Illinois Gov Rauner Gun Dealer Licensing
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“In Illinois, a handful of shops have sold hundreds of “crime guns” — guns that later turn up at crime scenes. Just two suburban gun shops sold 1,673 of the guns used in crimes in Chicago from 2013 through 2016, according to a city of Chicago report released last year. Requiring certification would give the state a tool to keep those guns away from criminals. Do we really want guns to keep flying off the shelves into the hands of criminals?

“With the possibility of their certification being revoked, those shops would be motivated to train employees to prevent easy burglaries and sales to “straw purchasers” who buy guns for others who can’t legally own one. One way to do that is to use video surveillance to track who is actually buying the guns.

“In vetoing an earlier version of the certification bill, Rauner said it would increase red tape without making anyone safer. He said the same thing Monday, even though the bill was rewritten to eliminate the red tape he objected to.

“Red tape isn’t the horror in Illinois, it’s the red blood on the streets. Here’s hoping Rauner figures that out.” – Chicago Sun-Times editorial, Governor, please don’t veto Illinois’ best bet to limit gun violence [via]

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  1. “With the possibility of their certification being revoked”

    Because ten years in federal, pound you in the arse prison isn’t reason enough not to sell to prohibited individuals?

    • But “blood on the streets(TM)”.

      (I wonder if antis have a hot key for that phrase so they don’t have to type it out.)

    • And if extra certification, licensing and taxing of gun stores is “Illinois’ best bet to limit gun violence”, we in Illinois are truly fvcked.

      • It is likely that the clowns elected to the state legislature are part of the problem too.

  2. “…Just two suburban gun shops sold 1,673 of the guns used in crimes”

    Which represents what percentage of the total number of guns recovered at crime scenes?

    “…to prevent easy burglaries”

    What, exactly, is an ‘easy burglary?’

    “straw purchasers”

    Which is already a crime so lets add a law and make it illegal-er to straw-purchase a gun. That way we can send the buyers AND the seller to jail.

    How about a great big bucket of NOPE on all of these ideas of yours. How about you start focusing on the criminals instead of distracting yourself with the tools they use to commit their crimes.

    • Amen, Chip!! The problem is that none of these criminals have to pay dearly enough for the crimes they commit. What’s next, outlawing cars? THEY kill hundreds every year…knives, baseball bats, screwdrivers??? Anything can become a weapon! Where is the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY in these crimes?? It can be laid squarely at the feet of those who commit the crimes, and those in the judicial system that actually believe we should give these people a hug and some rehab!! NO GUN CONTROL will ever stop these idiots no matter how or to whom the laws are directed!! It certainly isn’t legal gun owners committing these crimes, nor is it honest, by-the-book gun dealers. When in hell are liberals going to de-louse their own closets before jumping on the bandwagon to punish legal gun owners and gun dealers??

      • They can ‘t afford to lock up serious criminals in Chitcago.

        1. There are a LOT of very bad criminals in Chit-town.

        2. Spending more on prisons would mean less available for public employee pensions, and public pensions cost a fortune there. Not to mention lottery sized pensions for retired city employees are way more important than fighting crime.

    • they already know it’s illegal…they’re just trying to make it harder to accomplish…and having a dealer put his guns in a safe at the end of the day is a good idea…prevents “easy burgulary’s”…[smash and grab]

  3. What type or amount of training will prevent sales to “straw purchasers?” How often does a person covered in gang tattoos enter a gun shop with a “friend” to buy a gun? Granted there are some really dumb criminals out there but, it can’t be easy to spot a “straw purchaser” in the act.

    • I agree. How many times have you seen a “knowledgeable” person help a novice friend buy a gun? Or go with a friend to see him pick out his new pride and joy? I’ve done it a few times myself. Unless you see the non-buyer pass money to the buyer or say something like “Buy me that Glock,” you can’t tell if it’s a straw purchase. If you’re a smart straw purchaser, you send the buyer in alone with a shopping list and a story like, “I shot my friend’s Glock 17, and I want one too.”

    • one method i’ve always put forward for deterring straw purchasing would be for law enforcement to follow-up after a sale by contacting the purchaser and asking them to produce the weapon for proof of ownership…this could occur anytime up to a year after purchase…since it would cause them more work they’re probably not interested, but I believe it would slow them down a bit….

      • Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with having police officers suddenly show up on your doorstep demanding to see your gun(s) “RIGHT NOW!”

        Just think of what the tinfoil hat conspiracies are everywhere brigade would turn this idea into in their minds.

    • I have arthritis in my hands such that it makes holding a pen and writing very difficult. It does not affect my shooting much, if at all, but it does make filling out all the paperwork difficult. Some shops have switched over to electronic forms and those are no problem for me, but when it’s paper forms I need help printing everything I’m supposed to print. I can do it, but I’m going to need a chair to sit and a lot of time to accomplish it, and the final product may not be easy to read. I’ve never seen any BATF guideline on what to do in such a case but generally I have my wife accompany me, show ID, and ask beforehand if they will allow her to fill out the form for me (while getting my verbal answer to all questions) and then having me sign it. I’ve never had an FFL yet who had an issue with this but I don’t believe it’s exactly according to the rules. Lord knows what the Chicago Sun-Times would blow it up into.

  4. The simple fact of their proximity to the city could just as well account for the percent of guns used in Chicago. Unless intent can be shown to break the law there is no cause to persecute these businesses. You know, the old innocent ’till proven guilty routine.

  5. The fact that “crime guns” is in scare quotes makes one wonder how many of the “crimes” were regulatory in nature, maybe an expired FOID card?

  6. Welp, if Rauner has any hope of me voting for him that bill better only get through by veto over ride.

  7. A lot of straw purchasers are probably older respectable folks from gang controlled neighborhoods who are given a choice between buying guns for a gang or seeing their family decapitated. Or maybe they need the money.

