A few weeks ago I told a group of young men playing hoops in the alley behind my house that they are welcome to hang out, but they needed to mind their language. I reminded them that being guests in someone’s neighborhood meant not yelling obscenities at the top of their lungs. I’m an easygoing person. It turned out well as they more or less toned it down. That incident came to mind when I read this story: “According to police, Owens fussed at some kids playing basketball in the middle of Delmar Drive about 8:30 Saturday night. They say the kids left and a group of adults returned, armed with everything but the kitchen sink”. . .
What (Owens’ sister Ashley) Parker says happened next could make the fallout from the brutal beating even worse. As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said “Now thats justice for Trayvon.” Trayvon Martin is the unarmed teenager police say was shot and killed February 26 by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman in Samford, Florida (sic).
Many of our fellow citizens have lost sight of the fact that one of the great attributes of America is the rule of law. From the liberal elite to neighborhood assholes, too many people are willing to try a man not in a court of law, but in the court of public opinion.
We are responsible only for our own crimes. The idea that beating a man in Alabama could bring justice for Trayvon is utterly alien to me. Who raised these idiots? Who taught them how civic life in America works?
I am not willing to let my neighborhood be overrun by ill-tempered, ill-behaved people. Knowing what I know from this unfortunate guy in Mobile, I still would have told those kids to tone it down, but maybe next time I should switch from the 6+1 DB9 to the 10+1 M&P right afterwards. Just in case.
“but maybe next time I should switch from the 6+1 DB9 to the 10+1 M&P”
Or, y’know, have both close at hand. New York reload, and all that.
Or a long gun…
…and both handguns. 😈
Or a grenade launcher…
…and a long gun
…and both handguns.
We could do this all day, gentlemen.
Or an attack helicopter…
…and a grenade launcher
…and a long gun
…and both handguns. 🙂
You can buy a 40mm FLARE gun that will do the same thing with a few “mods” to the flair shells, just don’t get caught!
You will be looking at a weapons of mass destruction charge, at the least!
Stick with legal guns, they are plenty leathal….for now!!!!
This is why you carry two guns.
The 38. snubbie for small problems.
The 45. magnum for everything else!
ACP or .44 magnum?
.45 Winchester Magnum perhaps?
No derek, it is a 6-shot revolver that shoots 45.longcolt and 454 casull bullets in the 300 grain range called a raging judge magnum.
If you ever have to take down a car, truck, grizzly, or moose, your all set.
I like to call it my gun that can kill anything from a mouse to a house!
In a “mob” situation, the power of the rounds should be able to give you a few twofers or more!
The sound of 454 casull bullet being fired from a revolver is just plain scary!
Standing to the side when someone else is firing, you can feel the shockwave and the flash is blinding in the daytime, nevermind nighttime!
sorry but that’s still only 11 or 12 rounds before reloading (revolvers i might add).
a single xdm with 9mm+p would have been more useful here.
Yes elcheecho, a semi-auto would be much better.
Thank you Mr. after the fact.
The whole point of this debate is NOT to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and if, by no fault of your own you or a loved one is in mortal danger, then it is up to you to defend yourself.
If everyone who is a law abiding citizen would put their conceal carry gun on every day just like their pants, then most crimes would stop because the criminals know that EVERYONE is now armed.
Any .454 casull revolver is capable of firing .45 colt, the raging judge just adds the disadvantage of a crazy long cylinder that destroys accuracy.
I will give you credit for not using wimpy .410 slugs or buckshot in your judge. Plenty of people who carry those things seem to think the dinky .410 slug is more effective than a good .45 colt self defense round.
now that would have made the news…..
What happened to the “we don’t know what happened; we weren’t there” everybody was saying at the start of this Martin/Zimmerman business? Shouldn’t we just “let the legal system do its job”? Or is the situation different because there was a (credible) witness this time? Just trying to get the proper mindset straight.
Regardless, this is a sad, sad reflection on our country and things are only going to get worse. Let’s hope some good can come out of this – more folks exercising their God-given right to bear arms. If he’d had so much as a Derringer this probably wouldn’t have happened.
Utterly disgusting, I have the same problem in my cul-de-sac. Except these kids were up at 12:30 am and woke me up during a week day. I turned my light on and stepped outside and they stopped. If they hadn’t I would not have spoken to them I would have went to their parents.
