Before President Trump took office, The People of the Gun were giddy at the prospect of gun rights restoration. At the very least, we expected suppressors to be removed from the National Firearms Act, so they could be purchased with a simple background check at an FFL. Nope. All we get in that regard . . .
is some additional funding for the notoriously some might say infamously anti-gun rights ATF to process suppressor applications more quickly. National reciprocity? Fuhgeddaboutit.
In fact, President Trump (and the NRA) supports new gun regulation: “fixing NICs” and so-called Extreme Risk Protection Orders — a California-born “innovation” that puts Americans’ right to due process and their right to keep and bear arms at risk.
Not to mention directing the Department of Justice to find a way to ban bump fire stocks — a regulation that may open the door to restrictions on other gun parts and accessories and, eventually, certain types of firearms.
On the positive side, President Trump wants the DOJ to help train armed teachers. And he still isn’t Hillary Clinton. Is that enough to maintain your support for President Trump, assuming he had it before?
He ain’t Hillary. That’s about it. Yes we got a Supreme Court slot but I suspect we will get nothing more. He really doesn’t care about our cares.
Yeah, that’s about it. I wasn’t a matter of who we liked the most – I was a choice of who was going to hate us the least. The lesser of the two evils, as it were.
And that old witch just pointed out the other day how deep her contempt for us runs… I have to say, it was actually kinda refreshing to see the real Hillary unmasked with all her uncoached and unscripted bigotry on display.
Yep, pretty much.
Also, the first time I ever voted and then felt like I needed a shower.
I somehow doubt that Hillary could have been worse, simply for the fact that she is opposed by default. I remember the movie The Andromeda Strain, where the researcher finds that hyperventilating, the fear of death is the thing that is keeping him alive. I think it was the same for us. The utter suspicion to which we held the president and congress mobilized us and made us win again and again. Now we’ve let our guard down and the guy we thought was going to protect our rights came out in support of the violation of our rights. Thanks to him, millions of gun owners in Florida are screwed, and we have made no gains nation-wide. This would not have happened under Obama and it’s because we had a clear opposition.
Bingo. The left was galvanized while the right was complacent and is now fractured.
Not one inch. Shall not be infringed.
Guns ain’t the only thing wrong with the evil POS (D).
And. . .
Your shit head Reps write the laws, the biggest problem is our dickhead neighbors who needed a job wanna freelance across lines of authority and they are using their authority against us for their own personal gains.
F em all.
We also got a number of lower federal court judges that are not hillary’s picks. I voted, and said this often, for trump cause he wasn’t hillary.
Bamboozled is the word.
Yup. He’s not Hillary. That’s all I can say for him.
That and he is willing to let US businesses grow by ending the unpredictable tax and regulatory environments created by Obama. Environments that made business afraid to invest.
I’ll vote for a a GoP registered ostrich in a top hat before ANY democrat. The ostrich might change its feathers, but I KNOW what the Democrats starting position is.
Have not “voted” for anyone in the last 30 years, and don’t ever plan to. Liberty is never one of the choices…
But I do wonder… If Hillary had “won” last time, we might be in the final mopping up phase of the “revolution” by this time. Why kick the can down the road any longer?
The boys are never home by Christmas.
We’d still be in Part One of at least a 10 year long war.
You’re not going to fight the revolution, mama. Don’t be in a hurry with other folks blood.
Then you are a failure as a citizen. Since you don’t participate in the democracy that the founders fought for, you’re NOT for liberty. Stop your bitchin’. You are a taker.
No founders fought for democracy. They viewed democracy as one of the most repugnant forms of government. They fought for a republic. The constitution they created has failed to protect our basic liberties from the federal government (the whole point of this article).
And how exactly is somebody who is for liberty supposed to vote for a republican or democrat? Two groups that both support increasing taxes and/or debt to increase spending, spying on us illegally, controlling our guns, controlling our finances, etc. etc.
You should probably study up on history a bit. The original Articles of Confederation detail a weak federal system with most jurisdiction within the states, all of the states had express representational democracy in their state constitutions, which were the functional underpinning of the Republic. So, yes, even the founding fathers thought that voting was key for citizen participation.
Of course Mama wouldn’t get to vote because I’m assuming she is a she not a he, so maybe she is a pure textual constructionist and believes that she should not have the right to vote, so doesn’t.
She never said that, she said she doesn’t vote. And since 1789, when the Constitution was ratified by those same founders, yeah, voting, pretty important.
@ Leroy… no, she didn’t not say she didn’t vote. She does what I and many people do, she goes to the polls and votes against Candidate Horrible by voting for their opponent.
Umm, guy, she said she hasn’t voted in 30 years. That reads like not voting, not only voting for none of the above.
I keep seeing this “we are not a democracy” bullshit from people. What ignoramus started that completely inaccurate talking point? All it does is make gun people look like morons who can’t crack a book. I don’t like looking stupid so please stop. We have been and continue to be a representative democracy in the United States.
“I keep seeing this “we are not a democracy” bullshit from people. What ignoramus started that completely inaccurate talking point?”
Because they happen to be right.
BTW, the USA is a ‘Representative Republic’, not a “representative democracy”…
It is both, hence a representative democracy. Go ahead an read Volokh. It is literally the definition that our founders used to describe “The Republic” that they were creating, read the federalist papers.
You charge the Bastille first Mama. It is sleazy advocate for an insurrection by any means other than leading the charge in person. You haven’t done that.
In my own way, I’ve been an activist for individual liberty all my adult life. I have zero interest in starting any such “revolution.” I am armed and ready to resist if the controllers decide to start physical war on the population. A very big difference. As with most of us, all I am really asking is to be left alone. I don’t want to have anything to do with controlling the lives and property of others.
Sure taker, we’ll leave you alone, leave us alone. You love the rights someone gives you, but you don’t actually want to be bothered with them. Sure, fine, go away.
Every person has the exact same natural “right” to life, liberty and property. They are a part of being human and are not “given” to anyone by anyone else. The thing so many people don’t seem to understand is that NOBODY has any “right” to control the life or property of others. The lust to control others is the root of all evil… the root of all non-voluntary government and the end goal of every politician and bureaucrat on earth. I don’t want any thing from you, or anyone else, just the mutual agreement in freedom to associate voluntarily and in peace.
