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This is what gun control looks like in practice. When the New York Police Department tried to reduce violent crime by stopping pedestrians, questioning them, and patting them down for weapons, the overwhelming majority of the people subjected to such treatment were black or Hispanic. And when they were frisked, which happened about half the time, police almost never found guns and rarely discovered weapons of any kind.

That track record contradicted the pretense that the pat-downs were based on the “reasonable suspicion” that the Supreme Court says the Fourth Amendment requires. But according to Michael Bloomberg, a leading gun control advocate who was New York’s mayor when these stops skyrocketed, the whole point was not to find guns but to deter young men from carrying them to begin with.

Given these realities, it is more than a little puzzling that people who are concerned about racial disparities, potentially deadly police encounters, and the life obstacles created by felony records would advocate new gun controls and stronger enforcement of existing restrictions. If you worry about those problems, why support policies that are bound to make them worse?

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64 COMMENTS

    • …you’ll find there are a lot of 🥾 👅 on this site who pretend to hate big government yet are cool with things like stop and frisk and no knock warrants.

        • That’s all the ‘anonymous’ ones do, pitch their little fits like a petulant two-year-old that doesn’t get its way and make horse’s asses of themselves.

          If it wasn’t so pathetically sad, it would be hilarious.

          Fuck that, it *is* hilarious! 🙂

        • FYI: Geoff/Jacob/Sam I Am is the numero uno 🥾👅 on this site. He loves the taste of the boot leather.

        • You know how some dogs (usually a poorly socialized small breed) develop hysterical aggression toward all other canines, and the merest hint that another dog exists somewhere will send them into a paroxysm of spittle-flinging, barking-mad rage, to the point where the only remedy is to isolate them in a dark, soundless chamber or put them down?

          The internet does that to certain people.

      • The only support on this site for no knock warrants and Broad stop and frisk is from leftists and “progressive pro gun control trolls.
        We have been over this and when you do a site google search it shows progressives doing this.

    • Abe Lincoln invented the Patriot Act (arresting Maryland democrat senators w/o charging them) but it was GW Bush that put it into legislation. Not one moooooslime voted for it. Those were red blooded, Amerikan communist & power hungry employees of We the People. Lincoln freed no one, rather enslaved all to the Den of Corruption in Washington

      • “Lincoln freed no one”
        And its Libertarians who make excuses for those that wanted to keep a large part of the population in slavery.
        They say Lincoln didn’t fight the war to end slavery. Ok you believe that if you want to. But the South did fight the war to keep slavery alive and well. Just read the words of the Confederate States of America Vice president. Read the “corner stone” speech. look it up.

  1. That’s a really interesting article.
    It would take some time to fact check some of the more obscure references, but it seems well written.

    • I find it a most extreme compliment to the NYPD that it worked. It was obviously unconstitutional from the start, but I also believed it would fail. It did not. So many ways it could go wrong, yet crime came down massively.

        • Some people just need a really good ass kicking. It costs the tax payer a lot less. And the criminal doesn’t get an arrest record or a prison record. But they do get a life lesson. One the says if you don’t stop stealing and assaulting people. They next time you might get raped in prison. When the justice system sticks you in that prison cell.

  2. It’s more about social class than race, if you have the resources no matter what law or social norm is passed/observed there are ways around it. We unfortunately have the best legal system that money can buy, and if you have the appropriate resources (and use them in an effective manner) almost nothing is really out of reach.

    In regards to stop and frisk, the same man who defended it by saying things like just photo copy the perp description and post it to every police station is still a gun liberal darling largely due to the amount of money he throws around. It appears he can’t buy a political office but he seems to have no problem buying politicians (the same ones who would crucify him if he didn’t throw an insane amount of money at them)

    • remember when they had to find you guilty? Instead of you having to prove you were innocent? Amerika needs to restore the republic and obey those 10 rights that state what the gov’t. CANNOT do to the citizen. Anyone want to secede from the abuse yet? How much worse does it need to get ? The chaos is here….again. same abolitionist, same motive. Cause havoc to change laws you disagree with. Who is the slave now, taxpayer?

    • Yup. For CCW lic in my county it’s minimum $250 for mandatory CCW class and $200 for a license for the first 2 years. For first time gun owners add in the gun, holster and ammo, that’s at least $1,000 to get started.

