You may recall that we reported that Remington is recalling every Model 700 rifle made to refit the gun with a new trigger. Apparently not. Nope. It’s not a recall. It’s an “opportunity for any concerned consumers who have the Remington Model 700, Seven, Sportsman 78, 673, 710, 715, 770, 600, 660, XP-100, 721, 722 and 725 rifles with either a Walker trigger mechanism, or a trigger mechanism which utilizes a ‘trigger connector’ to have Remington install a new trigger.” The clarification hails from the Lanier Law firm via PR Newswire [full text after the jump]. The presser also proclaims that the court settlement announced on Friday was not an admission of guilt. Yes, well, see the official notice to customers above. Seems Remington didn’t get the memo . . .
HOUSTON, Dec. 6, 2014 /PRNewswire/ — On Dec. 5, 2014, papers were filed seeking approval of a proposed settlement of two economic class-action lawsuits of certain Remington bolt-action centerfire firearms that contain either a Walker trigger mechanism, or a trigger mechanism which utilizes a “trigger connector.”
The filings triggered multiple news reports that mistakenly conveyed the proposed agreement in significant fashions that require immediate clarification.
- These settlements are not recalls.
- These settlements are not any admission that the products are defective or unsafe.
- These settlements are an opportunity for any concerned consumers who have the Remington Model 700, Seven, Sportsman 78, 673, 710, 715, 770, 600, 660, XP-100, 721, 722 and 725 rifles with either a Walker trigger mechanism, or a trigger mechanism which utilizes a “trigger connector” to have Remington install a new trigger.
- The benefits under the settlement, including the trigger replacement program, will not be in place until after court approval of the settlement and full notice will go out at that time.
This culminates from extensive mediator-supervised negotiations between lawyers for those concerned about the triggers and Remington, who while denying there is any cause for concern, always desires to ensure that its customers are satisfied with Remington products. A joint press release will be issued to better explain details of the proposed settlement. [h/t BS. No really.]
Well, I suppose it does depend on what the meaning of “is” is.
Dangit! Beat me to it.
Great minds think alike.
OK, I’ll bite. I have fired no few Remington 700s over the years and NEVER had a bad trigger in any of them. What is the story here, really? Who is profiting from this,,,, sh*t? Who started this rumor? What gun company do they represent? Cuz, again, shot a lot of R 700s over the years, and never had a bad trigger.
Hundreds of injuries, about two dozen deaths and over $25 million in settlements and jury verdicts paid to victims says that the Remington triggers are bad. Not because of the triggers per se, but because of the “floating” connectors. This was a defect known as far back as 1946.
The designer of the connector (who just died at the age of 101) said that the design was safe but that the manufacturing was not. Whatever. The people it killed are just as dead.
Remington admitted as far back as 1979 that about 1% of Model 700s had this problem, but did not issue a recall because at the time, Rem had 2 million of them in circulation but only 20,000 were going to be found defective. ONLY 20,000.
Sometimes I regret my 870 purchase on principle.
I regret my 870 purchase on principle and also because it’s a piece of garbage. I loved my old one, but the quality of the new ones are horrible.
And yet, out of all the R 700s I have shot over the years not a single problem. I smell a rat.
Ok, lets think about this for a second. How many 700’s have you fired over the years? 5? 10? 25? 100? Even if you had fired 100 of them, you have sampled a statistically insignificant percent of the population. Clearly, some people have had problems (and by some I mean a crap load) with their rifles. Not all of them are bad, but enough are. I don’t own a 700, but the one my friend owned had one the bad triggers. I personally saw the issue myself. He traded it in.
Gee, out of all the lotto tickets I’ve bought over the year I’ve never won the jackpot! It must not exist!
Where were you educated that you don’t understand that your anecdotal experience does not necessarily translate to the universe at large?