When you “vote,” you are hoping you and your gang can force your will on everyone else, and everyone else who votes hopes for the same. How does that work for liberty and justice?
So by natural law your are referencing Martin Luther the originator of the modern view of natural rights?–“Furthermore, every man is responsible for his own faith, and he must see it for himself that he believes rightly. As little as another can go to hell or heaven for me, so little can he believe or disbelieve for me; and as little as he can open or shut heaven or hell for me, so little can he drive me to faith or unbelief. Since, then, belief or unbelief is a matter of every one’s conscience, and since this is no lessening of the secular power, the latter should be content and attend to its own affairs and permit men to believe one thing or another, as they are able and willing, and constrain no one by force.”
Or by the father of American natural rights philosophy George Mason?–“That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent natural Rights, of which they cannot by any Compact, deprive or divest their Posterity; among which are the Enjoyment of Life and Liberty, with the Means of acquiring and possessing Property, and pursuing and obtaining Happiness and Safety.”
Notice that at no point do either, nor John Locke, etc, ever mention that your natural rights mean you are excepted from your civic responsibility, in fact they state the exact opposite.
So your theory of your rights is your own, not based on anything more than your FEELZ. This is exactly the worst part of snowflakes and their safe spaces BS, which is why it isn’t limited to just the left of the political spectrum.
The only “civic responsibility” anyone has is to abstain from the initiation of force against others, to live in voluntary association with others within that constraint. And by that same restraint, to be free of imposition by force from others. Is not this basic fact the reason behind the other natural right of self defense?
Voluntary contracts or agreements fit into that freedom completely, of course. I am obligated to honor my contracts and agreements… but how can I be obligated to something imposed on me by others, by force?
This is clear in the writings you yourself cite.
So, you just don’t believe in the function of government, no armed forces, no border, no president, no judge, if it happens on the other side of your fence, its fine. OK, noted.
You do you.
Exactly. You can have any of those you wish… as long as you (and whoever else wants them) pays for it – without imposing their control on anyone who is not willing to be their subjects. I don’t care in the least if some people want to be subjects… I object to having that status imposed by lies, theft and violence on those who do not want it.
People can have security, peace and prosperity most easily by voluntary action, association and cooperation. Why do you think anything must be imposed on people?
Your position is inconsistent.
On the one hand:
You mention that there is no civic duty to participate in the governing of our society because everyone should simply interact with each other honorably on a voluntary basis and there is therefore no need for government.
On the other hand:
You mention the right to self-defense. From what? Why would we need self-defense if everyone is supposed to interact with each other honorably on a voluntary basis?
Saying it another way, your “all we need is to leave each other alone” position fails to address the REALITY that evildoers are among us. And those evildoers are not constrained to street thugs in bad neighborhoods: some of those evildoers are bureaucrats and politicians.
Government’s primary purpose is to punish evil-doers and insulate society from their repeated abuses. And since that affects all of us — especially when the evildoers work in government — it is incumbent upon all of us to participate in the government process (voting).
You may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in (exploiting) you.
I apologize for misinterpreting your comments as expressing an interest in someone else trying to start a war.
“In my own way…..”
Mama’s point is “on point”. Gevernment is NOT here for “law enforcement”, certainly not on the Federal level. It is for dealing with interstate issues and providing for the common defense of the States (simplified, of course).
All other functions are basically unconstitutional.
Mama is simply pointing out that in a classically liberal society (no, not that ‘liberal”, that has been appropriated by the progressives and left leaning socialists) no one is beholden to others. The best candidate in the ’16 presidential race said it well… “I look forward to a day when a same sex couple can defend their marijuana plantation with automatic weapons.” -Austin Petersen. The reality is “government” has zero business deciding who sleeps with whom, what is in anyone’s medicine or liquor cabinet, or what they do on a daily basis, at all.
If a “societal group” cares to enact laws to govern their group, then so be it, but Mama isn’t far off from Utopia. Of course the mere fact many of the statists around here have problems with that outlook is exactly why we have the issues we have today. One turd doesn’t like others getting high. Another doesn’t like anyone having guns. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum. It’s simple folks, she’s merely saying that life can be summed up in one step, one law. Don’t be a dick. If only there was a universal definition of that….
I too have not voted in a presidential election for quite some time. Why? Both party’s are the same good cop bad cop. 8 years Dem 8 years Republic, nothing really changes. Voting presidential is a moral indicator, low voter turnout, moral is low , high voter turnout the populace believes in the lie.Give me someone besides a snake and I’d vote.
Revolutions usually end up looking more French or Russian (leading to more tyranny) than American (leading to more liberty).
We got lucky last time, thanks to a combination of a distant, preoccupied government; years of benign neglect by said government leading to self sufficiency; a pioneer spirit of rugged individualism; intervention on our side by foreign powers; and an almost miraculous group of intelligent aristocratic leaders shaped by the Enlightenment.
Today we have invasive government control over every aspect of our lives; a culture of selfish dependency on the state; structural fragility in our civilization caused by high population density, dependence on electricity, high technological complexity, and diminishing energy return on energy invested from fossil fuels; and an aristocratic leadership class filled with self-serving would-be tyrants like Hillary and Soros. In other words, we look a lot more France 1798 or Russia 1917 than America 1776.
Comment of the year.
RF, I’d be interested to have you put this comment up as it’s own post and see where the discussion goes.
Over all, yes we look more like France or Russia did politically during their revolutions. However, I would say that most POtG are concerned with constitutionality and freedom as a top priorities. As said POtG have the vast majority of guns and most are “well regulated” in the proper sense of the words, the out-come of a new U.S. revolution would in near certainty be a return to the Constitution, not to a France or Russia post revolution style of government.
In other words, we look a lot more France 1798 or Russia 1917 than America 1776.
Sad, but true.
