SB Tactical Stands with Q, LLC Against ATF’s Honey Badger Ruling

Q honey badger sb tactical

Q Honey Badger pistol with SB Tactical pistol stabilizing brace (Jeremy S. for TTAG)

From SB Tactical:

SB Tactical, in conjunction with the Firearms Regulatory Accountability Coalition, Inc., (FRAC), and the National Rifle Association, stands in solidarity with Q, LLC. and is disappointed by the recent ATF actions in classifying their Honey Badger pistol as a short-barreled rifle. This classification is based on a seemingly arbitrary set of criteria and promises to create unnecessary confusion and anxiety amongst millions of legal gun owners and the industry as a whole.

The ATF is saying, in part, that they will not evaluate an accessory as a stand-alone product, but that the characteristics of the entire firearm influence their decision. Characteristics such as optics chosen, magazine capacity, how the gun is marketed, or length of pull will “holistically” determine a firearm’s NFA classification. Moreover, the ATF has, to date, refused to clarify or state what characteristics define a Pistol Stabilizing Brace. They have stated that “they will know it when they see it”.

This arbitrary approach is creating confusion and uncertainty for millions of law-abiding citizens, manufacturers, retailers, and wholesalers. SB Tactical is the inventor of the Pistol Stabilizing Brace and is deeply committed to our customers, the Second Amendment, and the rule of law. The ATF’s approach is unfair and unlawful.

SB Tactical will, undoubtedly and unwaveringly, continue to support Q, LLC. We are tirelessly working with congressional leadership, the White House, and the Department of Justice to ensure that legal gun owners’ rights and the rights of manufacturers are not in jeopardy. It is our hope that the ATF’s latest policy interpretations, politically motivated or not, are corrected and that the confusion created can be reversed.

It is not too late to make your voice heard. We strongly urge you to contact the Department of Justice and demand they take swift action to stop and reverse ATF’s efforts to issue arbitrary and capricious decisions affecting millions of legal gun owners.

Additionally, we encourage you to reach out to the White House and ask President Trump to rollback ATF’s agenda:

  • White House Comment Line:

Residents from the following states and districts should reach out to their congressional representatives to let them know what they think of ATF’s actions:

  • Kansas – Sen. Jerry Moran (R) – Chairman of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies (CJS) which is responsible for funding the ATF.
  • South Carolina – Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) – Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is responsible for ATF oversight.
  • Ohio 4th District – Congressman Jim Jordan (R) – Ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee which has jurisdiction over 2nd amendment issues. https://jordan.house.gov/
  • If you’re not from one these States, you can find your representative’s contact information here: https://www.contactingcongress.org/

About SB Tactical

SB Tactical®, the originator of the Pistol Stabilizing Brace® and manufacturers of industry-leading firearms accessories, is setting the bar for innovation and product development in the large frame pistol category. The SB Tactical line of products is U.S. veteran designed and proudly manufactured in the U.S.A. For more information on the brand’s growing line of products for multiple firearms platforms, visit www.sb-tactical.com.

comments

  1. avatar Joel IV says:

    Now more than ever: Vote Libertarian.

    1. avatar Biatec says:

      I might have to even though I hate Jo Jorganson. Republicans and Democrats are all socialists. We have like 2 people in all of Congress who are Constitutionalists and for free markets.

    2. avatar Esoteric Inanity says:

      Afraid it’s 86 years too late for that.

    3. avatar Simon says:

      And what does the libertarian candidate, that stands no chance of winning, offer us?

      1. avatar The Olympic Snorch says:

        You’re not getting a present, it’s not like sitting on Santa’s lap. You either show principle or you don’t. It’s probably not what you’re used to, a lot of things have probably been handed to you in life.

        1. avatar Mike V says:

          Care to share what things?

      2. avatar arc - the annoying one says:

        It “punishes” the other party by costing them elections. It’s not a solution at all.

        I want an “opt-out” box on my ballot. I want a government that leaves me the hell alone.

    4. avatar FedUp says:

      That was a viable option before 2016, when they put up an anti-gun Masshole for President. Somewhere between 2012 and 2016, the freedom party became the free drugs and open borders party (the open borders part was always there, but it wasn’t always the main point of being Libertarian).

      1. avatar Chris says:

        100%. A stoner as a candidate and the liberal progressives of norml backed Johnson. Many libertarians are slowly turning to liberals.

        1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          This is why I started calling the Libertarians “socialists who want to smoke pot”.

