanes.
There may well be reasons for such behavior – although Americans have tons of immaculate reasons to do so to this bankster front of a government we have now – but PLANNING riots before a verdict? Besides social blackmail, it’s far more criminal than anything Snowden ever contemplated.
Our DOJ is criminally ideological (to put it mildly). Abdicating the default “guilty” verdict against the NBP for voter intimidation, initating/covering-up Fast and Furious (and other ATF mischief), blaming the deaths of four American diplomats on a moronic YouTube video (and jailing its creator), and this:
Seriously. DOJ’s Civil Rights Division has an open investigation of George Zimmerman. This is insane.
I see your dirty tricks RF. You’re just saying not to run a gun blog so you don’t have any competition. And you thought you were being sneaky…
Scoundrel. Go soak your head in the toilet.
So basically, don’t dare to exercise your first amendment rights because it will make you look bad.
I’m reminded of a favorite quote from the TV show ‘Angel’
“Hero’s live as if the world is as it should be, to show it what it can be.”
Sometimes it’s bigger than your own, personal fate.
Uh, Bleh, I think you’re missing something. RF is exercising his 1A rights notoriously, under his own name, while you are commenting anonymously.
Hah! Good call bro. Show me someone that always lives up to their own ideals and I’ll show you a fictional character. We all try our best.
The good part about being “anonymous” is we don’t need to “STFU” 😉
Just FYI the special prosecutor, Angela Corey, was indicted the other week for withholding evidence and her affidavit in support of Murder 2 Charge.
I love a happy ending. 🙂
“Indicted” by a so-called “citizens grand jury,” ie. a bunch of goofballs.
A Citizens’ Grand Jury carries as much weight as a poll of drunks at the bar last night, or a vote by the ladies of the bridge club.
TO: Robert Farago
….you seem to indicate don’t do anything. Even if the LEOs refuse to protect you, your family, your property or that of your neighbors.
[All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do NOTHING.]
It’s interesting that none of my follow-on comments have appeared.
I have to wonder as to why……
As the group’s resident nutbag conspiracy theorist, it is my solemn duty to inform you that SHIT HAPPENS SOMETIMES, and if you bitch here without contacting Robert via email, that shit all over your mouth is yours.
Damn. Guess I better change my privacy settings on fb.
Not that it matters at this point. Does young and stupid still work in court??? Lol
Maybe, but only if you’re still young and stupid.
well, it looks like…
(puts on sunglasses)
the jury is still out on that one.
(i couldnt resist. ive had a horrible day.)
I learned that judges can change things and persuade the jury to pick manslaughter. Zimmerman is not on trial. It is “will the black people riot or not trial?” Which is, they will anyway. Not being racist, I have noticed all the postings on the social media networks.
Are you afraid of riots or praying for them?
Ralph, you owe me yet another new keyboard.
If a criminal takes advantage of willful soft targets in my neighborhood I don’t see the problem. Sufficed to say I won’t be going on any watches and sticking my neck out for the same people who want me disarmed and think the police will protect them.
But how’s about For the Children?
Point #2 was one of my immediate conclusions. This whole neighborhood watch thing seems like a lot of risk and very little gain.
Neighberhood watch is a great idea. You see an actual crime or suspicious behaviour you report it to the cops. Happens all the time and it’s a great way for neighbors to watch each other’s back.
GZ took it to a whole other level and now his life is going to be a circus for years to come. Nobody was being robbed or raped or murdered. He had the luxury of just watching and talking to the cops. Now it’s up to a jury to decide if what he did was worthy of jail time.
the “neighborhood watch” effect was the ONLY thing that got a house on my parents’ street busted for selling meth. nobody would do anything about it, and it went on for years – fights, pitbull attacks, cars peeling out in the road, car prowlings, etc. the only thing that stopped it was my dad’s constant harrassment of 911 to come and take a look at this house, which had zero effect until my dad made good friends with the husband of the city prosecutor. what did they find when they busted the house? surprise – tons of pot, heroin, and meth, and a malnourished old woman whose resident caretaker, her daughter, was selling all of it.
oh yeah.. and right in front of her house, on a street light pole was the good old 1970s “neighborhood watch in effect” sign. it worked, but only because one person was persistent about it.
On the other hand if involved citizens stop bad things from happening no one bitches one bit. If a man happens upon two or more perps committing evil you need more than a phone in your hand or to sit in your car.
It’s thankless and selfless work… which is possibly why it seems so alien to you.
Thankless, selfless, and fodder for the prosecution if you ever have a DGU. Yeah, sounds awesome.
Neighborhood Watch works in my township, but plain old neighbors watching works even better. Crime is rare, but when it happens neighbors act. We haven’t had a burglary in the neighborhood for 24 years, until three or four weeks ago. Then we had three houses approached in two weeks by two sets of perps from the city. Both events have been solved. In the second, affecting two houses whose owners were at work, neighbors helped the PD corner the perps. I had the same experience ten years ago, though it wasn’t about burglary. Zero tolerance for crime only works if neighbors are willing to call, go outside and observe, and testify if needed. I wouldn’t live in a different sort of town.