  3. “Hits Minorities Hardest?’ Well Gun Control is an agenda rooted in racism and genocide. Of course when sheltered politically inept history illiterate busy bodies hear “Gun Control” they get all giddy and can’t wait to vote democRat. What those giddy useful idiots don’t realize is when they vote for Gun Control they are voting for a racist and nazi based agenda. So to useful idiots across America…Either walk away from the Gun Control Filth or bend over and say Sieg Heil to z fuhrer mini mike bloomberg.

    TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

        • OK, everyone – Picture this scene –

          It’s a little over one hour earlier from now (a little after noon, local time), and I’m sitting in a pew after the church service and reading TTAG, and I read this :

          “‘Julio’ is one of several alter egos of Geoff ‘The Goof’ PR…”

          I busted out laughing. A belly-roller laugh. The other parishioners look at me like I’m possessed or something. Finally, one of them asked me what’s so funny. That got me going all over again. I finally say “Something I read on the internet”. She wanted further details. I just didn’t have the heart to tell her it was something a butt-fucking-STUPID troll said about me.

          Widdle troll, please, just do us all a favor and off yourself, OK? Your paranoia is now officially in the “Needs mental health medication NOW” territory.

          Julio, pay no mind to my widdle troll. He’s a seriously angry fuckwit that loves abuse. He offers nothing to the TTAG community and just seethes in impotent rage because we told him repeatedly his rants on childhood vaccines weren’t welcome here any more… 🙂

        • Geoff the Goof and ‘Christian’ doesn’t see the irony in telling someone to ‘off themselves’. And on a pro gun website no less. You’re the one who isn’t welcome here, Mr. Engineer. Even the people in church just humor you because they know you’re a red flag risk.

        • Gracias, Jefe. We’re good…don’t even worry about it. I didn’t take offense since I actually respect your opinions. I just put forth very little effort to feed the troll. I used to be stationed down in your neck of the woods, but moved last year—thankfully. I miss some of the excitement of the big city…but not the heat and humidity. Los zancudos apparently loved Mexican food since they pestered my wife and I incessantly.

        • “doesn’t see the irony in telling someone to ‘off themselves’. And on a pro gun website no less.”

          In this case, it qualifies as the gene pool being cleaned of your psychotic DNA.

          A bona-fide community service, than you very much. 😉

          “You’re the one who isn’t welcome here, Mr. Engineer.”

          That’s a good one!

          Free clue – Anonymous or brand new commenters with no post history don’t get to vote on that. Meanwhile, plenty of folks have kicked you in the teeth for your bullshit.

          Do us all a major solid and take a nice warm bath with a razor blade and slit your wrists, OK?

          Remember, very important – Make the cuts long ways, not across… 😉

    • Plenty stupid honkies become black by voting for the likes of Biden. In fact, if he wins (VERY unlikely!) we can drop all Affirmative Action and civil rights actions forever, since there is no further racism in ‘Murica, we all be black!

    • I know I can’t apologize for the color GOD made me, or the thought of making me feel guilty. Even being a millionaire in the NFL, blacks have a victim, jungle mentality. so sad. Amerika has spent $22 trillion in the last 55 years, not one savage has been made equal.

  4. Gun control started as edged weapons control 3500 years ago to keep Israelites from getting quality swords by the Hittites. Gun control arrived in Colonial America in the early 1700’s to prevent Native Americans from getting guns from French fur traders.

    It has never been about guns, always about control.

    • You cannot have Gun Control if firearms were not in existence. Perhaps the control aspect of edged weapons was eventually applied to firearms. Today most everyone in America owns a butcher knife. There are no Edged Weapon Control hoops to purchase and own knives, swords, etc. Anyone can walk in a Harbor Freight and walk out with a machete for five bucks. But all of that is neither here or there because the focus should be on Gun Control In America’s past, present and future.
      The references used for Gun Control by elite Gun Control Zealots in America is based on Racism and Genocide from Slavery to Jim Crow to Genocide in Nazi Germany, etc. The source for Gun Control in America can be narrowed down to where I can turn the table and ask any Gun Control Zealot in America to justify their racist and nazi based agenda. That’s the opposite of the floor sweepers sitting around waiting for Gun Control Zealots to set the pace and make another mess so they can run to clean it up.

      TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

      • I believe there is one state where the brick and mortar store from which you buy a kitchen knife must ship it to your home even though you bought it from them in person. The reason is that taking it with you, in its factory packaging and inside the store’s shopping bag, constitutes carrying a concealed weapon illegally.

