“It gives us the ability to get close to somebody to talk to them without being in harm’s way.” – Walton County Sheriff’s Office Spokesman Mike Adkinson quoted in MRAP seen as protection by some, extreme measure by others [via nfwdailynews.com] [h/t PetitionForRedress]
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Yes, because when that rams through the front of my house I will assume they are there to talk to me. But at least the removed the turret from the top…
I’m sure the turret along with a Ma Deuce and plenty of ammo is stored nearby; “just in case”.
Oh, yeah. Driving that thing up to my front door will really have a calming effect on me……
Gives new meaning to “Speak softly and carry a big stick”…
In general you should never talk to the police. This is doubly true if they are in an MRAP.
I hope you’re only referring to being in an arrest situation.
You know why cops ask, “do you know how fast you were going?”
So, you will answer and admit to speeding….
Keeping quiet is sound advise, even during simple traffic stops.
I maintain that anytime you get pulled over and asked if “do you know…” answer “Don’t you know why you pulled me over?” or the equivalent for the alleged offense.
Your tax dollars at work.
Actually your tax dollars being wasted…
.mil paid over $250K per and they’re selling them to PDs for $5K.
I wish I could buy one for 5k…
Shoot, it’s gonna cost me over $20k in a few years for an apc.
“It gives us the ability to get close to somebody to talk to them without being in harm’s way.”
Because, everyone needs a 20 ton armored truck to “safely talk to people”, might be a little hard to hear when that behemoth is crashing through your house….
Because they still use rotary dial telephones and party lines there.
“Don’t forget, it’s two rings for Bob… No wait, let’s just drive over in the MRAP!”
Phones do that too…
Most excellent point.
Even carrier pigeons allowed us to do that
I have to wonder how much it costs to get a little rover with a phone on it that can drive up to someone.
The only good reason I see for MRAPs is active-shooter situations like the infamous bank robbery where they had cops and citizens bleeding out but couldn’t get close because the suspects were using suppressive fire. Those situations don’t come along often in most places.
If the cops do it it is “cautious preperation” if we do it it is “gun lunatics over preparing for nothing”
“I know that if somebody was in harm’s way, I wouldn’t let public opinion decide the safety of my deputy,” Adkinson said. “Safety is my number one priority.”
Silly me; I thought that they swore an oath first; to defend the constitution and the civil rights of their citizens; with their life; if need be.
I thought their “safety” was of secondary importance. But I guess I’m old school. Now a days; all that is important is that the public servants(masters) go home at night to their family; screw the constitution or the civil rights that get trampled along the way.
Me; I’ll just stay old school; and accept that my first duty is to my people and the constitution; and the gift of my life is the price I am willing to pay to keep my people free.
Do they have the infantry needed to support their armor? Ask the Hungarians about lessons learned there.
Kind of like a phone, only bigger. Eh?
Like a throw phone? Cell phone? Bullhorn?
Pah! Throw phones and bull horns? When a civilized man wants to have a conversation he always does it from inside an armored car. Why, all of my conversations take place from inside my armored car, parked on the lawn of the person with whom I wish to converse. If that worthy is a gentleman himself he sallies out to meet me in his own armored car and we proceed to converse by shouting at each other through the double layers of armor. Throw phones and cell phones. . . Balderdash! Why, next you’ll tell me that I should ring the bell instead of hitting the door with a battering ram or that there are ways of announcing ones self other than tossing flash bangs throw the windows and . . . good god man just think of what you’re saying! Never mind all that rot! If I were to stop driving my armored truck up to the houses of people with whom I would communicate, exactly what would I do with this 14 ton steel truck eh? You just tell me that won’t you? I thought so! See, I’d have no use for it at all so just forget about all that phone rubbish and get in the MRAP, I want to go visit my mother.
MRAP just goes too show, most wasteful thing in their budget IE: (our money)! Whats not too like? great mileage, comes with all the Amenities! the boys got to hide in something while conducting search and destroy at your local shopping mall, by the time they get it fired up and at location most of the violence has been done away with by the non-special ones! great for show and tell in case the wild life decide too great them! I can see the headline now “I survived for hrs during the lemming Stampede, stuck in my MRAP
What I see here is one beefcake and another that has a beef with cake.
But, at least he is wearing Under armour…
Everyone know you don’t have to actually work out as long as you wear skin tight workout clothes.
