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TTAG has been doing its level best to keep up with the post spree-killings gun control agitprop. The anti-gun pundits have unleashed a tsunami of mis- and disinformation (and plenty of diss information). All of it lacks logic. Some of it lacks coherence. Like this piece of pseudo-journalistic weirdness crafted by Carol Marin [above, center] at Chicago’s suntimes.comI tried to fire a TEC-9, but it took control starts with a mea culpa. “In 1989, I came close — we’ll never know how close — to shooting a producer and cameraman with a TEC-9 assault weapon.” I’m not saying anything about that. But I highly recommend you read on . ..

We were at a suburban gun range with a law-enforcement agent doing a story on how semiautomatic weapons can be illegally modified into automatic weapons, making them deadlier still.

The gun I was given to fire was a fully automatic TEC-9 pistol with a magazine of bullets. The target was straight ahead. My crew was far off to the right and safely — or so we all thought — out of the way.

But with one trigger pull, the weapon took control. My right arm jolted in an arc upward and to the right.

My crew, with lightning speed, dropped to the ground. The whole thing took just seconds.

I don’t think that proves what Ms. Marin thinks it proves. My takeaway: bad LEO! Bad! Also, who cares? How many members of Chicago’s criminal fraternity possess fully-automatic TEC-9s? Besides, didn’t that experiment prove that they suck?

Yes indeed; Ms. Marin underlines the point with a “these guns suck” quote from  ATF Agent Tom Ahern.

“I’ve been shooting for 32 years,” he said by phone Thursday. “If I fired a fully automatic TEC-9 one-handed, it could jump up or down, right or left . . . the gun could flutter . . . and you could dump a 50-round clip in under five seconds. It’s going to spray all over the place.” And holding it with both hands, he said, won’t significantly improve accuracy.

And now the best line in the whole piece followed by the kind of exposition that makes deadly earnest first grade debates so unintentionally humorous:

Why are we talking about this?

Because on the streets of Chicago, there are all kinds of guns — legal and illegal. And all kinds of people getting shot — intended victims plus people who end up as the collateral damage of a barrage of bullets.

Even legal, semiautomatic assault weapons aren’t precision instruments. Though each bullet fired requires a separate squeeze of the trigger (unlike fully automatic weapons), after the first round is fired, the trigger loosens for subsequent rounds. It still takes only seconds to dump a high-capacity magazine.

That’s what happened in the theater massacre in Aurora, Colo. That’s what happens out on our streets.

I don’t know about you, but that’s some primo gun control stuff right there: an argument for increased gun control because guns are inaccurate.

You’ve already seen Ms. Marin’s erstwhile coupe de grace: “assault weapons just spray death.” Her last line asserts “You’d think more politicians would want to talk about that.”

Unfortunately, the pols who don’t respect our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms are talking about “assault weapons,” even though they’re not saying anything. The pols who supposedly protect our constitutionally protected rights are curiously silent.

Given the gun grabbing inanity infecting the mediasphere you’d think our allies would speak up FOR gun rights. Then again, it is an election year . . .

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  1. She forgot to mention those evil barrel shrouds and the shoulder-things-that-go-up. Bad agitator! Bad!

  2. Hmmmmm. A woman trying to fire a fully auto submachine gun one handed…What LEO supervising her thought that was a good idea?

    • Srsly. I know one woman who may be able to keep it on target for half the shots, and she’s been shooting since she was a kid. I don’t know if I could even do that with one hand.

    • Idiots: Okay, we want this to look really dramatic and scary. How can we do that?

      LEO: Uh.. well, you could try and fire the thing one-handed, but I’ll be over here behind this metal door… And I’m still going to be on TV looking all awesome, right?

      Idiots: Right.

      • Consider that it was Chicago Le. Do you think that whole scenario was set up as a deliberate fail? If a demonstration is set up like this one was what do you think the motivation was? For an honest demonstration of the firearm? Not! It only demonstrated the Chicago LE’s stupidity or dishonesty. I would also wager Ms what’s her name, the “gunwoman” has put on some weight in 23 years meaning she had less body mass, making it even harder to control the Mac. when this ‘”prime example” for gun banning took place.And the incident is like 23 years old. And how many guns had she fired before one handing an full auto weapon? This is still more Kabuki Theater for the ignorant, frightened people who haven’t a clue about anything that goes bang, at least anything that goes bang above their waist. If anything should be regulated or outright banned it is misleading yellow journalism such as this.

  3. I can visualize those two women during their college years and imagine the ignorance and irrational thinking coming out of their mouths. Society would be safest and saner with them staying home baking cookies.

    • Its dead for now because it was attached to bill that was already known it would be voted down by both sides. It was election year grandstanding.

      Come back in 2013, it is sure to come again depending on who is in office.

      • No, that was the magazine ban, not the ammo ban. The ammo ban is it’s own standalone bill, but I’ve yet to hear a bill number for it or any updates.

