“Stand Your Ground laws, which upend centuries of common law on self-defense and allow people to carry guns outside of the home…are increasing numbers of justifiable and unjustifiable homicides,” says Allison Anderman of the Giffords Law Center. https://t.co/KInxWHwCkT pic.twitter.com/qr2869r0uG
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) April 23, 2023
Nonetheless, [a Florida wrong-house shooting], along with a spate of recent shootings across the country which victimized Americans who approached property owners by mistake or for an otherwise innocent reason, did not only vividly illustrate how the US is flooded with guns. It all also showed how people who are made paranoid by the nation’s bitter political climate believe they can use guns with impunity thanks to firearms laws and self-defense statutes that in many states are remarkably permissive, according to experts who spoke with the Guardian this week.
“A lot of people who shouldn’t have guns, who don’t need them, who don’t know how to use them safely … are fearful and trigger happy,” said the president of Global Action on Gun Violence, Jonathan Lowy. “And it’s inevitable that that will lead to tragedies like we’re seeing.”
In a speech on the legislative floor, the Democratic Connecticut US senator Chris Murphy added: “Gun murders are now just the way in which we work out our frustrations. This is a dystopia … that we’ve chosen for ourselves.”
A Harvard University study from 2016 found “there is no good evidence” that using a firearm in purported self-defense reduces the likelihood of injury.
The study’s author, David Hemenway, found some evidence that having a gun for such a purpose may reduce the likelihood of property loss. “But the evidence is equally compelling that having another weapon, such as [pepper spray] or a baseball bat, will also reduce the likelihood of property loss,” Hemenway has said.
Nonetheless, US gun manufacturers have been able to sell their products briskly – some experts estimate there are more than 400m firearms circulating across the country, whose population is about 332 million. Experts say gun manufacturers have done that by collectively convincing buyers that having a firearm is both a constitutional right as well as an effective tool to help them ward off potential danger, playing up the worst-case scenarios that few people are statistically likely to experience but which receive disproportionate attention from media outlets and political partisans.
“The narrative that has been pushed by the gun industry and many politicians [is] that a person needs to be armed at all times everywhere or else they are going to get murdered by the boogeyman,” said Allison Anderman, the Giffords Law Center’s senior counsel and director of local policy.
— Ramon Antonio Vargas in ‘Fearful and Trigger Happy’: Flooded With Guns and Paranoia, the US Reels From Shootings
People are angry and getting angrier. Been going on for 30 years or so.
Maybe deal with that instead of just trying (you’ll fail by the way) to take away one of an infinite number of weapons?
Dealing with it would necessitate the mass switching off of screens so nobody is going to advocate for it. Angry and scared people get more screentime and more screentime sees more ads and if you see more ads you’ll consume more products.
Don’t ask questions, just consume product and get excited for new product.
lol, the cartel speaketh…
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Yes you are!
We should call the cabal of anti-gun organizations the Conspiracy of Death because they are consumed with it.
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“Up to” and “from” are contradictory when referring to numbers. “Colossal entirety” isn’t helping your act, either. Find a better language translation tool, champ.
Dealing with it would necessitate actually standing up for what we believe, and for what is fact and reality. Conservatives, by nature, are far less confrontational than the radical left. What we fail to acknowledge is that they have declared war, and if we don’t start pushing back, we will become extinct.
Your damn right I’m angry. I love this country and what it represents. In my now 63 years I have watched the left systematically undermine all I hold dear and I feel powerless to do anything about it. I honestly believe our founding fathers would be in tears to see what they have done and continue to do.
We may well be that generation and if it comes to pass that we are. Then we have failed in our duty as free men and woman. As well as failing our children and their children. For once Freedom is lost it is rarely if ever regained.
So…the narrative is that the average American is too scared to responsibly use guns?
Anyone remember the hunt for Michael Dorner and how many innocent people were shot at (and how many bullets went flying down residential streets) because LEOs were “scared for their lives” and irresponsibly shot at anything they thought *might* be the person they were hunting, instead of responsibly verifying before pulling their triggers?
You mean Christopher Jordan Dorner,
not Michael Dorner.
Oops. Yup, Christopher Dorner. I had just been reading something else containing the name “Michael” when I opened this page, and the name was still on my mind apparently.
