ATF Rules Q’s Honey Badger Pistol is a Short Barrel Rifle, Issues Cease and Desist Letter

Q honey badger pistol

Jeremy S. for TTAG

Q, makers of the Honey Badger pistol, has just issued the following notice to its customers:

Dear Customer:

On August 3rd, 2020, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”) issued Q® a formal Cease & Desist letter, notifying us that ATF has taken the position that the Q Honey Badger Pistol is a short-barreled rifle (“SBR”) regulated under the National Firearms Act (“NFA”).  In response, Q has ceased all production of the Honey Badger Pistol, and submitted a comprehensive letter to ATF and the Department of Justice (“DOJ”) stating why we disagree with this classification[1]. Additionally, we have provided recommendations on how to address the firearms already in circulation. Q is seeking solutions that best protect you, the individual, and Q’s distribution network from falling out of compliance with ATF regulations, and federal law. At this time, Q has not received any definitive guidance from the ATF.

In the meantime, Q encourages possessors of the Honey Badger Pistol to take these proactive measures until a resolution is reached between Q and ATF.

1. Complete one of the following:

A: Remove the barreled upper receiver from the lower receiver and dedicate it as a replacement
for another AR-style pistol or registered short-barreled rifle; or

B: If you do not possess another AR-style pistol or registered short-barreled rifle, remove the barreled upper receiver from the lower receiver and temporarily transfer it out of your possession by, for example, transferring it to the dominion and control of another individual; and

2. Once the previous step is completed, you may file an ATF Form 1 to register the lower receiver as a short-barreled rifle. Upon Form 1 approval, the firearm may be reassembled.

Failure to complete option a or option b could result in prosecution and is subject to a $10,000.00 fine and up to 10 years imprisonment.

If you are concerned with this situation – as Q is – we urge you to contact the Department of Justice (ATF’s parent agency) by using the below OneClickPolitics link.

Additionally, we encourage you to reach out to the White House and ask President Trump to halt and rollback ATF’s efforts to issue arbitrary and capricious decisions affecting millions of legal gun owners.

  • White House Comment Line:
    • (202) 456-1111 / Email

Residents from the following states and districts should reach out to their congressional representatives to let them know what they think of ATF’s actions:

  • Kansas – Sen. Jerry Moran (R) – Chairman of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies (CJS) which is responsible for funding the ATF.
    • (202) 224-6521 / Email
  • South Carolina – Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) – Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is responsible for ATF oversight.
    • (202) 224-5972 / Email
  • Ohio 4th District – Congressman Jim Jordan (R) – Ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee which has jurisdiction over 2nd amendment issues. https://jordan.house.gov/
    • (202) 225-2676 / Email
Q takes extreme care to remain in compliance with federal law, and we share your frustration with this development.  We apologize for this situation and want to assure you that we, in conjunction with SB Tactical® and the National Rifle Association (NRA®), are doing everything in our power to resolve this matter amicably for all parties involved.

Regards,

Adam Johnson, CEO

comments

  1. avatar Gales says:

    They’re going after pistol braces now!!!!

    1. avatar D Y says:

      Yes, what makes the Honey Badger any different than any other AR pistol with a brace??

      1. avatar Gales says:

        I did read the letter and it states that the full length is 20-25 inches and not 26 inches so I’m thinking that’s where

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          I cannot imagine how that could be more stupid. You’re telling me it is too short to be a pistol, so it must be a short rifle instead? Come on, see if you can dream up anything stupider! Hey, my LC9 isn’t 26″ long, does that mean it is also an SBR?

        2. avatar JUST THE FACTS! says:

          Pistols don’t need to be 26 inches!

        3. avatar Rando says:

          No, they are also going after the sugar weasel, and the mini fix. This appears to indicate that they are going after pistol braces at large.

      2. avatar Fred says:

        The “Honey Badger” has a “custom made pistol brace” different than other SB Tactical braces. It seems that the bats are using this insignificant difference to re-con-screw “the intent” of its use to become a “shoulder stock” rather than an “arm brace”. This is purely speculation as no one really knows what goes on inside a bat’s brain.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      I told you guys this would happen the moment Trump opened his mouth. It was a sealed deal once he ordered the ATF to do his dirty work. But everyone said it as okay because bumpstocks are range toys.

      Elections have consequences.

      Wait until Trump gets another 4 years to make things a little more impossible to win. He won’t be constrained once the midterms are over.

      1. avatar CarlosT says:

        Oh, but things are going to be awesome with Democrats in control of Congress and Biden in the White House, right?