I have a 700 BDL in .308. It is a beautiful gun, very accurate and is easy to carry. It spends its life in my gun safe because it fired with out my finger on the trigger one time. Let me say that again ONE TIME. We were standing with some friends after a hunt and I had turned away from my friends to unload my gun. I dumped the magazine out the bottom to empty it, and when I touched the bolt, the gun went off. Fortunately,I know the first two rules of gun safety, treat every gun as if it’s loaded, and don’t point it at anything you don’t want to put a hole in. This could have had horrible consequences, but it didn’t. However, I have not ever carried that gun since. I didn’t want to sell it for fear of something happening to the person who bought it. It LOOKS good though. My point is it only takes once…..that is too many….
it happened to me. Believe me, you will never forget it!
And really? A bad trigger “linkage” is going to make a rifle explode and kill someone? As long as you DON’T stick the muzzle to your eye to try and figure out why it did not go off a bad trigger “linkage” will not hurt you. I do. I smell a rat. Some one is profiting from this. I bet it is a lawyer.
I hope to never go shooting with someone who has your attitude. I have a Remington 700 LTR an upgraded to a Timney trigger. Problem solved. I couldn’t afford to be one of the dangerous few carrying around a defective rifle. Keep in mind that your experiences do not represent the sum total of everyone else. Neither do mine. However, I will learn from previous tragedies and take appropriate corrective action. I hope you do as well.
I don’t believe the rifle explodes. I think it accidentally discharges, as in a drop fire.
I’ll second the statistical insignificance of your sample of R700s and add that you could have handled a number of R700s with problems but never knew it since you didn’t hit the right set of conditions to make it go off unintentionally.
@John M, you are correct, The rifle does not explode. It just fires, not only when the trigger is pulled, but also when the safety is released, the bolt is manipulated in any way, or the gun is bumped or jarred.
Mine had to be repaired!…It’s just that simple!….It went off one time, when I pushed the safety into the fire position!…Your analogy of firing many 700s without a problem, was very well explained away, by a prior comment about the lottery!…Quit sniffin, at something that doesn’t stink!
My model 700 did go off when I released the safety in preparation to opening the bolt to take the round out of the chamber. I took it to a gunsmith who took the action out of the stock and found that both the small coil springs, one for the trigger weight pull tension, and one for the sear tension, had disintegrated from rust. He replaced them both and it has worked fine ever since. This was at least 30 years ago.
We got two 700s in the family and BOTH have fired when the safety was disengaged and NO finger was on the trigger.
That’s 100% failure and completely trumps someone who has yet to encounter a defective discharge.
So what made the guns go off. Was there some sort of impact or drop?
Just like I said. Move the safet from safe to fire and BAM! A friend also had his 700 go off once when he cycled he bolt. Again, no finger anywhere near he trigger.
Totall unacceptable and it’s time for big green to face the music.
The connector isn’t under the sear, the safety drops the sear back onto the trigger, which isn’t there because the connector is hung up and forward of where it should be.
Sear drops, cocking piece on the bolt snaps forward, and that’s it. The rifle fires if a round is in the chamber.
I’m only here to inform. You asked the question. I’ve answered all of them I think in one volume. Search for “Unsafe by Design”. You can buy it from Kindle or download it from free sources or get a hard copy from Amazon. It answers ALL the questions.
in my case, small coil tension springs in the trigger group, one for the trigger weight pull and one for the sear tension, both disintegrated from rust. Upon disengaging the safety, the rifle discharged.
Same exact thing happened to me…When we called about it, Remington said that all 700s manufactured before 1981, had the defective trigger/safety configuration…..They said that it was corrected from 1981 on…….Mine never did it again…My wife bought mine in 1976, and I still use it to hunt……I pushed the safety into the fire position and the rifle discharged, without my finger on the trigger!
me too. exactly the same thing happened with a model 700 at least that old. Rusty springs.