But you get the point. What has always flummoxed me was the volley of 100+ bullets the cops sent down a residential street at a truck with two female occupants that didn’t match the description of the vehicle on the BOLO, and was driving away from them, and how those LEOs were never held accountable for wounding the innocent driver. The public statement made was that the LEOs “feared for their lives due to the adrenaline”, so they were deemed justified in shooting at innocent people in a residential area who never posed any threat. If you or I had done the same, we’d still be eating bologna and mashed potatoes in prison today.
there’s that N-word again…(NEED)…..
It all also showed how people who are made paranoid by the nation’s bitter political climate believe they can use guns with impunity thanks to firearms laws and self-defense statutes that in many states are remarkably permissive, according to experts who spoke with the Guardian this week.
And yet, the OP never contemplates the thought that it is the very political climate the left promotes which has created the condition in the first place. I am white, therefore I am racist. I am male, therefore I am misogynistic. I am Christian, therefore I am a terrorist. I believe, as my thrice oath of office required, in the Constitution, therefore I am a MAGA gun loving nut. The Democrat party has officially declared war on me, and I’m supposed to just shut up and sit down.
None of this justifies these avoidable shootings, but again to blame access to guns for just about everything is, to put it nicely, ignorant.
Well said Gman.
The Giffords also believe you should just sit there (while sitting down and shutting up) and willingly get shot because to them, you are not “allowed” to defend yourself. As you are no doubt well aware of. Never mind Gabby Giffords hypocrite husband going out and buying weapons after his wife was shot…
What this country is awash with is illegal aliens, drug addicted lunatics, and people that are convinced that they are targets based purely on their race. All of which are pushed by the left to create a society filled with tension, anger, fear, and narcissism.
There absolutely is a problem here. But it’s coming from the craziness of the left.
Put criminals behind bars and keep them there. Get control of the border. Make Washington accountable. Stop Bidens war on energy.
And the left wants you to adopt their “Shining Path” to ut0pia. Which be the “Road of Bones” made by the victims of the rev0lution.
based on their actions…a tiny minority seem to lack a basic understanding of the law and how it functions…pointing a gun is one thing…[remember a buddy of mine doing just that when some miscreants came to his door…even one of our new US senators was accused of doing it]…but quite another thing to actually shoot somebody….
shhh…its a secret…dont tell anybody…
the “gun violence problem” in america
is almost completely attributable
to the “blue city/blue state governance model” problem in america
Cultural mutual combat by some demographics.
They learned a form of dueling culture from their former masters.
Mutual combat? Tell that to a robbery victim in Philadelphia, a carjacking victim in DC, or an elderly Asian thrown onto the subway tracks in NYC.
Criminals have to crime.
“shop as usual.”
The real POINT of all this “awareness” propaganda is the total disarmament of the American people in spite of the Constitutional statement that “..The Right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”. They don’t recognise what “RIGHT”, “PEOPLE” and “Shall NOT BE INFRINGED” mean. It means that our possession of weapons is protected by the highest law of the land and no one can take that away without breaking the social contract between government and the People. When that Contract is abrogated, then government loses it’s “right” to rule, it’s legal justification to hold power, to govern.
So, don’t be mislead or fooled by the anti-Constitutional weasel-words of those who, however sweetly and reasoned, insist we must give up our arms “for the common good”…
If they want to take our guns LEGALLY, then they must change or delete the Second Amendment.
That’s the plan.
And besides what good is the constitution when no one in power abides by it?
The whole system is corrupt, from the city mayor all the way up to the president.
or just undermine it…[the 2A]…until it becomes meaningless….
Even if the 2nd amendment didn’t exist all people would still have the GOD given right to self defense (posses and bear arms). The second amendment does NOT give us the right to posses and bear arms, it guarantees this right can’t be infringed upon.
Come and convince me that I’m scared of the boogeyman… I just want a level playing field when the boogeyman selects me as it’s target… The bigger problem is that clowns like this moron keep raising the fear level of anyone who actually takes him seriously…
The left lives in their own fantasy world of rainbows and unicorn farts. They convince themselves that evil doesn’t really exist, that it will never visit them, except of course for their created evil doers like Trump. They cannot and will not ever accept reality. Bruen and Dobbs are the result of a Trump created activist SC and not simply a just and proper application of Constitutional law. All that contradicts their fantasyland must be wrong and therefor destroyed. How are we to deal with that delusional mentality?
