TTAG contributor and I.C.E. Training proprietor Rob Pincus is running for a seat on the National Rifle Association board of directors. As he details at his web site, Rob figures being elected would enable him “to reach more people and, possibly, effect more change and positive movement. If elected, I would also do what I could to make the organization itself more responsive to the issue that I care most about in our community: Training, Education and Educating America’s Middle Ground on the Right to Keep & Bear Arms and what it means to be a Responsible Firearms Owner.” Here’s his statement on his positions regarding open carry, constitutional carry and mandatory gun training . . .
Over the last few weeks, since I announced that I am running for the 76th Seat on the National Rifle Association’s Board of Directors, I have been ask to state or clarify my position on several topics. The three most frequent and relevant questions have been about topics related to training and carrying defensive firearms. While I have certainly opined on these issues before, I thought it would be helpful to put my thoughts into one article as people are making up their minds about whether or not to vote for me and/or support my campaign for a seat on board of the most important organization in our national fight to regain our 2nd Amendment Rights. In addition to my statements here, I’ve included links to some videos from the past that I have made that support & explain my positions.
Open Carry
While almost all of the public commentary I’ve seen since my announcement has been positive, the issue of Open Carry has been referenced in a handful of negative posts around the internet. The fact is that I have offended more than a couple of people over the past few years by clearing stating that I do not think confrontational open carry activism is the way to keep the Right to Keep and Bear Arms movement moving forward. Unfortunately, when I say ” I’m against confrontational open carry activism”, some people hear “I’m against open carry of a firearm being legal.” What am I actually talking about ? I’m talking about the guys who wear ARs and AKs slung over their shoulders and go to the mall, often without so much as a legitimate shopping agenda. I’m talking about the guys wearing camouflage and long guns walking through city parks because they can. I’m talking about the guy who took a shotgun to the public library and sat down to read in the children’s section “just because he could.” I’m talking about the countless videos of people made of themselves being “harassed” by local police after they purposefully put on a gun and carried the video camera looking for a confrontation (yes, these are specifically the people who got the right to OC even an unloaded gun taken away from us in California… a state that has just recently seen a massive turn towards Shall Issue Carry Permits!).
My stance on OC Activism has its roots in one simple statement: I believe that guns should be carried for the purpose of defending yourself or others. That’s it… pretty simple, right? I don’t think that putting a gun on your hip so that you can educate someone is a good idea. I certainly don’t think that Pro-Safety, Pro-Defense and Anti-Crime individuals should be consciously distracting local police officers from dealing with more important issues than someone poorly exercising a legal right. There are many ways to educate people about the legitimacy of carrying a gun. Wear a t-shirt, get a tattoo, hand out flyers on the street corner. Worried about educating local police about legal rights (firearms or otherwise)? Prepare a presentation and ask to speak to a shift meeting or address a collection of supervisors. That doesn’t work? Fine, again, prepare a flyer with code sections, citations and helpful pictures then give one to every police officer you see. 5 minutes of solid thought should be able to yield many options to make a difference that don’t revolve around the combination of a lethal device and confrontation. As for the legality of Open Carry, I am 100% all for it and you can’t find an example of me ever stating otherwise. As for Open Carry being a good option for guns that are carried for personal defense, I don’t think that it is a good idea. A quick google search will reveal that just about every instructor in the industry is in agreement on this issue and the reasons are many. For more of my thoughts on the issue, as pertains to defensive firearms, check out these videos:
“Constitutional Carry”
I am 100% for the right of anyone who can legally own a firearm to be allowed to legally carry it for defensive purposes. That is how I interpret a state not requiring anyone to obtain a special permit to carry a firearm. Vermont, Alaska and, most recently, Arizona allow this to happen and most of us in the RKBA Community refer to this as “Constitutional Carry”… the opportunity to carry a firearm without “infringement”. Of course, to suggest that a 100% literal interpretation of “shall not be infringed” line is an option isn’t very realistic either. Clearly, even the most die hard pro-gun advocate isn’t going to suggest free legal access to firearms for a convicted violent felon or a clearly mentally unstable person. I won’t simply wave around a copy of the Bill of Rights to justify my support of Constitutional Carry. I believe that Carry Permit Laws exists to tax and inconvenience people who are seeking to exercise their right, and meet their responsibility, to be capable of defending themselves. I do not think that the process involved in getting a concealed carry permit has any significant positive effect on gun safety, crime prevention or the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. While this entire video is only available to PDN Premium Members, you can get the point of my position in the Free Preview: http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/vtag/constitutional-carry/