Kids of this nature tend to add BS to the story when they go run home to their parents. So these kids probably said something like he was cussing at us and called us the N word.
Parker says one of them said “Now thats justice for Trayvon.”
I’ve heard a lot of BS stories in my life, and this sounds just too much like one of them. Right up there with “acid is groovy; kill the pigs,” it’s an “outsider’s” take on what “one of them” might say.
Word, brother. Puck the fo-leese! 😉
Except that the camera man posted the video and the “justice for travon” line.
Wait, where? I’m sure the police could really use a video of Mr. Owens’ beating, or even the “justice for Trayvon” line being spoken. Care to share, or are you just repeating what somebody (news anchor) said based on what he heard somebody else (Owens’ sister) say she heard from a third person (one of the assailants)?
Traye, you are thinking about the Baltimore Beatdown, not the Mobile Massacre. The guy who filmed that did post that comment on Twitter.
I’ve heard a lot of BS stories in my life, and this sounds just too much like one of them.
I very much hope you are right.
Not a hate crime, no not at all. The perpetrators were beings of non-racism without physical capability of racism because of a special skin coating.
Are there protests planned in the area calling for justice in this case?
I didn’t effing think so.
Now now… we have to wait for the media not to cover it (oops, they already kinda did) and there has to be, what, a month waiting period?
No one jumped on the Martin bandwagon until after the story went viral. Make the same thing happen here. If there is enough talk about this online, the media will follow. It really is about the money, and they will pimp whatever will bring in an audience.
Over/under on hate crime charges?
I am not a believer that any group is (and that includes the groups I belong to) superior by race, ethnicity, religion, political values, etc. I admit that I feel somewhat safer, when on the streets, living in a medium-big sized city whose majority demographic population is a group that I belong too. I don’t stand out to a mob (or most mobs) as a nail that needs to be hammered down.
No surprise in the slightest. I have trouble with the young men cutting across my corner lot, walking right up to the house, yelling obscenities at all hours, and being sure to leave their trash behind.
Rather than try and talk to them, and run into a situation like this, my plan is to simply build the largest legally allowed in my area fence. Talking to them gets you nowhere, except maybe assaulted by a mob.
I am a minority in my neighborhood, and I fear the day they decide it’s time for “justice for Trayvon” in my neighborhood.
So, revolver guys, still okay with just five shots?
Yes I am Carlos.
I have six shots that will scare the crap out of anyone with either a snubbie or an M&P for a back-up.
If im anywhere near my car, Mr. Mossberg will come into play.
If I am at my home, well, lets just say that the “mob” had better like running into a sustained hail of gunfire!
Yes because as soon as a gun goes off they scatter like cockroaches.
By that theory, all you need is a starter pistol.
That has worked for some people. Fireworks too. These are not sophisticated dolts being dealt with.
And a latte worked for Caleb Giddings. In the best case scenario, you don’t need a gun at all. This guy definitely didn’t experience a best case scenario.
Yeah – I am. I pocket carry or ankle carry a J frame and have a XD subcompact IWB. When it’s in the pocket, I guarantee I can get a few well placed shots off before anyone would know what happened. Pocket carrying revolvers puts you at a huge advantage….
Just one more reason why law-abiding people need to be armed.
This story makes me sad.
This story makes me sad.
No surprise. This is likely happening more than we know across the country and not being reported. This is why any sane person carries. It’s only going to get worse, there’s no stopping the slippery slope this country is on.
If, when verbally confronting a group of people, you honestly feel the need to holster a gun with more capacity “just in case”, you are a morally bankrupt person.
I mean, you would initiate contact with a group of people, just because they are swearing, with the intention of using deadly force if they escalate?
You might be legally justified in such a situation, but I believe that killing someone because you can’t tolerate loud swearing is wrong.
God gave you that stuff between your ears, use it! Start here:
These guys have some good stuff to say about de-escalating violent situations, starting with DON’T CREATE VIOLENT SITUATIONS BY CONFRONTING MOBS OF SWEARING TEENS!
Ah, non-intervention. Remember when we tried that on an international level? Worked like a champ then, too. [/sarc]
This isn’t international politics. Self defense is all about keeping my blood inside my body where it belongs. Confronting a mob for any reason is exactly the wrong way to do that.