Give them free government dope in exchange for their voter registration card.
Let the sober rule.
“ A lot of people who shouldn’t have guns, who don’t need them, who don’t know how to use them safely … are fearful and trigger happy,”
How does he surmise to know that? Doesn’t sound very scientific.
aq…if you were going to hang around you should have said…Over.
Im working on it Debbie, im workin on it
It seems to me that in a number of the “wrong person, wrong house” police shootings, so are the police. They see a gun, or what they believe to be a gun, even if the “suspect” is legally permitted to have a gun (i.e., in one’s own home), they shoot first and ask questions later.
answer that door…preferably after calling 911…with your gun behind you and out of sight…or just don’t answer it at all….
Yet …. not a word on the ongoing slaughter of blacks by blacks in the nation’s blue cities. Not one word.
THIS, absolutely this! It’s like they’ve secretly written off the black community and the leftoids are just trying to profit as much as they can off of them. Disgusting
People have called me a racist for the comments I’ve made here. At least I don’t exploit them, like Democrats do.
It’s not just the blacks they have written off and are seeking to exploit for profit.
Instead of harvesting cotton they are harvesting votes instead.
Preach, just keep em miserable and dependent and the Dem machine will just keep humming along
they have no answer for black on black crime because they continue to rule out incarceration
If ANYONE is acting with impunity, it’s the left. The Clintons, Bidens, Obama, Pelosi, Gore, and others do whatever they like regardless of how illegal it is without ever paying for it. They are all being protected.
They really believe that if they keep repeating the LIE that the Right to own and carry firearms is not a Individual right that people will eventually begin to believe it.
Stay frosty, stay strapped, and stay dangerous.
As a senior, I am more concerned about crime and being able to protect my wife and self, that’s why I own a gun. What I am afraid of is malicious prosecution by law enforcement at the request of the federal government, like the Autokeycard case. That scares the $hit out of me, because it reminds me of Ruby Ridge and Waco, when the government when ape-$hit for no reason.
Give them free (!) government dope in exchange for their voter registration card.
Let the sober rule.
“Voter registration card”???? What dat?? Sounds RAYCISSSS to me!
Dead people have the right to vote, amirite? Several times, if there are mail-in ballots available.
When everyone is made to be a felon. It’s a plan.
I suppose when the next big war breaks out it will be permissible to draft felons.
65,000 down on recruitments and counting.
Look how well Wagner Group is doing in Ukraine. Disposable cannon fodder.
65,000 down on recruitments and counting.
Hmmmmmm… The “Dirty 5,416 Dozen”?…
well,..Putin’s using convicts….
Nasty nice Gun Control zealots never cease trying to convince people to believe in Gun Control. And when enough people believe they’ll adorn themselves in swastikas and sheets and go door to door confiscating firearms…History eventually repeats itself when the History of Gun Control is under the carpet, out of sight and out of mind.
For the most part people who criminally misuse firearms, bricks, bats, knives, fists, feet, vehicles, etc. are Criminals. And if you want to lend a huge helping hand to Criminals all one has to do is fall for Gun Control.
GIVE IT A FREAKIN’ REST, PLEASE!!!
We’ve all read your cut ‘n paste rant so man times we can all post it . . . with better grammar and sentence structure than you appear to be capable of. We all KNOW the history of gun control, and we hate it for that reason and MANY others. If you really think this lesson needs to be repeated to this group, you are dumb as dirt.
Frankly, you are an embarrassment to the pro-2A crowd, with your idiot repetition of the most obvious things. Get a new schtick, or STFU.
We’ve all read your cut ‘n paste rant so man times we can all post it . .
OR, You could just ignore it as most probably do… No one tells you to STFU when you start rambling so who gave you authority over Debbie… With REAL assholes running “copy/paste” operations daily you should be directing your derision toward them, you must have missed “Minervas” latest rant on slavery…
Feel free to tell me to STFU; that’s what the First Amendment is all about. I probably ramble, but at least I don’t sing the same song, OVER AND OVER again. THAT’S the part I object to (and that is almost never on topic for the post she’s commenting on), not the content. And even you have to admit her grammar and sentence structure are grade school, at best. OF COURSE she’s welcome to post whatever she wants – even to jump in at the top of a totally unrelated thread – and I am welcome to tell her to STFU. I’m getting tired of her “jump in line and repost my standard rant, whether it’s relevant or not”, just as much as I’m tired of MajorLiar’s lies. Sorry it tweaks your beak, but I really don’t care. She needs to find a new dead horse to beat.
