There Is No Substitute for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Minneapolis Police riot

A check-cashing business burns during protests in Minneapolis. Protests continued following the death of George Floyd, who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police officers on Memorial Day. (AP Photo/John Minchillo)

Many people might believe that the state has a legal “public duty” to protect their lives and persons. This theory is dubious, and in fact, it has failed in court when put to the test. In the 1981 case Warren v. District of Columbia, the Washington government successfully argued that it had no such obligation to three women who were held hostage and repeatedly raped and beaten over a 14-hour period on Sunday. Although two of the women had repeatedly called 911 just when the incident began, an incompetent police response failed to find them, resulting in the plaintiffs’ prolonged, horrific ordeal. Based on the same logic, a separate plaintiff, in that case, lost his case after a Washington, D.C., police officer let the men go who had been beating him and bashing in his car without identifying them so that he could seek restitution.

On the other end of the country, the Seattle Police recently made the same stipulation, albeit more reluctantly. Police Chief Carmen Best had to warn business owners downtown that, thanks to a new ordinance forbidding nonlethal crowd control tools such as pepper spray, the police would be unable to protect their establishments from harm. The legislation, she wrote, “gives officers NO ability to safely intercede to preserve property in the midst of a large, violent crowd.”

The lesson here is clear. Even in a world with fully-funded police, citizens require the means to protect themselves. But in a world where police become less effective or less competent (or possibly even more brutal), or vanish because of a misguided effort to defund them, there is no substitute for the right to keep and bear arms. People who are fearful of crime will be more likely to exercise that right, and it may not always be a good thing.

When public officials talk about abolishing the police, they need to consider all the consequences.

– Editorial, Abolish police, and the Second Amendment becomes a first resort

comments

  1. avatar No one of consequence says:

    Well, the state (as in political entity) does have a duty to protect the public that it represents in general, and a bunch of political entities are failing to do just that.

    There should be consequences for the officials, elected and non-, making decisions that betray the public trust.

    1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      “There should be consequences for the officials, elected and non-, making decisions that betray the public trust.”

      In a sane world, yes. The reality is, the ballot box is the only option they know, and they throw up their hands in despair when things don’t work they way they should. A major change in governing never occurs to them.

      In the 80s, Seattle was a city I wanted to live in. Green, temperate climate, good gun laws (not any more!) and a laid-back lifestyle.

      Holy crap. What a dystopian nightmare it turned into. I keep hoping they will wake up and change direction, but they are Hell-bent on driving that train right off the cliff.

      How can any sane population put up with public defecation? I cannot wrap my head around that…

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        18 USC 242.

        Government officials that prevent law enforcement from using necessary force to protect the civil rights of law abiding citizens are effectively conspiring to deprive those rights under color of law.

        This is a clear Federal civil rights case and these politicians should be arrested by Federal law enforcement and prosecuted by the US DOJ.

        1. avatar gus says:

          should have been recognized and prosecuted from the start.

        2. avatar Mark N. says:

          18 USC section 242 does not apply to state politicians and employees due to the immunity of the 11th Amendment. Municipal police officers can be prosecuted, but it is unclear whether a criminal complaint can be brought against politicians under this criminal statute (as opposed to under the civil analogue of 42 USC section 1983) for stand down orders. Perhaps they should be; stand down orders have become the weapons of choice for politicians who cannot stop protected activity with which they disagree, but have been withdrawing police defense against violence by counter-protesters.

      2. avatar strych9 says:

        “I keep hoping they will wake up and change direction, but they are Hell-bent on driving that train right off the cliff.”

        I’m still waiting to see the breakdown of the comments the City Council received in both Seattle and Portland. They did get some “end the crazy” comments but I’d like to know the percentage they made up of the total.

        As for public defecation… first, when ya gotta go, ya gotta go and second, are you referring to the piles in the streets or the piles coming from the mouths of politicians?

        1. avatar Eric Swalwell says:

          “…are you referring to the piles in the streets or the piles coming from the mouths of politicians?”

          When we pass our human centipede bill, they will be one in the same, and then we will have harmony. I, myself, am a one man human centipede. Look to me children of America! Behold! *brrrrrrt* See your future…….. that wasn’t a coffee cup, although it does taste like it was coffee at one point.