        2. avatar Anton Solomyr says:

          Chris,

          I don’t know who you’re running into who calls themselves a Libertarian, but socialism is the antithesis of what a Libertarian believes in (free will, self-reliance, independence, very against collectivism, at least forced or coerced collectivism).

          Calling a true Libertarian a socialist is like calling the blue sky red. Remember, the root word of “Libertarian” is “Liberty”. If what’s coming out of someone’s mouth flies in the face of liberty, they’re not a true Libertarian.

    5. avatar MtnDewey says:

      yeah because they will get the electoral college to elect them. oh I mean actually biden will win because all of you voted against Trump. third parties are a lost cause.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Perhaps you have missed the point. You are getting more gun control under Trump than Obama ever managed. That won’t change because there is zero reason for the GOP to change anything if you keep voting for them party-line like lemmings marching off a cliff.

        Like, do you guys have battered wife syndrome?

        Your party doesn’t love you. A party that loves you doesn’t do this to you.

        1. avatar Country Boy says:

          FWIW all the letter agencies were filled with dem appointees before and during the mobama admin.
          AAMOF many still there. Trump needs to fire those he can and oust the others. Trump/repubs aren’t doing this ATF stuff, the dems that have filled the ATF are.

        2. avatar Fred says:

          Do not be confused! Any vote for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for Biden. Read Biden’s platform; he is committed to confiscating your guns. Has Trump been great? No, but just imagine the ‘progress’ Hillary would have made.

          Trump has steadily been appointing Conservative judges; that is his legacy. If he manages to replace Ginsberg, that will work in our favor for decades. Keep your eye on the ball!

    6. avatar Andrew lias says:

      Perhaps the saddest party in the saddest year in major party history is the libertarians. All they had to do was nominate a libertarian –Ben Shapiro

    7. avatar d says:

      Voting Libertarian is a great way to get dementia Joe elected. It will ONLY take votes away from Trump and regardless of intent, only an idiot would vote libertarian.

      1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

        Only true for voters in swing states. If someone’s in a state that’s solidly red or blue, voting for Dr. Jorgensen isn’t going to change the EC results. But, if enough people vote to get the Libertarians to 5%, it gives them an easier time in 2024.

        1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          Instead of talking about getting rid of laws she doesn’t like. Which requires congressional action. It would be much more effective if Jo Jorgensen would say “as the executive she would have the ATF reduce as much as possible the executive branch regulation on guns”.

          But she seems to not understand stand how government works.

          “2020 Presidential Candidate Dr. Jo Jorgensen | Gun Talk Radio” video” 10 min long

    8. avatar Thixotropic says:

      You are either an imbecile or trolling sack.

      My guess is TROLLING SACK

    9. avatar Huntmaster says:

      Libertarian. For those who can’t make up their mind because they smoked too much pot.

      1. avatar Anton Solomyr says:

        Libertarian: for those who do not compromise the ideals of liberty for *anything*.

        Stop selling out. It is, shall I say, liberating?

    10. avatar SeanS says:

      Amen! Jo and Spike would put an end to this BS!

    11. avatar jobob says:

      Libertarian Party isn’t any better, they get their funding from the same place and their role is as a honey trap for the discontent.

    12. avatar James Campbell says:

      “Now more than ever: Vote Libertarian”
      Joe and Hoe have the media, leftards and Socialist/Marxists voters supporting them 💯.
      Make NO mistake, ALL Libertarian votes will ONLY reduce the Trump vote numbers.
      This election is ALL about defeating Socialism and Marxism.
      Don’t throw away the country by voting L, JUST because you don’t like Trump.
      Every L vote is a vote for Venezuela coming here to the US.
      Trump Pence for 2020
      Joe Hoe votes (and Libertarian votes) for a US that looks like Venezuela.

      1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

        Ahhh, the quaint belief that everyone’s vote counts. True in a swing state, but what proportion of the country us that?

    13. avatar Ron says:

      Uh all the libertarian candidates since 2012 have all supported far more draconian gun control measures.

      The Libertarian Party, like the Green Party, is simply controlled opposition.

      There is not and has never been a third option.

    14. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

      I disagree.

      The Libertarian party stands no chance of winning, and has some issues to work out. Our best best as libertarians and ancaps is to vote Trump in 2020. If you want to try to rebuild the party and expand it’s reach for 2024 or 2028 that’s fine, but vote Trump now.