Believe it or not, nations interact in exactly the same way people do. There are only two ways to convince someone to do something: use of reason or threat of force. The same is true of nations.
Or, sell them arms, or give them money, or defend their borders, or initiate greater trade, or give them advanced technologies . . .
Forgive me. You are indeed correct that it should have been use of *coercion or threat of force.
No, no; you’ve got it all wrong! Contact is initiated with any person/group at any time for any number of reasons. Even if it’s the most courteous interaction in the world you must still be prepared to defend yourself, period. Has nothing necessarily to do with the folks involved; just a decision in general.
That said, if you’re going up to a group of folks that may possibly harbor bad feelings toward you AND be able to act on them in a dangerous manner (has nothing to do with the ethnicity/background, just physical capability) it’s a smart idea to be ready to defend yourself at a moment’s notice.
Also, confronting a mob may be a bad idea generally but it’s up to the individual to make that decision. Lots of folks make risky bets all the time; some pay off.
Well, I don’t believe that it is moral to make a risky bet that could end in someone else getting killed because I don’t like them swearing!
This site sure does have alot of people!
I remember when only 2 or 3 people would comment over several days time.
Caleb & company should be proud.
Well done to all who work & comment on this site, you guys got a winner here!
Each man’s morality is his own; you’re obliged to follow the dictates of your conscience.
Can’t speak with too much authority here one way or another; I’m a bit of a misanthrope and not at all inclined to put the lives of hoodlums above my own.
Depends entirely on how the contact is initiated.
There need to be standards. Politely asking someone to moderate their language is not an invitation to a throw-down. If they ignore you, you call the police and let them handle it, but some things out to be within the purview of regular people and asking folks (politely) to cut down on the f-bombs is one of them. In the author’s case, that is all it took. Basketball continued to be played and he was able to go back to enjoying the quiet peace of his property. No cops were called, no punches were thrown.
Even unarmed, it’s not unreasonable to make a request of another, politely.
Yeah, a polite request was all it took. Everyone acted in a perfectly reasonable manner, which is where Tim should have left off the anecdote. My issue comes from the fact that Tim wrote that he would “arm up” next time he did that, “just in case”.
Still, if you conceal, then how would anybody know? If you conceal, then they won’t escalate because you have a gun. And if they do escalate, or run home to daddy and let him do it, then you will be ready to end the situation in a damn near instant.
I’m a bit of a misanthrope and not at all inclined to put the lives of hoodlums above my own.
I do not want to mischaracterize my neighbor’s son’s friends as hoodlums. Pottymouths, as it turns out, but not hoodlums. And, on balance, they were sufficiently respectful of me and my wishes.
Yeah, a polite request was all it took. Everyone acted in a perfectly reasonable manner, which is where Tim should have left off the anecdote. My issue comes from the fact that Tim wrote that he would “arm up” next time he did that, “just in case”.
Honestly, I struggled for 20 minutes or so deciding if I wanted to wade into a potential shitstorm. I thought about it, then prayed about it, then thought some more. It turned out OK, and it turns out these guys were not assholes. That said, I reflect on my actions to see if there is anything I could have done better or smarter. Reading the story from Mobile made me think about my situation.
I don’t believe you did anything wrong, Tim, either what you did or what you wrote. People are just stupid sometimes, and 10 on 1 can seem like good odds to a pack of predators — not that these kids were predators, but the ones in Mobile sure seem to have been.
The idea of Home Carry has been pretty much legitimized in my mind by the many articles posted here. Home Carry extends to the backyard. You weren’t talking about putting an AR-15 on a single-point, loading up a rack of mags, putting on a helmet and Wileys and then stepping out to talk to a group of potential hostiles, you were musing about which CCW (emphasize concealed) option might be better for a social situation that suddenly becomes antisocial.
I think Buzzy is overreacting. A little.
You’re certainly within your rights to ask people to quiet down or get off your lawn, but in both cases the same question can be asked: Is it really worth starting a confrontation which could end with someone injured or dead?
I am not prepared to just sit back and let bad behavior go unchallenged. I think on balance, it was healthy for those boys to hear an older man ask reasonably and rationally to cool their jets. How the hell else are they going to learn?
