Photos were released yesterday of two rifles found on the floor of Stephen Paddock’s 32nd floor Mandalay Bay hotel room. One of which was equipped with a bump fire stock which simulates full-auto fire. Now the ATF has confirmed that among the 23 guns found in the room, a dozen of them had been fitted with bump fire stocks.
Twelve bump fire stocks were found on firearms recovered from Paddock’s hotel room, said Jill Snyder, the special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ San Francisco field office.
Snyder said authorities are still determining which firearms were used in the shooting.
The ATF had determined that bump fire stocks are legal firearm accessories for semi-automatic rifles about six years ago and they’ve been widely available from various manufacturers ever since.
In the wake of the Las Vegas massacre and the new national attention on what once were, as our own Nick Leghorn called them, gimmicky range toys, could the ATF’s opinion on the legality of bump fire stocks change in the days and weeks ahead? As the Magic 8-Ball divines…
At this point, I don’t have much of a problem letting them have the bump-fires.
Unfortunately, that won’t be enough for them, next time around, they’ll just want more.
It’s what they do.
It’s ALL they do!
So, we give them *nothing*…
EDIT – On second thought, I’ll trade them bump-fires for de-regulating suppressors and ending the Hughes amendment…
I have a problem giving them anything. Don’t bend, don’t flex, give them nothing. Once you give them a single thing, they’re coming back for everything, even if they have to take it piece by piece. We can’t afford to give a single inch here.
I don’t own a bump fire, nor would I ever, but I am vehemently opposed to banning them because it follows the same line of flawed reasoning that brought us every other piece of legislation that was based around specific design features.
If the gun community condones a ban on slide fire stocks, we’re condoning the NFA, AWB, etc. The gun community has given up more than enough ground over the years, and when we consider that the [painfully obvious] ultimate goal of the Bloombergs and Feinsteins of the world is complete disarmament, then we have no reason to give up anything.
I don’t care for bump stocks either, but it would not have any real effect since you can 3d print one, so they would come back for more, emboldened. Also, if they go for bump stocks they will go for trigger cranks, also not a biggie for me, but they will also pull Gatling guns into it and with a multiyear Gatling Gun project in the garage unfinished, I would be really pissed. The problem is that this asshat was a millionaire and if bumpstocks were not available, he would have just bought a real machine gun or converted a gun, so there is no preventing someone like him. The issue is the next asshat is going to follow his pattern and cheap bumpstocks on the internet will make it easy. Eventually someone is going to go back to the McVeigh model and they will figure out that it isn’t a gun problem. Sounds like the asshat of the day almost went that way based on trace evidence in his vehicle.
3D print one? Have some imagination! You could make one with some scrap wood and JB Weld.
Or, just suppressors and reciprocity. I’d be cool with that and fuck Paul Ryan.
I love that you’re pulling from Reason. I mean that- no sarcasm here.
Got a source for that quote?
It’s all over multiple news outlets, citing the ATF.
For example, CNN (yeah, I know) says:
Push back should be 1000%.
It’s the same thing as with the 1st Amendment. It doesn’t matter how many aholes abuse their rights, your rights are not diminished, and no one should claim that they are. The right to Keep And Bear Arms is there to protect you from the very people who claim THAT YOU CAN NO LONGER HAVE THAT RIGHT.
I think in this day and age (ya know with drones, and Satellites that can see when your using your rest room in your home etc….., Do die hard gun owners/ lovers really think they would stand any chance against “a tyrannical government” armed with much higher/ deadly and billion dollar honed technology, ENGINEERED FOR BUNKER BUSTING AND KILLING GUERRILLA WARRIORS… (say an NRA fanatic locked in his own house or say… the Michigan Militia could unquestionably be decimated in mins/ a day). To say we all have a right to firearms to defend ourselves against “the powers that be/ a tyrannical government” is a completely defunct statement. Wake up, the firearm was invented in the 10th-12th century…. we’re in the 21st century. Infantry hardly holds a place in modern warfare and that should be kind of an indication..? You fight the authorities and “the tyrannical government” with rifles, handguns and pipe bombs. Let me know what you think of their bullet proof APC, remote controlled .50 cal and bomb bots. I mean I get it, the gun is your only way of thinking your safe but….. WAKE UP… People want guns to defend themselves against themselves.. .THATS IT. What, are gun owners all going to unite and…… what? Turn the country into a Terminator style war zone without robots…. Wow this country is scary.