      If Trump does not win then there will be a civil war for sure. If all of the election tampering by the democrats doesn’t start it then all of us refusing to obey new gun laws will. Then you will not get a chance in 2024.

      Connect with Tom Woods. He was making an attempt in 2019, IIRC, to get right libertarians to join and take over the party. They’re partial success is why Jo Jorgenson was fielded instead of a further left candidate. In another 4 years they might have it accomplished, if they can keep up their momentum.

      As for braces, mine is still on my 10/22 pistol. It will stay there regardless of ATFs opinions. Fuck the police.

    15. avatar Billy says:

      Why? So they can import cheap labor that will cancel my vote out, like in VA? No thanks.

  2. avatar Esoteric Inanity says:

    Imagine, all the things that the BATFE(ARBF) could classify a simple carrot as depending on its “use” and “features”.

  3. avatar MtnDewey says:

    WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!

  4. avatar Anymouse says:

    Maybe it’s the cheek rest and adjustable length of pull that they’re opposed to. If the cheek rest isn’t usable with the arm in the brace, it’s arguable that it’s meant to be used while shouldered.

  5. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    Kill. Chevron. Now.

    1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      This.

  6. avatar Chris says:

    What a shock, the company making the product in question is standing by them. LOL ya it’s their livelihoods! But everyone knew this was coming, even though any ban is ridiculous and unconstitutional I know nobody that doesn’t shoulder their pistol braces. I mean Trump banned bumpstocks for petesake, a non registered non firearm part that makes your rifle inaccurate. I’m amazed they haven’t done anything yet.

    1. avatar PAUL STARR says:

      I have been a lifetime republican, when are we all going to wake up and realize that when we hitched our wagon to Trump, we made a deal with the devil. Think i am wrong, how about the bump stocks, how about the National Reciprocity Act, how about the Hearing Protection Act, how about the Veterans Bill (the NFA One) All these promise’s about how he is the most Pro 2nd amendment president ever, hey guys and gals lets get out of our stupor and delirium and face the music…we have been conned by the greatest charlatan con man in history. I am fully aware the Dem’s ain’t on our side, but we all know Charles Schumer is not in our camp, but at least you know it. I have a bad feeling come 3 Nov. a lot of the party of the jackass are going to be celebrating while the elephant will have it’s tusks cut off. out/

  7. avatar rob says:

    How about SB Tactical & Q give refunds to all the customers they screwed out of their money, by putting out a product with a new brace like this without getting an ATF determination first? Or at least pay for the tax stamps so they can SBR their guns. This is pretty ridiculous.

    1. avatar Salty says:

      Wuuuuuuuut. Why would you want more shenanigans??

    2. avatar D says:

      Rob, what drugs are you taking?

    3. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

      SB has copies of the approval letters from the ATF on their website.

      1. avatar Anymouse says:

        This isn’t a ruling against pistol braces in general. It’s about these specific braces that SBT makes exclusively for Q. It’s not like the bump stock ban where BATFE had rulings that they were legal and then reversed itself. It does look like somebody dropped the ball and started selling before getting a ruling. It doesn’t help that BATFE apparently has secret rules for what is considered a pistol brace, which don’t have a legislative definition. From previous cases, we know there’s a limit of 13.5 inches (measured parallel to the barrel from the front of the trigger), and you can’t “redesign” it by removing the strap, but everything else is unpublished. I’m guessing the cheek piece was the step too far. I haven’t tried one of these Q braces, but I don’t think I could get it to my face with my arm in the brace and the gun pointed in a reasonable direction. I’m clueless about what’s custom on the Sugar Weasel brace from an SB3 that makes it “designed to be fired from the shoulder.” I hope Q and SBT fight the ruling and bring some light to BATFE.

        1. avatar Ad A Dglgmut says:

          You can chase the dragon all you want buddy, you’ll never catch it, though.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Look at it this way; if you pay up the $200 and register it as an SBR, you can toss the stupid brace and put a no-shit collapsing stock on it. Kick in another $200 and suppress that sucker. Now if someone can figure how to mount a bayonet I’ll be ecstatic even after the boating accident.

  8. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Libertarians should be the best historians when it comes to articulating Arms and keeping your Liberty. But they are not. And they should be.

    1. avatar Anton Solomyr says:

      Maybe they are and you just don’t know where to look, bucko.

      https://libertarianinstitute.org/
      https://www.cato.org/research
      https://theihs.org/

  9. avatar CapMurica says:

    Braces, like Bumpstocks are “gotcha” items. Purposely made legal… so they can eventually be made illegal.
    Of course their flip flopping can’t help their legal case.
    Trump has lost control of the Bureaucracy – this is a really bad thing.
    Obama appointees are still running the country.