” searching and clearing your house, property and/or immediate vicinity – deeply inadvisable and incredibly dangerous.” Yes, but when the cops don’t show up, you do what’s necessary to secure your home and protect your family.
My son discovered our house had just been burgled, and called me at work, then we called the cops. I came home immediately. An hour later, the cops hadn’t shown up. We didn’t know to use the ‘code words’ “Burglary in process“. I cleared the house. The cops only showed up after I filed a complaint with the Police Chief’s office – hours later.
Not Guilty on all counts. And I doubt the violence driven media will even get a small riot going after the verdict.
Florida is one of my least favorite states, it’s a complete craphole for the most part, but at least they got a sense of what self-defense means and allow the right to use deadly force when one feels justified to do so. This isn’t a almost all black jury like OJ, but it will be a not guilty verdict just the same.
A thug is a thug a patriot is a patriot, if one does not know which is which in this case they need their head examined, or fieldgoaled in.
Extrapolating from the number of neighbors (and witnesses) who moved out of the Retreat at Twin Lakes once the burglaries started to go through the roof, the lesson of the GZ trial seems to be the same one learned in Chicago and Philadelphia: Once a town or city tears down housing projects, as Sanford did, and sends the many hundreds of former residents off to other neighborhoods with Section 8 vouchers, an owner is a fool to stay where the vouchers go. It seems to say that nothing has changed, that “he who moves first moves best,” that the first defecting former resident loses the least, and that the key RE lesson is still to buy only in a neighborhood which have no condos or townhouses cheap enough to become Section 8 rentals. Toll Brothers must be thrilled. Sad.
All that is necessary for EVIL to prevail is for good men to do NOTHING!
Make that one more…..
And if we follow #3 to its logical conclusion, everyone who posts on TTAG is up sh$t creek.
Robert, I’m disappointed. Seems you jumped at the smell of ketchup somewhere in the house, but it was next door: Zimmerman is being tried not because of any self-defense issue, but because PC America wants us to believe only cops are qualified to render assistance.
Why is this trial not a MISTRIAL, at this point? I did a cursory search of judges in high-profile cases storming our of active courtrooms, and couldn’t find anything like it.
Maybe Ralph could shed some light on this? Not only should it be a mistrial, this judge should have her bench dumped on her head. UNPROFESSIONAL, much?
I can’t see this as anything other than self-defense. Even if you walk around with an attitude – and I think Z. had an attitude – when mortally attacked, your right to defend life an limb remains intact. Even a contract killer retains such rights.
But the elephant in this room is the same old elephant: an opportunity to foment racial unrest. Tell me who you think wins in situations like that?
@William Burke, all judges are @ssh0les. I think it’s a job requirement. But Nelson doesn’t seem better or worse than most of the others.
Ive seen some asshole judges.
and believe me, their antics made me smile inside (i couldnt muster the courage to smile overtly and draw their wrath) and made me happy that the shit heads of society got spanked.
And by ‘nothing’ I recognize fleeing from the threat as such.
May as well ‘give in’ because eventually, there will be no place left to flee to…..
….two comments in a row not showing up.
Did I touch a ‘nerve’ with you, Farago, with the earlier one?
I had some comments not show up. Then I rebooted my computer and it worked fine.
* Don’t give someone a legitimate reason to suspect your stalking them.
* If for some reason you can’t avoid following someone, then immediately identify yourself in a non-provocative manner.
* If you’re an adult, don’t play cop. Ever.
Yeah, good advice! He cooperated and was still charged. Never waive your Miranda rights and always have a lawyer present when being questioned. The police are not going to go harder on you just because you lawyer up, and they won’t go easier on you just because you agree to talk. You can be polite and courteous and still assert your right to counsel. In fact, it’s in your best interest to do so. Always.
There was no patrolling gong on. Zimmerman was on his way to do the weekly grocery shopping when he saw someone suspicious. It’s hard to believe you know anything at all about this case if you’re repeating nonsense like that. You’re almost as credible as Jesse “Trayvon was shot in the back” Jackson.
Making pronouncements? Like splattering pro gun rhetoric all over the interwebz? I am so screwed.
Hard to see how #2 takeaway was learned by observing this trial; from day one through the closing arguments the defense has stressed repeatedly that GZ was not on patrol. He was driving to the Target.
If I see the kind of blatantly odd behavior TM exhibited happening in my neighborhood I will respond just like GZ did; I view that as potential threat to my family. It’s not like George or I live in ghettos or on Bourbon Street- we deliberately live in neighborhoods that are by design supposed to be relatively safe. George was reacting to an anomaly- although that anomaly was threatening to become a regular occurrence. Why is GZ wrong in working to protect his family and neighborhood?
This takeaway is a disgusting example of navel-gazing narcissism of the kind that develops in people who can’t maintain relationships or communities. Zimmerman did the right thing, the right way, the legal way. And this case should never have been brought against him.
Agreed. Not only was he not on patrol that night, but his neighbors all indicated (those that were asked) that patrolling was not something he did anyway.
If you’re involved in a DGU, you should also ask to be taken to the hospital to be checked out.