In less than ten years her Government was changed from a republic to an empire, and finally, after shedding rivers of blood, foreign powers restored her exiled dynasty and exhausted Europe sought peace and repose in the unquestioned ascendency of monarchical principles. Let us learn wisdom from her example. Let us remember that revolutions do not always establish freedom. Our own free institutions were not the offspring of our Revolution. They existed before. They were planted in the free charters of self-government under which the English colonies grew up, and our Revolution only freed us from the dominion of a foreign power whose government was at variance with those institutions. But European nations have had no such training for self-government, and every effort to establish it by bloody revolutions has been, and must, without that preparation, continue to be a failure. Liberty, unregulated by law, degenerates into anarchy, which soon becomes the most horrid of all despotisms. Our policy is wisely to govern ourselves, and thereby to set such an example of national justice, prosperity, and true glory, as shall teach to all nations the blessings of self-government, and the unparalleled enterprise and success of a free people.
Why kick the can down the road any longer? That’s why I, and many people that I know, considered actually voting for Hillary. Perhaps we should have… Probably not, but who knows.
I’m probably going to vote democrat this next run just to stop kicking the can down the road… I’m not complying with unconstitutional opinions and fiat anyway, so why not? The faster we make life miserable for the most number of people in a single generation, the better the odds of getting the fix under way.
I don’t disagree with you. If the frog is allowed to slowly boil, it won’t know to jump. Besides, we all get older. Normalization and indoctrination means that incremental tyranny will win in the end. The real exercise of unalienable individual rights is rarely restored incrementally. Normalization and government tendency towards increased power all but guarantees it. Each generation has a chance to stand and fight. If it does not, then the next generation has a much more difficult task ahead. IMHO, massive civil disobedience seems like the first logical approach. Unfortunately, the POTG seem nowhere near ready for even that. Liberty may very well die with a whimper in this country. The rest of the World will soon follow.
Never before, in the recorded history of humankind, has the technology and military force been at a point to which near global tyranny would be possible. There are fewer terrestrial frontiers upon which to escape. That, in my opinion, is the fate of nearly the entire globe in a few generations; if individuals do not wake up and resist.
Yeah, a protest for POtG 2A advocacy will draw dozens of people, and the pro gun control rally has 5k. POtG just don’t seem to care, or more to the point, gun owners don’t care. There are a few thousand POtG, there are millions of gun owners, but the vast majority of those are pro gun control folk.
You haven’t voted? That’s pretty sad. It isn’t far to guess that you’ve never supported any pro-gun candidates in any way. No wonder gun rights are on the ropes.
For now. We know all Trump promises have an unknown expiration date (just ask his exwives), we have already tarried to long on some. Suppressors? NATIONAL RECIPROCITY? District Judges? 2A friendly BATFE-M O U S E leadership?
He simply was and is the lesser of two evils. Nothing more. Nothing less.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
Bob in Calif,
Your vote for a candidate does not, I repeat, DOES NOT mean that you are in league with that candidate or that you think that candidate is good and righteous. All it means is that you are voting for the candidate which best reflects your values among AVAILABLE CANDIDATES. The candidate who receives your vote may be a terrible reflection of your values — and the alternative candidates are even worse reflections of your values.
Furthermore, voting does not mean that you endorse the current political system. Again, it is simply something that you can do to try and improve an awful system.
Amen to that. Contribute to pro gun candidates and pro gun causes. If that isn’t how the war is won, that’s at least a way to lose gun rights more slowly.
And yet a vote carries with it a mandate for the candidate’s policies…
Trump>Hitlery, but nothing to really write home about. My picking order.
Hitlery was just dead last even among the Donkeycraps.
Nailed it. I had hope, my hope was mis-placed.
Trump is a con man and those who voted for him are the marks. Trump never cared about gun rights and used the proles to get elected.
We did get one solid result from Trump: a solid conservative (by all appearances) justice on the U.S. Supreme Court. (Bonus: Trump may also be appointing conservative justices in the lower courts.)
If the Democrats had taken the White House, they most certainly would NOT have appointed a solid conservative justice.
There’s no “most certainly” to it. They already had their pick lined up, and he was far worse than Obama’s pick of Garland.
It is quite possible, maybe likely, if Hillary had been elected BHO himself would be sitting on the SCOTUS right now.
Perhaps if you said “those who voted for him in the primaries were marks,” I’d agree more strongly. I wasn’t duped when I pulled the lever for Trump in the general. I pretty much knew what I was getting. Or I thought I did. It’s early yet.
“I prefer a straight up fight to all this sneaking around.”
He is not getting my vote in 2020 but I am thankful he beat her. Most pro gun people still love President “you do not need an ak47 for home defense” Reagan. Trump has still done more good than bad but I don’t trust him to fight for gun rights.
But will you vote for a dem? The chances of having another viable option are not very good. If a large number of people who generally vote GOP are planning on sitting 2018 and 2020 out, we actually might be in trouble again. You want a radical leftist? I’m pretty sure that will be what the Dems’ offer up in 2020 (though they won’t be packaged that way; they’ll talk more like moderates in the general, just like Obama did)
Let’s put the blame where it is due – weak-kneed, spineless Senate.
Correct. House is not much better. Most of what Robert and we want must go thru the legislature. Problem is the SWAMP is real. The legislature, courts, and bureaucracy is invested and infested. AND President Trump is not part of either the Republican “main stream” swamp (or the demtard).
If the President doesn’t lead, Congress won’t follow!
President Trump gave a speech at last year’s NRA Annual Meeting. It had exactly zero 2A legislative agenda in it. It was a speech about President Trump, just like all of his speeches. President Trump failed to provide a 2A vision and failed to give political cover on 2A issues, and on many other things, including repealing and replacing ObamaCare. He is charlatan, a con man. That’s it.
He did give political cover on gun control, mostly because he actually doesn’t know what he is doing. A day later, he changed his mind. Now, it’s arming teachers.
Since when do we want the federal government to arm and train teachers? The people of the gun may want to read up what Rob Pincus has to say about that. It is not about “arming teachers” but about “don’t disarm teachers”! It is not about “government mandated training” but about “the right to self defense”!
Even when it comes down to this topic, President Trump, and the NRA, screwed it up. Neither is capable in properly articulating a pro 2A public policy.
The conservative insurgency knew perfectly well just who they were getting when supporting Trump. Basically, Trump’s a hired gun. He knows it and those of us who support him know it. I don’t think he particularly likes us but, then, we don’t have to particularly like him either. I think he handled the mid-moral-panic over gun-control rather well by adroitly moving the whole slide-fire-stock issue out of the legislative path and making it a presidential policy initiative. Policies are always easier to change than laws—something I keep repeating here.