“It gives us the ability to get close to somebody to talk to them without being in harm’s way.” Talk to them through a bullhorn……..maybe……….how ya gonna hear any response? Nice tool for holding a “conversation”………..
Exactly what I was thinking.
To be fair, he did say they’d be talking to the person, not with them… The conversation will be mostly one-sided and consist largely of orders and threats.
What? You don’t hold all of your conversations from inside an armored box parked on the front lawn of the person you’re conversing with? There is another way to have a conversation? Balderdash! When civilized men have conversations it’s always from inside an armored box, and if the other side of the conversation is a real gentleman he sallies out to meet me in his own armored car and we shout at each other through the double wall of armor. I find this the only way to effect meaningful communication and I’m not interested one whit in all your fancy bull horns and throw phones and whatnot! Besides, if a were (not that I would you see!), just hypothetically to use a mobile phone or a throw phone or bull horn or such, just what would I do with this 14 ton mine proof armored car I have here hmmm? Just tell me won’t you what I’m supposed to do with this if we’re going to talk on the phone chummy? Just as I suspected, why if we did things your way it would almost seem as if there were no sense in having this armored monstrosity in the first place! Hah! ridiculous!
at what point is the public “quartering” a standing army during peacetime?
these guys refer to everyone else as “civillians”, wear the same armor, carry the same weapons & now drive the same vehicles as enlisted servicemen, minus the oath and the boot camp.
theres no amount of fast-talking or weasel-words that make possession of a “weapon of war” ok by civillian law enforcement. no tanks, no happy-switches & no drones.
Yea, I was just thinking that these don’t look like peace officers to me……
Talk, yea Im sure everyone inside is loaded for talking 🙂
Just watching Blade Runner
“You know the score pal. If you’re not a cop you’re little people”
FUD – they use it to justify everything. Then, when nothing happens, they need to justify the cost of their toys and will employ them to arrest someone over some deadly parking tickets that are unpaid and proclaim it is for public safety.
Because nothing says, “Let’s have us a friendly conversation” than a black MRAP.
So this is going to be used for talking and de-escalation purposes only? I have to say if I saw one of these rolling up on me I would totally see it as peaceful and non-aggressive. It certainly doesn’t look hostile. That’s why it is painted lily white with hippy daisies on it. Oh wait… I’ll grant it is a discussion starter. Or at least it should be.
Clearly that is the only purpose, particularly when someone is barricaded behind a screen door and is unarmed.
“The man, identified as 46-year-old John Geer, negotiated with police for about 40 minutes before a patrol officer fired a single shot into the home and struck Geer.
Geer then barricaded himself inside the home.
In order to help him, the home’s front door was knocked in by a police tanker, and SWAT team members made their way inside at approximately 5 p.m. Officials later confirmed the gunshot fired by police earlier in the afternoon had killed the suspect.”
“IN ORDER TO HELP HIM”!
More like in order to make sure he was well and fully dead.
A corpse can’t testify.
I would bet my life there was no way those pigs were going to get all dressed up and not go home without a kill.
I like the little “commitment to excellence” above the wheel well. Excellence, yes. That’s what they’re after.
Whatever happened to “Protect And Serve”?
It’s been modified:
To protect (our pensions) and to serve (our unions.)
I’ll share with you what happened.
Warren vs DC
Oh yes. They are excellent at some things, they just aren’t the right things.
Yesterday there was another malware attack on TTAG (at least for me). Did other people have this AGAIN and do we know how to stop it?
I’m sorry, maybe it’s because I’m not American but when I think of a ‘Sheriff’ I’m thinking of a salty, but pleasant guy wearing a stetson driving a Crown Vic that offers you pleasant conversation at Denny’s and when you open your jacket to get your wallet he sees your 1911 and does nothing.
Then when you part ways he reminds you, “Get a better holster son, summa these timid folk might call me if they see that. Bullshit if you ask me.”
That’s what I consider a ‘Sheriff’. Now I REALLY never want to visit America.
Be careful, you’re standing on the edge of the same trap that many anti-gunners fall into.
These acquisitions are becoming more publicized, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re happening with greater and greater frequency. I can tell you from personal experience that many sheriffs ARE very much like you described.
