There Is No Gun Show Loophole, No Matter What Shannon Watts Says

gun show loophole

A researcher simulates a check done for the National Instant Criminal Background Check System or NICS, at the FBI’s criminal justice center in Bridgeport, W.Va. (AP Photo/Matt Stroud)

No matter what red t-shirt-wearing moms and flailing presidential candidates may say, the gun show loophole is virtually non-existent.

There is no gun show loophole when it comes to background checks for gun purchases. The law clearly states that if you purchase a firearm from a person with an FFL, a background check must occur. If you purchase a gun from a private seller, you don’t need a background check. These same two principles apply whether you’re at a gun show or not.

So if you purchase a firearm from a gun seller with an FFL at a gun show, you will need to complete Form 4473 and have a background check. Under federal law, if you purchase a gun from a private seller at a gun show, you don’t need to have a background check. Your state laws may differ.

In a report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only 0.7 percent of convicted criminals purchased their firearms at gun shows.

Of the average 4,000 gun shows in the U.S. each year, it’s estimated that 50 to 75 percent of vendors have an FFL, and therefore require purchasers of firearms to complete background checks. But that doesn’t mean that 25 to 50 percent of vendors are private sellers of firearms—many of these are vendors that sell gun paraphernalia. Gun shows are filled with vendors who sell everything from t-shirts and ball caps to holsters and concealed carry gear, and it’s these sellers that make up the majority of the remaining non-licensed vendors.

Are there private gun sellers at gun shows? Absolutely. But the idea that criminals are flocking to gun shows to illegally purchase firearms is untrue. In a report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only 0.7 percent of convicted criminals purchased their firearms at gun shows.

– Foundation for Economic Education in The History of Gun Background Checks

comments

  1. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

    Like they say..if you repeat a lie often enough…people will believe it…

    1. avatar Knute(ken) says:

      But that only works on sheeple. If you repeat a lie often enough, the sheeple will believe it, because sheep will believe anything. Sheeple brains are only large enough to hold a couple of thoughts; “When do we eat?”, and “When do I get to mate?”. When food and sex are the only two thoughts inside of their heads, the distracted sheep believe whatever ridiculous weather balloon/venus/swamp gas, story they get spoon fed.
      But not people. Thinking beings sort truth from lies, using facts and evidence. These ones aren’t so easy to fool.

      1. avatar Baffle says:

        POTG do a disservice by arguing the semantics of a “loophole.” I use the so-called loophole all the time and for the very reason to avoid paperwork. So yes there is a real thing but it’s not technically a loophole.

        1. avatar Someone says:

          If there is no law forbidding something I don’t approve of, is it a loophole?

          The way I understand it is that there is no federal law compelling citizen who BUYS a gun to undertake a BC. There is however a law that prescribes that federally licensed dealers have to run BC before they can SELL a gun. Therefore if you buy from someone who is not a FFL dealer, there is no legal reason to run a BC. Location of the transaction (wheater in gun show or anywhere else) makes no difference.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Correct, but you need to add that there is no reason for the BC anyway, since once it is complete the gun will still fire, absolutely nothing has been accomplished, why are we still doing it at all?

        3. avatar Sailorcurt says:

          I disagree. The anti-gunners constantly attempt to control the narrative by using misleading terms to describe their position.

          They use the term “loophole” intentionally to imply that there is a flaw in the law.

          The law operates as designed…i.e. a private citizen should never have to beg permission from the government before selling their private property to another private citizen. Freedom is not a loophole.

          Therefore, the term “loophole” is not just a matter of semantics, it is a matter of the other side attempting to intentionally mislead people as to the current state of the law in order to gain support they would not garner if they were truthful.

          POTG should ALWAYS point out when the other side uses duplicitous tactics to push their agenda (which is pretty much the only game-plan they have).

      2. avatar Michael says:

        Yes, DA Bern was in LAs Vegas, NV the Sheep clapped for free stuff and want Slavery to come WOW America is and will be Mystery Babylon!