        1. avatar MDH says:

          “Oh, but things are going to be awesome with Democrats in control of Congress and Biden in the White House, right?”

          ^^^ Touche’! Bingo!

          Now stop slobbering, and whining over ATF’s arbitrary and capricious rulings, put together lawsuits that will settle this and other questions once and for all, and throw your support behind Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination, because this question will ultimately be decided in the Supreme Court.

        2. avatar corey says:

          @MDH I’d rather eat glass than show my support for a woman who’s so invested in religion she has been a ‘handmaid’ in the Christian group People of Praise

      2. avatar Big Bill says:

        There is no “Not Trump” box to check on your ballot.
        Effectively, it’s either Trump or Biden.
        And we know Biden’s stance on guns because he’s told us.
        Trump’s far from perfect, but his stance on guns is far, far better than Biden’s.
        And don’t get me started on Harris.

        1. avatar MLee says:

          Oh by all means, what about Harris???

        2. avatar doesky2 says:

          You mean “Super Spreader” Harris?

        3. avatar StLPro2A says:

          As for decades, having to vote for the lesser of two evils. America has been over run.

      3. avatar Paul says:

        OK, you “told us”. So, what are the alternatives? Vote Democrat, with all the crazy democrats promising us that they are coming for our guns? Do we prefer Beatoff O’Cork to be in charge of gun confiscations?

        Trump and his Supreme Court nominees are the best thing going for gun owners today. There really is no alternative if you support the 2nd Amendment.

    3. avatar Eileen Moore says:

      Democrats, every single one needs to be voted out of office and out of our school system!!
      No excuses. They are destroying our country

      1. avatar TC says:

        LOL, Democrats? Both parties are using gun control to leverage votes. Republicans had complete control of the government for 2 years and didn’t do shit. Why? Because they need the gun control boogeyman to scare people into voting.

        1. avatar Brasstard says:

          Republicans did do something, they stopped Hearing Protection Act and National Reciprocity!

        2. avatar Archangel says:

          They didn’t have “control” of both houses – they had way too many freaking RINOs (aka Dems) to get anything meaningful passed on these fronts

        3. avatar Paul says:

          Why did they do little or nothing? Because “Supreme Court”. We need a Supreme that is overwhelmingly pro 2A to get much of anything done. I don’t even like Trump, but I appreciate what he has done for the Supreme Court. I hope he gets 4 more years, and two or three more appointments to the SC.

      2. avatar Corey says:

        https://i.imgur.com/adqfWex.jpg

        have you been under a rock the past 3 years? you’re really going to be surprised when you see the facts.

        dEmOcRaTs, EvErY SiNgLe oNe nEeDs tO Be vOtEd oUt oF OfFiCe aNd oUt oF OuR ScHoOl sYsTeM!!

  2. avatar American Patriot says:

    So just 1 question: Why?
    Why is this an SBR while the other 8″ – 10 1/2 ” barrel AR’s Pistols What is the difference?

    1. avatar Gales says:

      Probably because it’s not 26 inches.

      1. avatar Doug says:

        Exactly so. The ATF considers it “concealable” if it’s under 26″, that makes the brace verboten.

        1. avatar FedUp says:

          But, my 1911 is under 26″, concealable, and a “pistol”.
          What’s the difference between that and an AR pistol, the arm brace?
          I thought the whole point of the brace was to make it a pistol, not a SBR?

        2. avatar Mad Max says:

          I think it’s because it’s under 26 in. with the brace fully extended in a position that can be shouldered and fired.

          If you have a 7.5 in. AR pistol upper with a SBA-3 and a Law Tactical folder, the pistol is concealable but cannot be fired with the stock folded.

          With the stock unfolded and extended, it is now shoulderable but it is over 26 in. long (i.e. – not an SBR).

          If I’m correct, they could take the Honey Badger and change the muzzle device with a longer one that is pinned and welded and solve the problem.

          What a bunch of silly technical games. The SCOTUS should rule that the 2nd Amendment is not subject to silly technical games.

      2. avatar Mad Max says:

        So the requirement to be a pistol is a LOP of 13.5 in. or less and an OAL of 26 in. or greater with the brace fully extended?

        1. avatar Anthony Salem says:

          Shall. Not. Be. Infringed.

          The National Firearms Act is repugnant to the U.S. Constitution and on its face is null and void.

          It feels REALLY good to say the above, but now we just have to hope and wait for the Supreme Court to say the same thing. Augh.