          Eric Swalwell 2020

        2. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          From the politicians is SOP. I’ve seen some newspaper commentary from the 1700s where one politician outright calls another’s wife a whore. Vile from the pols is nothing new.

          The stuff in the streets ought to be frightening them. Your wife could regal you with tales of what’s in feces. Hepatitis, etc. I really hope the good people there band together and class-action sue the metaphorical (if not literal) crap out of them for exposing the citizens to the disease vectors in it. But no, they tolerate it. Because they are *compassionate*…

        3. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          EDIT – They can and will fine or imprison you there for not cleaning up your dog’s shit in public, but not human shit.

          The mind *boggles*…

        4. avatar No one of consequence says:

          Geoff: What if my dog identifies as a human?

        5. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          My late cat considered herself human, but at least she kept her shit in the litterbox… 🙂

      3. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

        We have seen it time and again from the USSR to China to Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea, half a dozen or more African countries, with Rhodesia now Zimbabwe being a prime example, and most recently in Venezuela and now ongoing in South Africa. No matter how many times this ideology fails they keep going back to that same trough.

        Socialism/Communism/leftism/progressivism and all of the related nuance ideologies are broken. They cannot and will not work, ever, anywhere. They go against the laws of nature and of human nature. They can only destroy. If taken to their final logical conclusion they would result in the destruction of all human life. Fortunately the laws of nature and of human nature almost always turn them aside before they get that far, resulting in MERELY massive suffering and death.

        Any society or community that goes down this road will suffer the same fate and consequences. Many American cities are in that process now.

        At some level the real core adherents to these toxic philosophies know this and are in fact nihilists who think they prefer the destruction of all human life to their supposedly miserable existence,. The rest are ignorant fools and dupes who have been deluded into believing that hierarchy can be eliminated and equality can be achieved.

        Hierarchy is the very source of human achievement, with the free market directing the most resources to those who prove best at using them to provide value to their fellow man. The market is nothing more than the sum of all choices made by all people. The market is the ultimate distributed processing network and the ultimate democracy. We trifle with it at our peril. The socialists seek it’s destruction, and with it, the destruction of all civilization.

        1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          “Socialism/Communism/leftism/progressivism and all of the related nuance ideologies are broken. They cannot and will not work, ever, anywhere.”

          Actually, it’s working in present-day Vietnam. Communism with capitalistic characteristics…

        2. avatar Dude says:

          “No matter how many times this ideology fails they keep going back to that same trough.”

          That’s because it doesn’t fail. It works exactly as it’s intended to work. What is the ultimate goal of politicians pitting their own people against each other? Do you think they’re trying to make the world a better place? They’re doing it for the sole purpose of obtaining power. These aren’t sincere people, but they will gladly use sincere ideologues (useful idiots) as long as it gets them into a position of more power. Those idiots think everything will magically be okay then as if Biden, Pelosi, and Schumer haven’t been the people in charge for decades.

          The old revolutionary playbook was class warfare, they just added race warfare to the mix.

        3. avatar tdiinva says:

          You confuse a label with practice. China and Vietnam are no longer communist countries. The “Communist” in the party name is just a brand identifier. They have long ago abandoned Lenin for Mussolini.

        4. avatar PMinFl says:

          I could understand their position IF we had a monarchy but the U.S,A, with all of it’s problems, still has the best and most stable political system in the world. These anarchists believe that they can destroy this system, because of it’s problems, and replace it with ….what? Being the king, president, prime minister, any leader is good as long as YOU’RE the leader. You can bet they will screw the useful idiot followers when their goals are met, always do.

        5. avatar Dude says:

          “replace it with ….what?”

          A system that guarantees one party rule for a generation or more.

      4. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

        …and here we have :

        “Seattle Moves To Replace ‘Racist’ Police With ‘Trauma-Informed, Gender-Affirming, Anti-Racist’ Organizations”

        “The Seattle City Council advanced legislation on Friday which would replace the ‘racist institution of policing’ with a civilian-led activities and organizations under a new ‘Department of Community Safety & Violence Prevention.’