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      recall a recent poll of convicts…when asked if any of them had acquired a firearm at a gun show it was met with universal laughter…straw purchasing topped the list…followed by the black market in stolen guns…gun shows are full of firearms buffs who frequently buy and sell among themselves….

  2. avatar Shire-man says:

    Like using the drug show loophole to get medicinal meth without a prescription. No doctors, no pharmacists no checks.

    1. avatar Mason says:

      That was funny! I need to remember that one.

  3. avatar Political gristle says:

    The term “gun show loophole” is a misnomer, that is applied to privately owned and sold firearms.

    1. avatar Ragnar says:

      That’s just a Truth Loophole.

  4. avatar Dude says:

    They want to do anything to hurt the firearm industry, and that includes ending gun shows. Nuance is not in their vocabulary. To be fair, some people go to these shows to find a firearm purchase without a background check. When I’m looking at guns at one of these shows, the vendor will usually say, unprompted, this will be a private transaction. The one firearm I actually purchased from a gun show did require a background check.

    1. avatar joefoam says:

      @Dude No legitimate vendor will risk the loss of their licence, the source of their income and the associated penalties to make one sale. Gonna have to call BS on that one. The sales floors are covered with plainclothes LEOs looking for anyone trying to make a ‘private’ sale to avoid a background check. ATF here in AZ was caught taking license plate numbers to record attendees. Signs are posted at parking areas warning potential sellers not to make transactions in the areas surrounding the venue. The ‘loophole’ if it exists at all is tiny.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        there are gun shows..and then there are gun shows…some have high security…some have none…have seen some outrageous things at some of them…if you want to do a private sale elsewhere all that’s required is a phone #…..

        1. avatar Cartman says:

          I could do a private sale when I lived in Indiana, but if I sold to a felon, I would go to jail. So I always made the buyer undergo a BC at a local dealer.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Cartman, That sounds like BS. How many people have gone to prison for such crime? I’m betting none, even if the law exists it’s unenforceable. By caving you do the grabbers’ job for them.

      2. avatar Dude says:

        Joefoam, I’m going to have to call BS on your BS call. I was there, so I know what I saw and heard. I suppose you don’t have to have an FFL to rent a booth at a gun show. There are all sorts of people there selling everything from ammo to WWII helmets to, yes, used guns. You don’t have to have an FFL to sell your gun, and you don’t need a background check for a private transaction in most jurisdictions. If someone with an FFL is selling to you, then you will get a background check whether you are buying a new or used firearm.

        1. avatar Michael says:

          The only reason for an FFL is the class of weapons you sell brand new from them and as (a private gun buyer to your favorite gun shop.)manufacturer or you represent the brand directly from the Manufacturer to you and TF to get it out of your name. Same principle as selling cars. I can get a Form from My CO Sheriff IN NYE County Still and sell,a handgun and Long guns privately but a gun show in NV, not any more.Gov SLeez Scat Demo-rat is a 1 termer who illegally without our voice in NV signed Abortion is legal in NV law Will hopefully be impeached. We got his Veto the illegal Popular Vote bill and hopefully, he will veto the Fake Bump Stock ban AB 291 too. If Not NV is a Domino effect, then Smoke and fire cometh!

  5. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    The only time I personally witnessed a private sale at a gun show at the seller’s insistence went through a dealer for a background check. I guess some of the politicians haven’t read the laws on gun sales or FFL requirements. FFL holders do not want to lose the licenses. It reminds me of Mad Max making an ass out of herself when questioning bankers about student loans which the feds took over a few years ago.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      on occasion have seen some guys working the gray areas…having a carload of guns but only displaying a few at their table…this “illegally engaging in the business” stuff usually gets unearthed sooner or later…. and gets them busted….

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        Yes, illegally dealing with out an FFL eventually leads to an arrest and conviction. But what about the hundreds of firearms sold by these actors without any background check before they were apprehended?

        We all know how it works, just stand around in the parking lot with a pocket full of C-notes and watch for people carrying in firearms. Simple question: “hey buddy, you want to sell that?” A quick cash transaction from trunk to trunk and you’re on your way!

