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Quote of the Day: Who Needs A 15-Round Ammunition Magazine

Dan Zimmerman - comments No comments

(courtesy heedinggodscall.org)

“Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster.” – Bryan Miller, Executive Director of Heeding God’s Call [via washingtontimes.com]

0 thoughts on “Quote of the Day: Who Needs A 15-Round Ammunition Magazine”

  1. Is he aware that religion is responsible for more mass murder than any other force/concept/theory in the history of humanity?

    Maybe we should rethink our ban brains…

    Reply
    • I don’t disagree with your thought, I may have even used those words before. But I would offer up that “religion” in and of itself isn’t inherently bad, but that whacked out nutcases (and there are some in EVERY religion) killing in the NAME OF religion is what you’re getting at…

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      • Religion isn’t responsible for anything. People are responsible

        Does that mean that likewise, communism and Nazism isn’t responsible for anything?

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        • “Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism’s in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, ‘I don’t believe in Beatles, I just believe in me.’ Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I’d still have to bum rides off people.”

          Ferris Bueller

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      • “Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”

        —Robert A. Heinlein

        And since I just read “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” yesterday, here’s another one from that book:

        “I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”

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    • Stirring up religious bickering among the gun community its the worst idea.

      It doesn’t matter if someone is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, or anything else. We’re all here because we need to protect our natural right to self defense.

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    • You could say that religion has killed the most people. But this leaves out the fact that there has been a close relationship between government and religion throughout history.

      Fortunately, people got ‘smarter’ in the last few centuries.

      Once government was finally unburden from the ignorant strictures of religion it was free to give us: France’s Terror
      Stalin’s purges, gulags and Holodomor
      China’s Great Leap Forward & Cultural Revolution
      Pol Pot’s killing fields

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      • Communism is a secular religion, and it is more frightening and bloody because its gods are bloodthirsty psychopathic humans and not imaginary.

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      • Nobody really got any smarter. If anything, they got dumber for falling for the same old discredited ideas, newly repackaged.

        That idea being that there exist certain categories of people who have the right to compel others, to force them to their will, to rule them, without the consent of the governed.

        Whether that justification came from the “divine right of kings”, royal lineage, the caste system, apartheid, dictatorship of the proletariat, so-called liberation theology, and other vicious fictions, doesn’t really matter. They’re all frauds and people keep falling for them.

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    • Not quite, I wouldn’t blame the religion. People rallied behind men and those men used religious affiliation as a justification, a tie-in. What should bother these people is that they are doing the exact same thing as those that committed atrocities across history.

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    • It would be instructive to tally up the deaths at the hands of atheists and their agents, and compare the total number to that of the victims of all the other religions, and each religion specifically. Comparison with wartime casualties would be good.
      Wikipedia (I know, but I’m on my lunch break, no time for proper research) starts us off with an estimated 20-70 million deaths at the hands of the big Communist regimes. I’m not sure where to get figures for the rest.

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  2. “Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster.” Or defending themselves from a home invasion, or facing any of the threats faced by our civilian police force on a daily basis.

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  3. The News Journal isn’t exactly known for intelligence. It’s no surprise that they put on their paranoid glasses regarding firearms at a town hall meeting.

    And I am a bit puzzled as to why one would go to the town council to voice a complaint about a neighbor vs. going to the police. Wouldn’t their response be “file a police report” or something?

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  4. “Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster.”

    So which of these things are the feds?

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  5. When they say “Trust in God”, do they still lock their doors at night? Taking pains to protect against danger is not a lack of faith, it’s simply exercising prudence.

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  6. I just sent the following to their national office (from their webpage)

    Only domestic terrorists or gangsters should need more than 10 prayers. All prayer books with more than 10 prayers should be confiscated.

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      • +1000

        You, sir, have hit upon a truly profound idea the anti’s simply do not understand.

        I am armed precisely because avoidance, deescalation and deterrence fails sometimes. Even with a commitment to avoidance, sometimes the other guy(s) just don’t play along.

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  7. I tend to emphasize finger-off-the-trigger for new shooters. Here’s why:

    Most of the time that I’m teaching newbies how to shoot we go to an outdoor range. I like the range because it’s rigidly structured and there are other people shooting, and I find these things help people get over their nervousness.