She needs to find a new dead horse to beat.
Sounds like you are just the man for the job, go get em killer…
You know I normally like your comments, and I wasn’t intending to pick a fight with you, but . . . I tried, MANY times, to gently suggest to Debbie that she give it a rest, and focus on other issues, that we all haven’t heard A MILLION TIMES, but she wasn’t having it. If you don’t like my comments, don’t read them. Or give me s***, I don’t care. She’s gotten to the point that she bores the crap out of me. I ignored dacian and MajorLiar for a long time, and they didn’t go away. Debbie has the right to post her boring, repetitive nonsense; I have the right to tell her she’s boring and repetitive. Capisce?
Oh, and by the way, MAXX, if you’ve been following the comment threads, I am FAR from the only person around here who is getting tired of Debbie ENDLESSLY posting basically the same boring, poorly-written comment EVERY DAMN THREAD, whether it has anything to do with the subject, or not. It isn’t like she’s raising anything new, relevant, or interesting. On the FEW occasions that she ventures off the boilerplate rant, she sometimes has interesting things to say. I’m not trying to tell her not to post, I’m just trying to get her to stop being a “one-trick pony”. I’d be happy to read her comments on other issues . . . or maybe not. If you read her comments on the recent gun-cleaning thread, she basically told everyone if they didn’t do it her way, they were stupid and careless. I’m pretty sure I’ve been shooting and cleaning guns at least as long as she has. My methods may not work for her, and that’s fine, but I’m not interested in having her tell me I don’t know how to maintain my guns, and I’m stupid for not doing it her way.
Sorry, not sorry.
Yeah, I’ve noted other complaints, in fact a couple of them basically only post to bitch about her… I just expected better of you, my bad… Must have missed the gun cleaning episode, don’t need anyone to tell me how to clean a firearm the Marine Corps took care of that one…
Anti-gun politicians like Barack Obama and Joe Biden, and the anti-gun MSM are the best gun salesmen ever. Every time they talk about more gun control, people go out and buy guns. Seeing un-controlled riots in the city and Defund the Police means that we are own first responders, thanks to the anti-gunners. Blue cities are hemorrhaging their best and most experienced officers to an early retirement. Gun companies don’t need advertising. They cannot keep up with demand.
just because they make a lot of guns means nothing…there has to be an existing demand for it to be profitable…it’s the dems and their policies and actions that have provided the motivation
“Experts say gun manufacturers have done that by collectively convincing buyers that having a firearm is both a constitutional right as well as an effective tool to help them ward off potential danger”
No, the media and those seeking power by being pro-crime / pro-chaos have been the driving force in gun sales. The need is real, and also happens to be constitutionally protected.
I swear, some of the antis would knock more holes in a sinking boat in the hope the water would drain OUT!
No, they want you in the water. When they claim the water will drain out, that is just part of how they get it done.
This is proven by the way they punch more holes when they see the boat filling.
Note that Far Left Pr0gressive True Believers promote any message which they think will move them closer to their objectives. Thus, they do not necessarily believe what they say. And they know that their supporters do not always believe what they say. Believing what they say is not important. What is important to them is that their messaging somehow resonates with the masses and garners support.
Pro-tip: never EVER forget that a significant percentage of the population (on the order of 40%) will accept and support what they know to be false IF THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE “TRIBE”. Saying it another way, group cohesion and being an integral member of the group is a higher priority than truth to that significant percentage of the population.
Experts say gun manufacturers have done that by collectively convincing buyers that having a firearm is both a constitutional right as well as an effective tool to help them ward off potential danger
Funny thing, I’ve been around for nearly 3/4 of a century and I have NEVER seen an add that attempted to “SCARE” me into believing that I “must have” their gun to defend myself, don’t recall any using the 2nd Amendment argument either (but that would be correct and acceptable)… Most adds I’ve seen espouse the quality and reliability of a particular firearm or it’s effectiveness as a hunting tool…
“Experts say gun manufacturers have done that…” (increased the number of firearms purchased for self-protection)
Some experts…. The average American knows the “paranoia” has been caused by woke blue cities, state and federal policies which coddle violent criminals, empty prisons, allow an invasion at our borders and blame the general public for the inevitable results. Probably the only real surprise here is that those millions of “new” firearms have not yet been turned against the governing agencies that have led the United States to this point.