        Call a loophole, call it the black market, call it what you will. I’ve bought AR15’s, high-capacity handguns, and ammo for cash, no questions asked, many times.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          How many crimes have you committed with them? The point is that THE LAW SHOULD BE REPEALED!!! BC accomplishes nothing whatsoever, what about the guns sold before the guy was caught and prosecuted? Exactly! WTF about them? Who cares? Everyone should be able to buy a gun, if you commit a crime against someone, you should go to jail if you survive.

  6. avatar MaddMaxx says:

    I have attended five gun shows in two states in the last three years and everyone I’ve gone to has had more uniformed cops and undercover ATF and FBI agents than vendors… EVERY transaction was accompanied by the federally required paperwork AND a background check… I was not offered any illicit “parking lot” deals although I probably look more like a criminal than most bona fide bad guys.. Anyone trying to sell this bullshit line about loopholes is actually FULL of what they are selling.

    1. avatar 16V says:

      Perhaps you live in CA, I can promise that is NOT the scene at every gun show I’ve seen at the last 50 gun shows I’ve attended. Every one has at least one FFL selling personal guns as a private transaction

      There is usually a cop at the door, and maybe one off duty in uniform shopping. That’s the limit off LEO intrusion.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      most of us have attended more than five gun shows…and in more than one state…most of us “regulars” are accustomed to just walking up…paying our entrance fee ..and going about our business…that is, until obama got elected…then the line extended around the corner!….that guy was “god’s gift” to the gun industry…

  7. avatar WI Patriot says:

    watts doesn’t know her ass from a loophole in the ground…

  8. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    The vast majority of people have no clue what gun laws are about.
    Nor do they care as it doesn’t affect their daily lives.
    Now if they hear a lie enough times on TV or in the news. The dumbass public believes it to be gospel.
    My dad is/was a perfect example.
    A WW2 veteran and I had to show him the difference between a semi auto and a bolt action rifle. VS a true machine gun.
    He honestly thought my AR15 was a machine gun.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      well, it certainly looks like one…a main selling point…..

  9. avatar Specialist38 says:

    I buy, sell, and trade guns all the time.

    I always make sure they are a resident of the same state and ask if there is any reason for them not to have this firearm.

    If I dont know them, i have them sign a bill of sale for each of us.

    A lot of folks I do business with are women and newbies. I guess because I have time to talk and explain things that big dealers will not take the time to do.

    1. avatar Michael says:

      If you Follow Infowars and are a Patriot You also might have a great way to educate too give a copy of our Constitution and make note of our 10 Bill of Rights and a copy of the Federalist papers too. During my youth on my America, I was taught One Nation Under God Prayer and US History in Grade School all the way into My last year of HS then on to My Service and Vietnam in 73 to 74.With CA as a Shithole run by Faggots Who call themselves Democrats is a joke. The money will buy anything these days especially to lie ( Bear Fake Witness to fake lie facts publicized with bribe money from Carpetbaggers like Bloomberg and George Soros.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      What few guns I have ever sold, probably 5-10 between 1965 and now, fella handed me money and I handed him the gun. Except the most recent, handed my M1A to my LGS on consignment, a year later he handed me a check.

  10. avatar Truckman says:

    I have been to gun shows in Ga. and Fl and have never seen or been offered a illegal sell especially by dealers and private sells are usually are trying to sell older and sometimes rare guns myself I just usually just end up buying bulk ammo

  11. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    We had a case in my state where a nut case bought two Swedish surplus military rifles in 6.5mm at two different gun shows with no paperwork. He used both when he cruised country roads and then killed people at random. When he was captured he also had a pistol with a silencer on it in .22 rim fire and everyone knows how quite those guns are if you ever fired one with a silencer especially with sub sonic ammo. This is just an example of how all those innocent people died because you can if you are nuts and prohibited from owning a firearm just go to a gun show and buy anything you want and all the ammo you can carry. And to be clear I do not recall where he got the pistol and silencer but he admitted to buying the rifles at a gun show with no paperwork, just cash and carry. By the way he later dumped one of the guns and guess where he sold it, at another gun show.