My wife bought me a Remington 700/270 in 1976….I pushed the safety forward to shoot at a deer, and the gun discharged without pulling the trigger….Everyone told me that it couldn’t happen….I knew that I didn’t have my finger on the trigger……I was forever careful after that, and didn’t know until 20 years ago or so, after watching an informational channel about accidental firearms deaths/accidents, that Remington had this problem….My son contacted Remington, and they told him that models made before 1981 had a design problem with trigger/safety, and if we took it to an authorized repair/dealer, who knew of the design flaw, that it would be repaired, but we would have to pay the labor, and they would supply the parts…He took it somewhere around the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area….It only ever happened to me one time in the almost 20 years of hunting prior to getting it fixed….
Back in the mid 80’s when I first heard rumors that Remington 700’s could go off without pulling the trigger, I had a knee jerk “bull$#it” response just like 2hotel9 because I’d hunted with my 700 for years with no problems whatsoever. Then a year or two later as I settled into my deer stand in the freezing pre dawn hours, I became a believer when my 700BDL 30-06 discharged as my right hand lowered the bolt handle with the gun sitting across my lap and nothing near the trigger, the only casualties were a hole in the plywood wall of the deer stand, and my hearing. I fixed the trigger problem on that 700BDL by trading it for a Ruger 77.
Years later I witnessed a near identical discharge of a 700 7mm mag as another hunter prepared to depart camp, his hand was on the bolt and the rifle discharged when he lowered the bolt, luckily the muzzle was pointed in skyward.
In the mid 90’s I went through a Remington armorer class that focused mainly on the 870, but briefly covered other Remington products including the 700 and allegations that the fire control system in the 700 was flawed, the Remington factory rep instructor gave us the official Remington response which was that allegations about the fire control system were not true and that the rifle could not be fired unless the trigger was pulled. The Remington instructor seemed like a nice guy so I caught him at the break and told him I had personally witnessed two discharges without the trigger being pulled, he smiled and said, “I know, but I have to follow the lesson plan they give me”.
So 2hotel9, my long winded point is, the trigger/connector issue is real, and Remington has known it is real for a long time.
I have two later model 700’s…I will send my VTR off for repair then sell, my SPS was not part of the recall, but will be sold. I will never own another Remington product. The quality of the later model Remingtons is terrible.
I guess Reminton does not realize the haste and cost involved with re-mounting and sighting a scope!! (No compensation for that). Goodbye Remington!
An Army Sergeant buddy of mine just back from Afghanistan bought a 770 from Dicks a couple months ago and the thing would fire when going off safe. The man knows his way around firearms and if he said the thing was unsafe I’ve no doubt that it was.
Remington quality/credibility is now rock bottom.
The whole freedom group needs a major marketing makeover.
This isn’t a marketing problem, it’s a leadership problem. Unfortunately the problems at Freedom Group go well above the CEO. FG needs an ownership change.
Someone I know has the notice from Remington to return his fairly new 700 to the factory for a new trigger group. Don’t know all the details but it sounds like a recall in all but name.
He also has an 870 pump gun that will lock up at least once per shooting session.
Between this and the troubles others I know have had/are having with their Remingtons, I’m done with the brand.
I wouldn’t take a chance on a Remington replacement trigger. First Remmy replaced the defective Walker fire control system with the equally defective X-Mark Pro fire control system, and now Remmy wants to take another shot at it? I’m thinking — no effing way.
At this point, just sell the Remington and buy something from a company that isn’t famous for making guns that go bang on their own. Like Ruger or Savage.
Never had a problem with my Model 700 trigger. But replaced it with a Timney anyway.
FWIW, I’ve had my 700 for 5 years, its been my go-to rifle for whitetail. Never had an issue. Sent it in last August, got it back in November. Still no troubles. Fires crisp and clean.
Rule 2 of firearm safety: It’s OK to let the muzzle cover something you’re not willing to destroy, UNLESS it’s a Remington? Then, and only then, do you need to be careful
People making a big deal out of this have completely lost perspective.
Two dozen deaths and some horrible injuries, including a man who lost both of his feet, and they’ve lost perspective? Holy sh!t, man, are you nuts?
