Governor Nikki Haley of South Carolina has said that she will sign the gun law reform, Bill 308. The law has been widely touted as a restaurant carry bill that removes state restrictions on people with concealed carry permits carrying their defensive firearms into establishments that serve alcohol. Second Amendment supporters have argued that they should be able to eat at the same restaurants as other citizens without discrimination by the government. The new law will prohibit legally armed citizens from consuming alcohol while in these establishments . . .
Restaurants owners will be able to discriminate if they chose to do so, either by placing a sign indicating that armed citizens aren’t welcome, or by asking individuals to leave their establishments.
When the South Carolina reform is signed, only one state will have a blanket prohibition on carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. According to opencarry.org, that state is Louisiana. Restaurant carry reform passed the Louisiana House 64-24 in 2013, but the bill didn’t make it through the legislative process. North Dakota passed restaurant carry reform in 2013.
South Carolina’s Bill 308 reforms other parts of the State’s gun laws as well.
The eight hour training requirement for a concealed carry permit is dropped, leaving a checklist of items that must be covered in the required instruction instead. Former military and retired law enforcement are exempted from some of the training.
Sheriffs are no longer required to submit a recommendation about an applicant’s fitness. If the applicant for the concealed carry permit passes the background check, South Carolina’s Law Enforcement Division (SLED) must issue the permit.
Among other improvements, applications for the permit will now be accepted online and the term of the permit is extended from four to five years. Fingerprints won’t be necessary for renewal applications. And restrictions on where in vehicles firearms may be transported have been removed for permit holders.
The law will take effect when the governor sign’s the bill into law.
©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Gun Watch
It looks like some states are getting it right.
No, she still does not have it right. SC refuses to resiprocate with even it’s neighbor Georgia and will not honor GA Concealed Carry permits. This is asinine. And of course, Ga. will not honor SC because of that. Really stupid since the states are so close and so much alike.
Keeny…the reason is that Georgia does not require proof that you know how to handle a firearm….you just pay a fee, have a background check and your good to go.
Just when you think things are bad and getting worse, a person like Nikki Haley comes along and we move forward, not backward.
Gov. Nikki Haley is a possible candidate for US President. She would make a good one.
Not to mention how it would nullify the feminist arguments that questioning Hillary’s qualifications, competence, or ethics are just because “you” are a misogynistic woman hating sexist.
Actually, they’d just say she was the Republicans’ token female.
Run! Nikki Run!
I’d vote for her.
She’s of Indian decent as well. A pro 2nd amendment minority female, the sound of the lefts collective heads exploding would be glorious.
I would love for her to run. For one her being a woman (a good looking one at that) Is an advantage. Second she is more conservative than Chris Christie which would be much better for the country. Third her support for the 2nd amendment is both more than 1000x greater and actually genuine compared to Chris Christie (hell the only reason he vetoed any of the gun control laws NJ politicians were trying to pass was because he is preparing himself to run for president, other wise he would have signed them all in a heart beat)
She’s not there yet- but she’s a damn sight better than our last governor.
I’d really like to see the ‘printing=brandishing’ law vanish in SC.
What “Printing=Brandishing” law?
According to SC code, printing is perfectly OK. SC’s definition of concealed in simply being out of plain sight. Even temporary (accidental, such as your shirt lifting while reaching over your head) exposure is OK. This has been confirmed with several CWP instructors and SLED.
“SC Code 23-21-210
(6) “Concealable weapon” means a firearm having a length of less than twelve inches measured along its greatest dimension that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing except when needed for self-defense, defense of others, and the protection of real or personal property.”
The only statement of “brandishing being an offense is in SECTION 16-23-420:
“(B) It is unlawful for a person to enter the premises or property described in subsection (A) and to display, brandish, or threaten others with a firearm. “
My apologies; I phrased it poorly. Typing on a phone sometimes makes me lazy.