    A side effect of going to the range is that all the guesswork is taken out of the “know your target” rule. Muzzle discipline is also not much of a problem; I take care of setting up my firearms on the bench, then walk the new shooter how the safeties work and how to load and drop a magazine and how to chamber a round, all the while demonstrating how to do so with the muzzle down range. I’ll then have them try it out (with cleared gun and empty magazine). I don’t see many problems with muzzle discipline.

    The one thing everyone screws up is putting their finger on the trigger or into the trigger guard before they’re on target. Poor trigger discipline is so pervasive in popular culture that it tends to be a pre-ingrained bad habit most people seem to have. As such, I tend to call constant attention to that rule, repeat it multiple times, and I still have to correct almost everyone once or twice. I also end the range trip by telling the new shooters to watch for bad trigger discipline when they watch TV and movies–it makes for a fun “secret club” kind of activity to keep the range day memories alive. 🙂

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  8. I’m sorry, but it is impossible for me to take this post seriously when random words are all caps. It (ironically) sounds like a comment posted on a blog.

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  9. That editorial reads like something a child in 6th grade would write.

    And maybe this is a good sign for us. People with the slightest bit of reasoning skills are seeing the light all over the nation. Look at the recent community meeting in Chicago where the local folks started bashing all of the entrenched paradigms. I have to wonder if the only people left advocating for civilian disarmament are people of low intelligence with no ability to reason.

    Well, having said that, I am sure there are lots of others who advocate for civilian disarmament because it is profitable for them. But take away the profit motive, and I suspect most all of the “grass roots” support for civilian disarmament are people who write 6th grade level editorials for their local newspaper.

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  10. “Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster 15 rounds is a standard capacity for their firearm; in that case they should own several for purposes of redundancy and to reduce time spent reloading while target shooting.”

    There, fixed it for them.

    Reply
  11. This is a nice, fair article covering the Swiss K31 Schmidt-Rubin Rifle. Of all of my milsurps, my Swiss rifles make my day on the range a satisfying outing. All four of my Swiss rifles shoot M.O.A. using GP-11 ammo.

    Three of these rifles, I bought from Simpson’s. I live close buy, and they allow me to peruse their racks of rifles for that perfect buy. They also have an excellent website that lets you view the rifles up close. They even list bore sizes.

    I went to the Aledo gunshow looking for a Garand or M1A last fall, but walked away empty handed. Not to be disheartened in my quest for a new to me firearm, I traveled over to Simpson’s. I ended up in their backroom dusting off their racks of 96/11’s. I narrowed my focus down to two, then made purchase on one with the flip of a coin.

    Yesterday, both windy and cold, I took my newest 113 year old 96/11 to the range to see how it’d do with some GP-11 I had just purchased along with a couple of reloads. It shot 12-14” high at 200m and right on the nut at 300m. I stood up three bowling pins laying at the 300m target stands. With this sixty year old steering with irons, it took me four rounds to knock them over. What a sweetheart.

    Reply
    • Ah yes, the good ol’ Bill of Needs…

      Air, food, water, clothes, and shelter (however, one could make a strong argument that no one really “needs” clothes or shelter.)

      Technically, those thing are all anyone really “needs.”

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  12. I went to a Christian elementary school (which was part of a church) in a liberal California city. There was a murder/suicide right at the front door and we all heard it. Not one teacher, staff member or pastor said a word about guns.

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  13. My mother was one of those hardcore, bible thumpers that never really liked guns, though she never was opposed to anyone, including my dad and myself, having them.

    Her stance was “The Lord will take care of me, if he be with me, who can be against me?”

    Over the years I was finally able to pound into her head that just because you carry a gun doesn’t mean you don’t trust in God, anymore than wearing a seatbelt, or having health insurance, or putting on a helmet when you ride a motorcycle.

    There are plenty of dead soldiers who believed God was on their side, but I, personally, do not believe God picks sides the way we like to think he does…

    Anyways, my mother still thumps and gets mad at me for cursing, but she also has a license and carries daily now.

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  14. Christians would do better by identifying and ministering to the next would-be terrorist/gangster before they become one. I daresay Jesus would have found a discussion about guns and magazines to be missing the point. Whenever he was asked about laws, regulations, taxes, or even oppression by violent Romans with their superior weaponry, he changed the discussion to be about what was in the heart. No violence can be “stopped” without first addressing what is in the heart of man. To quote:

    “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is even angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.” Matt 5:21.