We still have a few of those in rural parts of the country. Our local Texas sheriff is pretty easy going (and after a conversation when I ran into him in civilian clothes at an auto parts store) said he would sign off on a SBR application. On the other hand I have run into rural sheriff’s that go out of their way not to be helpful or process paperwork. Thankfully that second one got voted out of office.
No cop just wants to talk to you MRAP or not. Any sounds coming out of your mouth are just noise to be ignored. When they’re on the scene you’re just in the way and they’ll zap you, hog tie you, shoot you and burn your house down to get you out of the way.
They get pissed when you talk to them and they get pissed if you keep your mouth shut. Irrational psychos.
I live two counties east of Walton county here in north Florida. To make it clear how insane this is – Walton county’s population is 59,000. The whole county wouldn’t even make up a good size town. These guys are using this to hunt deer.
A local PD in a village of less than 5000 just recently received a M113 APC. They can only afford 1 full time (the chief) and 4 part time officers, but by god they have an armored personnel carrier! They lack even the resources to defend the stupid thing. It’s sitting in a field near the police station completely unsecured. A joker with a jug of gas and a road flare could take it out on a lark the way it’s secured. Completely senseless and useless, but there it is.
It’s there because they’re waiting for the Feds to build them an American Legion Hall to put it in front of.
They need it to defend Britton Hill.
“It [MRAP vehicle] gives us the ability to get close to somebody to talk to them without being in harm’s way.” – Walton County Sheriff’s Office Spokesman Mike Adkinson
And so does a simple and inexpensive handheld ballistic shield. Epic fail.
Barney Fife Meets Delta Force
What a bunch of total bullshit. 99% of the time these wannabe “operators” will be serving warrants. And its a lock that they will occasionally hit the wrong house, knock then immediately toss in a flash grenade, terrorize the inhabitants, trash the place, and leave without even an apology. Forgot: they will probably shoot the golden retriever since he was “acting aggressive and threatening the safety of the officers”.
Thank the US Govt/Mil Ind Complex for creating a dumping ground for their toys of war, so they can keep buying more from their MRAP vendor buddies. And don’t forget who pays for everything: WE DO.
I have worked very hard to live in a nice relatively crime free area. I am lucky. The local police “get it”, and seem to have the attitude that they are and integral part of the community, not rulers of the masses. If in the future something like this ends up in their parking lot….I will morph into an unrelenting “community organizer”, and shut it down by enlisting an army of intelligent individuals that know what the SWAT/MRAP gig is really about.
One standing in front of the MCRAP got the highspeed POS thigh holster.
After five years with the only use that it gets is 5 annual miles at the 4th of July parade, they will get tired of the expensive maintenance bills and the hard-to-find parts, and sell it as surplus.
No, they’ll just abandon it and let it turn into a wasp condo.
Relax guys, they’re going to be the ones who feel awfully stupid when they roll this thing over trying to do some high speed cool guy shit not realizing how insanely top heavy these things are, and roll them over into a ditch filled with sewage or a river and everyone drowns. I never liked riding in these things. Yes they were much safer from IEDs than Humvees but I would take a Humvee or a good old pair of legs any day over that cumbersome machine. The military is getting rid of these things for a reason.
And who is going to pay to clean up the mess of LEO’s doing stupid things in MRAP’s?
We taxpayers, that’s who.
BIngo. These useless POS were purchase by politicians, mostly who hate the military, to appease their libtard constituents. “See I support the boys even if I hate the war”. If the Army need the stupid things they would have bought them during the Cold War. There was no shortage of $ for NEEDed kit. Now that Obuma has surrendered in Iraq (hows that working out) and in process of same in Afgan the Army is dumping as quickly as possible.
Now the cargo trucks remaining (the few Obuma has not surplused) are dragging around 1/2 of their rated load capacity in cab armor rather than beans/bullets/bandaids.
Ehhh… Not too worried about “light skinned” stuff. I can punch those. Now, if they get frontline MBT’s? Well, as the saying goes, “…you’re Gunna have a bad day…” But so long as they only have infantry support vehicles with no main guns to speak of, then they’re just riding in a nice black coffin.
Yup, the engine compartment has absolutely no armor around it at all. Its just a fiberglass hood just like on any big rig.
This is one area where liberals (or, as I like to say, “good people” or “normal people) and rigthwingers tend to agree. The militarization of the local police departments is a bad trend.