        The organizations replacing the SPD will need to demonstrate several characteristics, including:

        – Culturally-relevant expertise rooted in community connections

        – Well versed in de-escalation skills and mental health support

        – Trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis

        – Connected to resources like housing, food security, and other basic needs”

        https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/seattle-moves-replace-racist-police-trauma-informed-gender-affirming-anti-racist

        1. avatar Ing says:

          The council wants to create “a new civilian led department to guide public safety.”

          Who the hell do they think leads the police department? Last I checked, it was the mayor and city council who hired the police chief — and they’re ALL civilians. As are the police.

          Also, read between the lines: they’re *not* abolishing the police — just the police department as such. There WILL be police, and they’ll operate at the behest of that “Trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis” social justice committee, which means you can say goodbye to the entire principle of equality under the law.

          The council also recommends the “immediate transfer of underutilized public land for BIPOC community ownership, including, where necessary, purchase and activation capital and upfront transaction costs.”

          Nothing Marxist or Communist about that, is there. No, not at all. At least they’re only demanding the handover of public land and tax money for their communes…but hey, they’re not total idiots. You can’t destroy the bourgeois economy in one single blow; you start small and then scale up.

          Whether any of this comes to fruition is a very different story — people can propose all sorts of stupid shit that goes nowhere — but remember, this is the elected city council in the biggest city in the northwest US, not some randos on the fringe.

          I wonder when people are going to wake the fuck up and stop voting for these Marxist creeps.

    2. avatar Kenneth Phillips says:

      We should file a recall petition on anyone in office who shows that opinion.

      1. avatar PMinFl says:

        But the lefties love it !! No recall, maybe re-election.

    3. avatar tommy2fer says:

      What in Warren vs DC and other SCOTUS rulings do you not understand??? LEOs can stand next to you as you are beaten, raped, or murdered and not be held personally liable for failings to protect you. There is no duty to protect. “To Protect and Serve” is merely a sweet lie on the side of patrol cars. It should read “To call the Coroner and and draw chalk outlines….we ain’t here to get second guessed and sued anymore”

      1. avatar Team Firefox says:

        “To Protect & Serve” has become a mockery of what it should mean.

        Use your gun (baseball bat, stick, whatever) to protect yourself, and then you find out it becomes “Protect (The crime scene) and Serve (The District Attorney)”. There is nothing else they do.

    4. avatar JRB says:

      Remember, Marxists do not believe in consequences for them. They are god and are exempt. They just believe in consequences to control everyone else’s lives.

    5. avatar charles osborne says:

      First police do not have to protect its citizens , they only have to protect the governments assets period . As a former police officer , police can not be every where so you need as a citizen under the second amendment of the constitution learn to govern yourself.

  2. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

    I truly do have a cold, black heart.

    Fuck ’em. Give them exactly what they want. See how ‘Trained Conflict Resolution Councilors’ do when dealing with predators and the mentally ill…

    1. avatar Shire-man says:

      It may be the only way they learn.
      With these lefties and dependents there’s always some fool to come along exhibiting foolish weakness like empathy willing to clean up their mess or bail them out.
      Until people are left free to truly suffer the consequences of their actions they’ll never learn to clean up their act. At the very least the wort offenders will wind up dead from their poor choices and no longer be a burden to the rest of us.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        History has proven they do not learn.

      2. avatar PMinFl says:

        Let them burn down the cities of Portland and Seattle but make them stay there in the remnants and live in their brave new world. Keep the vermin right there at home to relish the results. And don’t finance any rebuild with federal taxpayer’s money, the locals can do that. Lots of rich liberals there.

        1. avatar Mainer_ExCop says:

          +1

    2. avatar drunkEODguy says:

      I really can’t wait to see these guidance counselor soy-latte mofo’s roll around with some retards in the stratosphere on bathsalts or bad synthetics. I’ve had to do it myself and its no fun whatsoever for physical dudes who have a solid fighting base and mindset, much less effete psudeo-intellectuals.

  3. avatar Leigh says:

    That’s not the way it works in lefty-land…it’s more…we have to pass it to see what’s in it…
    or…we have to do SOMEthing…even if it makes things worse…
    or the oldest line…if it saves just ONE…OK…unless it is a fetus that is involved…
    or… only cops and military should have guns…
    and now…we can’t trust the cops…oops
    both sides are hypocrites…don’t get me wrong…

  4. avatar Leigh says:

    so…they want to get rid of cops…AND get rid of guns…
    so…the strongest thugs survive?