Mandatory Gun Training
As someone who’s primary source of income for most of his adult life has been teaching people defensive firearms skills, it surprises some people that I am Against Mandatory Firearms Training in order to own, purchase or carry a firearm of any kind. I am unaware of any state mandated program that meets the total amount of education I think someone should get before they choose to carry a firearm for defense. Presentation from the Holster, for example, is a fundamental skill that anyone and everyone should develop before they ever believe that it is appropriate for them to carry a firearm in public for defensive purposes. Yet, how many state permit processes require it? If you talked to 10 instructors, you’d get 10 different lists of things that any reasonable person should learn and practice before carrying a gun. I honestly have no faith in an administrative bureaucracy to develop an adequate mandated course that would be practical on the scale necessary. If I were given the choice tomorrow between establishing a national standard and designing it myself or abolishing training requirements, I would choose the latter. I believe that when you give someone a certificate of training (especially with a permit to do something) those people often believe that they have met their obligation, that the obligation was designed appropriately and they do not need to do anything else. Put simply: Most people have too much faith in the Government. They operate under the illusion that simply because their state trusts the process, the process must be good enough. I think that if you take away that illusion, if you take away the opportunity for people to believe that they have done enough, people will seek out more training than could ever be mandated. I think the surge in public opinion inside the firearms community about the value of getting thorough professional training and conducting relatively frequent practice would be overwhelming. Counter-Intuitively, I believe that removing mandatory minimum training would result in an over-all increase in the average amount of training and practice that people carrying guns have.
Disagree? Hear from a couple of students that I had (in Arizona) a few months ago on why they have sought out training beyond what is required and/or offered by the government:
Let’s step away from CCW Permits and Defensive Carry for a moment, what about general firearms safety education? I am For Mandatory Firearms Safety Education for Children in our Public School System. For well over a decade, I have lamented the public education industry’s position on the danger of firearms being completely inconsistent with their position on any other “dangerous” topic. Drugs? Danger=Education. Smoking? Danger=Education. Sexually Transmitted Disease? Danger=Education. Guns? Danger=Demonization. Those who establish the standards for our children’s education in our country would honestly rather talk about sex with middle schoolers than guns. And, if the kids themselves talk about guns, then they will get punished in one way or another… “for their own safety”. It’s ridiculous and it is a hypocritical position that is untenable in the face of any logical inquiry or critical thought. Yes, of course, guns can be dangerous… our kids should be educated about them at least as equally as they are educated about drugs, cars, fire and running with scissors.
Id take Pincus over WLP as far as a face to help normalize and educate about firearms. Good to see people in the gun community taking action.
> what it means to be a Responsible Firearms Owner
I don’t believe he is restating his position on open carry accurately. He has stated before that simply open carrying a pistol is not being a responsible firearms owner. He fits right in with the NRA who is also against open carry. They are prohibiting it at their convention in Indy next month, although they are stating that they are following Indiana law. Since IN law allows open carry, we are trying to get clarification on what exactly they will do when people show up open carrying. So far, no response to that particular question.
Put simply: Most people have too much faith in the Government. They operate under the illusion that simply because their state trusts the process, the process must be good enough
I think I’m in love….
Around [urban youth], never [take it easy].
He doesn’t oppose gun rights but he doesn’t fight for them either. Couple that with the suspicious tie in between who donates to his campaign and who gets our small business development grants and I’m unimpressed with him.
Rob pretty much sums up my feelings on the subjects above. He’s got my vote.
Rob, just curious about something. I have been told by someone who knows you that you don’t even carry a gun 300 days out of the year. Is that true? This is something that might influence someone’s vote .
Danny, what is your connection to Michigan Open Carry, Inc. ?
Also readers should be aware that Danny Griffin is one of the OC fanatics that goes out of his way to provoke confrontations with LEOs and private citizens. Just Google him.
What an odd statement. I’ve never gone out of my way to provoke confrontations with LEOs or private citizens. In fact, I’ve never had a single one. In open carrying daily for over three years, I’ve never even had a police officer approach me. All my citizen encounters have been positive. But truthfully, most don’t even notice.