But I am surprised that no “fiscal conservatives” have mentioned the cost. Most of these armored trucks that Navistar built cost the military around $600,000 and they are selling them to local cop shops for something like $5 and the cost of shipping. The only thing that makes sense to me is corporate welfare going to Navistar (who would probably be in dire straights were it not for military sales). It’s too bad they aren’t being mothballed and kept for the next time the military has a need for ’em.
“But I am surprised that no “fiscal conservatives” have mentioned the cost.”
Then you have not been paying attention. The costs of these things, both to buy and to operate, are mentioned often… at least six times on this page alone.
But, way to get another farcical jab in at “fiscal conservatives” since that’s what really matters in this discussion, right?
My experience with “fiscal conservatives” is that they would happily spend big $$$ for the latest military systems program but will be equally happy to take away the benefits of a poor child if it saves 1/100 of the military program. That way the conservative can proudly say that something like a grade school child’s milk program keeps the kid from working.
A lot of this comes down to being a ‘constitutional conservative’ as opposed to a ‘fiscal conservative’. The 10th amendment allocates the responsibilities not specifically given to the federal government in the constitution to the states. Nowhere in the constitution does is the federal government tasked with making sure the children get the right kind of milk at school. Whether the children are allowed to drink chocolate milk (or 2%) in school is a valid issue for the states to decide, at least as far as the constitution is concerned. But what happens is the federal government takes the money from the states in the form of taxes and then uses that money to blackmail the states. This is blatantly unconstitutional.
From the fiscal standpoint, the military is only about 20% of the budget, while the vast majority of the budget is spent on social programs. Granted, attacking the biggest budget busters – social security and medicaid – are far too politically sensitive to tackle. But there is still a ton of waste and abuse. There is a fundamental problem with any government run endeavor and that is a natural lack of accountability. Once a bureaucracy is formed it will never die (short of revolution). We’ve blown trillions of dollars fighting the “War on Poverty” yet poverty still exists as much as it ever did. In fact the problem is worse. In the late 1940s a black 19 year old was more likely to have a job than a white 19 year old. What’s changed? The percentage of black youth with two parents in the home. The welfare state has destroyed the family unit amongst the very people it was intended to help. Nevertheless, no amount of failure can negate the raison d’etre of good intentions.
The one thing that I’ve never been able to understand is why liberals trust government so much. Eight years ago any liberal would tell you that the government is run by either incompetent boobs or evil warlords, so why would they want more control over their daily lives given to the same government? Don’t you know that the next administration that comes in will probably be evil and do things like run guns to Mexican drug cartels and use the IRS to target their political enemies?
John G You really that obtuse and clueless? 1.) The cops get these for FREE. Cops pay for trucking and “conversion”. DOD can not sell them if not “reutilized” so DRMS will scrap the things Normal practice the does not even allow for removal of useful components such as brand new $75000 engines/Allison trans, tires, axles. Would be smashed. So give them to the cops. Better answer would to give them to the Iranians etc and let them go kill themselves.
These POS were purchased by the libtards in order to prove “they supported the troops”. If the Army wanted/need the things they would have been purchased by us conservatives you mindlessly hate during the Cold War.
My experience with “fiscal conservatives” is extremely limited and closed minded.
As a crazy racist right wing hate monger I’m more concerned about the pernicious effects of the militarization of our civilian police than the cost of the militarization. Fiscal conservatives don’t mind paying taxes if their taxes are used wisely, and while this is not a wise use of our money, there are more egregious offenses out there than this. Mothballing machines costs money and the machines need continuing maintenance or they will become worthless. This way the pentagon can write them off and be done with them right away.
A much better use of the money at the local level would be to make every squad car in the department bullet resistant. That zombiewagon won’t be any good to the cops in the field if the whole force has to keep Mr. Badguy pinned down for an hour while someone runs back to the station, finds the keys and gets back with it. And when he does get back what then? Just ram the house and get it stuck in someone’s basement? This is just an exercise in more money than brains and in tone deafness. End the war on drugs, stop running speed traps, lay off 60% of your officers and use the money you save to make sure that every squad car is equipped to deal with an active shooter.
“A much better use of the money at the local level”
might be to invest in some better pre-employment screening.
Hopefully with a 60% reduction in the force the standards could be raised a bit.