    1. avatar California Richard says:

      English long bows and crossbows! Unless the Pope outlaws them. In which case, we must break from the church and form our own church, lest our small American island be overcome by the French.

      1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

        A peasant in possession of a crossbow in medieval England got sentenced to death…

        1. avatar California Richard says:

          That’s why we need to get the CAD files for untraceable ghost crossbows out there before big tech tries to shut us down. 3d printers and CNC machines are whichcraft devices that magically turn harmless plastic string or a block of alloy in to weapons. You could get burned at the stake for being in league with the devil!

      2. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

        CR – maybe watch Joerg Sprave’s “Sling Shot” channel then. I imagine that antifa is.

        1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          (Insert Joerg Sprave’s booming laugh *here*)…

  5. avatar Mad Max says:

    ” Police Chief Carmen Best had to warn business owners downtown that, thanks to a new ordinance forbidding nonlethal crowd control tools such as pepper spray, the police would be unable to protect their establishments from harm. The legislation, she wrote, “gives officers NO ability to safely intercede to preserve property in the midst of a large, violent crowd.””

    The ordnance forbids “nonlethal crowd control tools”; so use lethal ones.

    1. avatar California Richard says:

      I suppose it all comes down to who has the greater nerve. Are the cops willing to stand their ground for a city building to the point where their lives are in danger and forced to use deadly force? Are the rioters willing to kill people (cops) to burn a building? If the answer is yes on both accounts, then we have civil war. Any politician who speaks on behalf of the riots at that point is a traitor, and needs to be hung or put in front of a firing squad.

      1. avatar Kenneth Phillips says:

        Sad but true. Recall petitions should be signed by every one on the spot.

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      What ever happened to using fire hoses and high-pressure water to discourage mobs? I have yet to see a single fire hose in action this year.

      1. avatar PMinFl says:

        ^^^YES^^^^^give ’em what they’re asking for.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          A bath?

          You know, that might work. A truckload of soap, a truckload of job applications and a firehose might just disperse this group.

        2. avatar California Richard says:

          “There are only 2 four-letter-words hippies don’t use: S-O-A-P and W-O-R-K.”

          -Gen. Curtis Lemay

      2. avatar Dude says:

        And you can kill two birds with one stone by also putting out their fires.

  6. avatar LifeSavor says:

    It is always the leftist elected officials who fail to protect the public and facilitate chaos, endangering lives and property.

    I do not understand how leftist mayors and governors expect to survive the 2020 elections. Yes, Google, Facebook, and Twitter are subverting the news, hiding the truth, but, as several people in Chicago and Seattle have told me, “you just walk a few blocks and the reality is right there”.

    That, and Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, Infowars, Zero Hedge, Natural News, OAN, Epoch Times, Gab, Banned.video and a wide field of conservative journalists and bloggers have world-wide reach and influence.

    The truth will out; the left is powerful, but so is truth, and so are we.

    1. avatar John Bryan says:

      Sorry, if the trend towards a total mail-in, online elections continues it’s pretty much over – welcome to the new and improved People’s Republic of America. If anyone doesn’t think the leftist/statist/Fascist/Progressive crowd isn’t drooling over mail-in/online elections, which would guarantee them staying in power in perpetuity, they’re kidding themselves. Unless we’re willing to allow the misery, death and destruction of another civil war. More and more I’m not seeing any other path out of this – a Fascist nightmare or a brutally corrective bloodletting. Sad, sad, sad…

      1. avatar Kenneth Phillips says:

        It is going to come to that. If we didn’t have the 2 Amendment, it already would have.
        If you don’t have a gun it’s time to get one and learn how to use it.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Speaking of the 2A, I saw this on Zerohedge this morning. In his zeal to denounce the unconstitutionality of the CHAZ/CHOP movement, he lumped everything he saw the protesters doing into the “bad” category and then scrutinized it all in a very lengthy article. He was spot-on for most of it, but when he got to the guns, he went off the rails. It’s worth the time to read, but here are some highlights that stuck out for me [emphases mine]:

          “There is no such thing as a constitutional right to violent protest or to overthrow of the state or an unregulated right to bear arms!”