Civil society has to be maintained and nurtured. Parameters established, norms hewn to. We cannot expect people to just automatically do the right thing.
I look at it this way, at least I am not in the Argonne forest being shelled by Nazis in record breaking cold, suffering from frostbite and malnutrition.
@Buzzy: If this is really that simple, why would a cop need to walk up to a traffic offender with his sidearm? Certainly if he feels the encounter might end up escalating to the point where he’d need a weapon, he should just let the traffic violator go. And we should cower in our homes and let people run roughshod over our property. Then they move from our yards to our porches and where does it stop? The alternative is to ask them to leave. But according to you, no cautionary protection is warranted. Better to end up like the guy in the top of this post.
A law enforcement officer approaching a criminal (speeding is against the law) is escalating the situation as part of his job.
(As a side note I think that the way that traffic violations are handled is bad policy, but I really don’t have a solution. I just know that current policy breeds cynicism toward the law and law enforcement among otherwise law abiding citizens.)
These teens that Tim confronted weren’t on his property. You’re certainly within your rights to ask people to quiet down or get off your lawn, but in both cases the same question can be asked: Is it really worth starting a confrontation which could end with someone injured or dead?
If you were referring to me, then yes, they were on my property. I’m on a corner lot, and rather than walk streets or sidewalks it is popular to cut an extreme diagonal through my yard (even getting up to the house itself). I usually do not confront because of stories like the article. I prefer my solution of saving extra change to ultimately build a fence where I legally can.
My other concern of whenever there may be another “justice for Trayvon” was more generic, such as when I am not on my property (such as lawfully walking on a public sidewalk).
If you were referring to me, then yes, they were on my property. I’m on a corner lot, and rather than walk streets or sidewalks it is popular to cut an extreme diagonal through my yard (even getting up to the house itself). I usually do not confront because of stories like the article. I prefer my solution of saving extra change to ultimately build a fence where I legally can. My other concern of whenever there may be another “justice for Trayvon” was more generic, such as when I am not on my property (such as lawfully walking on a public sidewalk).
Dude, it wasn’t the teens. It was their parents who came looking for trouble. So when a mob comes and beats on your door because you asked their children not to scream profanity, did YOU cause the situation? Did you really kill someone for swearing?
I guess I wasn’t clear on which situation I was talking about. I’m referring to Tim’s situation, not the guy who was attacked in the news story.
I’m in agreement with you as far as the news story goes. If 20 people come to your home to beat you to death then light ’em up. I wouldn’t lose much sleep over pulling the trigger in that type of situation.
If you’re referring to me, they were on the property (hence my solution of saving my extra change to eventually build a fence).
And I generally don’t confront, because of reasons exactly like what happened to the man in the article.
I was referring to the author’s anecdote about the teens in the alley behind his house.
Building a nice big fence sounds like a marvelous solution to your problem.
One cannot have a civil society by falling back behind ramparts and ignoring the world.
I should mention for the readers that don’t know the author, that in addition to an extremely friendly disposition he does posses formidable strategic deterrence.
Aka … if I cloned myself twice I would still be hesitant to get into a brawl with said author.
I would of enjoyed watching this exchange.
Is it really worth starting a confrontation which could end with someone injured or dead?
For the record, I do not shoot people over swearing.
I also would not get into a confrontation if I thought there was a greater than 5% chance if it going sideways. I carry a firearm because of that .0001% chance things could go sideways.
I may be morally bankrupt, but I don’t think talking to misbehaving teens is a confrontation. To their credit, their behavior improved and they took my rebuke well.
To my credit, I follow the Good Book’s advice about a soft answer turning away anger. By not being an asshole, I got what I wanted – a more peaceful gathering, and the got to keep playing hoop.
That said, a mob beatdown is not a proper response to a guy being an asshole.
You forgot to add that the BLACK mob yelled ““This is Justice For Trayvon.”
As I stated in another comment, I believe the police would find audio/video evidence of any kind – including the comment you mention being made – invaluable in their investigation. Can you provide non-hearsay (i.e. not just the sister’s remarks) support for your claim?
She can testify to what she heard, if it comes to that. Her experience is not hearsay.
If her brother told it to her before passing out, THAT would be hearsay.
Fair enough; mea culpa.