Rule #2 also includes ensuring that your rifle points in a safe direction even if you drop it? And you are always sure of how any theoretical bullets will ricochet off the floor if accidentally discharged? Or where they will land if accidentally discharged into the air?
How safe would you feel about a gun that discharged a cartridge in the chamber every hour on the hour? Just point it in a safe direction and keep your hearing protection on?
Cooper’s rules are designed for guns that only go off when you pull the trigger.
I find it kind of amusing that you’re quoting safety rules for guns when we’re talking about an unsafe gun. If it needed to be said, having a gun that doesn’t go “BANG” unless the trigger is pulled would be rule 1. In fact, tell you what, just pencil that in as rule .5 to be sure… since I guess some people need to be told.
So, do you work from Remmington?
Do you own stock in Remmington?
Or do you just enjoy being Remmington’s cheerleader and do it free?
Would it be too much to ask for a list of rifles by model, caliber, and serial number range that might be affected by this kind of, maybe, might be something approaching a voluntary sort of recall. While its pick on Remington day, whatever happened to the “new and improved” R51 that was supposed to be back in production back in October? I never saw anything in the press about the R51 so I guess the idiots at Remy are still trying to get that disaster sorted out. Not that anything from Remington is high on my Christmas list anyway.
Not a recall? If it looks like a recall, and quacks like a duck…wait, is Gilbert Gottfried involved?
A recall is a recall.
It’s not a recall because Remmy isn’t calling the guns in (as it should). Instead, the owners can decide whether or not to send in their guns for a replacement trigger.
I’m no great fan of Remington managements decisions. On the other hand, I am mature enough to realize there are no perfect firearms. They are designed, fabricated, and used by humans, and humans are NOT infallible.
I have no reason to send my 700 in, it’s over 21 years old and was never identified as being a problem child for others, and hasn’t been for me.
If it’s not broke, I’m not going out of my way to fix it.
This has been an ongoing issue for years, and when I first read of the difficulties, there was a significant trend in the way I saw the incidences stack up. It was largely casual gun users who were handling the firearm in a non hunting situation, ie loading or unloading before or after the hunt. When they had a mental attitude that it wasn’t going to be used to kill something. I believe the real issue is they lost the focus it could still be fired if they weren’t paying attention.
I see it as the same problem Audi faced with unintentional acceleration – the focus group of uses were mid 50 year old males, and the incidents occurred in a manner that couldn’t eliminate they had simply stomped on the wrong pedal.
The 700 is a firearm whose action must be worked to unload it, and chambering every round into it and then ejecting it is part and parcel of the problem. It must be said that a magazine fed weapon is much less subject to that kind of negligent discharge. It is, to put it bluntly, much more stupid proof. Drop the mag, retract and lock back the bolt, clear, especially with the AR15, which is the watershed example of intrinsically safe modern self loaders.
The 700 isn’t, and neither are a lot of other manually loaded guns, which should give pause to those who deride them as “dangerous.” They are quite apparently much less so, it’s the 700 getting the press, not the AR15 makers. Quite the contrast to how some would like to paint them, but that goes to traditionalists supporting antigunner goals more than the 2 Amendment.
Elmer, I am talking about you. Learn how to handle your old antique designs which you revere so highly, or suffer the consequences. You can’t blame the makers for faulty handling of a firearm.
The unloading sequence you describe is necessary on only the 700 ADL, which has a blind magazine.
The blind magazine was yet another cost-cutting tactic by Remington. On other bolt-action rifles, you need not cycle the bolt to unload it, much less chambering a round to get it onto the extractor/ejector.
On the Mauser, Springfield 1903/A3, Winchester 70, Remington Model 30, Remington Model 30 Express, Remington Model 798, etc – you can drop the magazine floorplate. Out comes all the unchambered rounds. Oh, but the floorplate and floorplate latch – those cost money, so Remington wanted to get rid of them.