    And from James:

    “What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? You want something but don’t get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God.”

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  15. Is it just me, or does the overall tone of their arguments get meaner and dumber the lower the round count?
    Eventually it’s going to be: “You have bullet? You eat babies.”

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  16. RIP Dick Cabela…I enjoy your store and the competitive pricing of some of your sales. Not to mention it’s fun to spend an hour or two just wondering around your store with my son 🙂

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  17. Well the cops need them. And so I need them. And for the same reasons.

    In a fullsize pistol anything with only a 15 rd mag better be .4/10mm/.45. I expect more in a 9mm 🙂

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  18. Who needs “X” rounds?

    Well, X is arbitrary. 15? 10? 5? 1?

    This kind of stuff is straight out the play book, whether the topic is money, ammunition, the size of your house, etc. Who needs $1,000,000? Who needs 6 rounds in a revolver? Who needs a truck or SUV? Who needs 1000 sq ft?

    The point is that there is a self-appointed aristocracy that seeks to be the ones imposing the limit. The limit is arbitrary.

    So long as I can choose such things as mag capacity, house sq footage, motor vehicle size, I am not fully subjugated.

    The argument is not whether or not 15 rounds is enough. The argument is “Why do you want to be the ones setting the limit?”

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  19. I’m sorry, I’m not going to let someone whose god allegedly told them to turn the other cheek and willingly let himself be crucified by the Romans determine how many rounds I need.

    Christianity is only workable in the modern age because most Christians don’t literally follow all the Bible’s teachings.

    And thank god for that.

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  20. So even if I wanted to (and I don’t) my 1945 Steinway cannot be sold across state lines because it has ivory keys? What exactly does that do to save elephants?

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  21. You simply have to feel for the poor hunter who’s been bringing back four or five ellies a year, at an all in cost of ca. $200,000. What’s a guy to do? Have his wife shoot two? I suppose.

    And suddenly (if the regs enter force) I have an ivory gambling dice set given to me in 1966 1913 by a dear aunt which can’t be sold by the family if I get trampled by an elephant? Well now the set’s definitely an heirloom.

    I recently came to realize that Lady Liberty, down on her luck, has become a full-time nanny.

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  22. Resale of Elephant Ivory: We will finalize a proposed rule that will reaffirm and clarify that sales across state lines are prohibited, except for bona fide antiques, and will prohibit sales within a state unless the seller can demonstrate an item was lawfully imported prior to 1990 for African elephants and 1975 for Asian elephants, or under an exemption document.

    How do they have the power to do this or enforce it?

    Aside from a platoon of unaccountable badge-wearing gangsters at their disposal, I mean.

    Reply
    • They do have the authority to regulate (I’m not convinced “regulate” means “prohibit”) interstate commerce. So, technically, they have the power to do this.

      As far as enforcing it? I have a better chance of Dave Dombrowski signing a decent bullpen. When it comes to outright prohibitions like this, the only way it can really be enforced is to stop every single vehicle crossing state lines. They might be smuggling ivory.

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      • It can be enforced for Internet sales, I imagine. In my field of interest what this will do is lock all of the top end vintage, pre (roughly) 1920 guitars, banjos, mandolins, ukuleles, and the like in place. The market for this sort of quality (and price!) is too small and dispersed for in-state sales to support. The final outcome for a lot of antiques is going to depend on what constitutes “proof of age”. If the Trade in Endangered Species law is any guide, enforcement will be selective, arbitrary, and capricious. Stories of politically undesirable rock bands having all of their instruments confiscated at national borders are common.

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  23. I believe in the whole Constitution, not just the parts I like. Whether it makes any sense or not in this case the Federal government was given the sole power to regulate interstate commerce. This power can be used wisely or foolishly but it is a legitimate exercise of federal authority.

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  24. I don’t know the source for that video, but damned if I can’t help but instantly dislike the “hunter.” I just don’t get the thrill. Pay a PH to guide you to the spot, pay him to tell you how to make the shot and set up the sticks, make the shot (with him and a couple others backing you up), and then hide while the rest of the elephants run away. Your skill isn’t being tested. You aren’t being tested physically. You aren’t going to eat it. You aren’t going to take anything home but a video and a picture. I’m baffled.

