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Over at, commentator and CCW license holder Terminal Lance called his local po-po about the legalities of shooting a dog. The constable told Lance that the canine eliminator would face the same investigation “as if it were a person you shot.” The castle doctrine’s “no duty to retreat” caveat wouldn’t apply “because the dog has no way of knowing what it is doing is wrong.” Huh? The cop also said Lance should “expect a GIANT pain in the ass if this happens.” Two words for those who expect to encounter bad dogs: Kimber Pepperblaster (or similar). While I’m still contemplating the benefits of carrying pepper spray for two-legged aggressors, this super-slim Kimber is the best way to defend yourself against wolf descendants without the danger, expense and hassle of a ballistic solution.

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  1. “The castle doctrine’s “no duty to retreat” caveat wouldn’t apply “because the dog has no way of knowing what it is doing is wrong.”
    Uhhh. No. Whether or not I feel my life is in danger has nothing to do with whether or not the goblin has a “way of knowing what it is doing is wrong” and everything to do with… whether or not I feel my life is in danger.

      • +1, and then some. Not to slam all LEO, but so many either cannot interpret the law accurately or don’t even know the law. I can’t tell you how many LEO’s do not know what Castle is. Never even heard of it. Your best defense, (especially useful if you have a smartphone with a note taking app) copy some of the laws from the books that you think may be in contention by a know-it-all and keep it with you.Especially carry law. A case in point: In Kentucky, businesses cannot keep you from keeping a carry weapon in your car. I see buisinesses all the time posting, the “no firearms in cars” notices. Here, you cannot prohibit the individual who does so. So, when I see a sign, I get a post it note with the KRS number for reference and put it on the sign. Furthermore, you can respectfully ask the officer to look up KY KRS 527.020 (just an example using my state) while they are trying to decide your fate.

    • This.

      If it’s rabid, it has ABSOLUTELY no way of knowing what it’s doing is wrong, but it is STILL a massive danger to the local population, and MUST be put down.

  2. It isn’t just the police who have strange notions about the law. I just went to traffic court to contest a speeding ticket I received when passing another vehicle on a two lane road. Apparently, it is still speeding if you exceed the posted speed limit, even while passing. The radar got me just as I pulled back into my lane and the police cruiser was on coming (mobile radar). The judge mumbled something about if we let one off, we’ll have to … and his voice drained away. The cop said I didn’t say anything when he stopped me, concerning why I was speeding. Right. I just sat there, yeah. All I can hope is that there is such a thing as Karma and that a serial liar will collect enough of the bad stuff to eventually get what they have coming. I could see I wasn’t going to get anything, but I did learn the usual lesson, tickets are about revenue, period. Justice is a little bird…to paraphrase Mr. Spock. After watching a few minor criminal cases while waiting for the traffic offenses to be judged, I confirmed that you do not want to be in court, for anything, if you can possibly help it.

    • Actually, there is very little case law to support or refuse the argument that you are not acting in accordance with law if you excede the posted speed limit while conducting a passing manuever on a two-lane road. There is a 1959 case from the Maine Supreme Court that upheld the speeding ticket under those circumstances. On the other hand, some states (Washington, for example) have specifically addressed the issue in their statutes by stating that you are allowed to exceed the posted limit by a reasonable amount in order to execute the passing maneuver.

    • As Joe Grine noted, it depends on the jurisdiction. Most states have “per se” speed limits, which means that traveling in excess of the posted limit is illegal, period, and there’s no defense for it. A few states have “prima facie” speed limits. This means that exceeding the posted limit is only strong evidence — enough to prove the case — that driver was going too fast. The driver can defeat the speeding ticket if he can prove that the speed he was traveling was reasonable and prudent. There are also a couple of “hybrid” states, where posted limits are “prima facie” but traveling, say, 70 in a 55 zone, is illegal per se (meaning there’s no defense for it).

    • What I wanted to say to the Judge was “You know and I know that everyone who passes on a two lane road exceeds the speed limit. That’s the real world. That’s where real people live. Whatever you say goes here, but just don’t dare to tell me it’s anything but bullshit!”. That’s what I kept to myself.

    • “Apparently, it is still speeding if you exceed the posted speed limit, even while passing.”

      That’s why it’s called the speed LIMIT and not a speed suggestion. You broke the law now suck it up like a man.

  3. the animal rights people are crazy, there are a lot of them , and the have completely klugde up the laws in most places.

    that said there is no reason to ever as a cop for legal advice because they are not held to it . if they advise you wrong, it will not help you in court. they will tell you the scariest answer they can in most cases.

    A couple of the city’s finest showed up. at a church public safety meeting and told my elderly mother and other women that they should not own guns because a criminal could take it from them and shoot them with it.

  4. I own one of these Kimber Pepper-blasters , but I’ve never fired it. At $40 a pop, it seems a bit expensive just to “test.” On the other hand, I would hate to rely on something I have not trained with. Has anyone seen the “trainers” for these?

  5. I once had a run-in with a dog that was attacking and fighting with my leashed dog. After foolishly trying to separate the combatants, and getting my left hand severely bitten, I pulled out my pocket knife and stabbed the attacking canine. Didn’t even slow it down. However, the dog required veterinarian treatment, where it was noted that the wounds ‘didn’t look like dog bites’. No police involvement, and the incident was never repeated.

  6. As an animal lover, I would be very reluctant to use lethal force on a dog. Bear spray or pepper spray seems to me to be more humane and less final. As a (former) avid cyclist, I had a few run-ins with Fido. Dismounting and interposing the bike between me and canis familiaris usually did the trick. In the rare case when it didn’t, I found a water pistol with a weak solution of ammonia and water was highly persuasive with no lasting harm to the dog or to me.

    And never ask a cop what your rights are. According to most po-po, you don’t have any.

    • I completly agree with ammonias effectivness ad a canine deterrant.
      Although I used to use a 409 bottle filled with strong ammonia, myself.
      formaldehyde works well, too, but is harder to handle safely.

      As for there being no lasting effects, I’m not so sure about that,
      for ammonia or peppergas.
      I think both may have some lasting effects on the canines sense of smell.

      As for formaldehyde, I think that it’s a pretty safe bet that some lasting
      damage will result.

      Either will produce a pavlovian response of fear in a surprisingly
      small number of uses.

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