Replace “non-hearsay” with “corroborating” instead.
Just to be pedantic, it would also be hearsay if offered for the truth of the statement, not for the fact that the statement was made.
“Rule of law.”
That’s pretty damn funny right there.
Tell me: Is Jon Corzine under indictment yet? If he isn’t, then pray, tell, what is this “rule of law” people keep speaking of?
I suppose that unless everyone who breaks the law is prosecuted, there is no rule of law?
When such egregious lawbreaking as Corzine’s, with evidence, goes without response from the legal system, yes. If a guy can get away with stealing a billion bucks, then who should think they can’t get away with a thousand here and there?
There’s a two-tiered justice system: it will come down on guys stealing a thousand here and there like a ton of bricks. Politically connected guys stealing a billion dollars (or doing anything else at all) have nothing to worry about.
Depends on the AG, and who’s in charge of the SEC, and how aggressive they want to be.
Were I Corzine, I would be bundling for Obama too. Cheaper than lawyers and the best way to stay out of jail. Better to be a crony of a 2nd term President than the latest ex-President.
If BHO loses, it will be interesting to see who he pardons on the way out of office.
Can’t wait for my CHL to show up.. Already got the IWB holster for my Glock 19, along with an IWB 2 mag holder..
Did you buy some new pants to fit that all in?
Seems to me that you don’t know shit.
Shoulder holster with double ammo pouch holds the 45. and 18 rounds.
IWB holds my M&P with 17+1 and an extra clip.
My ankle holster holds my snubbie 38. and two speed loaders in my pocket.
My gerber MkII fits on my other boot, also with no problem or discomfort.
When I walk my dogs in the woods I also bring my pistol-grip pump-mossberg(5+1) on a bandoleer strap that holds 15 shells.
I also will carry other items on my person or in a coat, depending on where I am going, what I will be doing, and any threat senarios I run through my head before hand will dictate how I outfit myself with the tools I think I need in order to make it back home, safe and sound.
Do you tape extra rifle plates to your chest and carry a bullet proof briefcase? What kind of golf carts do they have at the mall that you guard?
Oh, my bad.
Zimmerman lynch mob.
DGU’s coming in as fast as they can be posted.
Total lack of respect for one another.
Complete moral breakdown.
Refusal to take rsponsibility for one’s actions or those of one’s children.
Failure to teach respect or honor or loyalty or self reliance.
Find a way to live off the government if at all possible.
Hooray for me attitude.
Screw you attitude.
Blame anyone but yourself.
To hell with justice, get them off no matter what you have to do.
To hell with justice, get a conviction no matter what you have to do.
Win no matter the cost.
Do anything for enough money.
Worship money above all else.
Worship sports and entertainment figures above all others.
Strive to obtain the ultimate position in life, rock star status.
Substitute reality entertainment for reality.
Lie, cheat, steal if it benefits you to do so.
Remember the Golden Rule ” Due unto others before they due unto you.”
Failure of the government to be accountable to the people.
Failure of the people to hold the government accountable.
The above is titled, ” The Fall of the American Empire”.
Only two (2) questions remain.
How soon will it happen?
Who will fiddle while DC burns?
Not all flash mobs are bad.
Why did we want to be an empire? I am not for civil disorder, but Empires seem to be a bit antithetical to our nation’s ideals, don’t they?
I was not referring to the United States as an actual empire, but to it’s position of world influence. Which many believe is rapidly declining.
I was suggesting that the United States is at present ( in my view) in a moral, social and ethical state similar to that of Rome just prior to its fall from world dominance, to a city now know mostly for it’s ruins.
The title I used was borrowed ( with revisions) from Edward Gibbon’s six (6) volume work titled,”The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”.
Should have listened to Derbyshire.
This stuff is starting to worry me. I’m not a SHTF/End of the world as we know it type, but the Sharptons, Jacksons and Black Panthers of the world, combined with MSNBC (or is it MSDNC?), and President Obama are creating the conditions for racial violence.
When the Secretary of the New Black Panthers goes on the radio and says: “I just want to say to all the listeners on this phone call, that if you are having any doubt about getting suited, booted, and armed up for this race war that we’re in that has never ended, let me tell you somethin…the thing that’s about to happen these honkies, these crackers, these pigs, these people, these motherf*er…it has been long overdue,” and there are crickets from the Holder Justice Department, you have to worry.