Yeah, google me. Maybe you’ll read some of my pieces published on Ammoland or elsewhere. 🙂 How about you?
Dannie, in fact, you are a charter member of MOC, having joined it in 2009. MOC has as part of its methods public gatherings with open carrying to desensitize the public and members of the LEO.
It is my opinion that this kind of activity is an irresponsible OC activity.
So maybe next time you go after Pincus you will be a bit more forthcoming about your biases here.
How many votes do you get? I know Joe Debergalis and Todd Rathner are good too… and they’re already on the ballot. I think Pincus would be a write in. Is that correct?
I can agree with all of that, although I think organized open carry rallies can be helpful, as opposed to random people walking around with guns provoking the populace.
I sure like Rob’s videos too.
BTW, one person to beware of who wants to run for the board is former SEAL Brandon Webb. I hate to badmouth anyone, but some of his positions are completely unacceptable.
Clarification: Webb intends to run next year.
Wait.. They seized all the guns in the house? Makes me wonder if the parents had the guns well secured? Probably not..
Rob gets my vote.
I have used a Colt Defender on my farm for ten or so years without a fail. I carry it open on my hip on the tractor so it sees a lot of dust and grit and it just keeps on trucking. My only complaint is the aluminum frame, it just feels wrong somehow. I am going back for a Commander in full stainless (slide and frame, none of this lets make it lighter crapola) and I will get the same service as the Defender. I did put titanium pins in the Defender to avoid any electrolysis between the iron and the aluminum, and to keep the need to oil it down to a minimum due to tractor dust. ALL of the complaints here are about simple dislike for a brand or model. ( I have a Glock 36 that has just been a paperweight in my office for 10 years) To me, I just like seeing the pony on it, it makes me feel safe and warms my heart some.
Robert Seddon
That thing looks like it is half bear. Look at the fur!
If I shot that thing we would dig a pit in my back yard, fill it with coals, bury the pig and invite the entire neighborhood to my backyard luau in Kansas. That thing would feed them all and send them packing with leftovers. And because its Kansas, the whole neighborhood would show up and talk about the guns we use to put food on the table. For hours.
I moved here from CA nine years ago and you know what? Kansas is awesome. You folks in CT, NY CA, MD and IL should move on out. It is pretty amazing to live in a place where the small minority has gun-O-phobia. I will never move back to CA.
How is the job market out there?
There are jobs. I don’t think its like TX or ND where the job market is exceptional, but there are jobs. I drive a tractor-trailer reefer, and my income is in the 60K range. In CA that didn’t amount to anything, but out here its very comfortable. I bought a house (fixer-upper) for 37K nine years ago. Its almost paid off completely. Mortgage payment is $500 and I rent it out now for $750/mo. SO, financially, the housing market in KS makes living here way more doable than many other places in the country.
To me, the best part is $17 tags for world class whitetail. and they are EVERYWHERE. I even see them inside the city limits all the time. I never buy meat at the store anymore. My freezer is stocked with non-gmo, grass fed, organic venison at a total cost of about $1/lb. So good.
I could easily get behind you, Rob. No, not that way. Okay, well, maybe not ever, but we’ve just met.
Sure, I’m not in 100% agreement with everything, but I sure as hell don’t agree with Wayne all the time either, and I’m still paying my dues.
For those who take issue with your open carry stance, which I can understand, I offer this: Once we’ve successfully beaten back at least some of the other ways the control establishment has hit us with, Open Carry can take a front seat and we can work it. But as it sits right now, the fact that if I needed my carry gun right this second, I’d have to sprint to the parking lot first, or most people on this blogs kids’ are sitting in a classroom with nothing but well wishes and happy thoughts keeping them safe, I’ say we’ve got some higher priorities to tackle first.
I’m not saying it isn’t important, or a fundamental right, because it’s both of those things, but we’ve really got to stop the thoracic bleeding injury before we set that broken leg.
Hell yeah Maryland!!!
Also we have an energized and organized 2A community here in the “Free State”. Check out MDShooters.com and Maryland Shall Issue.
Hey, Madison Wisconsin – liberal heartland of Wisconsin, home of a wonderfully sensitive and caring university – also known as “The Sexual Predators Paradise”, due to large numbers of liberal, unarmed, gun-fearing female college students. And what is the recommended solution to heinous, evil actions like this?