On a claw-extractor rifle, if you want to cycle the action, the claw extractor on these three actions will allow you to get a round out of the magazine and under the extractor well before the round is fully chambered – you can short-stroke the bolt to unload a claw-extractor bolt action, since the case rim will slide up the bolt face and under the claw on its way out of the magazine. Moreover, with the Model 70-style three position safety, the firing pin is rendered frozen in the bolt while you’re operating the bolt. You could chamber/unchamber rounds all day long on a Model 70 with a three-position safety and it won’t fire.
The safety on the Remington 700 simply cams the sear off the connector. It doesn’t do anything to immobilize the firing pin in the bolt.
The problem with chambering/unchambering rounds to unload them on the Rem700 is that their extractor is a stupid little piece of spring steel riveted into the bolt nose. You have to chamber a round (or come very, very close to closing the bolt completely) to get the extractor on an original 700 to ride over the case head rim. Need I say point out that the extractor on a Rem700 is yet another cost-cutting measure? It spawned a whole new industry for gunsmiths – installing Sako and AR-15 style extractors onto Remington 700 bolts for owners who got tired of their extractor clip breaking out of the bolt.
Listen the fuck up, all you who don’t believe that there is a defect or flaw..The Remington 700 can, and sometimes will discharge by merely moving the safety into the fire position…That my friends is a flaw in the mechanism…I understand that you should follow total all-encompassing gun safety, but this is a flaw in the design of a safety mechanism built into this gun…
It’s not a recall, it’s an update…
Which is just like a recall, except not, but really it is, or not.
Well, if this isn’t a major PITA, I don’t know what is. (Other than an AD, mind you.) I’ve got TWO 700s, and both of them were made in the 1990s before Big Green started to smell bad. Both of their triggers are factory-stock, and still have the factory epoxy on the adjustment screws.
I’ve shot many hundreds of rounds through each of them without issue, and I am far from excited at the prospect of shipping them for several months to a manufacturer I don’t entirely trust any longer, to install a ‘new’ trigger group that was designed (unless I’m mistaken) by one of the plaintiffs in this lawsuit.
I think I’ll stick with the triggers I know and trust, but I could be persuaded otherwise.
Just to be safe how much would it cost to drop a proven after market trigger into your rifles?
Tirod, My 700, has a floor plate that drops down, and lets 4 rounds drop into my hand. Then, with the rifle pointed in a safe direction, I run the bolt and remove the chambered round. ???
I’m tellin’ ya, the Remington 700 is the new Audi 5000!! (Those under 40 please use Google).
40% off code….cool.
I am going to assume this does not concern the 788 which mechanically is a somewhat different animal?
Correct, the 788 is a wholly different rifle. The trigger is different and much more rudimentary. You can get a Timney trigger for the 788, which can improve the rifle’s handling considerably.
So, if I have a 700 with a ribbed (ridged?) trigger, I should replace it?
I only have one 700, and it was a gift. Havent shot it since I first got it and has been gathering dust in the safe.
I know I sure as heck am not sending it in to big green. They have damaged my trust in them beyond repair.
I heard rumor that they will also be paying for customers who voluntarily replaced their triggers before the not-a-recall recall, can TTAG confirm?
I’d love for big green to pay for my Timney…
It’s too bad that this once great American company has been run into the ground. I know the trigger issue dates well before the Cerberus era, but it’s gotten exponentially worse. I sold my 2011 870 as a “gunsmith special” because they somehow found a way to make a pump gun unreliable. That and I could bathe it in CLP and it would still rust. My father has a couple of Remington’s that he bought in the 70’s (an 870 wingmaster and a 760 woodsmaster) and they are both buttery smooth actions and 100% reliable, they’re furniture and metal still looks beautiful 40 years later.
OK, I’ve read enough about “conspiracies” and “agendas” on this issue that I really have to explain with pictures what is going on.
Here’s a copy of the original patent filing for the Walker Fire Control System:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2514981.pdf
Go to the second page of this document. Look at Figure 5. I’m now going to explain to people exactly what is going on and why.
The trigger that you put your finger on is labeled as “40” in these drawings. The “connector” that I’ve been talking about (seemingly to no avail) is “39.”