        • George. In most of CA, I think L. a. may be the exception, I can walk around with a great big knife or even sword so long as it is not concealed.

          Might get some weird looks, but its legal.

        • Texas has no knife laws, for about 2 years now, sword canes are legal, or wearing a sword on your hip. I am considering a cane. Couple hundred bucks from Cold Steel. And I could actually use a cane.

        • jdub, L.a., love it. first time i’ve hit the shift key on this site.
          however inadvertant that was, it automatically validated my holiday weekend “it’s gotta be five somewhere” default.
          i’m talkin’ gus n’ bru.

        • @JWM
          CA knife laws, with exception of LA, are not too bad. Once in a blue moon I see someone open carrying a bushcraft knife or other non-tactical looking fixed blade.

        • fyi to Larry in Tx
          There are many videos on cane defense. Many different products as well. A cane is a “medical device” never call it a weapon.

          Cane Masters – Circle of Masters 10-16-2015 video 39 min long

  5. Golly I stated HERE quite awhile back that “stop & frisk” was racist BS. And got hammered. You reap what you sow…if white boyz were the victim’s it wouldn’t have happened. It’s a wonder more heavily armed cop’s aren’t shot!

    • raycis and effective. frisk everybody removes the german efficiency aspect. become familiar with the local dicks and expect scrutiny.
      howzabout strict penalties for violent offence that stick?

  6. the very first thing a dictator will do is confiscate any way of the masses have to protect themselves with..why do you marxist puppets think there are no CONVOYS heading to communist countries ??????????????????? they all have gun control..

  7. The single mothers just want the government to be their kids father. Problem is when government steps in to act “fatherly” the harpees scream and shriek offering a clue as to why the actual father didn’t stick around.

  8. First, “Racial Justice” like mostly all ‘left speak’ means exactly the opposite. Rather than equal justice under the law, it simply means racially favoring so called ‘minorities’ (but only those who subscribe to Marxism), over anyone of mostly European descent, and is especially contemptuous of those who actually pander to the rabidly racist Bolshevik left’s twisted belief system.

    I believe ‘stop and frisk’ is fundamentally unconstitutional. Period. I also understand why it works in some places where 90+% of crime is committed by young black men, and young men from the left’s veritable fruit basket of ‘people of color’.

    From a logical ‘probable cause’ perspective, the reason the policy works is because it actually functions on reasonable belief based on things like demographic probabilities, and does the person being frisked comport themselves, and dress in a manner consistent with gang culture, habitual criminality, and criminal activity.

    Taken as a whole, the items above are race-independent, and the world over can be universally applied to reasonably identify those who are likely to be criminally inclined, whether or not they are currently actively engaged criminal activity.

    The situation Dan discusses presumes unconstitutional ‘gun control’ measures are already in place at the time ‘stop and frisk’ occurs. In that scenario the law abiding citizen is already living under illegal, and unconstitutional tyranny. I guarantee you, if citizens in those areas were lawfully, and constitutionally armed, there would be far fewer gang members, a great deal more mutual respect, and no need or purpose for ‘stop and frisk’

  9. …it is more than a little puzzling that people who are concerned about racial disparities, potentially deadly police encounters, and the life obstacles created by felony records would advocate new gun controls and stronger enforcement of existing restrictions.

    The main point of gun control today is to disarm the Kulaks. Incidental harm to other groups doesn’t bother people like Bloomberg and Soros as long as they can accomplish this goal.

  10. What many ignorantly call profiling is more expertly called narrowing areas of probability, for predictive outcomes. When used with questioning it is very accurate in its results. A major aspect is how it is articulated and laid out as a set of protocols in a lawful program.

  11. I hope you know that lying is a sin. And racist is not, neither is decriminalization for there isn’t no law that states you are required to like are dislike everyone, it has nothing to do with a person’s color, it’s about their actions and backgrounds, and if they have any business in that area, if not the officer’s have every right to protect themselves, by checking the person or person’s if they are acting violet or not responding to the officer’s commands.

  12. I’ve never been stopped by the police. Because of my looks. I guess I don’t look like a drug dealer. But I have been stopped for speeding.

    • btw
      The people who call the cops racist and want “stop and frisk” to end. Are also the same ones who don’t support the 2A for honest black people. Nor do they support allowing people to carry a knife. Concealed or not. These ACLU types are just as racist as Bloomberg.
      They want to “take care of” the blacks.

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