How about this nugget of wisdom from Bruce Lee:
Nowadays you don’t go around on the street kicking people, punching people — because if you do (makes gun shape with hand), well that’s it — I don’t care how good you are.
Item #2: Bullshit. A ‘neighborhood watch’ is a perfect example of the ‘militia’ the Anti’s are always screaming to see more of (and then screaming when it happens). They can’t have it both ways, so screw ’em with a cactus.
“Protected by Smith & Wesson” signs around your property will come back to haunt you.
You know they are a legit Security Service right?
Youtube is full of “channels” by gun NUTS (no in a good way) with handles like “human-for-targets”, with accounts of,”I had to pull my gun (in a traffic dispute).” Others taunting police with open carry. I cringe. They are morons and should not be allowed to carry a gun in public. I know, avoid danger and conflict when I carry, and it is for MY protection not the public. Many gun carry folks think they are “Patriots” and “Sheep Dogs” and some how out to protect the public. YOU ARE NOT THE POh-POh. I don’t dream of taking out a mass shooter and being a hero.
Real heroes don’t dream about heroics. They are often just at the wrong place at the right time. Those “heroes” who dream about it end up dead and/or are certifiable.
open carry people piss me off too.
These self righteous, arrogant assholes do nothing but draw unnecessary attention to themselves and widen the schism between the armed and unarmed.
There is a reason why a significant number of police officers are killed with their own guns and a significant number of concealed carriers are not. Its because open carry is tactically idiotic.
It depends on where you open carry. If you are in a gun friendly environment open carry offends a tiny minority who are marginalized anyway. When I am in Colorado I am forced either to go unarmed or openly carry because Colorado doesn’t have reciprocity with Virginia. I choose to open carry. I have never had any problems with people or the police in Larimer County or similar locations. I am sure there are some left and right coast transplants that object but their neighbors just laugh at them.
Does the liberal media still think GZ is white? If so this white muslim illegal immigrant is doing a wonderful job. Best theirs been since Carter! Remember! If we just hold hands and sing it will all go away!
This is probably going into the ether but the Jury has asked for clarification on manslaughter. That sounds like not guilty on murder in the second. It also sounds like they may be willing to convict on manslaughter. So at this point it looks a hung jury at best for Zimmerman.
Shoot, shovel, shut up.
Local PD has in the Neighborhood Watch literature that NW workers should patrol.
With this incident we were emailed telling us Not to patrol.
I immediately quit NW and it is almost non existant now.
I have walked in here for years but started walking elsewhere.
I have caught criminals in this neighborhood before and am more qualified than any officer here to carry a gun and use it. FACT. And they know it.
I will no longer help anyone here , everyone for themselves.
I recently watched a home for six days because the family was under threat and I did not see a PD car those days. Gee, call me a Cracker, I am White the family is Black !
Just ran across this blog. I like it. Well written with some humor and lot’s of smart people contributing. For me, there is not much left to say about the GZ trial. I’ve vented my spleen elsewhere on this subject, such that I am now ready to take a breath. Of course it goes almost without saying that over the coming days, other people, will will no doubt, do or say things relating to the case that absolutely requires a comment from me, just to keep the world in balance. I guess I’m just commenting at this point to introduce myself, note that I am favorably impressed with this site, and make known my intention to return.
I’ve been defending Zimmerman all over the internet……..until tonight. I thought I had read everything relating to the trial. I thought I had watched all the trial video. But somehow I missed the police interrogation . I had just finished listening to the Zimmerman 911 call for the umpteenth time when I happened on the audio of the interrogation. When the police investigators talked to him about getting out of the car, I didn’t believe Zimmerman’s answer. He lied to make himself look less like he was stalking Martin. Then I listened again to his 911 call. Dawned on me that to Zimmerman, Martin was a punk and the punks always got away with it.
There is no proof that Martin sucker punched Zimmerman. In fact from Zimmerman’s attitude on the 911 call and his lying to the police, I think Zimmerman probably tried to restrain Martin. He probably stuck out his hand to stop Martins forward progress. And that is when Martin started hitting him. That could just as easily have been what started the physical assault as the story Zimmerman is telling. Remember, he lied about why he got out of his car. What I am saying is just as likely a scenario as the unprovoked sucker punch story Zimmerman tells.
Do you know how hard it is for a young male in this country today not to have had any scrapes with the law? Martin had no scrapes. Zimmerman has been arrested twice. Zimmerman is on temazapam. Its a very strong drug with some powerful side effects. Zimmerman is also on adderal. That is often prescribed to obsessive compulsives. You do know Zimmerman made 46 911 calls don’t you?.
Bottom line, a young man goes out to get some candy and tea. He’s minding his own business and is gunned down. The exact circumstances of the shooting are told to us through various means by the shooter. I admit, I did buy his story. Now that I’ve listen to his police interview, I’m not buying it anymore. As a person of at least moderate intelligence, I reserve the right, in the light of new information, to change my mind.
Maybe it wasn’t murder 2. But he needed to be held accountable on some level. He needed to do some jail time for what he did.
If you are also looking for important details that get left out, don’t forget the Robitussin. That was also in the bag.