    Now lets take a look at an article from The Conversation.com.

    The guns carried and misused by youths, gang members and active criminals are more likely than not obtained by transactions that violate federal or state law.Unlike in the case of Enrique Marquez, it is rare for the people who provide these guns to the eventual shooters to face any legal consequences.

    How can this illicit market be policed more effectively?

    Undocumented and unregulated transactions

    When asked where and how they acquired their most recent firearm, about 60% of a cross-section of American gun owners reported buying it from a gun store, where the clerk would have conducted a background check and documented the transfer in a permanent record required by federal law. (The other 40% received it as a gift or acquired it in a private transaction that in most cases was legal.)

    But while a majority of owners obtain their guns in transactions that are documented and for the most part legal, the same is not true for criminals.

    The importance of the informal (undocumented) market in supplying criminals is suggested by the results of inmate surveys and data gleaned from guns confiscated by the police. A national survey of inmates of state prisons found that just 10% of youthful (age 18-40) male respondents who admitted to having a gun at the time of their arrest had obtained it from a gun store. The other 90% obtained them through a variety of off-the-book means: for example, as gifts or sharing arrangements with fellow gang members.

    Similarly, an ongoing study of how Chicago gang members get their guns has found that only a trivial percentage obtained them by direct purchase from a store. To the extent that gun dealers are implicated in supplying dangerous people, it is more so by accommodating straw purchasers and traffickers than in selling directly to customers they know to be disqualified.

    The supply chain of guns to crime

    While criminals typically do not buy their guns at a store, all but a tiny fraction of the guns in circulation in the United States are first sold at retail by a gun dealer – including the guns that eventually end up in the hands of criminals.

    That first retail sale was most likely legal, in that the clerk followed federal and state requirements for documentation, a background check and record-keeping. While there are scofflaw dealers who sometimes make under-the-counter deals, that is by no means the norm.

    NOW PAY ATTENTION TO THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH AS IT IS SPEAKING OF SECOND HAND GUNS PASSING THROUGH MANY, MANY HANDS WITHOUT PAPERWORK OVER AN 11 YEAR PERIOD.

    If a gun ends up in criminal use, it is usually after several more transactions. The average age of guns taken from Chicago gangs is over 11 years.

    The gun at that point has been diverted from legal commerce. In this respect, the supply chain for guns is similar to the supply chain for other products that have a large legal market but are subject to diversion.

    In the case of guns, diversion from licit possession and exchange can occur in a variety of ways: theft, purchase at a gun show by an interstate trafficker, private sales where no questions are asked, straw purchases by girlfriends and so forth.

    All in the family

    So how do gang members, violent criminals, underage youths and other dangerous people get their guns?

    A consistent answer emerges from the inmate surveys and from ethnographic studies. Whether guns that end up being used in crime are purchased, swapped, borrowed, shared or stolen, the most likely source is someone known to the offender, an acquaintance or family member. That Farook’s friend and neighbor was the source of two of his guns is quite typical, despite the unique circumstances otherwise.

    Also important are “street” sources, such as gang members and drug dealers, which may also entail a prior relationship. Thus, social networks are playing an important role in facilitating transactions, and an individual (such as a gang member) who tends to hang out with people who have guns will find it relatively easy to obtain one.

    Effective policing of the underground gun market could help to separate guns from everyday violent crime. Currently it is rare for those who provide guns to offenders to face any legal consequences, and changing that situation will require additional resources directed to a proactive enforcement directed at penetrating the social networks of gun offenders.

    Needless to say, that effort is not cheap or easy and requires that both the police and the courts have the necessary authority and give this sort of gun enforcement high priority.