That’s a thought. I have seen a BMW 7-series cop car in the use a the South Carolina Highway Patrol (probably in recognition of the BMW assembly plant around Greenville). Maybe the local cops can buy BMW or Mercedes factory armored autos as a cost cutting measure?
(Not dissing you. Just laughing with you at the absurdity of buying a mine resistant cop vehicle).
Yes, if I were a cop I wouldn’t be too concerned about roadside bombs. But a little kevlar in the doors and a bulletproof windshield would be pretty reassuring. It’s kind of like the argument for the .380acp for self defense. Sure a .50BMG would be more effective, but who’s going to carry around a 30 pound rifle everywhere they go. The best defensive weapon is the one you have with you. The best armor is the one that’s in the squad car you drive around in all day, not the gas guzzling behemoth parked back at the station.
That BMW 7 was probably a seizure in “The War On Drugs”.
Well then, you should pay closer attention, because the cost of LEO stupidity is my first complaint in all of this stuff. Every time LEO’s do something stupid, the taxpayers are paying for it.
I firmly believe that LEO’s should have to pay for blatant stupidity out of their own pocket. That should be the first and most used power of any police review board – to say “Golly, that was some industrial-strength stupid right there. Officer W. B. Operator? You have to pay to clean that up, not the taxpayers.”
I suspect the unions might think differently about that.
P1ss on the police unions. They’ve done nothing but enrich their leaders. They’re on the way out. Look at Detroit. Chiraq will be next – they can’t even afford their current pensions and benefits. And I hear New York is talking about cutting due to the cost.
You mean just like in real life?
Yeah, “normal people”–the kind that believe a pasty-faced, blond-haired deep-rug corporate lawyer and Harvard professor is an oppressed “woman of color” needing “affirmative action” from the government., and a mixed-race white/black/Hispanic in cuffs and an orange jumpsuit is the face of “white privilege”.
C’mon they just want to talk to you…and if they make it home to their loved ones safe and sound that’s all that matter’s. Hey rev was THAT an anti-cop comment???
“Don’t mind us. We’re just standing in front of our Zombiewagon waiting for the apocalypse.” – Operator Steve.
And in other news, unicorns have been found to be the cause of global warming, or is it cooling?
Maybe if they painted them a friendlier color?
That’s a thought. If the Monroe County (Florida) Sheriff’s office gets one then it clearly should either be painted like one of the art cars that you see in Key West, or a hot pink.
That’s what I’m saying! I’m thinking a nice sky blue with some grey highlights and chrome fenders.
Oh, like the old UN color scheme. I get it. Practice.
Who pays for the personal property damage these things can cause? I can imagine the ruts created and damage done to sprinkler systems when these things drive over the grass (neighbor’s house, maybe?).
I agree about the color. If they wanted to make it look friendly, as opposed to frightening, they would have chosen a friendly color. Looks to me like there is some machismo involved here.
Hm. So it’s more evil because of its color? Are you sure you want to make the same decades-old argument about vehicles that antis have been making about AR-pattern rifles?
All this says to me is I need an RPG to protect myself… And I don’t even want an RPG. But if they need to continue to snip at my rights…. I’ll have to continue to escalate my defense to restore balance.
Just one word: Thermite.
I can’t fault them for enjoying a really cool truck. I’d even be ok with them putting a water cannon on it. I’m concerned that it’s not the most responsible use of budgetary resources, but as long as they limit themselves to one in the fleet, it may be appropriate. Now if they start having the mindset, “Drive like a soldier, fight like a soldier” then I have a problem. The tools aren’t to be held accountable, but those who use them are.
We should not worry about them having MRAP, but we can worry about what they do with it.
We should worry about the mindset that arms and uniforms patrol officers like combat troops. We should worry about the proliferation of deadly “no knock” raids. Go watch Adam 12, That is how your police should act.
I think we’re missing something, here. The real attraction of MRAP’s is street-cred. A lot of cops seem to favor bad-ass trucks. And an MRAP is the biggest, baddest-ass truck in town. Sorta goes well with the shaved-head, wrap-around sunglasses, “operator” look, don’t you think? To people with the emotional maturity of 13 year old’s, this has all got to be soooo cool.
So what’s the difference between MRAP Ninjas and Chipotle Ninjas? The MRAP Ninjas get paid for it.