Trump’s nemesis continues to be the “Uniparty” Republican/Democrat establishment in congress which serves big-business globalist interests and which, under Ryan and McConnell, continue to oppose Trump and gun-rights at every turn.
Frankly, People Of The Gun proclaiming their intent to not vote for Trump is, given our plainly evident circumstances, seems to me to be—and I’ll put it politely—amazingly naive since our other choice will be a progressive-fascist run government which will most likely demand “Australian style” gun confiscation.
The key, as always, is to watch what Trump DOES, not what he SAYS. Until such time as he sells me out I will continue to stand with him.
It doesn’t say very good things about the hysterics of some people around here about President Trump. The man has already showed that he’s willing to play the Dems and RINOs off of one and other to find a middle ground or flat out work around them.
That said, I strongly disagree with how the President has even held court with traitorous swine like Feinstein. But I do understand the realities of playing the political game as it is. Ultimately the best thing to do is to hold his feet to the proverbial fire to keep him accountable.
So, you only care about your 2A rights when it is too late, when President Trump banned “rate increasing devices” or signed a bill containing gun control?
What the President says has a lot of weight. The President provides the vision for his legislative agenda and political cover for the members of his party in Congress and in state legislatures.
President Trump only cares about himself. He willingly or accidentally supported gun control with his public statements. What are the chances of any Congress critter to support a pro 2A bill in this political climate? If the President doesn’t support a pro 2A bill, why should they?
Yeah… if only spooling out endless lines of rope for the leftists to hang themselves with hasn’t been a Trump signature move for almost a year and a half… oh… wait…
I don’t get it. If the rope is endless, then they can’t hang themselves, or is that the point? He thinks he’s giving out rope, but its spaghetti. I’m confused.
Pence or Cruz 2020…Donnie just revealed who he was. “If I ever run for President I’ll run as a Republican”-1989.
Please help save our 2nd Amendment rights. Please pass the first link to others so we can get this petition sent to the White House.
Oppose Gun Control and Weapons Ban Legislation
too early in the slow moving game of ‘ poli ticks ‘ to say yet young fellas as others said before; san fran diane was set up for her ‘bill’
We should be pushing to make anti rights legislation not leagle to push why? cuz its a failure to uphold oath of office to defend constituitional rights thats why. Start DEMANDING THAT BE ADDRESSED.
WE HEREBY DECLARE THAT the bill / 115th-congress// house-bill 5087 is sedition to the constitution and the author’s and co sponsors should and need to be, brought up on charges of sedition to the constitution today .
start the petition it will need 100,000 signers in 30 days white house response in 60 days.
read also https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/user/login?destination=petition/create
More power to you, you go. But Congress would never pass such a thing. I doubt you’d get single vote in either house, even if it got to the floor. You want that, you’ll need a convention of the states to amend the constitution. Then, after you amend the constitution, you’ll need a SCOTUS ruling to enforce every single violation.
too early in the slow moving game of ‘ poli ticks ‘ to say yet young fellas as others said before; san fran diane was set up for her ‘bill’
We should be pushing to make anti rights legislation not leagle to push why? cuz its a failure to uphold oath of office to defend constituitional rights thats why. Start DEMANDING THAT BE ADDRESSED.
WE HERBY DECLARE THAT the bill / 115th-congress// house-bill 5087 is seidition to the constitution and the author and co sponsers should and need to be, brought up on charges of sedition to the constitution today .
You do realize that there isn’t the slightest chance of such charges actually being filed, do you not?
Meanwhile Armslist has been down for about 45 minutes. I wonder if their domain registrar is messing with them…
Trump is a corrupt businessman vice another corrupt politician. He will throw anything he deems necessary under the bus to make the deal he wants. Both parties in the legislature despise him. They are paying a slightly different game than normal because of an outsider President. I absolutely believe the Senate and House are working together to maintain the political status quo.
He got my vote but, I didn’t vote for him. I voted against Clinton. I’ve never had any illusions about Trump. The future is far to uncertain to say he would get my vote again.
Trump swung back to his anti-gun roots. Question is what side of the gun debate his SCOTUS pick will be because he likes to say he closed the deal and an anti-gun SCOTUS will be an easy confirmation after Dems take both houses
If the house changes and he gets impeached, it won’t bother me a bit. I’ll enjoy watching him get eaten alive, that I’d even watch CSPAN for. He is a douche bag and I suspect he will likely cause a full turnover of government by a wide margin in 2020. I doubt he cares about that. Apparently he only wants to win his petty personal squabbles. I didn’t vote for him and the only thing good I can say about the 2016 elections was Hillary didn’t get the crown and Scalia wasn’t replaced by a progressive.
Impeachment == civil war.
Actually, impeachment = genocide for all 20-25 million filthy, subhuman, Liberal Terrorists™️. And yes, that includes men, women and children. Total war is the ONLY solution. And again, yes, I’m serious.
== typically means is not equal, not sure in this case.
Oh, and if you’re serious, you’re an imbecile. Between an idiot and a moron.
Over him? That would be unfortunate. IMO having Pence for president would be preferable to war if the Senate convicted Trump.
He’s not Clinton. Period. And if it again comes down to him against another filthy, subhuman, Liberal Terrorist™️ I’ll sprain both legs running to the voting booth for him.
So you maintain that political opponents are “subhuman” now? Perhaps in another language, “Untermenschen”? Charming.
And little does he realize that when the gallows rope twangs it will probably be the last sound he also will hear.
That is how libtards view us unless you have been living under a rock since forever.
Media, popular culture, academia, and the vast majority of government hates conservatism/libertarianism. They want us all DEAD and subconsciously broadcast it 24/7.
So your move.
You going to keep thinking you can vote yourself into liberty? Haha, then you are more naïve and stupid than the libtards. This is also from someone who votes though at this point why bother anymore when the game is rigged and there is only one solution but no one wants to talk about it or face it because they still think they have a voice!!
The “He’s not Hillary” card expired. Cruz/Paul 2020.
Suppose (as is likely) Trump wins the nomination and is running against, say, Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris.