        2. avatar Grumpy F'er says:

          WA State is looking to ban any pistol over 50oz.

          So far, they haven’t managed that. HOWEVER, the left controls both houses, the Gov, and the pending Lt. Gov (very likely winner this nov…D vs D election) will be supreme douche bag globo-C licker Denny Heck. He hates guns.

        3. avatar Sobeit says:

          You are correct on the LOP issue. It looks like the pistol may have a longer LOP. They used the same hardware with the exception of the brace.

    2. avatar Scott C. says:

      I see this as a test case to see if they can get away with it and use it as justification to go after every ar pistol.

      1. avatar Rando says:

        Agreed. They are also targeting the sugar weasel, and the mini fix in the letter.

    3. avatar Jim jones says:

      The ATF changed the ruling last year. They now measure from the muzzle to the end of the bufffer tube. They don’t use the brace because it doesn’t need to be on it to fire the weapon. If you have a compensator or brake it needs to be pinned and welded into place then it is permanent on the weapon. Play the game with the rules they have in place

      1. avatar American Patriot says:

        That has nothing to do with this! As the honey badger is no longer or shorter than any other AR pistol!

  3. avatar George Washington says:

    Un fkn real…. more filthy handed government overreach…..
    When will “the people” learn….

  4. avatar Miner49er says:

    Yes, Donald Trump‘s ATF is securing more rights for you as American gun owners!

    The upcoming ban on this short-barreled rifle it’s just another feature of expanding your rights, brought to you by Donald Trump and the Republican party.

    Thanks to the popular success of the bump stock ban and generally well received announcement by Trump about “taking the guns first and worrying about the courts later“ have reassured American gun owners that Donald Trump is in your corner!

    Remember, you wouldn’t even own a pistol brace or a bump stock if that dastardly Obama‘s administration had not approved these items for possession and use by American citizens.

    Thanks to Donald Trump‘s ATF, you will soon be relieved of the burden of ownership of not only bump stocks but pistol braces as well.

    Hail Trump! Hail victory!

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Pretty sure the atf has been doing that long before you or trump was alive… Just sayin

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        The ATF is an executive branch. The executive in question is Trump.

        Donald Trump: more successful at gun control than Obama. And what was gained in return? Zero legislation. House, Senate and WH all controlled by the ‘pro 2nd’ party and not even a bone was thrown.

        If this isn’t a good argument for split voting, I don’t know what is.

        1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “Donald Trump: more successful at gun control than Obama. And what was gained in return? Zero legislation. House, Senate and WH all controlled by the ‘pro 2nd’ party and not even a bone was thrown.”

          Your hate is showing, Hannibal.

          Here’s what we got gun-wise, from Trump :

          1 – Scalia’s SCOTUS seat not going to a Leftist like Kagan.

          2 – Kennedy’s vacant seat not going to a Leftist like Sotomayor.

          3 – Ginsberg’s seat not going to a Leftist.

          Do you seriously believe 2A rights would gain ground with Hillary Clinton making 3 fucking SCOTUS pics?

        2. avatar TC says:

          Ranked-choice voting would totally transform this country.

        3. avatar Montana Actual says:

          so… the atf just never took away rights before trump? Not sure you understood my point and thought this comment section should all the sudden be trump based. Fail. The “pro 2nd crowd” is not pro ATF, or pro president for that matter. Maybe you are talking about FUDDS?

    2. avatar Mad Max says:

      Biden will be so much better. Not!

      Maybe the ATF is in need of cash. Short-barreled rifles are legal with a tax stamp. You can always fill out the forms and pay the $200. They aren’t banning them but they just might be planning to tax them.

      Might as well set up a trust and throw in a few supressors…

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        However the SBR doesn’t enjoy the same flexibility as do pistols, looks as Q and S&B Tact. will have to rework the brace to make the Honey Badger compliant.
        That said the NFA and the F of ATF are un Constitutional in the first place.

        1. avatar rt66paul says:

          The A and the T aren’t constitutional, either.

      2. avatar Ballistic Idiot says:

        You haven’t checked the availability of cans lately, have you? BTW, it sucks.

    3. avatar MtnDewey says:

      don’t worry, once your boy gets in with kalamamamlalalama…you wont have to worry about any guns and the ATF will just be another Nazi group.

    4. avatar Ing says:

      JEOPARDY CATEGORY — LOGICAL FALLACIES

      Trump didn’t author or direct this ATF ruling, nor did Obama author or direct the previous pistol brace rulings.
      QUESTION: What is False Cause?