It ain’t paranoia if it’s T R U E! SEE:BLM riots,anti fools idiocy,general lawlessness & Dim gat bans. The Leftards hate you. And I live in Cook County,ILL annoy. Until we sell our home🙄🙁
The answer is simple the Democrats are using their failures and intentional increases in violence to justify people not owning guns. When you open your borders and do not vet the people coming into your country, let criminals loose on the street, allow children to come into the country unattended by their parents, allow drugs to flow across the border, and make it harder for police to do their jobs, none of this is an accident it is intentional. Plain and simple the problems of today are caused intentionally by the Democrat politicians in this Country to enslave the American Public including the “useful idiots” who are helping them out and don’t realize when all is said and done they will be subjugated as well.
As has been said before: In the US, there are 120 million people who own 400 million guns and untold billions of rounds of ammunition – If we were the problem, you’d know.
silver lining moment:
now that we know
that democrats havent been right
or told the truth about anything
since orange man bad
came down the escalator in 2015
we can just read all this blather
and know with complete certainty
that none of it is fact or reality based
so we dont have to fact check it
or study up
or do our own research
in this busy world we live in
its a huge time saver
its pretty cool actually
Tyrants already tell us that “hate speech is violence”.
Next the tyrants will tell us that non land-owning women are not fit to vote.
It’s the bill of RIGHTS. Your rights are inherent in your humanity. You do not need to earn them.
very few women of any sort.
how to distinguish?
take no chances.
The left’s real problem with people having guns is that the citizens tend to be far better shots than not just the criminals but the police. So they tend to remove their pet criminals from the gene pool instead of being a good victim.
Current FBI data shows that legally armed citizens. Shoot and kill more criminals. Than are shot and killed by law enforcement.
One very big difference between the left and the right on the subject of guns:
The Left has no problem with guns, as long as they’re the only ones who have them.
The right has no problem with guns, we think everyone who wants one, should have one.
“Stand Your Ground laws…are increasing numbers of justifiable and unjustifiable homicides,” says Allison Anderman of the Giffords Law Center.”
I have no problem with an increased number of justifiable homicides.
This is a statement in the continuing attack on stand your ground laws that has been renewed by some recent unjustified shootings, none of which had anything to do with such laws. All stand your ground means is that you do not have a duty to retreat before employing deadly force when faced with an imminent threat of serious injury or death to oneself or others. This is bad why? All in all, it merely provides that the law of self defense is the same outside your home as it is within. Boo hoo.
Stand your ground laws allow people to carry guns outside the home?
Either the alleged smart people don’t know what they’re talking about, or they lie. The ignorance of stand your ground is so pervasive, I believe in this case it’s both.
It is not ignorance, it is intentional. Gun banners include shooting in justifiable self defense within the ambit of “gun violence,” and that therefore it must be prohibited.
Many gun owners are woefully benighted as to the. how and why of SYG. Some sit in jail as we speak.
I said it was ignorance AND intentional lying. It’s possible to be dumb about the law and also lie about it. I believe it is both because there are too many on our side who don’t understand stand your ground. It is probably the most misunderstood legal concept in self-defense law by everyone, when it should be the opposite.
The world’s most famous pacifist once opined “Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs…..It would have aroused the world and the people of Germany…. As it is they succumbed anyway in their millions.”
The world’s most tyrannical leader once opined “The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.”
Is the pacifist demanding the ultimate submission any less tyrannical? I say no, at least Stalin was honest.
Agreed. Learn the law, then buy a gun. Then learn it again, is my motto.
just because you have it…doesn’t mean you have to use it…in fact,it’s probably better if you don’t unless the situation requires it…..
Good times are on the horizon.
The Himalayan glaciers are melting.
Buy a ballbat you wont need a gunm.