I don’t think that’s going to happen, either actually. I very seriously doubt he’d get out of a primary. Silly people believed the “bidnessman” hype, he drives turnout, against himself now, and I don’t see it getting any better. He says dumb things daily, and with the level of turnover in the White House, by 2020 he’ll be on his 5th or 6th staff. The generals are already looking for the escape hatch, and all of the replacements appear to be TV personalities.
2 more years of this 12th degree chess, most people are going to recognize its just a toddler throwing chess pieces around the room.
Then we wound have our first woman Presiden. Trump does not polkas well as eulogies them
Trump is better than Clinton, that’s perhaps one of the few good thing that can be said about him. But he is the prez, and I actually believe he will cruise to victory in 2020. With that knowledge, I think we need to think of ways to work within these constraints. For starters, Trump is wishy washy, but that could be to our benefit, because he does show some support for a loud and vocal base. It means we need to put the pressure on him constantly. Likewise we need to convince him to listen more to his son rather than Jared or Ivanka, especially on guns.
I think a lot more emphasis can be put on spineless Republicans than Trump. Executive is rather limited in what (damage) they can do to 2A. But man, some of these Republican congressmen — it’s like with these friends who needs enemies. And legislation begins with them.
I am more inclined to wait and see where this will go first. The devil is in the actual details of which very little has come out. Those little details that have come out are very different than what his mouth has said.
This whole country is very much 50/50 and would not have won with out some of the other sides portion of the 50. One person cannot be everything to everyone. And with that said I believe he is a very smart negotiator. Everything has to be brought to congress and not likely to pass anyway at the federal level and its coming to light that the states that recently passed such draconian laws are now being challanged. Will he get my vote again? Yep. I will never vote democrate/liberal. I will never not vote either because thats a vote for the other side.
We have come a long ways and have done so because of voices like yours and mine. We still have a long ways to go yet and will do so with those same voices. Snap decisions and judgements only serve the other side. Thats their MO, should never be ours.
Love what he’s done with the economy and taxes, kinda like the foreign policy (little refreshing to see the US grow some balls again), I hate what he’s doing on gun rights seems like he is playing chicken with our rights, and I don’t know what’s coming next but I doubt it will bode well for us.
“Before President Trump took office, The People of the Gun were giddy at the prospect of gun rights restoration”
What kind of revisionist history funny grass are you smoking there RF? There were plenty of us here (including yourself at one point) that were pointing out how Trump has repeatedly made anti-gun statements in the past and how he was not going to be a gun friendly GOP nominee…I honestly don’t know what convinced you to suddenly believe in fairies, but given Trump’s past it should be no surprise to anybody that he never gave two sh*ts about gun rights…or about the Constitution for that matter…he’s a slimy trust fund millionaire…a delusional buffon with zero honor and zero morals…we’ll be lucky to make through the next three years with our Republic intact
The first thing Dems will do after taking both houses in November is impeach Trump and even some never-Trump Republicans might vote to impeach. If Pence gets snagged in the Russia investigation, we might have a Democrat President. We live in interesting times.
I don’t know if they’ll have the juice to take both houses. They still seem pretty fractured and still can’t seem to find a good message. The one that just won Pennsylvania seems much more moderate than the last few generations of dems but I don’t expect many more mainline dems to turn more moderate if anything they’ll go even fuller full potato and torpedo their own chances.
The likelihood of them taking the senate is small. House I’m worried.
It’s always possible. Mid terms will be very interesting.
That’s not how impeachment works. If Trump’s bounced, Pence gets it. If Pence gets in trouble, he’s replaced with an appointment. If Trump gets bounced, Pence gets to name a VP, and so on.
The only way to get to the speaker would be to have a dual impeachment that happens literally simultaneously. Which would never happen, the VP would resign, President would appoint a new VP, a la Spiro Agnew.
I haven’t forgiven Reagan for his NRA suborned betrayal. Why would I forgive Trump?
Maybe if he declares rolling NFA amnesties, or smashes “sporting purpose”, both of which he can do in one phone call or email. I’m not going to go groveling back to a politician just for keeping the status quo.
We always knew Trump was no huge Second Amendment supporter he gave lip service to it and to the NRA. The NRA is stuck now supporting him even though he has essentially abandoned them and is only using them for a prop. The major advantage a supporting Trump over Hillary was always the Supreme Court since he came in with a vacancy, at this point all we can hope is that he gets a couple more Supreme Court picks. He has continued to submit highly qualified conservative judges to the federal bench, that will in fact be his only Legacy as far as gun rights are concerned.
Liberals argued during the election that Trump lies and does not keep his word. What did you people expect?
A known liar saying the other fellow isn’t being truthful.
We were afraid that Trump will not keep his word. But we were afraid MORE that Clinton will keep hers.
The (useless) Republicans have controlled the house, senate and Presidency 14 months now. What have they done? Tax cuts. That’ it. They have could have pulled suppressors NFA, they have the votes and Trump would have signed it. You can’t lump Trump in with the completely useless congressional Republicans. Say what you will about Dems, when they are in power they weild it. Republicans seem to be content with winning then doing nothing.
To all the “Trump is a con man” folks. Who did he con? People knew exactly what he was when they voted for him.
What have any Republican Presidents done for gun rights? Either Bush? Reagan, he signed terrible Firearms Owners’ Protection Act.
When have any national Republicans as a party helped gun owners?
They may have majorities in both houses, but they most certainly don’t have the votes. The senate is barely a republican majority and you need 60 votes to achieve cloture, so they’d need quite a few dems to vote for whatever bill they proffered. This is why things are going nowhere.
Trump has suggested they nuke the filibuster altogether, but at this point that would be a very bad idea Incase the senate flips.
Trump was just doing what the NRA wanted
We should have a least had National Reciprocity for Concealed Carry within the first 180 days. Looks like it will never happen now. Democrats have been pushing bans since the Democratic Platform of 1968 with their proposed handguns ban that failed to materialize into the 1980s. Then, they had an idea to ban semi-automatic rifles in the 1990s as softer targets for a ban, than handguns. This plan is well documented in Democratic platforms and papers for disarming the gun owners in the United States. Once, they got the semi-automatic rifles ban 1994 to 2004, they once again wanted a return to the handgun ban debate to be pushed through congress. It is all smoke and mirrors with them. A total ban on all firearms and confiscation of all firearms eventually is their goal. They have even documented the fact that this is their plan, which is a laugh. Make it a criminal act to stand against the constitution of the United States for members of Congress and all political offices. I think they take an oath to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States.