    NOW PAY ATTENTION TO THIS LAST PARAGRAPH AS IT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS AND THAT IS THAT SECOND HAND SALES CONTRIBUTE TO MUCH OF THE ARMED CRIME THAT IS COMMITTED AND ONCE THE PUBLIC KNOWS THAT THEY WILL GO TO JAIL IF THEIR FORMERLY LEGALLY OWNED GUNS END UP IN A CRIME BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LEGALLY TRANSFER THEM THEN CRIME WITH GUNS WILL GO DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY BUT FOR THIS TO HAPPEN WE NEED TO PASS A LAW MAKING IT MANDATORY THAT ALL GUN PURCHASES ARE VETTED TO THE NEXT OWNER.

    It appears that the extraordinarily intense investigation of the San Bernardino shootings has succeeded in identifying the individual in Farook’s social network who provided him with the assault weapons. The fact that Enrique Marquez is likely to pay a price may help discourage such perverse neighborliness in the future.

    THE T TAG ARTICLE IN QUESTION IN REGARDS TO ONLY .7 OF GUNS USED BY CRIMINALS COMING FROM GUN SHOWS IS NOT ACCURATE BY A GOOD COUNTRY MILE.

    The problem stems from the fact that after an undocumented sale of a second hand gun leaves a gun show it indeed may be legal but then because it has no paperwork trail and then gets sold or traded off many times the criminal then will honestly say in the survey that “No I did not buy it at a gun show but from someone I knew” which would be correct. But the fact remains the gun originally could have come from an undocumented sale at a gun show.

    Its also a fact that people often supplement their income buy buying up guns at gun shows and then running them to cities or states with strict laws. Again those guns would probably never be traced back to their original sale at a gun show and the criminal would have no knowledge as to where his gun originally came from. In other words the criminal would not even know that the gun he bought was a stolen gun or a second hand gun that passed through many hands or came directly from a gun show.

    The real facts are that if you need a gun with no paperwork and need it fast its way quicker to go to the nearest gun show than trying to find one out on the street. Street sales run in spurts, they are either suddenly all over the place or you can not find one no matter how much money you have in your pocket. And ditto for under the table bar room sales of both legal and illegal guns.

    Now I am not implying that making all gun shows document sales is a panacea, because as long as you have private undocumented face to face sales that are legal the problem of any nut case or criminal getting guns will never be brought under any kind of sane control. European Countries began to get rid of this problem as far back as WWI.

    No gun should be legal without a vetted paper trail and although no law is 100 per cent fool proof the reduction of guns getting into criminals hands would be reduced substantially by mandating universal background checks, mandatory safe storage to cut down on criminals just walking into a home and taking them and gun show vetting of all firearms sold period.

    If you are not a criminal then there should be ZERO resistance to this proposal. The cockeyed back woods out house rectum gas that if you have an unregistered gun you could hang on to it if the particular weapon was outlawed is pure fantasy. Ex-friends, co-workers, ex-wives, hostile family members, having it stolen and then traced back to you by the criminals confession that stole it from you or just taking the gun out to shoot it would eventually result in your being caught with it, jailed, fined into bankruptcy, and then suffer loss of job and loss of future employment as a felon. In other words only a nut case that deserves to be jailed would hang on to an illegal weapon.

    Unfortunately for legal gun owners nothing has been done at the Federal Level and with an almost certain Democratic President in 2020 Lord help us all if both houses of Congress turn Democrat because you will have more of chance of hitting the lottery than not seeing new draconian gun bans and confiscations simply because we did nothing to stop the mass murder we now see on the news on a weekly and even daily level.

    The average American now does not own a gun and they are fed up with the carnage and everyday horror of mass murder directed against them and their families. Road rage, snipers on freeways, snipers at rock concerts, workplace and school shootings, its insanity on a scale that boggles the mind while the rest of the world realizes we have become a nation of uncaring, sick and mentally ill people. Its not rocket science and hiding your head in the sand and babbling moronic imbecilic bronze age mystic phrases like ” thoughts and prayers” will not cut it anymore after 2020 because its going to be the day of reckoning because we sat back and did nothing when we could have acted fast and done something. But its not the Conservative way, once you have shit in the out house you never want to make a change to inside toilets”. In 2020 we will deserve what we get.