        • It is currently pending before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary. I don’t speak lawyer but i don’t like that. I got that info from an email Lautenberg (or more likely a secretary of Lautenberg’s) sent me on November 16th.

  4. “…semiautomatic assault weapons aren’t precision instruments… after the first round is fired, the trigger loosens for subsequent rounds.”

    I’m still trying to parse this sentence. The last half sounds like a weird way of describing a DA/SA pistol, except the beginning makes it clear she’s talking about semiautomatic assault weapons. So it really is like the barrel shroud example. The first part has to do with guns, the second part has to do with guns, but not the same guns. I’m trying to think up a good example of combining unrelated things, but I have to leave. Apparently I have pay the dealer another $300 to change the spark plugs in my F350 diesel again. This is the third time this year.

    • Are you fvcking kidding me? I always thought that, by definition, diesel engines do not have spark plugs. Tell me this is a joke.

        • Haha, yeah. A combination of unrelated things and how that can provide an opportunity to take advantage of the ignorant.

          …blinker fluid and summer air in your tires.

      • He’s clearly joking, you can tell because he wrote that right after the journalist lady said something equally ignorant.

      • He’s clearly joking, you can tell because he wrote that right after the journalist lady said something equally foolish.

    • “after the first round is fired, the trigger loosens for subsequent rounds. ”

      I just want to know who is feeding her this stuff. She’s not creative enough to come up with it on her own. It reeks of some half-baked technical conversation that happened in the editing room where no one knew what they were talking about. I wonder who the know-nothing zilch was who gave her that info? No doubt some simpleton who fired a 92F ONCE in their life because they saw it in “Lethal Weapon” and is now convinced that all triggers MUST “loosen up” after firing the first shot.

      I am absolutely disgusted by the attempts of vapid drones to take away tools they do not understand, from a portion of the population they REFUSE to understand and hold in contempt simply by virtue of our rejection of their utopian nightmare.

    • Spark plugs in a Diesel? I certainly hope you mean glow-plugs, as a diesel engine needs no outside ignition system. (Just good heat and high compression are all that’s needed. Hence the glow-plugs are only needed when you first initially start a cold engine.)

      • I think it was meant as a dig toward the vapid airhead pictured above. Don’t worry; as you can see above, I missed it the first time too. 😉

  5. “Even legal, semiautomatic assault weapons aren’t precision instruments. Though each bullet fired requires a separate squeeze of the trigger (unlike fully automatic weapons), after the first round is fired, the trigger loosens for subsequent rounds.”


  6. “assault weapons just spray death”

    And gun grabbers spray stupidity… this is just another prime example of how incompetent/uneduacated the antigun crowd is…

    Woman, I wouldnt be proud to be talking about this incident to other people, it just shows how stupid you are and that you are not smart enough to operate anything more dangerous than electric drill

  7. The sad thing is that this woman’s experience with guns will serve as the only guidance millions of IL voters have on what its like to shoot a gun.Its not like an ordinary citizen in Chicago will ever know given the legal environment.

  8. the silence from pro gun pols may actually be a good thing. without their counter points to respond to the frenzy may die out sooner. like responding to mikeybnumbers, hmmmm, or matt, it devolves into a useless waste of time and energy to deal with the trolls. so long as those pols are blocking any new legislation they’re doing their job.

  9. So retarded…why do we let people like this on TV? The drivel they spew is just as bad as all of the sex, crime, murder, etc., that these very people tout is misleading and negatively influencing the youth of today.

  10. Alternate Headline: Journalists just spray stupidity. An article with an anecdote about how she sucks at something and that should be society’s benchmark is just more proof that the old media dinosaur is going extinct.

    Also, whats with this “clip” crap?

  11. Incredible! An LEO lets an untrained woman fire a full-auto weapon with one hand, while there is a group of people downrange.
    If this incident isn’t an outright lie, that LEO should be brought up on charges, rapidly followed by dismissal from the force.
    I suppose if it really did happen, none of the people who were fired upon would dare to make any kind of fuss about it.

  12. If the trigger loosens after it fires, that gun is broken. What the hell does that even mean?

  13. I believe the TEC-9 should be banned for being a heaping pile of crap. After that we’ll look at Hi-Point.

    • Why ban them for that? If they’re crap, the market will take care of it. With regard to Hi-Point, again, there’s clearly a market for them. Whether you approve of the lifestyle of those that buy them is irrelevant. As long as they’re legal, it’s none of your business. I don’t own a Hi-Point, but don’t they have a ridiculously good warranty? Cue comments of “they need it.”

      Hey, is there any way TTAG could get a Hi-Point and wring it out? I mean, I’d actually be interested in the results, because the only things I know about them are anecdotal.

      • They already did a review on a 9mm Hi-Point. I’ve met some people who own them and think they work well enough for home defense.