      You’ve ignored almost everything else both Trump and Obama have done regarding the Second Amendment.
      QUESTION: What is Cherrypicking? (Sometimes also called the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy)

    5. avatar totally a 2a supporter says:

      wtf i love biden now

    6. avatar Southern Cross says:

      As if the Democrats will be any better. F-Troop will be encouraged to make more decisions to restrict as much as possible.

    7. avatar Gook Nukem says:

      LMAO most underrated comment on this whole post

    8. avatar George says:

      So you think slow joe and his camel toe will stand up for your rights? Go ahead, drink some more of that tasty kool aid! Slow joe has stated many times that he will ban all so called assault weapons, or weapons of war, with mandatory buy backs. You must be one of those idiots that think it won’t affect you, think again.
      BTW, Odumbass banned the import of 5.56×39 ammo, banned the import of Philippine M1s, and the list goes on. So yea, Obama was an anti gun maggot just like every other liberal leftist nut job. This action by ATF is most likely because of the brace and its changes, it seems alot of companies are pushing the limit when these “pistol braces” are concerned. Trump might have a loud mouth, but he’s moving the country back to where it belongs, unlike any democrat could.

      1. avatar Bo says:

        It is NOT “liberal leftists” that pose a danger to firearm ownership rights! It is authoritarian elitists, whether they consider themselves liberal or conservative…Republican or Democrat! The “reason” the Conservatives on the Supreme Court keep refusing to even hear cases about states attitudes concerning modern sporting rifles (semi-automatic centerfire firearms with interchangeable box magazines) is because they too are authoritarian elites who don’t trust “we the people” with uninfringed firearm ownership…but DO trust our employees in law enforcement and the military to have and to use those firearms to protect the personal property, lives, and power structures of THE ELITE. AND SO DO YOU! YOU’RE JUST NOT QUITE ELITE ENOUGH!

  5. avatar MtnDewey says:

    fuck gun control bullshit!

  6. avatar Mystickal says:

    According to the ATF letter, they’re classifying it as a rifle because “The objective design features . . . .indicate the firearm is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder”

    Though, objectively, I’m not sure how they’re determining that – I saw no mention of what criteria they’re using to make that determination.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      Yeah, it’s got that belt to strap it to your arm because it’s designed to be shouldered.

      If this braced AR is not a pistol, what about the thousands of other braced AR pistols out there?

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      I’ll use a coat hanger as a brace and shoulder a glock with a drum mag… in california, just to spite these tyrants.

      Come and take them.

      1. avatar Bobo says:

        They’re planning on it…..

    3. avatar Anymouse says:

      From reading the letter, the Q uses a proprietary pistol brace on the Honey Badger, Sugar Weasel, and Mini Fix. The BATFE isn’t accepting as not designed to be fired from the shoulder, so they’re rifles, not pistols. In other words, they’re ruling it a stock instead of a pistol brace. There’s no explanation of why they consider it designed to be fired from the shoulder. Since the overall length is less than 26″ and the barrels are less than 16″, both lengths classify them as SBRs. As pistols, there would be no minimum requirements for barrel or overall length. This isn’t a ruling against pistol braces — just this particular design of pistol brace. Had they used an SB15 or other already approved pistol brace, they would have been ruled as pistols.

      1. avatar Tex300BLK says:

        Sugar Weasel uses an otherwise commonly available SBA-3 model from SB-Tactical special made for Q in their Grey color to match their guns.

      2. avatar FedUp says:

        Having now seen pictures of the back end of a Honey Badger, it does look more like a shoulder brace than a forearm brace. But what’s the objective standard for the shape of the back face of these things?

        Discussion at arfcom seems to hinge on the fact that the LOP is over 13″, like a man sized shoulder stock. The pics I’ve seen must be of one that’s retracted, because it doesn’t look 13″ to me.

        https://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=2376163&tl=ATF-Issues-Cease-and-Desist-for-Honey-Badger-Pistol

        1. avatar Cathammer says:

          My guess (and hope) is that it’s a LoP issue that shouldn’t affect other existing braces. As I understand it, technically, a pistol doesn’t have a length of pull. But one of the factors that makes a pistol brace a brace is that it’s deemed too short, even extended, to be “comfortably fired from the shoulder”. In the ATF opinion from 2017: ” With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a [pistol] as a forearm brace does not make a short-barreled rifle because the configuration as submitted to and approved by the ATF is not intended to be comfortably fired from the shoulder.”