That’s the thinking of the British government, from about ~ nearly 230 years ago.
You sound like you think we’re up against the Terminator or something. We are governed by “men” those men are your fing stupid neighbors who needed a job. They all sleep somewhere, an you can easily f up enough sh_t of EVERYONES to make it really expensive proposition.
We have sh_t asses in our government right now that ARE PRESSING FOR IT.
Why? Because they are MF POS Globalists GETTING PAID TO DO SO AND hoping to pick up some of the spoils after. But upending our government would only open the books on the rest of the world, and there’s a lotta hell that could get dished out in short order.
You also sound as though you think it’s only now being considered. That is WHOLLY WRONG.
“Let us suppose a small State which is involved in a contest with a very superior power, and forsees that with each year its position will become worse: should it not, if War is inevitable, make use of the time when its situation is furthest from the worst? Then it must attack, not because the attack in itself ensures any advantages- it will rather increase the disparity of Forces- but because this State is under the necessity of either bringing the matter completely
to an issue before the worst time arrives, or of gaining at least in the meantime some advantages which it may hereafter turn to account. This theory cannot appear absurd. But if this small State is quite certain that the enemy will advance against it, then, certainly, it can and may make use of the defensive against its enemy to procure a first advantage; there is then at any rate no danger of losing time. If , again, we suppose a small State engaged in
War with a greater, and that the future has no influence on their decisions, still, if the small State is politically the assailant, we demand of it also that it should go forward to its object.
If it has had the audacity to propose to itself a positive end in the face of superior numbers, then it must also act, that is, attach the foe, if the latter does not save it the trouble. Waiting would be an absurdity; unless at the moment of execution it has altered its political resolution, a case which very frequently occurs, and contributes in no small degree to give Wars an indefinite character.” (Clausewitz [Rappaport Translation], “On War” page 398)”
Ban bumpfire stocks and the psychopaths will install lightning links or whatever. Like everything else, bans don’t keep the criminals from finding a way to do it anyway.
….and then binary triggers, etc. Once the ball starts rolling down hill, it’s hard to stop it. I say fight to keep everything possible legal.
I absolutely agree with the slippery slope analogy. But purely politically if we throw the Dems this bone -regulate bump stocks like other registry items – to buy some time for POTUS to pad the Federal judiciary, get an additional 2A Supreme appointed, and give a little cover to pro 2A candidates for the midterm elections, it mght be worth it. Then when the timing is better we can start to use a more 2A court system to roll back some of these ridiculous infringements.
“Throw them a bone” and they’ll come back for the whole leg. Give them nothing! Don’t give an inch
“throw the Dems this bone”
I won’t throw the Dems a hand grenade.
The trouble is that it will probably wind up being phrased in a way so as to allow for future infringement in the future. One can imagine it affecting standard collapsible stocks if they refer to “A stock that slides back and forth along the buffer tube” or something similar.
Remember AR pistols and how the ATF tried to use them to ban M855 surplus as “armor-piercing ammunition”?
In principle, I think bumpfire stocks are a dumb way to waste money and ammo that puts already-embattled outdoor ranges at risk of liability suits and that could be used for just as much fun with in less silly gun-related endeavors, but I’m loath to give ATF more buttons to play with next time the dems have power.
Lets face cold hard facts. The majority of Republicans never wanted this Silencer bill and the mass shooting by Paddock was actually just exactly the excuse they were looking for to scuttle it forever. Now they have a way out and do not have to face a big fight with the Dems in Congress over it along with all of the bad publicity they would have gotten over it in the Media which would have portrayed them as people who had gone completely over to the Para Military Lunatic Fringe. Most Repub’s are simply breathing a sigh of relieve its finally off the table for good and anyone who thinks they will ever re-introduce it is trying to hear himself whistle inside of the latest Global Warming Hurricane.
It’s kind of ironic that the people screaming about gun control are from the party that runs the show in most of the “gun violence” prone areas.
It’s not as cut and dry as that. The ATF rules still need someone in the EB to sign off on them. And whomever that is works for Donald Trump. Trump can’t waffle on gun control otherwise, as Bannon said, the base will go nuclear. Trump dearly wants to be a 2-term president. He won’t if he walks back on his pro-gun stance, even a bit.
All CBS wanted (and got) was confirmation any device on the rifles used made the rifle “more deadly”.