You’ve cited Section 23-31-210, Item 6. The SLED interpretation at the time I received my CWP training was that a weapon is NOT ‘hidden from public view during normal wear of clothing’ if it’s printing to the extent that someone can tell that it’s a weapon and not just a bulge or wrinkle. Whether it’s discernible as a weapon would be up to the discretion of the arresting officer. SLED even issued a statement explaining that magazines and magazine carriers printing were not an issue because mags are not weapons.
That said, I don’t know of any arrests or convictions related to printing in SC. I’m not aware of a change in interpretation, but I’d like to see any references you have that were issued by SLED.
She would absolutely get my vote. The way SC is turning around under her administration, I’m tempted to reconsider it as my retirement state. (Property taxes are probably still too high though.)
I am interested if our reciprocity will increase seeing as how minimum time is eliminated and also how we are supposed to apply online when finger print cards are needed as of right now.
But this bill passed almost two weeks ago, sign the damn thing already.
Yeah I am sick of having to leave my gun in the car everytime I go to Outback. Be nice if we could get some more reciprocity too signed up for the Utah class so I can carry in GA, and AL. Sucks going to see my family on the Gulf when I can’t carry in AL and when I go to Atlanta, Savannah, and Augusta to see friends just driving through GA to get to Mobile.
No need to waste time taking the UT class. Your current permit is good enough to get an AZ permit which is good in both those states.
And still no nonresident permits except for those who own real estate in SC?
I go cross eyed whenever I read through it, but it is possible that HB115 http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess120_2013-2014/bills/115.htm may allow non-residents to open and conceal carry without permit. I didn’t see any specifics on residence, but “unlawfully carrying a handgun” is stricken as an offense, and replaced with “carrying a handgun with the intent to commit a crime”.
That bill you linked to would be an excellent change. It would make constitutional carry the law in SC.
BTW, it doesn’t “allow” people to carry without a permit. It removes the prohibition that legally prevents people from carrying. Governments don’t “allow” us to do anything; they prohibit us from doing things.
Though I’m generally opposed to obtaining a permit to exercise your rights, at least SC is moving in the right direction. I don’t imagine I’ll ever have it exactly the way I want it, but it’s good to see some politicians can actually exercise a little rational thought from time to time.
I wonder if we will some blood in the streets nonsense from this for the next few days.
“Blood in the streets” PSH from the usual pearl-clutchers and MSM.
Actual blood in the streets from this action, not so much.
While not my favorite republican governor, I’ll call this a win for SC and rest of us.
A quick look at the Nikki wiki indicates she is up for election in 2014.
Awesome!
Good to hear for all those in South Carolina.
” The new law will prohibit legally armed citizens from consuming alcohol while in these establishments”
No problem with that common sense restriction
Living in CA, cold day in hell for getting a CCW
I have a problem with it, and I don’t find it to be common sense at all. I don’t like being forced to be a teetotaler because I wish to be able to defend myself. If I want a beer with lunch or dinner, I should be allowed to, because I’m an adult.
Once again, I find reason to be thankful I live in Florida.
+1
+1 on “because I’m an adult”. My sportsman’s club operates a licensed bar for its members and has indoor and outdoor ranges. I was shooting my ..22 rifle below the bar last night, sober. I prefer to drink there too because nobody acts like a jerk.
+1.
In Colorado, I can legally walk into a restaurant or bar while carrying a firearm, either openly* or concealed (no permit necessary if carrying openly), sit down, and have a beer. As long as I’m not “under the influence of intoxicating liquor”, the state treats me as a grown-up.
*offer void in the City and County of Denver
Another great part of this law is that SC has very specific signage laws. In a year of CCW I have seen one properly posted sign. Many esablishments will put a generic nonconforming “no guns” sign, and I will still carry.
“SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.
(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.
(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:
(1) clearly visible from outside the building;
(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;
(3) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black one-inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;
(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal;
(5) a diameter of a circle; and
(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building’s entrance door.