Moral Controversies in American Politics
Democratic Platforms 1968 to Present
“We should have a least had National Reciprocity for Concealed Carry within the first 180 days. . .”
And with a largely anti-Trump congress, exactly how was this going to take place? Scheech.
This is #oneless Trump voter. We got conned by him. Part of me hopes that he either fires Mueller or the Dems win the house and start impeachment. I’d much rather have a President Pence.
“Part of me hopes that he either fires Mueller or the Dems win the house and start impeachment. I’d much rather have a President Pence.”
House can Impeach all they want, it takes 2/3 Senate to convict.That is not going to happen. You think Pence is gonna push for National CCW Reciprocity or taking silencers of NFA? He is good guy but just another squishy Republican who would spend his term trying to please Democrats…..
You mean like the smile Trump put on Dianne Feinstein’s face?
Trump has no beliefs, and what I worry about is when he’s facing a Democratic Congress sending him bills to sign. Is he going to veto? I don’t think he has it in him to stand up to the daily pressure of saying no for two years.
The NRA gave him the script, he simply followed it, not the other way around. Want to hang a traitor, drag Wayne and Chris Cox to the nearest tree.
Never Hillary🙀 She is one mean, crazy 😜 gun grabber. Only thing she doesn’t lie about is her zeal to overturn 2nd. Ammendment.
A proud “deplorable”
I voted ABC (Anyone But Clinton). Trump is not, not has he ever been a conservative nor a 2A advocate nor a person of character. If this is a surprise for anyone, its only because they are willfully ignorant. Show me a true person of character who will follow the Constitution, they have my vote. I don’t care which party. Absent this, I have to vote for the “lesser of 2 evils” and so far the GOP has fulfilled that role.
Nikki Haley might be an interesting one to watch. She has bigger balls than most of the traditional GOP guys and seems to know how to handle herself. It would be fun also watching the Democrat heads exploding running against a minority women with conservative credentials.
Publish your tax returns, call out the Hitler Humpers in VA as bad, or at least naughty, and I’ll consider changing my vote from a write-in to Tr…actually no, I can never vote for a game show host.
Trump can be counted on to do whatever he thinks will help him Win Bigly. Everything and everyone else is subject to be thrown under the bus at any minute.
Don’t count on Trump. Don’t count on the NRA.
Do what you can for freedom, where you are with what you’ve got. And play the long game.
I’ve worked for a cooperation that Trump was a member of. That particular cooperation made its money on selling falsehoods. His brother died from alcohol abuse, Trump doesn’t drink, he says because of that, yet he hasTrump wines, that should tell you something right there.Trump’s in it for Trump. Becoming president was on his bucket list. I don’t think Trump will run in 2020 unless he’s got a hidden agenda to swing some deal with a foreign country. MAGA was just what “WE” wanted to hear. Trump knows there’s money to be made with a Global Economy even if that means Make America a Third World country.Trump cares about having power.
If any of you fools think that your Freedom or Rights will be preserved by a politician of either party. You are in for a sad lesson in life. Your Freedoms and Rights are only preserved by your own hands. How you vote will make little or no difference. Politicians,Judges and Bureaucrats are in it for what they can do for each other. That is why the Founding Fathers put forth the Bill of Rights. They knew that Government could get out of control if left unfettered. The Bill of Rights is in place to restrict what government can do. Not Give you Rights and Freedoms. It is up to the people to insure those Rights are Protected. Many brave men gave their lives to insure that a Tyrannical Government did not enslave the populous under the Boot of It’s Will. You all argue about who should do this and that for you. The whole while you kneel at the trough of compliance and complacency. The road to Freedom in this nation began on 4/19/1775. Not by the will of politicians but by the will of common men who decided to stand and fight rather than kneel and submit. How you choose to live is up to you. I will die a Free man. It may be today,next week or many days in the future. I will not die a subject of a Tyrannical Government regardless of who is in control…Keep Your Powder Dry.
There is only one solution to this but no one wants to talk about it.
But keep voting, contacting representatives who don’t give a shit about you while stabbing you in the back, and signing useless petitions that don’t mean jack shit…..that will show them!!
Trump’s been at it a little over a year, during which time he’s spent as much time and effort battling his own party as he has the left, and people still want to dump on him. Juxtapose obama on this, with democrats in control of every branch and he was unable to accomplish much in his first 2 years.
Trump will be reelected in 2020 by a larger margin than 2016. The impatience of people, particularly many who admit they want nothing to do with “politics” is ludicrous.
If you want better choices to vote for, get off your butt, back a better candidate with time, effort and money, and press your ideas in the arena of public opinion.
As for guns/SA issues? We still have the general public on our sides and could keep them there forever if some of our more outspoken worthies would learn to express themselves in a manner that the same gerneral public wouldn’t be ashamed or afraid of. It’s simple to adhere to one’s principles (or those of this nation) without resorting to insult, derision, and character assassination. Leave that to the Alynski-ites on the left. Hint- that is why right now, a majority of the public rate the MSM so low. They know they’re being lied to and the un-American bias is obvious. Why many of the outspoken critics of Trump, the US government, the general American population and most of the rest of America can’t figure this out and capitalize on it is still a mystery. We are being given an opportunity- stop looking for that one, big battle to win. There will always be people in this country who oppose any individual being able to take care of him/her/itself. 1900 or 2020. It still is far from the majority.
At a minimum Trump is, and always will be, a New York elite. However, before he was a Republic Trump was a member of the People’s Democratic Party. He may have run as a Republican and he may have known what to say to middle American voters to get elected but Trump could no more change his true political ideology than a leopard could change his spots.
I’ll take Trump over any Democrat 100% of the time. If you aren’t going to vote for him in 2020 then who? Liz Warren or Joe Biden??? Good luck with that crap you dish!ts, my God some of you people like cutting your own ignorant self righteous throats!