    And then the comments about seeing the elephant? No, buddy, you haven’t seen the elephant. If you’d seen the elephant it’s very unlikely you’d find anything exciting about the experience you just paid for.

    Reply
    • I don’t know the source for that video, but damned if I can’t help but instantly dislike the “hunter.”

      Lots of people do things that make me dislike them, but that does not in and of itself mean that such activities should be restricted in any way. If someone wants to spend tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege of killing of elephant….meh, it’s their money.

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  25. Hmm wonder if he would change his mind if he were here where I live in the country and, as I was 3 wks ago, standing on my front porch at 2 in the morning w/my 30rd mag SKS shooting at starving coyotes trying to get in my dog pen!!! 15? Hell No 30rounder and a spare or two!!

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  26. The misguided folks at Heeding God’s Call seem to know even less about guns than they do about God. However, I’d like them to know that I’ve heeded God’s call twice already in 2014: picked up a mint S&W model 60 in January and a beautiful Weatherby Orion 28 gauge in February. I consider both to be gifts from God, who knows our every need and richly shares from His abundance before we even ask.

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  27. A presidential interagency task force creating another federal interagency task force while getting intelligence briefings from a wildlife council whilst under an executive order…?….the stuff of liberal wet dreams. Carlin had a famous gesture for this whole cluster F.

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  28. “He who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one”‘ Luke 22:36. Pretty straightforward for all the so-called anti gun Christians. I am commanded to be protect my family…period. 15rounds or 500.

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    • Amen. The organization in question may be “heeding God’s call,” but their god is the endlessly malleable concept of “social justice” which can be (and has been) used to justify all sorts of evil actions.

      Proposed counter-slogan: “No one needs a Subaru with a ‘Coexist’ bumper sticker.”

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  29. The Glock simply cannot go off without a trigger pull
    It’s a single action gun with the trigger pull of a double action
    You are tensioning the striker when you pull the trigger, therefore it literally, in no situation could go off without a trigger pull.

    That being said, I don’t like Glocks either.
    Just don’t care for a polymer frame, no safety, blocky look.
    Just my personal preference.

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  30. I don’t know what it is about priests, ministers and the like being hard core lefties.

    Since I’ve never subscribed to a religion, this is simply speculation…but my suspicion is that the lens through which such people see the world is primarily that of leftist politics, not religion; thus they simply use religion to justify their political opinions.

    The same would certainly apply to those on the right, as well. In the end it’s all about the desire to control others.

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  31. His fear and gulping : Who’s problem?

    If he can’t tell the difference between a criminal about to shoot the place up and his own neighbor attending a city meeting to work out their problems that is not anyone’s issue but his.

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  32. Seems like a reasonable practice to me if it can save lives, but then again I shoot animals and eat them, so I doubt PETA would care to hear my opinion on it.

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  33. It IS somewhat distasteful. If the animals were euthanized immediately after being shot, and the meat put to good use, I could see it. The implication, though, is that they are learning to treat the injuries to the pigs, and having suffered through recovery from serious injuries myself, I would hate to see any animal put through that ordeal. If the training is limited to immediate battlefield first aid, the animals are anesthetized before shooting, and they are euthanized immediately after the first aid, I would not object quite as much, but it still bothers me.

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    • Done pig labs multiple times, it is the best medical training you can do. The pigs are sedated, vets constantly walk around checking them, and if they start reacting in any way we let the vet know and them come give them a bump of anesthesia. As soon as we are done, they are given a shot which stops their heart. The pigs meat is not consumable due to the way they are euthanized. This is still the best way to train somebody on a injury, and pigs are incredibly similar to humans to begin with. The simulators are retarded and pretty much useless. You are not going to be able to replicate flesh without flesh. Yeah it is gruesome, but so are battlefield injuries.

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      • Of course you can’t eat the meat with all the meds and things in it.

        Regarding pigs similarity to people: That and religion is the reason why I don’t eat pork

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  34. PETA kill tens of thousands of animals annually so they won’t be subjected to the same torture my pets are (sometimes we don’t even let them sleep in our bed!).