        There was a lady who bought one and was shooting it at my local gun range and was asking for some help since I was giving instruction to a female friend of mine. I didn’t actually shoot it, but I talked her through the general operation of a semi-auto pistol. The whole time I was thinking, “dang, that is one clunky gun.” I didn’t ask her why she bought it since the feeling I got was that it was all she could afford.

        • Yeah, I just poked YouTube and found this video. They did a pretty good job of abusing it, and it kept running. I could see the uses for it.

          Edit to add: I just found a Nutnfancy video titled “I Wish I Could Hate This” that I’m watching now. I’ll be back in a month or so when it’s over.

    • The Hi-Point guns work well. They are clunky, but I bought my brother a 9mm carbine and the damned thing works flawlessly. I tried my damndest to make the thing fail, but it didn’t. Poor people should be able to walk into a gun store and buy a cheap new firearm they can trust. Not everyone can afford a Glock or an AR-15. Most people can afford a Hi-Point.

      • I often use Hi-Point weapons as my throw -away guns. 100 rounds and you toss ’em, like the Yugo was for cars… 4 tickets and you junked it.

  14. My reply to Ms. Marin:

    Todd Vandermyde
    Carol – I just read your column about your experience at a range

    I will say that was a horseshit piece if I ever read one. Your experience at the range had nothing to do with the proposed legislation by Governor Quinn.

    You were firing a fully automatic TEC-9. What we call a machine pistol. A gun that is illegal under current Illinois law unless you are a law enforcement agency, federal agency or DoD. A gun tightly controlled under the National Firearms Act.Your column implies that the debate about the legislation is to outlaw machineguns and full autos, not so. As a matter of fact the Governor’s amendatory veto is written so broadly, that it would outlaw the sale of all new Glock handguns in the state of Illinois.

    It would outlaw a large number of hunting guns, Remington 11/87 shotguns used for deer hunting, Benelli shotguns used for turkey hunting, Ruger 10/22s used for squirrel hunting just to name a few.
    Currently, the national highpower rifle championships are taking place at Camp Perry in Ohio. The most common firearm used in the service rifle category is an AR-15.

    If your opinion is that semi-automatic firearms should be banned – you’re entitled to it. What you are not entitled to is the yellow journalism of trying to paint a bad range experience with an illegal firearm as the deadly weapons being talked about in the legislation. If you want to know why most gun owners and NRA members don’t trust the media, it’s because of columns like yours. Columns that play of the anti-gun extremists agenda that was set out years ago by Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center (VPC). Where he said:

    “Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons’ menacing looks, coupled with the public’s confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons.” -Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

    You’re guilty of the same thing.

    If anything, you should be blaming the less than professional instruction you had by some alleged professionals who thought it ok to put a machine pistol in the hands of an inexperienced person.
    Every month I try to shoot a little friendly completion. About 60 of us show up to shoot a practical rifle course, and yes we use those semi-auto that you and the Governor wants to ban. Matter of fact next month about 300 or more of us will get together for the annual Zombie shoot. And you guessed it, we will be using those so called “assault rifles”.

    If you really want to see what these guns are and how they really shoot and people use them, let me know and I’ll take you out to the range. The least you can do is to get the other side of the story, and some reasonably professional instruction.

  15. “even legal, semiautomatic assault weapons aren’t precision instruments”?

    Then I guess my 80’s vintage AR-15 HBAR must be an execption. Or not. It only shoots less than 1 MOA from the bench most of the time. Or it is so randomly inaccurate that, due to the trigger “getting looser”, it compensates unintentionally and sticks 100 rounds into a baseball at 100 yards. Honestly, as hard as I try, I just can’t get it to “spray”.

    I’d wager that the safest place to be when one of these morons has a weapon would be right in front of them.

  16. She obviously has her head up her chute and is too stupid to realize how stupid she is. Maybe someone should let her land a plane (with zero instruction) and see how she does. Or better yet someone should tell her how scrubbing the kitchen floor with a combination of bleach and ammonia really brings out the sparkle.

  17. Through this post and link, TTAG clearly increased the Chicago Sun Times’s readership severalfold. That rag was almost dead, and, in recent years, it has been printed on Sam Zell’s presses which turn out its old rival, The Chicago Tribune. Knowing Zell’s business methods, he most likely bought the Tribune in order to try and convert its Michigan Avenue building into luxury condominiums. The bargain failed as the Chicago (and Illinois) economy collapsed, taking real estate prices down sharply. Old Sam is now stuck with property that is not going to make him money, and two rags that make for expensive birdcage liners, and which are useless for anything else. I guess you guys need to entertain yourselves from time to time, and that is why you seek out every failing rag in the country. Don’t worry – neither the Sun Times nor the Chicago tribune have any influence – when the Heler decision came out, Zell’s boys ran a front page editorial that instructed Congress to “Repeal the Second Amendment.” I can see where that has happened, even while both rags continue to bleed investors’ money.

  18. Hey TTAG. I’m looking for info on the crime rates related to the passage of right to carry laws, AWBs, and Gun Free Zones to write a paper for college any good sources?

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