          If you have a common adjustable pistol brace (SBA3, say), you may have noticed that the adjustment pin sits farther back in it than on a rifle buttstock, so even when mounted on a regular rifle buffer tube, the maximum extension is less, so it stays below the “comfortable” range envisioned by the ATF for a rifle stock (over 13″ to trigger?). I don’t know what type of stops the Honey Badger employs in its setup, but if it lets the back of the brace adjust farther than 13″ from the trigger face, that could be the issue.

          I have a folding stock adapter I plan to use on a pistol build with an SB brace. That will space the buffer tube back a bit. If it puts the maximum extension over 13″, I’m going to block the pin groove in the tube so the brace can’t go past the fifth position hole…epoxy or screw in a small piece of flat bar, maybe.

      3. avatar Olivia says:

        Well, they did the same thing with the Fostech SBV and they used a standard, off the shelf brace. The cherry-picking of who they “decide” against, well after many sales is interesting.

        Nothing about the BATFE makes sense.

  7. avatar John Doe says:

    Wasn’t August 3rd like two months ago? Did someone just forget about this for 60 days?

    1. avatar Baldwin says:

      They didn’t want to cause a panic?

  8. avatar Montana Actual says:

    Do. Not. Comply.

    And stop sharing your shit online until the ATF has their own dogs killed and their own rifles taken.

    Inb4 bootlickers say they are “just doing their job”.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Stop posting comments and photos of your stuff. Indeed. Bookface, Snoopchat, Twitster, Instagrab, etc.

      First rule about Fight Club…

      1. avatar Far Fig Nguyen says:

        If we have to hide them, it’s time to use them.

        1. avatar Jacques Four says:

          Agreed. Look a room full of gun owners and all talk, it’s time.

          There is no left or right, there is only 3 classes peasants, warriors and nobility. Time for peasants to call for the help from the warrior class, unify and force change.

          Plan is simple, we enforce the expulsion of ALL OF CONGRESS for acts of treason.

          We need to have a clear, calm message but we need to do it.

  9. avatar F the ATF (American Taxpayer Frauds) ATF can GFY says:

    Hey ATF (AMERICAN TAXPAYER FRAUDS)…..
    READ MY LIPS….. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED…..
    TAKE YOUR ILLEGAL LAWS AND SHOVE THEM STRAIGHT UP YOUR FILTHY A$$!

  10. avatar John in FL says:

    tick tick tick tick tick tick tick

  11. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    This is the definition of anarcho-tyranny. Honest citizens can’t know what the law is from one day to the next and thus can’t reasonably abide by it. The law changes on a whim without legislative action and people are retroactively made into criminals.

    This is the level of misgovernance that caused our forefathers to initiate the American Revolution.

    1. avatar rt66paul says:

      These changes in laws just reinforce the idea that lawbreaking is right, because the laws are all arbitrary. While this seems the be the case, some laws are there for the good of all.

  12. avatar Fred says:

    There is no mention of the Cease and Desist letter on Q’s website, only that the Honey Badger is sold out. That bothers me a bit, considering that this controversy is two months old.

    Like many others, I can see no rationale for the determination that it is designed to be fired from the shoulder. Perhaps it’s due to the similar appearance to their SBR stock?

  13. avatar GS650G says:

    This is how it’s going to go with president Harris next year. They are going to use new ATF regs to ban possession of a lot of gun configurations.

    Vote carefully, accordingly, and correctly.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      “This is how it’s going to go with president Harris next year.”

      This is happening this year, not next year and we’re talking about 4 years of President Trump not advancing gun rights 1 inch.

      The NRA, using your donations, put $30 million into trumps campaign, for what?

      “I like to take the guns fast.” “ Maybe we should just take the guns first and worry about the courts later.”

      And first bump stocks and now pistol braces, and this has nothing to do with Biden or Harris, all trumps administration.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        We’ll be so much better off with the left in charge. Rapey joe biden as the figurehead.

        Do I really need a sarcasm tag?

      2. avatar Montana Actual says:

        who’s donations? Did you just assume our political affiliation and stereotype us?

        the hypocrisy is laughable from you people.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      So we should vote Democrat because Republicans are too good at pass gun control? We shouldn’t vote Trump because he is the one that did what 8 years of Obama couldn’t?

      Well, under Trump the riots will get worse and covid will spread more because rioters won’t be wearing masks now that Trump said don’t be scared. His 4D chess will achieve heard immunity by 2021. Brilliant play to stop forced vaccines by the president.