    But I digress…..point is that PETA knows about killing animals.

    The reality is that to learn to do surgery you have to operate on living tissue. Simulators are OK, but not the same. So you can learn on pigs and dogs or you can learn on people. Take your pick.

    Whenever I see people who are against animal testing, I wonder what they expect drug makers to use to test their drugs. Computer models can’t begin to “get” all the variables in physiologic systems. So if you can’t test on animals, I guess the best solution is to make an educated prediction on the drug and start “testing” on people….

    Of course, these people also believe in “Gun Free Zones” and “smart” guns.

    And probably the tooth fairy…..

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  35. The real key is whether the animals are adequately anesthetized BEFORE being wounded. NO aspect of medical or trauma training requires that the animal be aware of the injury since it does not affect the management in any positive way. At all. There are humane ways to do this and then there are cruel ways. Any ends-justify-the-means argument falls flat.

    That said, if they want real animal trauma simulation, they should just assign the trainees to follow various SWAT teams around the U.S. and render aid to the swath of wounded dogs lying in their wake. 😉

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  36. Does anyone have more information about this alleged California smart gun? I’m aware that the CA AG has said the technology is available, but haven’t heard of an actual gun store selling an actual “smart gun”. (I have zero interest in buying one, but have been saying “they don’t actually exist!”, and if they do, I should STFU about that.)

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  37. I can turn this around and say that nobody needs to follow a bunch of stories told a couple of thousand years ago if they can’t follow a bunch of laws written a couple of hundred years ago.

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  38. On hotair.com there is a vid of a demo of the gun. It takes about 10 seconds to “arm” the watch, allowing the handgun to be fired.

    NJ is gonna have to institute the 210 ft rule.

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  39. I will never understand why someone would fire a warning shot within their home. If I had to fire within my home, I want “something” to catch lead that I dont/didnt have to pay for.

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  40. Detroit has long taken a positive approach to DGU. What else can you do in a city in which the state has seriously failed in its primary duty of protecting property rights and personal safety.

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  41. Wow, my wife placed third. Betsy is very excited, she has never won anything. She loves shooting any gun but her prize, the Big SheBang, will work well with her G19 Gen 4 FDE. Thanks again to TTAG and Can Can Concealment for the contest.

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  42. First it was the 15 round limit, Now it’s a 10 round limit. I’m sure it won’t end there. Next they’ll tout Dick Dufus Durbin’s idea of a one round magazine.

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  43. There will be some people who don’t care and buy the printers anyway and make guns for fun. Will criminals do the same? Very doubtful. I am not sure most have the time or money to get started. Even with prices dropping they would still have to rob a lot of liquor stores and gas stations to get the money to but the printer, computer and materials. In the time they do that they can just go steal a gun with a lot less effort.

    I will probably buy a 3d printer when the prices come down more. I am a sucker for tech and I could have fun experimenting or making plastic parts for guns and cars. Will I be making large amounts of either? Probably not.

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  44. Mobile phones suffered from all those same drawbacks 30 years ago. Way back in the “dark ages” I told some friends that the day would soon come when people didn’t bother with a “wired” telephone solution. “We will all have a PERSONAL phone and phone number that we’ll take with us wherever we go.” The all laughed at me and said that was ridiculous and impractical. Really? Look at the world we live in today. If I’d had the money to invest in a couple start-ups I’d be a billionaire today.

    3D printing is still in its infancy. The day will soon come when nearly every household has a 3d printer and we won’t be tied to a single color or even material. There’s a company out there that’s already produced a 1911 that was totally built out of 3D printed metal parts. The day’s coming when you’ll be able to plug your memory card into your 3D home printer, load a cartridge filled with the appropriate material and print just about whatever you need. Complex electronic items or some materials (glass) may be out of reach for the foreseeable future but how many simple things might you buy from week to week that you could just as easily print yourself at home? Dishes, Tupperware, storage boxes, electrical wall plates, kids’ toys, home decor items… The list is almost endless. Now thinks what that would mean to world economics. Labor is taken completely out of the production equation for all those items.

    The world is in for some big changes in the near future.

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  45. When I was in college, I studied out of state. I changed my state residence and my address, and the dorm became my home. Allowed to protect yourself in your home, right, Idaho?

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