          “The operative words
          [of the 2A] there are ‘well regulated.’ So, yes this right can be regulated. It says so right in the very expression of the right.”

          “It is specifically for the purpose of assuring security of the STATE. Not even the security of the people; the security of the state.”

          https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2020-07-31/how-chaz-got-chopped-seattle-made-itself-petri-dish-polluted-liberal-ideas

        2. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          “It is specifically for the purpose of assuring security of the STATE. Not even the security of the people; the security of the state.”

          Well, then…

          If “The right of the people” means the state, then “We, the people,…” must also only apply only to the government.

          And the same for every other ‘right’, such as :

          “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,…”

          Whoops. Then the government can enter your home and search you for any reason, at any time.

          “…or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,…”

          Whoops, again – Only the government can gather when they want, all others must ask permission?

          You know, that whole “the people” thing is awfully pesky.

          I know! How about we make it, “the people” means every citizen? 🙂

        3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          The author completely overlooked and disregarded D.C. v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), in which SCOTUS reaffirmed the 2A as an individual right, and not centered on the State.

          Much like many lower courts have disregarded it as well.

      2. avatar Dude says:

        I just early voted in the primary (not presidential). Everyone wore masks and kept their distance. I showed my ID and signed my name with my own pen. They gave us a q-tip so you didn’t have to touch the nasty buttons. They had hand sanitizer, but I had my own. Piece of cake. Having a long early voting is the key, instead of trying to cram everyone in there in one afternoon.

        BTW, I was probably the second youngest person there, and I’m middle aged. Are these young revolutionaries even voting?

        1. avatar LifeSavor says:

          Dude,

          You raise a good question. If Biden remains the candidate, I doubt the far left will be highly motivated to vote for an old, white, inside-the-beltway guy. People do not vote for platforms, they vote for people.

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          LifeSavor,

          They won’t be voting for Biden. More and more people are realizing that the Dems’ head-fake involves the VP pick being groomed to take over. Even higher profile mouthpieces such as Ben Shapiro are openly stating their recognition that this seems to be the DNC’s strategy.

          Per the USC 25th Amendment, all that is required to depose the President (and install the VP as new President) is a majority vote of the Cabinet plus the VP him/herself. There are currently 15 members in Trump’s Cabinet, so if Biden has the same number, then it is entirely (and constitutionally) possible that a planned “soft coup” of the Presidency could happen if Biden strategically installs people into his Cabinet who will agree to vote for his removal at an agreed-upon future date. Only 8 of them will be necessary, so when added to the VP’s (Kamala’s??) own guaranteed vote, then **boom!** she’ll “immediately” become President. And that’s when the hounds of Leftist Hell will be unleashed upon us.

        3. avatar John Bryan says:

          See my earlier post – they don’t have to actually vote, that’ll be taken care of for them. If we actually go to total vote by mail/internet I guarantee Mr. Biden’s party will “find” plenty of votes to ensure his election. Along with every other party member on every other ticket. They’ll then make sure they maintain a permanent majority for as long as it takes to enact the agenda. Will there then be a reckoning that reestablishes the Republic? Or will we Balkanize into multiple polities? Or will the Left’s Fascist fantasy of “perfection” (a boot stamping on a human face –forever) finally happen? I truly hope I’m totally wrong about what right now appears inevitable sometime in the near future – but sadly, if history is the predictor it typically is, I’m probably not.

    2. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      “I do not understand how leftist mayors and governors expect to survive the 2020 elections.”

      *Snort*

      They will win re-election to the sounds of loud *cheering*…

      1. avatar LifeSavor says:

        Geoff……..,

        Conservative candidates will achieve a big sweep in Nov.

        Vote-by-mail will lose in the courts.

        After the election you will say “I can’t believe it! Lifesavor was actually right about something. Who woulda thunk?”

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Few would be surprised. LifeSavor is one of the voices of reason speaking softly within the cacophony of TTAG.

        2. avatar Chief Justice John Roberts says:

          “Vote-by-mail will lose in the courts…”

          Hold my beer…..

    3. avatar tdiinva says:

      If we are down to Infowars and zetohedge we have already lost.