The sear is 16. When the sear’s step 38 is resting on top of the connector’s edge 39, (look at the top & left edge of 39 on top of the trigger), the sear remains in the high position, the cocking piece of the bolt is held to the rear, meaning the firing pin is held back off the cartridge. When 39 is moved to the right (in Fig 5, or forward in the rifle), the connector (39) is pushed out from under the step on the sear (38) and the sear is pushed out of the way of the cocking piece and the firing pin slams forward on to the primer.
OK, let’s pick up the applicable language from the patent filing:
“Trigger spring 42 seats against an adjustable screw 43 and bears on the forward face of the connector resiliently urging the connector into engagement with the trigger and through the connector, resiliently urging the upper end of the trigger rearwardly.”
I didn’t write that folks, that’s how Remington wrote the patent app.
Right there is the nut of the problem. If the spring pressure from 42 is insufficient (eg, someone has adjusted trigger pull weight screw (43) to too light a weight), and there is any sort of gunk, crud, or other impediment to the connector (39) moving rearwards with the trigger (40) while the safety is on, your trigger(40) is in the reset position, but the connector is still forward (ie, off the front face of the trigger). Now there is nothing under the sear step 38!
At this point, if your safety is on and you release the safety (ie, you cam the safety cam 36 down and forward), the sear is pushed down as the cocking piece is pulled forward by the firing pin spring, and the rifle fires. It is as if the trigger were already pulled when you pushed the safety off. That’s the important point here: When the connector doesn’t move rearwards with the trigger (40) on trigger reset, you haven’t reset the trigger. The trigger is already effectively pulled.
OK, let’s take another case: You’re pushing the bolt forward on a live round – fast. The connector is stuck in the forward position. You slap the bolt closed and the cocking piece is only barely retarded by the sear; the rifle can fire.
There is no conspiracy, there is no agenda. The issue is that the trigger has a faulty design. That’s it. The connector should never have been allowed to float on the front of the trigger – it should always have been an integral part of the trigger.
What about the fire control system in higher end 700’s like the Sendero and Tactical rifles? Has Remington installed any non defective trigger groups in new rifles leaving the factory in say the last 5 years? 10 years?
DG, the barrel date codes on my 700 Sendero are “OQ”, which indicates the rifle was manufactured in July 1996, does it have a Walker Fire Control System?
At this point, Remington has so muddied the waters with various updates, recalls, non-recall upgrade campaigns, etc that I can’t (and wouldn’t) give an answer without having the rifle in front of me to examine.
Thank you very much. I see what the problem is now. Any other guns with this design and problems out on the market?
This specific problem, ie, a floating “connector?” Not of which I’m aware.
Clearly you work for “the man.”
Just trying to keep Remmington down.
I wish.
Alas, I have no paper from an Ivy League school, my pedigree isn’t good enough or left wing enough to admit me to The Man’s club and I’m too outspoken to put up with the idea of being bossed around by a hildabeast in a pantsuit to be allowed admission even if I had the sheepskin and the correct DNA.
So I guess neither one of us will be voting for Hillary.
Thank you!! I’ll send you a free book if you can figure out how to contact me.
Your explanation is EXACTLY right. My experience is that too many people who do not know what they are doing have tried to “adjust” their Remington triggers. In doing so they have created the perfect scenario for a ND. Namely, the “poundage” adjustment screw has been adjusted so light (< 2 lbs.), sometimes completely, that there is NO spring pressure to prevent a ND. Or, the "sear" adjustment screw has been adjusted out so far in an effort to eliminate "creep" that there is minimal sear enagement which also leads to a ND.
So here’s a question… If I already sent in a 700 to Rem earlier this summer for their recall trigger cleaning job, will I need to send it in again now for a trigger replacement?
My understanding is the trigger had extra bonding compound removed but the parts are the same old ones that now appear to recalled. That means it’s still defective, right?
I did the same as you, and have the same question.
Your question hasn’t been determined yet. Confusion could be the purpose.