This is simply the beginning of an accessory witch hunt (based on “lethality”). If they can’t ban rifles, they are certainly going to try to strip them down to the point any firearms available will be bolt action bb guns.
The only counter argument possible is to find any cases where bumpstops were successfully used in a defensive or DGU scenarios to illustrate that the device serves a greater good.
In the future I would refrain from any sort of casual references to “toys” or “fun” when talking about guns in the future. Our only stance right now and in any future murders is to be polite, responsible, empathetic, and concentrate on the real problem and why we own guns = because we know evil will strike again and we care about other people, not just ourselves in this fight. Our message should be that armed good guys save lives and we are here with everyone standing against evil people.
We will never win this if we keep separating ourselves from the pack as “gun owners”. We need to remind people that we’re just like them, part of the community.
Point of clarification, my comment about certain topics to refrain from talking about only applies to speaking to people outside the “gun culture”.
Remember that anyone not in “the know” perceives any firearm as something that can be used against them. So that’s the mindset we’re dealing with.
While it seems redundant to justify, firearms, like cars, need to be seen as a greater good. The misuses do not outweigh the lawful uses. They save more lives than they take. Every accessory will be judged by these merits. Will it make users and the community safer with X accessory?
The entire point of Paddock’s shooting spree is glaringly clear.
1. Paddock wanted to deprive those who disagreed with him politically of their very lives.
2. Paddock calculated that an act this horrific would have a political tipping point effect, depriving those with whom he disagreed politically of the right to bear arms and eventually the right to free speech, which is ultimately underpinned by the 2nd Amendment.
We should not give a fraction of a millimeter on this. Our rights under the US Constitution are not negotiable.
How did this guy get 23 rifles into his hotel room without anyone noticing? Did he break them all down? Still, that would take up a lot of space, even if he just crammed them all on top of each other in large suitcases. Plus, he had a bunch of video equipment, right? Somebody had to wonder about this guy & all his luggage. Or maybe not, this is the 21st century after all.
I think if somebody hated guns, the gun culture, and the 2A to the point that they were willing to do absolutely anything to get guns outlawed in the US, that shooting up a large concert (or any other outdoor event) would be the best way to go about it. What better to motivate the politicians & citizens alike? And, just to add insult to injury, shooting up a crowd that is most likely conservative and pro-2A would be a bonus for this hater. This whole thing seems contrived to me, and I’m really not one to think “conspiracy” when these sorts of things happen. But there are too many things about this event that do not add up.
I’m sure you’ve all seen the various videos popping up on social media (which I have sworn off for the foreseeable future) that appear to show gunfire coming from the 4th floor, and another window smashed out a few doors down from Paddock’s room on the 32nd floor. And today I saw some headline about Paddock wiring $100,000 to the Philippines a few days ago. Lots of questions. No good answers, other than keep your powder dry & fight for our rights, I guess.
If you can t ban service to minorities then you should not able to ban lawfull gun carries bei private citzizen !!
Do this should an felony (for disarming employers too) !!
Don’t confuse the Left? Hiw about nor confusing the right???!!!
When asked by reporters aboard Air Force One about whether he was open to a discussion on gun control, the Trump said, “at some point perhaps that will come. That’s not today.” Uh huh. Dealmaker-in-Chief sounds like he’s ready to snuggle up with his liberal buddies Schumer and Pelosi again, anything to make a deal.
Then you have Danny Tarkanian, GOP Senate candidate in Nevada taking on GOP Senator Heller in the primary. On Monday, he schooled MSNBC’s Chris Hayes on the futility of more federal gun laws. By Tuesday, he had backpedalled. The “strong supporter of Trump” (I believe it!) was back ar MSNBC, this time with Craig Melvin, promising to consider gun control legislation if elected:
“Yeah [I will do something about gun control]. I will go there and try to find whatever best solution we can, gun control or otherwise.” Tge paid some lip service to the Constitution, which ge obviously doesn’t respect, given his flip flopping on infringement.
There’s your GOP, folks, led by Trump. Told ya so!
Knock $100 off the MSRP and maybe. Can get a double stack CZ75 compact for about the same price and probably higher build quality, DA/SA (and for those of you that cry about that double action pull, you can carry cocked and locked), double the magazine capacity, and phenomenal ergonomics.
I have an AR equipped with a bump fire stock, and RF’s description of the device was spot on.