      Now if only Trump can teach everyone how to spend their money like he does. We really need to fix this horrible economy and invest our next UBI Trump check well. But we have to vote for him first.

  14. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    You guys are acting like this is a surprise. I saw it coming years ago with the first ATF admin ruling.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      If Trump can order the NFA to ban bump stocks, Kamala can order it to ban all ARs not registered and taxed in 1986. It’s not like the actual text of the NFA means anything, nor the text of the Bill of Rights…

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Wait until the Democrats follow Trump’s lead and declare larger capacity mags weapons of mass destruction.

  15. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    I have long expected that the ATF would get around to doing this.

    The Bump stocks, and now I bet they go after braces at some point. Same method, they’ll just declare certain firearms as SBRs or Ss under NFA by a stroke of a pen. No Congress, no public comment they don’t control, just done.

    It’s not any Presidents fault, it’s the ATF that needs to be dealt with at the Congressional level and reigned in.

    Edit: Gadsden nailed it, this is not a surprise.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Who hired the man in charge of the ATF?

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Appointed… but irrelevant, because the ATF is gonna infringe no matter who “hires” them, right? And what, does your boss micromanage everything you do? Welcome to politics and infringements buddy… did you have a point? Please, go on.

    2. avatar rt66paul says:

      I think pistol braces will survive, even if they are limited to the handicapped. A rifle gives better control, longer range, bla, bla, bla. The only real reason to go with one of these, is if you are physically limited or want to conceal it. A bullpup weapon would be better in close areas than one of these.(just my thoughts)

      Making it illegal makes little sense, because if you want to conceal a firearm, there are many pistols that conceal much better. I was surprised when the ATF allowed the shoulder firing with one of these braces.

      1. avatar Bobo says:

        As with a lot of things the ATF has waffled on the shoulder thing – At one time you Couldn’t, then it was ok if it was “Occasional” or “Incidental” then the talk was they were going back to “Couldn’t”

  16. avatar Fosty says:

    Yeah well the constitution says SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Dems: “Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.”

  17. avatar John Paul says:

    Will the ATF now go after the TAC14, the Shockwave and any pistol with the brace?

    1. avatar Mercury says:

      Yes, that’s exactly what they will do. And then under the same logic they will go after all semiautomatics because they can be readily “redesigned” into machine guns with a belt loop, or a shoe string. They do this under the NFA and GCA, which are repugnant to the Constitution and are therefore, under the doctrine of Judicial Review outlined in the Marbury v. Madison opinion, null and void non-laws that may not be executed under color of law.

      It’s not a crime to posess an unregistered SBR, suppressor or machine gun, no matter how an organized crime group pretending to be a government agency defines it. It is not just your right but your duty as an American citizen to own at least one of these articles, especially when the so-called BATFE declares, with no legal authority whatsoever, pistol is an SBR, that every flash hider is a suppressor, and every autoloader is a machine gun. You do not have to wait for a court to say they can’t tell you that. BATFE saying it is no different from the Italian Mob saying it, and their soldiers enforcing it should be treated in exactly the same way.

      1. avatar Greg says:

        That sounds good my friend.
        And i would tend to agree…
        BUT….
        Tell that to folks doing the time.

        If your gonna play, play Upright.
        You’ll know when those rules change.

        1. avatar George Washington says:

          I can assure you’re no friends to him, or any other TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT…..

          You can try the government SHILL BS if you want, but True American Patriots aren’t swayed by your shilling or the government’s illegal overreach….

          This BS with the American Taxpayer Frauds organization is just that, BULL$HIT!
          No real American pays any attention to the crap coming from this tyrannical government organization….

          You can lick those boots all day for all I care…..

          I’ll continue my MOLON LABE attitude…..

  18. avatar NORDNEG says:

    A T F needs to go away… &
    “”” FREE KYLE”””

  19. avatar Big says:

    Winter I’d coming!

  20. avatar Chris says:

    This was just a matter of time, we all know braced pistols are mostly used for shouldering. Not in support of any ban but you’re stupid or a liar if you say you are surprised. The only good is it happened to a company who is selling overpriced garbage.

    1. avatar George Floyd's ghost says:

      You fkn dichead….. you like your boot licking with dog $hit, or without?

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Lets play: How to spot the poor jealous PSA budget builder.
      “But it can do the same stuff”

  21. avatar Specialist38 says:

    Main reason I never bought one of these things……damned ATF can wake up in funk and change their classification.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Pretty sure that’s the only reason I don’t register SBR’s too… Just sayin. Open carried one multiple times this year too.