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      And the nut bucket that killed those people in VA. Looks like they were legal.

      And the nut bucket in Las Vegas…..legal.

      And a gun bought and sold at a gun show which is later stolen and sold again is not an indication of a problem with gun shows.

      Kind of like alcohol. The main reason the government wants to control how and who sells it…..is to collect revenue.

    2. avatar Broke_It says:

      When I see comments exceeding the length of the article it’s a dead giveaway the person making them has nothing of substance to say. “If you’re innocent you have nothing to fear” doesn’t work for me comrade.

    3. avatar joefoam says:

      OK, lets accept your premise that the loophole exists. What good does it do to know where the gun came from after it has been used in a crime when the gun resurfaces after changing hands many times? Are you going to try and trace it back to the original purchaser and place the blame on them for the crime committed with that gun? And that will change nothing, the crime is already done. Private sales between private individuals will continue forever with every item that can be sold, not just guns. Are you really suggesting that some set of laws will control the black market which is dominated by law breakers?

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “Private sales between private individuals will continue forever with every item that can be sold, not just guns. Are you really suggesting that some set of laws will control the black market which is dominated by law breakers?”

        History has already proven you very wrong the amount of private sales could be cut to probably less than 1 or 2 per cent because no one wants to go to jail and be fined and lose their job. Using the moronic Conservative chants that since no law is 100 per cent effect we should have no laws makes about as much sense as saying the same thing for abolishing laws against rape or murder because they are not 100 per cent effective either but only a nut case would suggest we rescind them.

        1. avatar Specialist38 says:

          Absolutely.!
          Just like the reduction in selling legal prescription drugs to people that dont have a prescription.

          Man! Nobody want to arrested/fined/fussed at, so that problem is almost non-existent these days.

          Right 😜

        2. avatar 16V says:

          Prohibition has been successful precisely *zero* times in our Nation’s history.

          From alcohol, to drugs, “laws” and “rules” have stopped no one who is even slightly motivated. Ever.

          Bad people are bad people, nothing more, nothing less. Make it difficult to get their chosen tool. they will simply get one another way to either obtain said tool. Or they will switch tools. We made it harder to steal cars, carjackings went up.

        3. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          to 16v
          “Prohibition has been successful precisely *zero* times in our Nation’s history.”

          Like most of the out house gang its too easy to make a fool of you. Studies proved that Prohibition did indeed work. Remember it was done to cut down on hard liquor consumption which it did even with illegal boot leg liquor available. Even the illegal liquor became so expensive the average booze hound then was forced to buy beer. Studies then did show through law enforcement and other legal records that domestic violence went down, assault cases went down and contrary to popular belief from the gangster movies the murder rate for civilians went down, divorce rates went down, and women applying for assistance because of abandonment went down as well and divorces went down.

          Prohibition only ended do to the blind greed and immorality of public officials that saw their pool of tax cash dwindle because of lower sales of alcohol which even then was higher on hard liquor than beer. Money and blind greed ended prohibition not the fact that if failed because it did not fail as it accomplished exactly what the law intended it to do i.e. cut down on consumption of hard liquor.

          Prohibition of private gun sales would cut down tremendously on the pool of guns available to every nut case and criminal who would want one coupled of course with safe storage laws and draconian penalties for violating both new laws. History has already proved they work as most industrialized nations adopted both laws decades and decades ago. But then again those countries are not run by a bunch of paid off Prostitutes of the NRA i.e. the Gangster Criminal Bigoted and Racist Republicans.

          If the Dems take over both houses as well as the Presidency that is the least that will be past and probably within 48 hours of the new Congress. Since we refused to do that when we could have under the Republicans the really severe laws will come soon after. And of course the corrupt Supreme Court will as usual will refuse to hear any of the cases that will be put forth because both Liberal and Conservative Judges lust for absolute power over the people because it guarantees them jobs for life.