    Has any law enforcement agency traced the history of these weapons from original buyer to gangster ?
    How many if any, of the guns were originally purchased by the same person.?

  8. Ask the Sun-Times if closing the door on criminals is a good idea or not because Chicago is one of the easiest places to get away with shooting people.

  9. The Feds regulate the dealers, but the state regulates the buyers. Every purchase in Illinois by a citizen of Illinois requires the purchaser to have a FOID card. Looks to me that Illinois government can’t figure out which FOID holders are straw purchasers. Fix your own before you start trying to fix others’.

    • still have a hard time justifying having to ask permission to exercise a constitutional right…stuff like this needs to be legally challenged…hopefully, it will be….

  10. “Crime guns” include those recovered from burglars. So, if Trayvon gets arrested and cops find the two dozen guns I bought over 39 years from Chuck’s guns that he stole out of my cheap-ass stack-on safe, that suddenly becomes 24 ‘crime guns from chuck’s” to these shitbirds.

  11. Well I bought my first gat from-you guessed it-Chuck’s Gunshop in Riverdale. They were quite strict(rather pricky). Their clientele is probably 80-90% brown folks. He!! I won’t even drive through the neighborhood NOW…other than moving to a “good” hood I don’t know what they can do. That’s the endgame. Shut all gun stores down. Rauner is doomed anyways…I wouldn’t wipe my arse with the Scum Times.

  12. ‘One way to do that is to use video surveillance to track who is actually buying the guns.’

    Because that’s so much easier that pulling out the 4473 and the photocopy of the buyer’s driver’s license…

    • And you have to be buzzed in to their security door. Never heard of a theft from Chuck’s either…unlike most of the other LGS’s(Glenwood,Deb’s,Blythe’s in Griffith AND Valporaiso).

  13. How did scum bags get to those TWO GUN SHOPS? Likely by automobile. Maybe Illinois needs “AUTO DEALER LICENSING as will. Yeah, that should stop crime.
    Now someone tell me how many times the ATF has done an audit the gun shops in question?

    • So let’s make automobile manufacturers and sellers responsible for the criminal misuse of their products. And also stop the private car sale loophole (/ sarc).

      Is there no end to this silliness once the precedent has been set? How long is the chain of guilt supposed to be?

  14. Lets be real this will make no difference. People in Chicago who buy guns of all sorts will likely go to the closest place they can within reason. Would you go to a 7-11 10 miles away to buy a soda if there’s one a block down? “Just common sense.”

    • Don’t say something like that! 🙂
      They banned sodas in NYC so peeps have to go to NJ.
      ….and you better not have a gun in your possession on that run!

  15. Do we really want guns to keep flying off the shelves into the hands of criminals?

    It would seem that way since the Chicago criminal justice system is notorious for routinely giving criminals extremely short prison sentences — when their justice system even bothers to give prison sentences.

    One way to [reduce straw purchases] is to use video surveillance to track who is actually buying the guns.

    That sounds nice on paper. In reality the cost for each gun shop would be on the order of $40,000 or more, every few years. Remember, each gun shop would have to maintain video recordings for several years if investigators want to match a firearm found at a crime scene with the purchaser who could have purchased the firearm several years ago. Each year of video storage from multiple cameras in high-definition would add up to about 80 Terabytes. Thus, five years of video storage would add up to 400 Terabytes. With hard drives holding about 3 Terabytes these days, that would require the gun shop to keep 133 hard drives in secure storage. And it would require the gun shop operator to swap out hard drives every two weeks or so.

    • More importantly, keeping video of firearm purchases is UTTERLY AND TOTALLY UNNECESSARY to determine who are acting as straw purchasers: remember that purchasers in Illinois must have an Illinois F.O.I.D. card AND driver’s license to purchase firearms from a federal firearms licensee. Both the F.O.I.D. card and the driver’s license have the name and PHOTO of the purchaser.

      This simply proves that any law which requires gun stores to maintain video of all purchases in order to identify purchasers is nothing more than a way to seriously increase the operating cost of a gun store.

    • Nobody uses their own on-site media any more for long term retention, only as the local cache for data on its way to cold storage in the cloud. (Amazon even offers an archive product called “Glacier”.) That industry’s business model is “Rent as much as you want, we’ll make more!” Clearly this newspaper is in the pocket of Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, and Paul Allen.

      • And what is the going annual rate these days to store 400 Terabytes of data on someone’s servers? That is not going to be cheap.

        • AWS’s Glacier cost calculator says storing 400T would run $1,638.40/month or $19,660.80/year.
          “Store all you want, we’ll make more!”

          That low-low price includes the labor and supply-chain and capital costs of managing storage, backups, security, power, redundancy, etc…

  16. Since it’s now ok to deny rights without due process, who’ll step forward to suggest all media be suspended of their privileges to the the first amendment whenever someone claims they reported an inaccurate or misleading fact?

  17. Wouldn’t it be better to ask the ATF to investigate those two gunshops instead of inconveniencing the rest of them in the State with more license fees?
    South Carolina used to license gunshops at $50 a year and then repealed the law as the Legislature decided a Federal Firearms License was good enough for them to sell firearms. They still have to a have business license.

  18. So two shops sold 1673 of the guns found at crime scenes or used in crimes? I bet 1600 of them were stolen firearms and the others were legit sales to punks who had no record.

    They make it sound like these shops were dealing.out the back door to gang bangers.

    A majority of shootings are drug and gang related and involve 15 to 20 year old “children”.

  19. Where is the ATF, they would be all over any other shop UNLESS its owned by minorities or SOMEONE CONNECTED TO AN ILLINOIS OFFICIAL.

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