Every adult in my house knows how to shoot. I’ll use every weapon I have at my disposal, as well as every tactical trick I’ve picked up in Panama, Iraq, and Afghanistan to defend my family.
LTC F, If you re-read the quotation, the “Secretary of the New Black Panthers” does not call for a race war. He(?) states that there has been a race war that never ended–implying that blacks are the ones who have been attacked. While his racist rant is deplorable, he is not, in this quotation at least, calling for a war. The same sort of thing has been discussed several times on this site (SHTF scenarios). By the way, what the heck is the Secretary of the NBP?
She…and my NBP Org Chart must have got lost in the mail, but I believe her title is Secretary of the National Membership Committee.
Thank you. I have lost mine, too.
Imagine what would happen if a white guy said that about blacks. He’d be in jail before he even got finished. Meanwhile they do nothing about this guy.
Shit is getting crazy below the 49th parallel. Good luck guys. You have the best wishes of your cousins to the North. I hope things work out and there is no more violence in the name of Trayvon.
The need to protect yourself and the ones you love is your responseability. How you do that depends on where you live and how you conduct yourself within the laws of the land.
Getting dressed in the morning means equiping yourself with the tools you will need for the day and that always starts with your chice of firearms if you live in the free parts of the USA.
Being smart enough to see trouble coming is one of the best ways NOT to use your gun but to get the hell away and call the police. If you can’t then the choice is up to you what to do. Every senario is different and unique, so using your brain 1st is always a good bet.
If all else fails, you at least have the means to kill someone if it comes to that, but be ready to face a zimmerman episode if any of the perps are black.
myself, I was never in the military or in any of those places … wish I was though! but health would not allow for it.
Thank you for serving our country.
I too am a tad anxious about this quote unquote “race war” that some interest groups, like the rainbow coalition and the new black scum idiots seem to try to be hastening …. and after all the “progress” that I thought we as a society have made in the last century! We even have a (traitorous) half-black president, but that is not good enough for these losers.
Oh well, if it is a race war they want, that is what they will get, but let it be known, I am NOT the one to be starting it. No, they will have to instigate that one. I live in Los Angeles with a very small family and am white, seems the odds are not in my favor, hmm? Well, we are all WELL armed now, and I make sure to bone up on my studies here, and I have a great assortment of munitions at my disposal, at the ready. I am not afraid to pump full of lead any “race-warring” cretins who try to trespass my premises and cause us harm. (OR those will try to light it on fire from the outside with their Treyvon-dedicated-cocktails, no doubt. I WILL shoot those if they take an such initiative, as those who wish to destroy my family and long-time family home will NOT see another day, I will spare society of those wretches, mark my words. What happened here in L.A. in ’91 will NOT happen here in MY peaceful neighborhood, on MY watch, take THAT hate-spewing America-resenting modern day “cultural” mobs. You will not last here. Burn your own neighborhood if you must, but stay out of mine with your rioting if you wish to live.
10+1 M&P is good.
8+1 870 is even better. Pistols imply that someone is going to get shot. Shotguns at 30 yards or less imply someone is going to get killed. It would be unusual to find 20 sober people armed with paint cans and crowbars who would be willing to assault one person with a shotgun. Mob mentality is best dispersed by personalizing the danger of the situation to each person in a mob, this is why stingball grenades, rubber bullets and tear gas are effective. The .729-inch maw of a 12 gauge can be similarly effective.
30 +1 HK MP5 is even better!
Yeah, let me know where I can get one of those.
Oh wait, I’ll just find FPSRussia *rolls eyes*
Joe, the MP5’s only advantage at getting lead in the air is the reload time. It fires 700 rpm, or 3o .356″ projectiles in a little under 3 seconds.
The first round of a 12-ga 000 buck round puts 8 .36″ balls in the air with the first trigger pull. Assuming you can shuck the pump fast enough to fire a shot every second, in the same 3 seconds it takes to empty a 30-rnd MP5 mag you have launched 4 shots x 8 .36″ balls, or 32 projectiles…with a pump-action weapon.
Get a combat semi-auto like a Benelli running and you can get even more lead in the air.