Dane County’s Victim/Witness Assistance program is helping the couple recover from the incident and hopes the community will provide support and stay positive. “We don’t see senseless brutality like this very often,” says Julie Foley with that group. “We can help facilitate recovery just by being the community that we are.”
Yeah, that will really help stop this kind of evil. Feckless idiots.
Nice platform.
Forget board member…I want him to be the president!
Logical advice. Would you attempt to put a fixed blade back in a belt sheath without looking to see what you’re doing? Could cut yourself.
From the article, best newspaper typo so far today: “The bill (A2006), which was approved by a 5-3 vote along party ->lies<- after a three-hour-long hearing……"
How many people have been busted thanks to their need to film and post their adventures? Bunches(it’s a scientific term, look it up). Love it when people are to stupid to not get caught.
Snitches get stiches. What are we, a bunch of inner city yoots listening to rap?
I think everyone here is missing the bigger picture. The fact that
a poli-sci grad is not only sane but has the ability to use logic
is a major upheaval.
I wouldn’t vote for Pincus if he was running unopposed. He’s nothing more than a tactical FUDD.
Just look up “Wild boar” hoaxes.
Particularly “Conroe Texas”, or “Nature Tours”!
Same pig.
Old hat.
Defensive caliber? It seems to me that Jones was the aggressor, and came armed–inadequately to be sure–to the party. Was turner supposed to correctly guess the caliber of a rifle being brandished by an angry man who was demanding money? Or was it reasonable for him assume that Jones presented a reasonable risk of imminent bodily harm? Drunk or not, there seems to be evidence to support a DGU.
Vincent D’Onofrio?
Seven-six-two millimeter. Full metal jacket.
Ah sweet Sig.
If they do that, I’ll run a second gas line on Maurice as an auto-cocker. The first full-auto mag-fed single action revolver. Hell yeah.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/03/03/maurice-frankenruger-magazine-fed-revolver
IMO, the issue is that most shooters ,myself included, can’t justify what benefit a full auto weapon provides versus a semi auto counterpart.
Setting aside the 2nd Amendment infringement issue, on a practical level I could care less about full auto anything. It would be like Washington banning the importation of Lamborghinis. It would have zero day to day effect on my life. So what if Lambos are a million dollars apiece because of an import embargo. Makes no difference when my commuting machine is a Metro train.
On another level, we have more important issues to fight in the short term.What good does full auto legalization do a New Jersey resident who can’t even buy two revolvers in six months.
Get nationwide CCW passed, and let’s get rid of state level rosters and cross border FFL requirements. Then we can work on the esoteric stuff like getting full auto guns off the NFA.
Actually the Lamborghini Coutach was originally banned due to NHTSA/EPA regulations. They were imported under a grey market provision so vendors could make them legal.
I too want machine-guns, if you ever really looked at them they are not all that difficult. My FAL is a few weld blobs, ~1/4in of extra metal, and a ~$13 “safety sear” away from select-fire… oh so tempting, but then I would have to bury it 🙁
So other than “illegal” means I find it quite difficult to put ~5K into my budget so I can burn through ammo in a gun that I don’t really want but would get because it is “cheep”.
My solution is a state or even just a county work towards true freedom and Nullify the unconstitutional BS. My friend does not believe that machine gun owners will work to destroy the NFA or the registry because it would wipe out their “investments”. He also believes that the courts will just rule that we can not nullify the laws, but he does not seem to grasp the simplicity of it. You tell some one to F-off and they tell you that you cant tell them to, you make them F-off.
http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/07-290.pdf
From the orals before SCOTUS in Heller: (Solicitor General Clement was arguing in support of the DC gun ban)
JUSTICE SCALIA: But that opinion also, it didn’t use the militia prologue to say it’s only the kind of weapons that would be useful in militia, and that are commonly — commonly held today. Is there any Federal exclusion of weapons that applies to weapons that are commonly held today? I don’t know what you’re worried about. Machine guns, what else? Armored bullets, what else?