Moreover, I’ve learned how to bump fire my M1A without any device whatsoever. The first time was an accident, but I practiced the technique. It’s gotten so easy to do that I have to make a special effort not to bump fire it.
Somebody had to explain bump fire to the public and media. I’m glad it was one of us.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojjcTv3QAbI
Shall we ban all woodwork as well…
Mr. Taylor, I think we have similar body type at 6’1 and around 190ish lbs, do you have any tips on conceal carry a full sized 1911?
Let’s be honest here. Police and S.W.A.T. did not charge into the attacker’s room because they were deeply (and rightfully) concerned that the attacker would waste them either with gunfire or explosives. So they waited an hour before going in. And during that time, they probably tried to insert a camera and/or microphone into the room to determine whether the attacker was still functioning. Hopefully, they also tried to evacuate anyone from adjacent rooms in case the attacker detonated a serious amount of explosives or in case stray bullets zipping through walls would not be a danger.
I am NOT disparaging police for waiting so long to go in: that could easily be a suicide mission which would NOT incapacitate the attacker.
Situations like this call for simple explosives. Send a robot up to the door which makes a hole and lobs a “civilian friendly” grenade into the room. End of event. If there are hostages/friendlies in the room, too bad.
Note: the “civilian friendly” grenade that I am envisioning might have no shrapnel at all and rely on simple concussion to incapacitate the attacker. And when I say concussion, I mean serious concussion much more powerful than flash-bangs.
Does anyone realize how long it takes to put all that gear on and get an APC’s Diesel engine warmed up…
Do y’all even operate?
Look, it’s not just bump stocks and binary triggers, watch for the language used in any upcoming bill. I think they will go after ANYTHING that “increases the rate of fire” — maybe your Timney 3.5lb drop in trigger can become unkosher. These effers are going to cast as wide a net as possible to punish gun folks.
Wait until the media catches on to the whole SBR vs Pistol Brace foolishness. How do you think that will hold up to mainstream scrutiny? We can say goodbye to our pistol braces as well.
We were so close to getting the Hearing protection Act to the Senate. Days away. Now…Very upsetting.
I dentify the threat, evacuate the floor and go in guns blazing. Shoot first ask questions later. Worried about a boobie trap, don’t use the front door. In Afganistan they never use the front door. Blow a hole from the adjacent room and funnel in. C’mon guys this is operating 101.
Not a fan of rappelling in through the broken out window from above?
So if they didn’t attempt entry for an hour because the shooting had already stopped… Why did Paddock stop shooting? Did all of his guns jam or malfunction? Did he run out of ammo? And at what point did he shoot himself?
Shot the security guard who initially knocked, realized the jig was up and put a round in his head.
He was already approaching room temperature when SWAT went in an hour later.
^ Total conjecture on my part, based on limited available details.
You can keep saying a bump-fire isn’t practical, but the results of the Vegas shooter show otherwise. It was rather effective at laying down near automatic fire. He wounded 104 people, and another 400 were injured from running away/trample. From using a bumpfire stock at long range.
we really dodged a bullet when hillary lost
all you never trumper 2nd amendment supporters should realize this now
i cant remember the last time a mass shooting made this little sense after 3 days
something isnt right
something smells funny
even my wife who is pretty anti conspiracy theorist thinks theres something way bigger going on that were not being told
nows not the time to go weak in the knees
the left didnt go soft on the 14th amendment after kermit gosnell or the project veritas videos
we shouldnt after this either
if the 2nd amendment goes away so do the rest in very short order
see: venezuela
this is really for real
right now
its happening
make no mistake
our countrymen are accusing us nra and 2nd amendment supporters of being terrorists and accessories and complicit in what happened in las vegas
this could be our last stand
man up
everybody
Rolling Stone should stick to what they know best – making up fake college rape stories.
Well written, especially the last sentence.
They’re ridiculously easy to make if you don’t want to pay 200+ dollars for one. There are videos all over youtube that show you how to make your own with a few parts from Lowes or Home Depot.
Making them illegal won’t stop criminals from making them.
Well, Mr. Hawk, if I’m ever unlucky enough to be in Tom’s River again, I’ll have to stop into your shop and wish you well with that wonderful attitude.
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Sounds like Defense Distributed needs to get some 3D printer plans out on the web quick. Congress can ban all they want, won’t mean a thing once anyone can print one anytime they want.