          And even if the Court screws up and hears any of the cases according to the prior Heller decision from our back stabbing judge Scalia, he stated that “2A rights are not unlimited” which is double speak for “2A is not a right at all and we can ban anything we please”.

        4. avatar LarryinTX says:

          History shows that, does it? I guess you must have written that history book, because nobody else has seen it. If you missed that, I’m calling you a liar. And just in your previous post, almost directly above, you go on and on and on about criminals killing millions of innocents with firearms obtained through private sales, black market, and so forth, which you now claim are insignificant. Your vast quantities of lies are conspiring to confuse your little mind. Don’t you have some Algebra homework you need to work on?

    4. avatar Someone says:

      I have one for you too.
      Where I’m from there was a case of a guy who went and bought himself a 3.5L V6 car. No background check, no waiting period. He did register it though. Then he drove his loopholy gotten car at ridiculous speed and then he swerved into oncoming traffic, hitting a bus full of people. He also had a motorcycle in garage at home, with an aftermarket muffler. I don’t know wher he got the bike, but it was real quiet one.
      If we just have done something, closed the driveway loophole, all the people he killed in the bus might have still live.
      Makes about as much sense as your story, but is much shorter!

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I bet that car was fully automatic, too, right?

    5. avatar frank speak says:

      perhaps you should have clarified by saying “the average American… [who lives in an urban area]… does not own a gun”…although that is changing…it has certainly never been the case in rural areas….and the suburbs are somewhere in-between…

    6. avatar jwm says:

      2020? vlad, I’ve told you before and thankfully you’re just too effing stupid for it to sink in. You and guys like you made it possible for Trump to take the white house from hillary. You bear damn near 100% of the credit/blame for The Donald being president.

      Thank you and keep up the good work. I tell you this straight up knowing that you do not have the iq points to get a clue and change.

      Thanks to you Trump will load the fed courts with conservative justices.

    7. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Vlad, you were finished after one paragraph, the other 3 hours were wasted and nobody read them. Because you were exactly correct right away! All the gun control laws on the planet are completely useless in stopping crime, because criminals do not obey laws! You insist on proving it over and over, when everybody already knows it, apparently except you! We need to drop all gun control laws and begin the effort to arm everybody who is not in prison. THAT will decrease crime.

      1. avatar MaddMaxx says:

        Between me and Vlad we apparently know everything there is to know about everything there is to know about.. Vlad appears to be an all knowing know it all with one exception… Vlad does not realize that it is a complete idiot and I (as well as anyone else whom has had any contact with it) know that.. Thanks Vlad, keep on entertaining..

    8. avatar Ron says:

      What a load of unmitigated crap.

      I dont need government permission to sell my personal property, ever. Cars kill and injure more people every year than guns do, and I can sell my 68 Mustang to anyone I want, when I want, and how I want. Same with my washing machine, my shoes, and my hair, no “paper trail” needed or wanted. Government does not need this kind of intrusion into our lives for ANY purpose.

      As a reasonable and responsible adult, when I sell a gun, I check for a purchase permit or CHP, but in no way am I required to check these things, as long as I am not knowingly selling to a prohibited person. Nor should I be. I dont need government looking over my shoulder making sure that I am being reasonable and responsible, I already know how. Government has a very poor record in this area, far worse than I do. Government “oversight” historically is far and away more of a hindrance to public safety than it is a help. And these types of laws are never, NEVER, about safety, but about control.

  12. avatar Ing says:

    I prefer to call it the the Garage Sale Loophole. Or the Sell Your Own Car loophole. Or the personal freedom loophole. It’s the exact same thing.

    What it boils down to is the fact that the government (and/or a bunch of cryptofascist progressives) doesn’t like your freedom to sell that particular item — or even to have it at all.

  13. avatar Chris says:

    Why is she recycling a hoax that died about five years ago? Does this have something to do with Virginia Beach, suddenly she thinks people are going to listen to her because of the recent news?