There is nothing short of a grenade that has better firepower in terms of projectiles downrange in a short period of time than a shotgun. And tricked out, a pump shotgun is about 1/40th the cost of a $20,000 MP5.
I go with #4 shot. That’s 21 (twenty one) ¼” balls (.024″ to be precise).
The word of the day is, “hamburger.”
I prefer the 3″ magnum buckshot shells from winchester.
They have 24 buckshot pellets in one round of ammo.
They have almost as big a blast as the 3″ slug rounds.
If you live in a state that still respects the 2nd admenment you can get all kinds of special shotgun ammo on the net, or even make your own!
Just do a quick youtube search for shooting my special shotgun ammo to see all the things you can do with a shotgun round. It is truely limited by your imagination, or the law!
I love the ones that make real good use of coins, like a shotgun round loaded with dimes! or nickles, or pennies.
If you got a 20.ga you can use quaters for reloads!
Quarters are 25mm (1″) in diameter. They are larger in diameter than a 12ga much less a 20ga.
Using trick rounds in a self-defense situation is a bad idea. You’re better off using commercial, common ammo. Using VampireKiller, flechette, chain-shot or whatever may suggest to the DA that you were spoiling for a fight and bought special ammo just to be cool.
The “dime load” is less aerodynamic and has less penetrating power than garden-variety buckshot.
Can anyone refer me to a summary of federal firearms laws? Specifically, I’m trying to figure out the law regarding mag tube extensions on semi-auto shotguns. Thanks.
You can buy semi-auto MP5 clones.
A Mossberg 500 pistol grip with 6 rounds of #4 Buck will dampen the enthusiasm of even the rowdiest group of A holes at you door.The 12 gauge barrel does get the attention of most people.
Pistol for initial response/fight my way to my M590A1 so I have some heavier firepower to reach my SIG 516 with 300 rounds in magazines.
I can’t imagine the situation he wound up in. Then again if the kids left and the adults returned why did he not stay in his home? It is an initial report, and doesn’t excuse the behavior. It just makes me sick, even if he used the “N” word, who cares. He is lucky Mr. Owens wasn’t armed otherwise there would be a few funerals to attend I am sure.. And you know white dude kills innocent black mob and wow protests every where for justice!
“Then again if the kids left and the adults returned why did he not stay in his home?”
It’s possible he mistakenly assumed a group of ignorant subhumans were capable of acting like reasonable adults. That mob was no better than the ignorant subhumans that used to lynch blacks. They just gave up their moral high ground to condemn racial violence.
Every person of every race would do themselves a huge favor following in the footsteps of Reverend Wade Watts.
Too late for a correction but I need to clarify that I realize there is a definite difference between a lynching and beating a man within an inch of his life. My point was random violence is despicable in any form and I didn’t convey that as well as I should have.
APBTFan – I was very much blessed by that video. Thanks for posting it. I hope that I would have the courage Rev. Watts had.
He’s a man that when I’m on the edge I like to think of and hopefully do better than what my very strong instincts would dictate. Our nation would be infinitely better if folks of all walks took to heart Mr. Watts’ way instead of the likes of Sharpton and Jackson that claim to be Reverends.
It’s speculative as to whether or not the Martin Vs. Zimmerman case was a hate crime or not. I honestly don’t believe it was, given i’m a minority and i think people are so quick to pull the race card. People are going to rub people badly no matter what, regardless of race. Playing loud basketball late at night is going to bother people.
But no doubt this was a hate crime, so this beating will be tried under federal law. No slap on the wrist for those adults.
They should be tried for their actions, not their thoughts.
There’s a kid in NY that was convicted of a hate crime because his depressed gay college roommate jumped off a bridge. He’ll either be deported on imprisoned and then deported, despite the fact that things did not go down the way the media portrayed. This is just one of many reasons for George Zimmerman to be worried.
I’m probably not sensitive to the importance of hate crime, given that I am not a minority, but I don’t see the sense in it. Of the three guys who despicably dragged James Byrd behind a truck to kill him, one is dead at the hand of the state, another is facing a death sentence and the third is serving life in prison. Two of the three cannot be any deader with the addition of a hate crime charge, and you can’t confine someone for longer than their natural life. WHY they murdered James Byrd is less important than THAT they murdered James Byrd.