Well duh… They’re also big on 2A purity instead of taking all they help they can muster to get whatever gains can be had at any point in time. They’d rather throw hail mary’s straight to the end zone after getting a touchback on the kickoff and punting empty handed on the 4th down instead of going for first downs.
You will never get any 2A gains from any politician especially ones who will be president.
Quit deluding yourself.
The majority of the commenters on TTAG would make really lousy generals. They’re the embodiment of the saying about perfect being the enemy of good. They’d loan someone $100 and then refuse to accept five payments of $20 at a time from the person rather going empty handed getting nothing than getting repaid slower in five payments. If someone isn’t a 2A absolutist they don’t want them in the tent with them even though the non-absolutist can help the cause and regain lost ground.
The idea that they’re going to one day be able to snap their fingers and magically get he second amendment back to a state of absolutism is utterly and completely delusional. Apparently the gun grabbing leftists are smarter than they are. The gun grabbers knew they couldn’t snap their fingers and abolish the second amendment in one fell swoop, so they’ve waged a slow and steady battle taking whatever gains they could whenever they could get them.
The majority of the commenters here insist on 2A purity/absolutism instead of realizing that the slow and steady method works and can eventually get where they want to go. They deny reality and are holding out for that one fell swoop complete victory that will never come. Nothing is apparently better than something as long as you’re holding out for perfection.
But sure, I’m the delusional one…
Stereodude, you completely miss the reality of normalization and government tendency towards increased power (aka tyranny). Governments gain power over generations. After a couple of generations, the full exercise of an unalienable individual right is rarely restored incrementally. It usually takes massive civil disobedience or violence, or both.
This won’t be won incrementally.
“Not to mention directing the Department of Justice to find a way to ban bump fire stocks — a regulation that may open the door to restrictions on other gun parts and accessories and, *eventually, certain types of firearms*.”
I hate to tell you all I told you so but…
Mamaliberty………what the F*CK does your opinion matter?
We want neither your council nor your arms. May your chains rest lightly upon you…..or not.
At the end of the day no one’s opinion matters including yours. What matters is one’s actions. Be they wrapped in Patriotism or hidden in Cowardice. Each must choose how they live and yes die. On Your Feet or on Your Knees. When your day of death comes will you be satisfied with your life and the life you leave for your loved one’s. Don’t let it be filled with the regret of not doing what was necessary for them to Live Free of Tyranny. Remember any government powerful enough to give you everything you want is also powerful enough to take everything you have. Starting with your Freedom and the ability to remain Free. Keep Your Powder Dry…
Start signing petitions in favor of rights. All rights . Less chat more action .
Get involved .
Its kinda like pre voting on an issue . 1 issue at a time . once per person.
Read the rules.
Find or make one for your discussion .
No more wasting time arguing.
Scroll down on link to find others.
URL: Oppose Gun Control and Weapons Ban Legislation (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/oppose-gun-control-and-weapons-ban-legislation)
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permission to copy paste where ever you want to.
1 thing for sure about trump getting elected. It caused massive butt hurt to the snowflake set.
Poor, poor snowflakes. They’ll be in therapy for decades after trump is gone.
“On the positive side, President Trump wants the DOJ to help train armed teachers. And he still isn’t Hillary Clinton. Is that enough to maintain your support for President Trump, assuming he had it before?”
DOJ helping train armed teachers isn’t a good thing. I wasn’t a Trump supporter before and now I dislike Trump practically as much as I do Hillary. Simply eliminate GFZ. Don’t prevent people from carrying in schools.
DOJ helping arm teachers = nothing happening because there is no corresponding funding and it won’t be cheap because it is outside the scope of DOJ’s capacity.
Simply eliminate GFZ. Don’t prevent people from carrying in schools.
still Trump, as he got elected. But in 2020 (or rather the primaries) we gotta make a better choice. Cruz would be nice. Or any other conservative that actually believes in the constitution…
The problem is not that the gun Community back Donald Trump. The problem is the gun community did not invest in the future by creating and supporting rifle teams and Second Amendment education rights and responsibilities in public schools all across the United States.
I trust Donald Trump still. But the gun Community has not shown me that it is willing to invest in an education system that would ensure that future Generations understand their rights.
The “great Donald Trump” will not protect you from the homosexuals and others who have destroyed rifle teams at public schools in the past. You have to be willing to face these gay gun grabbers in public. And they don’t have to be gay gun grabbers. Some of them are black.
As a black gun owner I’m not afraid criticize and face any gun grabber. And I’m not concerned if they want to call me names. The proud white homosexual Tom Ammiano who has no children, made sure other people’s children had no rifle team or second amendment education in their schools.
“Ammiano was instrumental in getting rid of San Francisco’s High School competitive .22 cal rifle teams, and worked to put an end to the junior ROTC program in San Francisco’s High Schools. Ammiano supported the ban on allowing gun owners to carry an unloaded gun in public. “Whether a gun is loaded or not, it’s still an act of intimidation and bullying,” Ammiano said.”
He went to the LEFT on guns, giving our stupid ahole neighbors who needed a job could HAVE ROOM TO go RIGHT of him before the election.
IF THEY DON’T, THAT’S THEIR PROBLEM
AND THEY ALL NEED TO BE REPLACED.
HE’S DOING ABUSE OF PROCESS IN INVESTIGATING ABUSE OF AUTHORITY. ANYONE WHO DOESN’T THINK SO IS IN ON IT AND COMPLICIT.
What in the name of all that is holy is your deal? I know that its cold in Moscow, and you’ve gotta work, but jeez.
B E T T E R
T R O L L
At least you didn’t say I was wrong.
Right, wrong, verbal diarrhea makes it kind of hard to tell. Maybe Google Translate isn’t working for you.
If I could amend what I wrote, I would remove the “could HAVE” near the beginning.
The rest reads ~ ok, and is spot on in the analysis of both pieces of information it centers around.
If you can’t keep up, i’d say your comments are Projection. So, If you ain’t from here, ya can’t bitch if you’re not keeping up with current events.
Yeah, you go girl.
Everyone keeps say ‘Well, he isn’t Hillary” or “But but, the Supreme Court” like some other Republican would not have been able to beat Hillary or some other Republican wouldn’t have picked a great Supreme Court replacement.