  22. avatar cali boy lawrence says:

    thanks trump

  23. avatar The Patriot says:

    Fuck the atf. Fuck all gun laws. All gun laws are an infringement. Shall not infringe…will not comply.

  24. avatar Carl R says:

    The manufacturer posted video of people shooting the pistol from a shouldered position. If you push the envelope and test the limits of a legality, you make it appear that you are daring ATF to do something. One of the most recent ATF opinions states that “occasional” shouldering of the brace is ok. The manufacturer showing video of the weapon being shouldered can lend to the argument that one is using that as a selling point that the weapon is designed to be shouldered, and therefore the ruling.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      Correct, but few will admit this important point.

  25. avatar Scott Thomas Loutner says:

    They know it’s not an SBR. They’re harassing you, to delay you and get in your bank account

  26. avatar JB says:

    Just plain stupid. Stupid.
    They remind me of children the way they just williy nilly change there minds about there past conclusions.

    On another interesting note.

    DO NOT pay the NFA Tax stamp with a CC.
    USE a check or something like that.

    I had some come back from DOJ, They are being flagged by CC companies as Fraudulent charges.

    “Credit Card Denied”

    As told to me by a nice lady today there today.
    the 200$ Is being seen by them, over and over, and is there excuse for denial of CC charge.

    They’ll blame there AI or whatever they use to do that fraud shtuff with.

    If you know a dealer….inquire.
    I have NEVER had this problem.

    And today….i get 3 back like that. 3 That were sent in last month.

    Investigate, do not take my word for it.
    Just throwing my experience out there.

    I am now advising all customers of this.

    Good Luck

  27. avatar JL says:

    This is action against the 2nd Amendment from Trump’s Administration. These Rights were expanded under the Obama Administration… Obama = More Pro Gun than Trump.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      Yep.

      Check out the Credit CARD Act of 2009, passed by a Democrat majority in Congress, and signed into law by Barack Hussein Obama.

      Specifically, Section 512, “Protecting Americans from Violent Crimes,” it dismantles all existing federal restrictions on firearm possession for visitors to the national park system outside Alaska. State laws — including concealed carry statutes — would govern national forest areas instead.”

      Don’t worry, if we reelect Typhoid Trump he’ll roll that back like he did bump stocks and pistol braces.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        A rare example of bipartisan legislation. I can guarantee you that the Democrats weren’t responsible for the part of it that actually advanced Second Amendment rights.

        I suppose Obama being pro-gun is why he didn’t go for an “assault weapons” ban after Sandy Hook and Trump banned AR-15s after the Las Vegas massacre. (Wait, no…)

        Sarcasm aside, it’s true that Trump screwed us all on bump stocks, and I’m not forgetting it. I never liked him and still don’t trust him.

        But weighing the whole of what he’s done in his 4 years versus Obama’s 8 (plus 4 years of sedition from his administrative acolytes), and what a Biden/Harris ticket promises, I’m pulling the lever for Trump. And I’d do it twice if I could.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          You’d be a democrat if you voted twice. Or after you died.

        2. avatar Cathammer says:

          Yeah, the things obama did on his own were stuff like “Fast and Furious” and “Operation Choke Point”, and banning re-importation of historic American-made M1s from S. Korea. Just because there were some anti-gun measures he couldn’t manage by himself doesn’t make him better than Trump.

        3. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Without Trump the NRA would still be alive and kicking. Democrat politicians are so happy Trump exposed the NRA and destroyed them with his 4D chess. When the Democrats win they will have zero organized and active opposition and they will have the power Trump took away from congress to redefine things. Trump gave Kamala the strategy for success on passing major federal gun control without congress, something Obama could not succeed at doing no matter how hard the ATF tried.

    2. avatar An American says:

      Wow, you must be loving that kool aid! What about all the ammo Obozo banned from importation? What about all the rifles banned from importation- that is already owned by the US? Take off your blinders and look at the truth, Obama is a traitor to the constitution, and if you think slow joe and his camel toe will work on the side of gun owners, your a complete moron.. get a clue troll..

  28. avatar Truckmant says:

    that is the reason I have not bought but two pistols from a dealer in over 25 years and the ones before that was from a dealer that is out of business and what few records she had is in some warehouse somewhere a lot of my guns are gifts from many years ago and the people that gave them to me have passed away so I own 2 pistols is all I own

  29. avatar DJ says:

    ALL THIS B.S IS INFRIGMENT ESPECIALLY TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SMALL , WEAK ,AND OR DISABLED! NEEDS TO BE COUNTERED BY THE AMERICANS WITH DISABLITIES ACT! PASS THIS ON!