GENERAL CLEMENT: Well, Justice Scalia, I think our principal concern based on the parts of the court of appeals opinion that seemed to adopt a very categorical rule were with respect to machine guns, because I do think that it is difficult — I don’t want to foreclose the possibility of the Government, Federal Government making the argument some day — but I think it is more than a little difficult to say that the one arm that’s not protected by the Second Amendment is that which is the standard issue armament for the National Guard, and that’s what the machine gun is.
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: But this law didn’t involve a restriction on machine guns. It involved an absolute ban. It involved an absolute carry prohibition. Why would you think that the opinion striking down an absolute ban would also apply to a narrow one — narrower one directed solely to machine guns?
GENERAL CLEMENT: I think, Mr. Chief Justice, why one might worry about that is one might read the language of page 53a of the opinion as reproduced in the petition appendix that says once it is an arm, then it is not open to the District to ban it. Now, it seems to me that the District is not strictly a complete ban because it exempts pre-1976 handguns. The Federal ban on machine guns is not, strictly speaking, a ban, because it exempts pre -pre-law machine guns, and there is something like 160,000 of those.
JUSTICE SCALIA: But that passage doesn’t mean once it’s an arm in the dictionary definition of arms. Once it’s an arm in the specialized sense that the opinion referred to it, which is — which is the type of a weapon that was used in militia, and it is – it is nowadays commonly held.
GENERAL CLEMENT: Well –
JUSTICE SCALIA: If you read it that way, I don’t see why you have a problem.
GENERAL CLEMENT: Well, I — I hope that you read it that way. But I would also say that I think that whatever the definition that the lower court opinion employed, I do think it’s going to be difficult over time to sustain the notion — I mean, the Court of Appeals also talked about lineal descendants. And it does seem to me that, you know, just as this Court would apply the Fourth Amendment to something like heat imagery, I don’t see why this Court wouldn’t allow the Second Amendment to have the same kind of scope, and then I do think that reasonably machine guns come within the term “arms.” Now, if this Court wants to say that they don’t — I mean — I mean — we’d obviously welcome that in our — in our obligation to defend the constitutionality of acts of Congress. The one other thing I would say is that this is an opinion that is susceptible of different readings. It’s interesting that Respondents’ amici have different characterizations of it. The Goldwater Institute calls it strict scrutiny; the State of Texas calls it reasonable — reasonableness review.
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Thank you, General.
GENERAL CLEMENT: Thank you.
How would I feel? Pleased. And in fact, that has happened here in Austin, except that it was more like a dozen young men with rifles. That was probably the safest intersection in the state of Texas for that few minutes.
I certainly wouldn’t call a cop, though–somebody could get killed from doing that.
Where does probable cause fit into this? the “commander” claims the police have the right to stop you simply because you are open carrying to check that you are old enough, not a felon, not disabled? it is not a fully automatic (i added the last one).
this would be like pulling someone over in car who has broken no laws to check that they are old enough, that their license is not expired, that they have insurance, and that they don’t have a dead body in the back of their trunk.
the kid in the youtube video filed a lawsuit that was dismissed, however, the lorraine police department is doing extra training. <– this is what i want anyways. the primary reason lawsuits for money occur is because we, the people, can not get an individual public employee fired with a lawsuit. we can only go after the organization through money.
It is pompous asses like this one that we have a second amendment in the first place.
But can he buy a vote?
Notice how it’s the Witches that want to control the vocabulary?
Which brings us to the actual meme: Shrillary Clinton
Billions of damn dollars and he spends all his time trying to usurp our rights. Go play at the beach, Mike. And feel free to go for a dip immediately after eating.
Yet he still can get grassroots support like the NRA. So him spending millions of dollars is all for nothing. Just look at the wasted money he spent in Colorado for John Morse and Angela Giron. It didn’t keep them from getting kicked out of office.
When these moms demand action, it gets done!
Shannon “prank photo, my ass!” Watts and her team seek redress from Alan Brooks
For that price I can buy all three guns in different calibers. A bit too spendy.
Always clear the weapon, even if you take heat for clearing it
The OC fanatics out there apparently can’t even pause a moment to listen actually to what Rob Pincus has said, and is saying, about OC.
If any CCW holders are being treated unfairly – which seemed to be the case here – I recommend filing a complaint with specific grievances. The CHP has a relatively decent complaint policy. You could also not comply, but that has its own risks. Calling for a supervisor could also be totally appropriate.
There are so few carry permits in CA that some cops don’t handle it appropriately.