Americans are getting fearful and paranoid because of the failures of the Democrats in Federal. state and municipal governance. Open borders, catch and release along with a lack of accountability for certain protected demographics. Leftist/Marxist ideology indoctrination from the schools. Extreme partisanship from the MSM. Little to no accountability for politicians. And a perception of persecution of what would be considered as mainstream morals and values.
But, somehow it’s the hardware that is the problem.
Those with criminal intent will always find a way of arming themselves or giving themselves an advantage over their potential or intended victims. Politicians and bureaucrats will always seek some way of gaining control and power over their subjects.
As the old bomber pilots used to say, “The flack is heaviest when you are over the target.”
When the Marxists and disarmament crowd squeal the loudest, you are doing the right thing.
The first four months of U.S. gun violence in 2023, as of #May1st:
•5,971 gun deaths
•11,035 gun injuries
•184 mass shootings
•290 children shot
•1,702 teenagers shot
•359 incidents of defensive gun use
•454 unintentional shootings
~7,986 suicides [CDC estimate]
That’s the number of American children (0-11) & teenagers (12-17) killed or injured by gunfire since 2014
Please continue. Detail a solution that is practical, effective and doesn’t penalize law-abiding citizens.
Ready, set — go!
Yet guns have never been less available or harder to get in America than 2023. Ditto dope.
Think about it. Argh! Sorry, forgot you can’t do that! My apologies.
Really, dude. It is like asking a blind man to play tennis. Just cruel.
I was tempted to ask, “Are you stupid???”, but the answer if obvious, and affirmative. Even to the extent there is ANY reality to those numbers (pro tip: There isn’t), focus on the definitions. The rest of us are smart enough to do both those things, so we know you are full of s***. Sell this lying crap somewhere else.
Bonus question, for extra points: What is the “accepted” definition of “mass shootings”, you lying s***weasel????
Experts say gun manufacturers have [played] up the worst-case scenarios that few people are statistically likely to experience.
Statistically, I’m unlikely to burn my house down, but I still have a fire alarm and home insurance. A firearm is insurance.
And NO ONE gets to decide how much risk I’m forced to assume.
Can someone please explain why the following two events which I experienced are “paranoia” or “hyperbole” and are somehow reasons to disarm the populace?
— Armed robber #1 ended his robbery attempt on me when he realized that I was armed.
— Armed robber #2 ended his robbery attempt on me when he realized that I was armed.
Sorry you were subjected to that, and I’m glad you came out on the winning side of those encounters. Thank God, while I have experienced one “street encounter”, I didn’t have a weapon to resort to, because I’d flown to my location. Fortunately, my girlfriend so unnerved the group of urban yoots confronting us by taking off her belt, wrapping it partly around her hand, swinging the buckle, and saying, “C’mon, you little bitches! Let’s party!”, that they turned tail and ran. I married her.
“I married her.”
Of course you did — otherwise she would have kicked your ass.
BT, DT, wore out the T-shirt …
typical garbage guardian and author used debunked anti-gun David hemmingway.
Can’t have it both ways, either we are killing each other with abandon, or it is a very rare occurrence.
Never happens in “civilized” European countries… 8 children killed in school shooting after 7th grade student opens fire on a group of elementary students in Belgrade Serbia… Used a handgun he took from his home…
Don’t give that crap about a baseball bat or pepper spray will work just as well. That argument falls on its face the minute the bad guy(s) pull a pistol. A gun is a superb tool for self defense and is part of my everyday just like my Leatherman, my watch, my wallet, and my keys. These opinions totally miss the point with millions of Americans owning firearms safely and responsibly which is a right that the government shall not infringe. You want to change it, start the arduous process for a constitutional amendment change and good luck with that (sarc). Otherwise, leave my firearms alone.
I simply refuse to sit and be lectured by people as Morally Bankrupt and Intellectually Dishonest/Ignorant demanding I surrender a Right older than history record.
Over 900,000 Abortions in 2020 (the last year of published data). No doubt a percentage of that number were medically necessary, but the overwhelming percentage were performed because it was inconvenient.
That’s the Real Number One Killer of Children in the US. Not Cars, Not Guns and Not any Diseases. Inconvenience.
Until you on the Left address that fact, STFU you Inficidal Monsters.
Way too many comments to wade thru…………….
One quick observation – does anyone have the raw data on how many innocent people have been killed by coppers executing (bad pun intended) search warrants at the wrong house and compare that to the shootings the antis cite?