      1. avatar LifeSavor says:

        TDIINVA,

        OK, but do not underestimate the reach of what we used to call the ‘alt-right’ media.

      2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        I was an active participant of Zerohedge beginning in 2011. I finally left (cancelled my username and login) in 2015 because the comments section had lurched from right-leaning conservative libertarian to left-leaning, anti-Semitic, vulgar, circus of trolls. I still read it every day for news, but have no interest whatsoever in the comments. Nothing but a mosh pit of people yelling at each other.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          I suspect that a lot of that anti-Semitic trash talk came from false flaggers so someone could declare it a hate site. The right needs to police this stuff. I know it takes work put look what happen to the Federalist. In today’s internet world, no comments, no traffic. If the site manager wants to give a poster the benefit of the doubt for a while, fine but they have to get rid of the obvious trolls.

    4. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      LifeSavor,

      It is always the leftist elected officials who fail to protect the public and facilitate chaos, endangering lives and property.

      The explanation is simple. The more chaos there is, the more:
      1) People cry out to government to fix the chaos.
      2) Government demands more resources from the people.
      3) Government demands that people give up more rights.
      4) Government never actually does anything effective.
      5) Chaos increases.
      6) Back to (1) above.

      Wash, rinse, and repeat.

      If there were zero chaos, no one would see any need for government and the people would dissolve government.

      What we are seeing is almost a subset of that. People are seeing that there is chaos and yet government (policing) is ineffective. So people are now demanding that government defund police. And why not if policing is ineffective?

  7. avatar strych9 says:

    Of course there’s a substitute.

    It’s just not the one most people would pick given the choice and knowing the cold, hard reality of life.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      They want to “feel safe”. They want to believe that any system works, and will protect them.

      The reality is, nobody is going to help or defend you 99% of the time, and every system is flawed and failed. At least a conservative way of life acknowledges this. Leftists just keep failing, harder each time, and it gets bloodier each time too.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        Drop them off in some areas of Southern or East Africa for six months to a year. The survivors will come back not just different but different enough to demand NFA repeal.

        I’ve got some choice spots to drop ’em off.

  8. avatar Andrew B says:

    The people who want to abolish the police are the same set of geniuses who thought that the solution to mistreatment of mentally ill patients was to turn them loose. It was the exact same theory at work–“We have an imperfect system. Instead of fixing it, let’s dismantle it and…uh…replace it with…uh…something…later.” It has been nearly 50 years and the streets are flooded with a growing population of the mentally ill with no solution in sight. Just imagine 50 years without effective law enforcement.

    1. avatar PMinFl says:

      ^^Thank you,^^

  9. avatar Nam62 says:

    Now that the Police will not protect us. Than they have NO jurisdiction when a home owner protects his Home or Family with lethal force!!!! The cops just report another bad guy is at room temperature..

    1. avatar Tired of the bs says:

      That’s it. When the people know the po po are a no show the people need to do what needs to be done.

  10. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

  11. avatar Jimmy james says:

    1981 case Warren v. District of Columbia, Landmark case that is little known. As I recall, officers came to the building more than once during the assaults and thought better of going in without (much) more backup. As always you are on your own and you are your own first and best defense.

    1. avatar Anymouse says:

      Also Castle Rock v. Gonzales. Ex-husband kept the 3 kids later than the agreement allowed. She wanted it enforced. The town police did nothing, and the 3 kids were found dead in his truck the next morning after he did a suicide by cop by firing into the police department.

  12. avatar Phantom30 says:

    There are four steps of a Coup D’etat
    Step 1: Manipulate Information (take over the media)
    Step 2: Defund the police
    Step 3: De-arm the citizens
    Step 4: The removal of Statues and History
    This stuff is not new, that is one of the reasons we have a 2nd amendment
    What really amazes me is the lack of competence in the LE community
    There is no intelligence and no surveillance activities associated with these riots
    No court orders and legal search seizure and no arrests no prosecution
    These Blue state folks are true “useful idiots”
    and those who know are so tied up in social nonsense that law and order is no longer relevant
    we are in real trouble and need Divine intervention as a result of appeal to heaven

    1. avatar Darkman says:

      Blue print of every Despotic Regime in history. Socialism,Fascism and Communism. People were willingly lead into these conditions based on promises of a Utopian Society. Only to learn far to late that Utopia has and never will Exist. Leaving the people with two choices. Continue to live in Oppression or Shoot Your Way Out. Some have learned from history and cut the head off the False Prophecy. Before it’s mesmerizing glare engulfs them or will It be allowed to lead Our Nation into the Despair of Tyrannical Despotism. Courage will make that determination or the lack of it. Keep Your Powder Dry…Choose Wisely.