  30. avatar sound awake says:

    ive never supported the atf on anything and i wish somebody would do to it what was rumoured that jfk wanted to do to the cia…splinter it into a thousand pieces and cast it to the winds…
    having said that:
    an adjustable pistol brace to me just always seemed *a bit too good to be true*
    thats why i never bought one
    instead i have a shockwave a strike industries and most recently an mft brace
    the distance between the palm of the hand and the general area on the forearm where the brace contacts it is essentially the same for just about everybody and therefore making it adjustable makes it almost exactly like a stock
    and then they went and really hurt themselves by showing videos of the weapon being shouldered…
    it is what it is:
    they flew too close to the sun on wax wings
    and it bit them

    1. avatar Tejas Customs says:

      This is simple… Less than 30 days till the election… Trump made the mistake of leaving Obama era ATF people in office… 3 to 4 million pistol braces sold to mostly 2A Trump supporters… Lets take “em away” and piss off the 2A supporters that always vote Republican. Just another Dem tactic! If were not careful we wont have AR’s to attach these braces on…

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        Sorry pal, your disinformation won’t fly.

        Not only did Donald Trump appoint the current acting director of the ATF, he’s also giving her more power and set up a structure for the ATF to cooperate with police in taking your guns:

        “ATF Acting Director Regina Lombardo Appointed by United States Attorney General William P. Barr to the Presidential Commission on Law Enforcement and the Administration of Justice
        WASHINGTON — During a ceremony today in Washington, D.C., ATF Acting Director Regina Lombardo was appointed by Attorney General William P. Barr to the Presidential Commission on Law Enforcement and the Administration of Justice. On Oct. 28, 2019, President Donald J. Trump signed Executive Order No. 13896, authorizing and designating the Attorney General to create such a Commission… “

        Y’all has been snookered by a New York City ConMan. He used your fear and prejudice to manipulate the American population into supporting his self centered power grab and you fell for it.

        The democrat controlled Congress, under Barack Hussein Obama, expanded your gun rights to cover millions of acres of federally managed lands.

        But you cannot acknowledge the role that Barack Hussein Obama played in expanding your gun rights because he’s not an old white guy who shares your hatred of minorities.

        And, as collateral damage, will soon have a quarter of a million Americans dead in a pandemic that Donald Trump refuses to acknowledge even has the white house is infested with sick and dying people.

        Yep, Donald Trump is going to rock you like a Herman Cain…

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          plug that hole in your head, it’s leaking diseases.

  31. avatar NoDak says:

    Anyone with half a brain could see that the legality of pistol braces was the equivalent of a jolopy held together with duct tape and string. Yet people flocked to hitch their wagons to it and are now suddenly SHOCKED that the jolopy is breaking down and leaving them stranded.

    Yes the NFA is stupid. Brace supporters are also stupid for hitching their wagons to a jolopy. They wasted years of time that could have been spent popularizing NFA.

  32. avatar Bill says:

    The 2nd Amendment doesn’t apply to semi-auto rifles, nor does it apply to Bolt Action Rifles, Pistols or Revolvers.

    The Second Amendment restricts Government.

    The Technology of the Firearm is irrelevant.

    The restrictions on Government stay the same, regardless of the firearm.

    The Second Amendment was not written to grant permission for Citizens to own and Bear firearms.

    It FORBIDS Government interference in the RIGHT to keep and Bear Arms, PERIOD!

    “The Right of the People to keep and bear Arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”

  33. avatar Steve Dallas says:

    Oh no! My penis extender is illegal now! Waaaaaah!

  34. avatar Roymond says:

    Given the dimensions, that’s not conceivably a rifle for anyone over about three foot six inches tall.

  35. avatar MtnDewey says:

    it doesn’t matter who is POTUS, watch Ruby Ridge and Waco. The FBI and ATF are jack booted Nazis and will do what they are told. The POTUS position is more effecting with all the other issues. You people are out of touch….oh and the idiot regarding her as a hand maiden girl because she doesn’t believe in abortion? you might as well be a hard core dem….and a murderer as well.

  36. avatar Jacques Four says:

    So let’s get organized. I mean, we all see it. Let’s just force the law makers out, demand term limits then and only then we stand down.

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