  14. avatar Alan says:

    Who or what might it be that died, leaving this twit an authority?

    1. avatar D Y says:

      Common sense, honor, rational thought, honesty, integrity, personal responsibility.

      RIP

  15. avatar GEORGE BILL says:

    As a carry gun permit holder for 48 years, including NYC, There are no special rules that make it any easier to buy a gun from a gun show than else ware. Same paperwork and licenses. Another falacie

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      Gun shows bring together totally anonymous buyers and sellers, who are able to conduct cash transactions on the periphery of the gun show without any regulations or restrictions.
      Call it a loophole or you could call it a black market, it still allows felons and other prohibited persons to buy guns anonymously for cash.

      1. avatar 16V says:

        Because that transaction would never take place without a “gun show”.

        If only you could ban any type of unapproved social interaction, then maybe the regressive left will be happy…

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          to 16v

          “Because that transaction would never take place without a “gun show”.

          If only you could ban any type of unapproved social interaction, then maybe the regressive left will be happy”

          So according to the Far Right we should not have laws against murder or rape because no law is 100 per cent effective.

          The real facts are that vetting of all gun sales and safe storage laws would cut the pool of used guns out there down to a trickle and almost overnight if draconian penalties were enforced. Long jails sentences and huge fines are what terrifies the far right as money is their real god and to threaten them with a loss of just 1 penny would ensure compliance faster than their mangy cats could scratch their asses. Other countries have passed such laws decades ago and history proves they work and work very well. No law is 100 per cent effective but to do nothing means tomorrow morning we have another mass shooting or gangland shooting. Its not rocket science except to the far right unwashed.

        2. avatar Anymouse says:

          The point isn’t that the gun laws aren’t 100% effective. It’s that they’re almost 100% ineffective at reducing crime, and the law abiding gun owners bear the rhe expense or loss of liberty. Do background checks stop sales to felons? Yes. Are any charged for the crime of attempting to buy a gun? No. If they want a gun, are has this stopped them? No, because there are a ton of elicit methods. What’s the result? Legal gun owners, who will pass their background check, get to pay $10-25 extra that check, and maybe more for a permit to buy in the first place.
          There’s a saying that “it’s easier to raise the bridge than lower the river.” With these laws, they’re painting the bridge sky blue and charging the law abiding gun owner for the paint.

      2. avatar jwm says:

        Miner. You and vlad and guys like you made a Trump white house possible. Thank you. And you guys will give him a win in 2020. All those fed judges that he appoints will be because of you.

        It should thrill you to know what a part you’ve played in this historic event.

      3. avatar MaddMaxx says:

        Call it a loophole or you could call it a black market, it still allows felons and other prohibited persons to buy guns anonymously for cash.
        So does the “Pennysaver”. As long as a particular state does not require a background check for a private sale it is not a “loophole” or “black market” sale it is simply a private transaction of goods for cash or trade.. Only 12 states require background checks for all transactions involving private sellers at gun shows and 6 that require checks for handguns only. The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 defines a private seller as anyone who does not engage in the sale of firearms as a primary source of income…

      4. avatar LarryinTX says:

        And exactly *why* is individuals buying guns “anonymously and for cash” a problem in any way? I’ve bought guns without background checks for about 30 years, then with background checks for around 30 years, and I have NEVER understood why people seem to think the BC accomplishes anything. The idea supposedly was that criminals would not be able to obtain guns. Have we noticed any criminals who have difficulty obtaining guns in the PAST 30 FREAKING YEARS? The system spends our money, infringes on our rights, gets in our way, and accomplishes nothing otherwise, why does it still exist?

  16. avatar Silence DoGood says:

    “…the gun show loophole is virtually non-existent….”

    WRONG! It is non-existent, Period, Full Stop.

    In reality, arguing in favor of the existence of a gun show loophole is arguing against the 1st Amendment’s “right of the people peaceably to assemble.” Because the only thing that a gun show offers to non-FFLs looking to engage in lawful commerce with their lawfully-owned firearms is a time and a place to assemble.

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