Flacid little girly men, is all I’m seeing in that picture. Badge bullies. One of these days, maybe someone’s going to do something and, maybe, one of these days their nonchalant response afterward, too, might be a smug little “It’s just that simple.”
So, the word of the day is………..Molotov!
As if cops aren’t dangerous enough with handguns, shotguns, rifles, automatic weapons, flash bangs, tear gas and on and on and on . . . . What’s next — flame throwers on police cruisers? Fragmentation grenades hanging from their Sam Browne belts? Roadblocks with Claymores instead of spike strips? None of them would surprise me.
Well, the Pentagon just announced that the Army is drawing down their stocks of mines… OH CRAP!
A quote form the linked article:
Statement from Sheriff Mike Akinson, posted June 20 on Walton County Sheriff’s Facebook page:
“It is important to realize that ANY rifle round will penetrate an officers body armor. This includes the common .22cal round.
You sure about that Sheriff?
Living in a neighboring county, okaloosa, and operating frequently in both Okaloosa and Walton county I can honestly say Walton county is nothing but rural farm land and vacation homes in the beach. It’s extremely underdeveloped when compared to it’s neighboring counties, Okaloosa and Bay, there isn’t anything entertainment wise, you can literally tell when driving through Destin, Florida, you can tell where the county line changes because there are stores and entertainment right up until the county line, then it turns into woods. Walton county has no reason to have an armored vehicle, in my opinion, especially when there is almost nothing there. Same story with Santa Rosa county, bordering Escambia county, home of Pensacola, they have almost nothing but they got a new vehicle right about the same time. Welcome to the militarized state of Florida.
The MRAP is what they will roll up in when they come for your firearms.
62 percent of the SWAT raids surveyed were to conduct searches for drugs.
Just under 80 percent were to serve a search warrant, meaning eight in 10 SWAT raids were not initiated to apprehend a school shooter, hostage taker, or escaped felon (the common justification for these tactics), but to investigate someone still only suspected of committing a crime.
In fact, just 7 percent of SWAT raids were “for hostage, barricade, or active shooter scenarios.”
In at least 36 percent of the SWAT raids studies, no contraband of any kind was found. The report notes that due to incomplete police reports on these raids this figure could be as high as 65 percent.
SWAT tactics are disproportionately used on people of color.
65 percent of SWAT deployments resulted in some sort of forced entry into a private home, by way of a battering ram, boot, or some sort of explosive device. In over half those raids, the police failed to find any sort of weapon, the presence of which was cited as the reason for the violent tactics.
MRAPs still look like an Armored Short Bus….
That’s so the mentally deficient can be protected.
“That’s so the Mentally (Morally and constitutionally) deficient can be protected”.
Fixed it for you.
Thank You, I appreciate that. 🙂
Whenever I see the cops with one of these, I think about the scene in “Saving Private Ryan” with the sticky bombs…
Boy, is this a civil service, or a military unit? What happened to the friendly police officer with a side arm, and maybe a shotgun or rifle in cruiser just in cause? If you need a rig
Iike this, isn’t this really the point where National Guard should be called in? Seems so extreme.
What happened to the friendly police officer with a side arm, and maybe a shotgun or rifle in cruiser just in cause [sic]?
He and four of his coworkers are behind the building beating the crap out of a dusky teenager for being Black in Public.
After I read the EPA showed up locked and loaded at an Idaho plumbers shop I figure anything goes.
At last I get Open Carry Texas.
Wonder what kind of gas mileage and what is it’s carbon footprint.
I think there are steel mills with a smaller carbon footprint.
Strange, I keep thinking this website is about guns…
Try a bull horn.
I haven’t the time to read all of the comments, but when I see pics like that, I instantly think of the extreme Open Carry folks… this is the LE equivalent.
This crap makes me want to cheat on my taxes.
How is it possible to cheat the thief who is robbing you?
It’d make a decent riot wagon (just kinda idle along no sharp turns no speeds over 25 mph) but other than that wtf are they gonna use it for??? Can’t talk to no one from it unless they mount a PA on it but I thought the standard cop car came with that already.
“It gives us the ability to get close to somebody to talk to them without being in harm’s way.”
….so does a damn cell phone!
ROFLMAO, I have to laugh, who the hell is going to want to talk when that oversized jalopy pulls up on the front lawn? Certainly not me. I’d be wondering where the war is at!
He who seeketh captivity ended in captivity. We the People….