    2. avatar Dude says:

      Phantom30, I would add the following to your list

      -Promote class and tribal warfare
      -Promote “Civil unrest”
      -Govt tells you what you can and can’t purchase
      -Disincentivize working by burdensome regs and taxes to dissuade you from entrepreneurship
      -Further disincentivize working by offering attractive welfare programs making you dependent on the govt
      -Govt wants to take over industries
      -Open borders and flood the country with non-citizens

      That’s weird, it’s basically the democrat party platform.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Sounds a bit like some of the 27 grievances listed in the DOI…

  13. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

    Portland, look at Detroit. There you see the reflection of yourself and what will happen over the next 10 to 15 years. There is a price for tax and spend, if you live there or anywhere the loony left has taken over be prepared for the taxation and the crazy. You have been warned!

    1. avatar Ross says:

      10-15 years? If Seattle and Portland get done what they’re pushing to get done it will be less than a year for that to happen not 10 to 15

    2. avatar GS650G says:

      Lots of cities were vibrant, productive places to live until rioting destroyed them. Most never came back. I don’t see these current wastelands ever being what was only 4 months ago. They will turn into ghost
      Towns.

      1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

        FYI, Detroit was executed by Asia, when Americans discovered they could buy an inexpensive, reliable car that wasn’t ‘Made in America’.

        The riots helped ‘seal the deal’, but the cancer was already terminal, by that point…

        1. avatar GS650G says:

          28 years of Coleman Young killed Detroit. 8 mile road became a border crossing.

  14. avatar Debbie W. says:

    Put some holes in looters and arsonists. That’ll take the steam out of ‘;em.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      “Many who live deserve death. And many who die, deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too quick to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.”

      – Gandalf the Grey

      1. avatar Ing says:

        I have to part ways with you on this one, Haz. Something tells me Tolkien would’ve given looters and arsonists short shrift. Nobody in his stories ever hesitated to kill Orcs when they showed up — nor should we, if we’re faced with people who act like them.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          That wasn’t my point. Note that Gandalf didn’t tell Frodo that the act of killing Gollum “as a mercy” wouldn’t be wrong…he was counseling Frodo not to make rash statements about wishing death upon others without thinkng it through, even if that act of killing turned out to be the correct path.

          Debbie typically tosses out rash statements, hence my reply. Everybody’s a Keyboard Kommando nowadays. FWIW, of an arsonist attempted to throw a Molotov at my home, I would send a 120g projectile toward his/her thoracic cavity at warp speed.

        2. avatar Ing says:

          Yes, typically she does, but this wasn’t one of them. High-velocity perforation (if the police can’t won’t stop them first) is the only proper prescription for anyone engaged in looting or arson. You don’t do it preemptively out of “mercy” or because they abstractly deserve it in your judgment, but because you HAVE to. I love that quote, but it doesn’t apply here.

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        Gandolf didn’t live in a Democrat controlled city.

  15. avatar Blind Willy McTell says:

    Long term fan of Mr. Zimmerman.
    The point of the article is the illogical path on which we are being led.
    The police have no Constitutional requirement to protect us. Not surprising because no police department existed when the Constitution was written. Also law enforcement officers are not hired guns.
    Based on current prosecutions, mainly in Democrat controlled states and cities, we have no right to actively defend ourselves although running, hiding and pleading for mercy may be lawfully acceptable if done respectfully and without antagonizing the alleged perpetrator who is already emotionally distressed.
    This leaves us to accept we have no help and we have no hope.
    As another Zimmerman said…When you have nothin’ you have nothin’ to lose

  16. avatar GS650G says:

    I’m waiting for the police to stop protecting the rioters and the DAs to get a little taste of what they caused. The law, legal system, and even jails don’t just protect us from bad people. These institutions also keep safe the perps so victims don’t met out justice and revenge. In Chicago that’s what they have, no legal system and instead it’s tit for tat.