Punish people for the actions they commit, not for what you conjecture is in their mind. The fact that as a society there is a call for Thoughtcrime is suggestive that our normal criminal processes are insufficient and randomly applied — fix that problem, don’t add more problems.
Sadly, resorting to help from the local wiseguys might be in order:
“Now youse can’t leave.”
hahahhaha… Rob Schnider! (spelling)
Good God, I feel so bad for Matthew Owens. I hope that somehow he recovers OK. He did absolutely nothing to deserve this.
And to make matters worse, if that’s possible, some asshole makes a crack about Martin. Why.
I personally would have called the cops versus confront the kids and adults.
I somewhat regret selecting the “Notify me of follow-up comments by email” option now… I’ve gotten 73 new emails today because of this, which are linked to my phone… sigh.
Conscience, Morality and Rights my friends, Conscience, Morality and Rights.
As a 2% or less genetic variance from the indigenous primates, we’re all members of the ‘human’ race…like it or not.
In circumstances when members of the group emphasize distinctions and associate them with the archaic notion of ‘race’, immediately called into question is the intent and purpose for doing so.
With the capacity to think, we may think ourselves to be one thing or another, but simple observation evidences that, the very basis of our activities are entirely consistent with those of virtually all other living things.
‘Nature’ is said to be neither kind nor cruel, but indifferent.
What Nature hasn’t done to us, we far too frequently do to ourselves and others, all the while ignorantly and arrogantly believing it to be our idea.
If we fail to apply the qualities of Conscience, adhere to simple codes of Moral thought and conduct and recognize individual Rights, we unfailingly prove ourselves to be the cruelest and most dangerous animals ever to inhabit the planet.
And Justice? Justice in Nature will be served when–despite all the qualities ‘humans’ possess to ameliorate their ‘race’ from the miserable conditions of physical existence–finally manage to exterminate themselves entirely.
If we don’t show compassion for one another, who will?
I’m calling for calm contemplation in stark contrast to animalistic response.
“Do No Harm / Successfully Defend.”
“Evil is an absence of Conscience, Hell a place devoid of all Reason.”
The Sec. of the NBP is correct in his statement of race war, and that it has been an ongoing situation for decades. I witnessed it in the military, most of the blacks I encountered were good honest people. But; there were those that were openly hostile to anything and anyone that was white. They refused to conform to polite society, looking for any means to start a confrontation, whether it be in the work place, or at a club on post.
What made matters worse was when the leadership continualy moved these same people into positions, that they were not qualified for. They only did it to keep the trouble makers in check. However that was a dismal failure. In reality it only emboldened these individuals to be more hostile towards those they worked with.
For my part, I spent 7 years in the Army. Two tours in Nam, and I learned my lessons well. If TSHTF, than I will be prepared for what comes. Booby traps don’t discriminate, and neither shall I. What is a real shame is this, we have an imposter, pretending to be president, and he encourages racial problems. He sides with those that would cause the fall of racial proprieties. HE wants a race war! HE wants to arm the black gangs in order to create a “…civilian army…” With all of the weapons that the military has.
You wanted this race-baiting piece of dung, and now that you have made history, and have change, with higher gas prices, higher food costs, higher utilities, and higher taxes, you still don’t see the problem! WTFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Smell the coffee and get ready for the madness that IS coming after the election, as HE declares himself dictator for life. You ask how will he do that, because it’s un-Constitutional?
It’s simple, he will declare martial law, using any incident that comes along. Next he will declare the Constitution to be suspended indefinitely, he will not allow the opposing party to take office, if they should win the election. He will then call for all the guns to be turned in, and if you don’t do it voluntarily, he will send out armed personel to search your home, sans the 4th Amendment. Remember he will have suspended the Constitution.
Why would he want a race war?
According to wiki answers, gas “cost $4.34 for Premium during July 2008 ($4.11 for Regular) based on the U.S. National Average.” It is now about the same. Yes, it was cheap in January, 2009, but that was the heart of the world-wide recession, so demand was way down (supply/demand creates prices).
Tim said, “Many of our fellow citizens have lost sight of the fact that one of the great attributes of America is the rule of law. ”
How does that fit in with you policing the neighborhood and telling the local hoodlums to keep it down? Are you the enforcer of that rule of law?
Yes. And so are you.