    1. avatar Country Boy says:

      FWIW control of the ATF was lost long before Trump came along. The Mobama admin negatively helped it along quite a bit though.

      1. avatar Cale15 says:

        And it’s trumps fault for not “draining the swamp” he could have appointed new people! Bunch of trump cucks on here that have put their life on the line in other country’s for their freedom but are too scared to do it in their own country!

  10. avatar Nanashi says:

    The supreme court said a law that requires the interpretation of an individual officer was unconstitutional because it violated the equal protection clause (Chicago v. Morales). When is a law that literally requires an entire federal agency to make determinations on going to be struck down under this determination?

  11. avatar Hannibal says:

    “how the gun is marketed…”

    And that’s the key problem here. For awhile you would see these braces marketed very carefully. Not anymore. It was a fig leaf but it was USEFUL. Now it’s removed.

    Had marketers and companies managed to control themselves and not make every video showing them using a ‘pistol stabilization device’ exactly like a stock we might not be here.

  12. avatar Roger J says:

    I have been waiting for this ever since the ‘brace’ became a way to evade the NFA SBR regulations and tax.

  13. avatar I Haz A Question says:

    From the article:

    “The ATF is saying, in part, that they will not evaluate an accessory as a stand-alone product…”

    Bump stocks? Hello?

  14. avatar sound awake says:

    ive never supported the atf on anything and i wish somebody would do to it what was rumoured that jfk wanted to do to the cia…splinter it into a thousand pieces and cast it to the winds…
    having said that:
    an adjustable pistol brace to me just always seemed *a bit too good to be true*
    thats why i never bought one
    instead i have a shockwave a strike industries and most recently an mft brace
    the distance between the palm of the hand and the general area on the forearm where the brace contacts it is essentially the same for just about everybody and therefore making it adjustable makes it almost exactly like a stock
    and then they went and really hurt themselves by showing videos of the weapon being shouldered…
    it is what it is:
    they flew too close to the sun on wax wings
    and it bit them

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      For amputees and people with significant arm and hand injuries, the adjustable braces work much better.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        And, of course, it’s none of the government’s business, anyway.

        1. avatar James Campbell says:

          Exactly. Friggin’. This!
          Larry wins best post on TTAG for today!

  15. avatar Q Tang Clan says:

    Why the alphabet bois gotta pick on the baby Honey Badger?? Watch out baby Sugar Weasel they gonna bully you next

  16. avatar Loving American says:

    Dismantle the ATF and Nullify the NFA Now!!!!!

    1. avatar Anton Solomyr says:

      “A law repugnant to the Constitution is void. An act of Congress repugnant to the Constitution cannot become a law. The Constitution supersedes all other laws and the individual’s rights shall be liberally enforced in favor of him, the clearly intended and expressly designated beneficiary.” –Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803)

      “An unconstitutional law is void and is as no law. An offense created by it is not crime. A conviction under it is not merely erroneous but isillegal and void and cannot be used as a legal cause of imprisonment.” – Ex parte Siebold, 100 U.S. 371 (1879)

      “An unconstitutional act is not law. It confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office. It is, in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed.” – Norton v. Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425 (1886)

      “Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule-making or legislation which would abrogate them.” –Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966)

      Seems like more than enough legal precedent is there. But getting our courts to uncork their heads from their aft orifices and look at all that is the real challenge.

  17. avatar MLee says:

    Apparently the actions from the ATF and FATD (Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division) has not classified the weapon and Q never submitted a sample. It stems from the ATF simply looking at the Q offering for sale and sent a letter stating in part: “Based on the product description on your website, ATF believes these firearms are designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder and may be classified as a short-barreled rifle under the GCA and NFA”

    The ATF wants Q to submit a sample for testing and evaluation.

  18. avatar Joel IV says:

    Every Democrat / Left-Leaning board I post “Vote Jo Jorgensen” on all have the same argument.

    “A vote for Jo is a vote for Trump and we can’t risk that! Don’t take votes away from Biden!”

    Different sides of the same coin.

    No, I don’t smoke pot, but you have the right to put whatever you want into your own body.

  19. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

    After the election we really need to push for removal of SBR, SBS, AOW, and suppressors from the NFA.

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