It’s not a Government-mandated recall because the Consumer Product Safety Commission is forbidden by law to enforce safety standards for guns. The gun lobby got that enacted into law decades ago.
This Remington 700 problem has been widely known since at least 2010. See “http://www.cnbc.com/id/39743850”. It’s Remington’s third recall for “fires without trigger being pulled” problems. See
“http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center”. The 887 and 710 have also had defects resulting in accidental discharges, for different reasons than the 700.
This is a huge embarassment for Remington. Colt and Glock have had recalls, but nothing this bad.
I love apologists. ISIS hasn’t cut my head off so they must be great guys. We should get together for a beer or two. I haven’ t seen the problem, so it can’t exist. Uzi’s are fantastic weapons, let’s give one to a nine-year old girl.
Two dozen people have been killed by this manufacturing problem. More have been wounded. Do you need someone in your immediate family in a casket before you’ll admit the chance of a problem? I support the right to keep and bear, but the more I see junk like this, the more I think you should have to pass an IQ test before you can buy, or be issued, a weapon.
http://www.rifflawfirm.com/areas/pdf/remington4.pdf
An interesting source of the problems with the Walker Trigger Group Assembly.
It seems that the Connector is a big part of the problem.
I am sort of lost in figuring out what advantages the Connector part is supposed to have over a regular trigger unit as the above article seemed to state that realistically there are none.
Ah, but you see, you’re thinking like a gun owner and shooter, not a gun maker.
And more specifically, you’re not thinking like a gun maker that’s run by financial types, ie, MBA’s and finance majors.
I’ve ranted and fulminated here at TTAG about the cost (and corner) cutting by Remington in a quest for higher margins and lower COGS. This isn’t a new issue. This issue goes clear back to the 1950’s with Remington.
With the Remington 700, the cost-cutting campaigns for cheap heat-treating show up in at least two places in the action:
1. The three-piece bolt that is soldered together. Only the front end of the bolt, which includes the lugs, is hardened. The hardened frontpiece of the bolt is soldered onto the bolt body, and then the handle is soldered onto the body at the rear. This allows Remington to heat treat all the frontpieces at once in an oven, quenching and tempering them as necessary to gain the required strength in the bolt lugs and the lip of the bolt face (part of Remington’s “three rings of steel” ad campaign).
2. The connector in the trigger. Trigger mating surfaces have to be hardened pretty darn hard, lest they wear and (worse) feel “mushy” and kinda like you’re dragging a garden rake through cold peanut butter as you pull the trigger.
There are two ways trigger components are hardened:
– full through, then tempered back. This allows you plenty of depth on which you can polish out the trigger mating surfaces.
– case hardening (where there is only a hard outer shell on the steel in the trigger, sear and other mating surfaces). This is done on AR-15 factory triggers. You can’t polish an AR trigger hardly at all before you break through the case layer, and then you might as well throw away the trigger and buy a real trigger.
Most older-school guns would harden through and temper (or “draw back” in English gunsmithing terminology) back the hardness and there you’d have your trigger pieces. Then they have to have fixtures that allow them to grind and polish the angles and steps on the mating pieces to a nice finish, because even if the mating surfaces are hardened, if there is any machining marks or grind marks on the mating surfaces, you will feel these as you pull the trigger – when you feel grit and crunching on the trigger pull, that’s the machined marks or grinding marks that haven’t been polished out riding over each other.
Remington looked at the situation and said “Golly, if we could do with the one or two pieces in the trigger what we did with the frontpiece of the bolt… we could make nice triggers inexpensively!” So what they sought was a small piece of steel that could be made in a very easily dealt with shape that would be the piece hardened and polished. Lo! The connector was created.
The connector is hardened, but the main trigger bar isn’t. The connector is polished and ground nicely, all by itself, so that there’s no need to polish a hardened surface on the trigger bar. This is a brilliant solution to the problem of triggers costing money and skilled labor. It gets you a nice, crisp trigger pull at a bargain basement price.