    Wait until these mobs claim the cities and move out to expand their zones.

    1. avatar UpInArms says:

      ” Wait until these mobs claim the cities and move out to expand their zones ”

      That’s when the fun really starts. There’s been some noise out on the interweb questioning why gun-owners are not joining the “protestors” — after all, we’re both fighting against an oppressive totalitarian police state, right? Well, yeah, but each side has a very different view of how to go about it and what happens when it’s all over, and the pro-2A crowd is just taking a wait-and-see attitude (throw in a heaping dose of distrust here, too) and keeping their powder dry.

      The net result is the pro-2A’s (painting with a broad brush here) have basically forfeited the cities. They generally have no interest in what goes on there (a short-sighted view, but another conversation) and as long as the shit doesn’t hit the fan in their neighborhood, they don’t really care if the cities are reduced to ashes.

      Once there is nothing left to loot or burn, the shit doesn’t stop. It moves on to more fertile ground, and when that happens is when the real push-back starts. Few people will step up to defend that which doesn’t matter to them. When it becomes the defense of their own homes, well, that’s a whole different game.

      1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

        “The net result is the pro-2A’s (painting with a broad brush here) have basically forfeited the cities.”

        Maj Toure of Philadelphia would like a word with you.

        Your overall point holds. We have abandoned the major cities, because the big cities have made it clear we weren’t welcome there.

        I hope the seeds that Maj have planted are taken to other large cities in similar ways that Curtis Sliwa grew the ‘Guardian Angles’…

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        When they see the quantity and variety of weapons in the hands of people who won’t take it any more it’s going to be an eye opener. Then will find out what everyone is made out of. I’m hoping to avoid that conflict because nobody wins. But I’m not kneeling for anyone either.

  17. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

    *Yawn* The police are one of the standing armies the Founders of this country warned us of.

    Unfortunately the majority of you don’t want any actual freedom because that may require having to get your hands dirty. Its hystarical watching “grown” men turn into scared children at the thought if having to take care of themselves.

    You are on your own and always have been, this should come as a shock to no one. Must be a slow news day for TTAG.

    1. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

      This is your alter ego speaking. A puffed up chest on the internet, wow, impressive. Do you imagine yourself as more like Jack Reacher or Kelly Turnbull?

      1. avatar Chris Morton says:

        Memorize:

        * Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
        * Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
        * Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.

        Police don’t protect individuals. They draw chalk outlines around individuals unwilling or unable to protect themselves.

        Protect yourself or don’t get protected at all. Anybody who tells you different is a liar.

        1. avatar GS650G says:

          Police actions involve overwhelming numbers against one, or a few suspects. They can’t take on mobs and will fall back to a perimeter. Large riots require large forces and engagement. The rules of engagement cops are under are basically stand there and look tough. In the middle East wars soldiers were restricted too but at least they could actually defend themselves and use force.

          I can’t understand what cops are doing, or why they even bother to show up just to get spit on, mocked, and pelted with water bottles.

  18. avatar blackice85 says:

    I always said that if they wanted people to give up their guns, their best bet would be to make society as safe and peaceful as possible. It would admittedly be a lot harder to argue the need for them if crime, particularly violent crime, was all but non-existent. Unchecked crime and riots only reinforce a person’s desire to stay armed, and will even convert others who previously felt differently.

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Japan is close to that. They also have no tolerance for criminal behavior like we do. Even the yakuza knows their limits. But Japanese take security seriously because it’s considered everyone s responsibility to do so.
      Our crime problem stems from culture problems no law or gun ban can fix.

      1. avatar Mark says:

        LOL, they also have no presumption of innocence, and nothing remotely resembling 4A or 8A. And the yakuza, well, politicians just find it “uncomfortable” to deal with them, so they look the other way as long as they aim only for each other.

  19. avatar Sam I Am says:

    “There Is No Substitute for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms”

    If only that mattered to a super majority of the voters.

  20. avatar Christoph says:

    Two kinds of people expect the police to protect them as individuals:
    * small children
    * fools

    Unless you’ve got assigned bodyguards, protect yourself or don’t get protected at all. Anybody who tells you different is a liar.

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