(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:
(1) thirty-six inches wide by forty-eight inches tall in size;
(2) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black three- inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;
(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty-four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;
(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety-six inches above the ground;
(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.”
I also rarely see correct no gun signs here. As you stated, an incorrect sign has no force of law. Unfortunately, restaurant carry will shed more light on this issue and many businesses will realize they were doing it wrong.
You knowsomething I like about living in SC? My bank does not have any anti-gun signage. It does however have a sign that says “No Hoodies Allowed”.
Framing the debate in terms of civil rights, without referring directly to Civil Rights. I like this approach. One day we’ll be singing WE SHALL OVERCOME. Maybe.
We can get in the front door instead of seeing the “no co….., concealed carriers allowed? Yippy, we movin now, Randy
What’s with all the gun-related legislation with calibers for the numbers? This is bill 308. In Texas they have 30.06 signs. It’s too bad Washington’s firearms laws are all in RCW 9.41. Maybe we can sneak something into RCW 5.56 Witnesses – Compelling Attendance.
I would like to see SC do something about the reciprocity issues. As a Georgian, I cant get a permit to carry in SC no matter what I do (short of moving there).
Position, Perspective, References and Opinions of course naturally varying:
A reasonable person might be inclined to at least casually note that in terms of the ’Right’ of all Freemen to Keep and Bear Arms being one in particular that predates and preexisted every form of government ever established in America; and all government under a Constitutional Republic form being instituted for the primary and most fundamental purpose of Securing Rights of all Freemen / Citizens:- that in sum, the whole affair seems to amount to not much more than a matter of persons in a State government merely reducing a few of the penalties among the many previously enacted and still existing ‘Rights’-violating laws.
A petulant, less-than-entirely reasonable type of person — which I’m not — might be inclined to consider this minor reform could well have been more aptly cited as “Bill .9mm”.
Conscience, Morality and ‘Rights’ my friends…Conscience, Morality and ‘Rights’.
Do No Harm / Successfully Defend.
H/T to Mr. Dean Weingarten.
Governor Haley has gone on record saying “I will sign any gun legislation that does not restrict SC citizen’s 2nd amendment rights”. If the legislature would pass HB115: South Carolina Constitutional Carry, we would be set.
The only issue I have with SC, more specifically counties like Dorchester, is the tendency of Sheriffs to refuse to sign off on NFA items. There are LOTS of trusts here, and if the ATF tweaks the requirements, quite a few gun owners will be hosed.
Good job SC, I was just annoyed at you last summer when I went to Myrtle Beach but couldn’t (legally) carry in any of the restaurants we visited due to stupid laws. A good win for the good guys!
Squeaky girl voice “I love you Nicki!!!!”
I love her like others love Bieber. Yupe.
We allow people to consume alcohol and then get behind the wheel of a car that can travel over 70 mph! Really this isn’t a big deal. That being said, I would never drink while carrying…heck I don’t drink a drop before I’ll get behind the wheel of a car. Anything that can impair judgement is a bad idea when using things that require good judgement.
With all these CCW laws and where you can and can not carry are a pain in the ass. Dont have a problem with needing a permit but to tell me where I can and can not is BS. If it is concealed no one knows you have it right? Unless you are stupid
“Restaurants owners will be able to discriminate if they chose to do so, either by placing a sign indicating that armed citizens aren’t welcome, or by asking individuals to leave their establishments.”
Um, how will the restaurant owners know the patrons are carrying if those patrons are carrying properly? If you are properly carrying, no one should ever know you are carrying. And you should be prudent to not talk about it while you are carrying.
FYI this bill was ratified yesterday.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/billsearch.php?billnumbers=308&session=120&summary=B
So a few quick questions on how you guys read this:
1. Center cubbies and door cubbies are fair game?
2. Those that have been through basic don’t need the class and can just apply for the permit?
I love South Carolina and the fine looking and smart Honorable Nikki Haley……TYVM Gov
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