Sadly, it also introduces a couple of very bad failure modes when the connector comes apart from the trigger bar.
I see. It seems that this failure is aggravated by the trigger mechanism being fouled and dirty, the trigger mechanism having any debris from the factory or elsewhere,nd the spring pressure, being light.
so if I have a 1965-ish Remington 700, should I look into replacing the trigger/having a gunsmith look at it?
Yes.
Awesome, thanks Dyspeptic Gunsmith
Thanks Brianfor the good hint, even non-developers such as me should be able to pull this specific away: )This is absolutely essential the multi-international website in relation to SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMISATION.
Wife bought me a new 700 SPS, with the Walker trigger assy, in 300 win. mag. It has fire once while closing the bolt, I have cycled the rifle 1000s of times and have yet to get it to dry fire. Needless to say, I don’t trust the rifle at all.
Fit and finish on this rifle is horrible also, unless its well oiled down, it likes to rust. I personally don’t recommend a new 700 to anyone. If you want a 700, picked up a used older one.
“Don’t call it a recall” ????
That’s exactly what Remington is calling it on their own website..
PRODUCT SAFETY WARNING AND RECALL NOTICE
REMINGTON MODEL 700™ AND MODEL SEVEN™ RIFLES
That is a different ‘re-call’ all together. If they’re trying to confuse they’re doing great at it.
There’s nothing on the Remington Recall page that indicates that triggers are going to be replaced . They’re going to be “specially cleaned” according to the web page .
http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/safety-warning-recall-notice-Remington-model700-modelseven.aspx
My guess is that they glue/weld/etc the connector to the trigger face.
I’ve been using good (JBWeld) epoxy to attach connectors since 1969, but the angle HAS to be removed without removing any of the engagement (top) surface of the connector. That maintains the proper geometry for support but takes the camming action out of the connector and the epoxy life is so-far unlimited. A properly ‘repaired’ Walker is as good a trigger as a Timney, but they MUST be done correctly or be extremely dangerous. It’s not a homesmith job.
Pardon me, but it seems that treefroggy is looking at the page for the newer XMP trigger, i.e., the defective trigger that replaced the defective Walker trigger in 2006. So far (12/22/14), I haven’t found anything on Remington’s web site about the older Walker trigger.
Mike J– Check CNBC for a report and interview with Rich Barber on Dec. 5th. The whole thing is very confusing….by design.
Jack, Remington’s recall notice says that it changed its XMP “trigger assembly process to eliminate this problem” starting April 9, 2014. What did Remington? I want to feel better about the M700 I ordered 3 weeks ago.
Hi there, constantly i used to check blog posts here
in the early hours in the morning, as i like to learn more and more.
I wish the defect was lottery I had three guns with defect. CHECK ALL YOUR GUN THE
Many years ago I had it happen on a 721. These triggers get gunked up with residue from WD40. I looks like dried varnish in and on the trigger assembly and that is what causes the boom.
My Dad’s favorite gun….a Remmington 700 BDL (1963-64) went off as I prepared to unload. I flipped off the safety, boom. I was about 12-13 at the time. I knew I didn’t touch the trigger (I was taught very well about gun safety), but no one wanted to believe me. I still have that gun and will till I die. I know it needs to be fixed but I won’t be sending it to Remmington.
It is a pity that they knew about this defect since the 1946 but haven’t modified triggers… It is better to check your Remington 700 rifle if you own own.
I have a (1980’s? not sure) bolt action, 3 round Magazine, Remington Model 788, 30-30 caliber, serial 033889. Is this weapon a part of the serious trigger safety problem I see aired on TV on 60 Minutes 2-19-2017? I have hunted with this weapon very little over the years 1980-2015, but my 34 year old son has gone hunting with the weapon and has it stored at his home in a locked gun cabinet. I worry now after seeing the 60 Minutes program identifying trigger defects that have lead to deaths involving 700 series Remington weapons.
Should I get a gun smith to inspect the weapon? — Anyone please advise.
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