Republicans completely messed up electing Trump. The guy is an idiot trust fund baby. He stands for absolutely nothing outside of the liberal politics that he was pushing over a decade ago. We had the chance to elect Cruz or Paul, aka, actual pro gun politicians that have a years long track record of being pro-gun. Remember this come 2020, Trump did nothing to loosen gun laws, in fact, he is creating more gun control. If someone runs against him in the primary we have a duty to get Trump out of office if there is an actual pro liberty/pro second amendment candidate.
You seem to think that during the general election there was another mythical conservative on the ballot. I seem to recall the choice was Trump or the filthy hatchet wound. If you have a picture of a different ballot, please provide a link. Thanks!!!
Cruz or Paul couldn’t beat trump in the run up. I fail to see how they would have beat the bitch if they couldn’t beat the donald.
The real question Americans should be asking is: Where will the successor to Trump in 2024 come from if we want another candidate who is not from the PC mainstream, which he was/is not. That was, and still is his attraction to Americans who want to see this nation restored to its place of leadership and respect, as well as economic strength. Once you get back to the normal pool of “candidates”, globalism is still the primary common bond regardless of party.
Seriously, I’d like to see Trump start grooming some people to fill positions in government who could move upward nationally over the next couple of years. And I don’t want to see a dynasty thing like the Clintons, Bushes or the apparent attempt by obama. Not sold on Jared or Ivanka, etc. Out of 330M people we ought to be able to find some good people who love this country and what it stands for.
This, again, is the reason people who claim they hate politics need to start taking notice, and if they feel they can do something better than someone/everyone else, stand up and run for office. Start small. You probably don’t need to convince people on this site, you need to take your proposals to the general public and sell them. Bitching, criticizing without offering viable, widely-acceptable alternatives is just dust in the wind.
If we ‘hate’ ‘our guy’, (and I’m not saying I do) just think of how bad we think of the aholes on the other side. Especially the voters.
I think we have seen the high point of the Trump presidency, which mostly amounted to hot air. I am looking forward to some primary challenge choices. If we don’t get them I am fine skipping the top of the ticket. Trump could win back my vote but it’s going to take more than empty promises.
We need a return to the Jeffersonian Democrat. That is how I believe. I am NOT for slavery, if the women want a vote, that if fine also. The real problem is that the Republican Party was and is for Federalism. I do not make the kind of money(neither do most of you), for the RP to help you.
If you have a business that nets a few million a year and/or you employ 15 or more people, the Republican party is your place. WE need to take our party back or start a new one, that actually supports the working person with a family – From the piece worker to supervising engineers and even Doctors who work for a company or corporation.
The breaking down of the old parties has fractured our country into many pieces. Even a good idea for a party(i.e. Libertarian Party) is already fractured because most of their followers have the ideas of the party from which they came tattooed on their backsides. The true working people of this country need to come together as one against the huge monster government that is killing freedom. We need to stop the pork, we need to set people free, rage against the machine of one world government, take the huge multinational corporations down to size, and break free from to 100 or so people that run the Western world.
What we have to remember is that gun owners everywhere want to have guns for themselves and people who are like minded. Most of these gun owners will just shake in fear when they see to object of their fright(or disgust) enjoying their right to firearms.
Do hardcore 1%’r bikers shoot at the same range the local LEOs do? Do Black Panthers shoot at the same range as the KKK does? How do we gun owners with these prejudges keep firearms from these nasty people? We use politics. Most of the politics used to restrict firearms from groups of people have been done by Republicans, so that is not the freedom party. The Dems(as they have stood in my life) are not a freedom party either.
We must break free of the 2 headed coin that is party politics in the US. How do we get a party that supports individualism and will break free from the octopus we call our federal government??
lol @ whiney bloggers expecting fifty years worth of shit to be overturned in the first year.
Yeah- most of the negative Trump comments around here are about like dealing with 5 year old kids. No understanding of politics, how to sway or affect public opinion positively for the Constitution, no patience, juvenile assessments. I’d say some are breathing in too many lead fumes from shooting indoors but I also wonder sometimes just how many rounds per week some of the posters shoot. Or rounds per year? Ever?
Before you condemn the President and republican members of congress…keep in mind that elections are won and lost by independents and moderates who are turning against gun rights after all of these high profile mass shootings.. It’s not Trump’s fault that they happened, but he still has to deal with the backlash from moderates who support 2A. If nothing at all is done, you can bet your ass you will see a dem in the white house and a dem majority in congress again. Next thing you know, you have another useless “assault weapon” and hi-cap mag ban. Hopefully, the steps that have been taken will stem the tide and get us back on firm footing.
Well, he better realize ‘gun control’ only serves to suck the wind out of his base. He played right into the libtard media’s hands with this last tragedy. Everything was already in place to stop that psycho, and it all failed. More laws isn’t the answer. And all that ‘due process later’ and ‘you’re afraid of the NRA’ shit will be hard to get out of my head. He better wise up. If he loses his base, he’s toast. He’s got some making up to do. And I’m a Trump fan too.
But yeah, look what’s on the other side before you bail on Trump. He aint Hillary is right.
And what “gun control” on a national basis has been passed under Trump? Bump stocks are entirely on ATF- they weren’t a thing until the obama ATF “allowed” them.
First and foremost let me make it clear that I voted for Trump in this election, but the moment that he signs any kind of gun control legislation is the moment that he loses my vote in 2020.
Having said that; in reading the comments here, it seems like a lot of people here are single issue voters, but putting a conservative on the Supreme Court, nominating a lot of conservative Lower Court judges, passing tax reform, killing the Obamacare individual mandate, getting us out of these stupid trade deals, bringing back jobs, and bringing down the unemployment rate and bringing up the labor force participation rate, taking a tough line with North Korea, being strong in the face of all the rest of the world powers, and funding our military the way that it should be funded are all huge pieces, and they are pieces that Trump has hit homeruns on.
Yes, I realize that without the Second Amendment the rest of the Constitution does not exist, that the Second Amendment is what enables the American citizen to have the power to enforce the Constitution on the government, that the second amendment puts the same force of arms in the hands of the American citizen that the government has and that, that ability is unique in the world, but I also realized that the 2nd Amendment is not the only important issue we face today.