Quote of the Day: It’s a Matter of Control


“You’re taking the highest level of force and giving it to folks you have no control over, as far as an employee-type (relationship), or it being a state-certified officer. Taking all that out of the picture would worry me somewhat.” – Buncombe County (North Carolina) Sheriff Van Duncan in Senate gun bill allows unrestricted concealed carry [at citizen-times.com]


  1. avatar John L. says:

    And whose control do you answer to, Sheriff?

    1. avatar BlueBronco says:

      May be time to vote his butt out of office and show him. I think Chiefs and police commissioners should be elected as well.

  2. avatar PeterC says:

    Freedom is a scary thing.

    1. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

      Its scariness is exceeded only by the scariness resulting from a lack of freedom….

  3. avatar pyratemime says:

    By my count this makes 3 states contemplating constitutional carry. New Hampshire, North Carolina, and sorta Mississippi. On top of the 6 who currently are (VT, AK, AR, KS, AZ, AND WY).

    Have I missed anyone? Is it possible that by this summer we could have nearly 20% of the country on constitutional carry?

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Ohio is but I haven’t tracked down the bill yet. There was one in the works that was sponsored by a rep from Hamilton County. The bill moving now might be HB142 or 152? In any event, it is supposed to be similar to what Arizona has now.

      1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

        HB 143, unless I’m mistaken.

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Yeah, different mailings had different bill numbers. I just hadn’t checked for myself yet. After reading your other reply, I did a search and came up with HB 147 also from http://www.ammoland.com/2015/04/constitutional-carry-bill-introduced-in-ohio/

          Thanks. 🙂

        2. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Both of these look like changes to the same sections of the Revised Code. I haven’t looked at them side by side yet or even read them individually.

          House Bill 152, introduced by Rep. Hood: https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA131-HB-152

          House Bill 147, introduced by Reps. Hood & Brinkman: https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA131-HB-147

    2. avatar bmharold says:

      West Virginia

      1. avatar gloomhound says:

        Our Governor (Democrat) vetoed it.

        Elections have consequences.

    3. avatar Steve In MA (now RI) says:

      I’d mark Wyoming as a half-credit, since it only applies to residents.

      1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

        Technically true, of course, but the big thing here is that nobody is going to even ask, search you or bother you about it unless you really do something stupid and call attention to the fact that you might be in violation, just as with OC.

        I have not read the text of the law in any other state, so don’t know for sure, but I’d be surprised if all or most of the others don’t have the same residency restriction in one form or another.

        Some of us in WY are working toward removing the “gun free zones” now. Again, technically, all of the same restrictions on where one can CC remain in place, even though most of them are “legal” for OC. Makes no sense at all, but without metal detectors or searches, it doesn’t matter a whole lot.

        1. avatar SteveInCO says:

          No one enforces Colorado’s magazine ban either, but it’s still on the books and it still exerts a chilling effect on our right to purchase and utilize tools of self- and civl- defense.

          Constitutional carry means completely unfettered carrying of arms and it shouldn’t matter what state’s name appears at the top of someone’s driver’s license. WY claiming to be Con Carry is bullshit.

        2. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          “Constitutional carry means completely unfettered carrying of arms”

          By that definition, it doesn’t exist anywhere. I certainly don’t think Wyoming has any sort of “constitutional carry” either, since the only thing that changed was revocation of the mandatory “permit.” There isn’t any state that has actually repealed any of the federal gun laws, re keeping or bearing.

          And, of course, the constitution has absolutely nothing to do with the natural authority each and every human being has to defend their lives, families and property.

          So, “constitutional carry” is merely a phrase used by some to indicate a situation where one does not necessarily need a specific permission slip to CC… as long as they “qualify” by state and federal criteria otherwise – not “too young” or a “prohibited person.” Nothing about all that in the “constitution” either.

      2. as far as it “only applying” to residents…..if anyone worth their salt who understands the Constitution, a state can not create a class of people who do not have the same an equal rights as the several states. That is literally no different than saying that the Disabled have certain rights so say we the state of whatever the hell……but only our residents can use the ramps……equal protection. If they declare it a Constitutional Right” it applies to everyone who passes through or who resides in the state……these idiot politicians are seriously screwing up EVERYTHING……Is there anything about the Constitution that they do understand, not that it even really Federally exists…..that is just a behemoth Corporation that absorbed the legitimate government in 1868 . If the States do not get a grip we will fall to the UN thanks to the Federal Corporation.

    4. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

      To my knowledge, this is the complete 2015 list for states attempting to pass constitutional carry:

      Colorado — passed the Senate, died in the House
      Idaho — introduced, no progress
      Indiana — introduced, no progress
      Kansas — ENACTED AND EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2015
      Maine — still in progress, I think
      Mississippi — passed the Senate, killed in the House, supposedly because some pro-gun guy was harassing legislators
      Montana — VETOED by the governor after having passed the legislature
      New Hampshire — passed Senate, in the House
      Pennsylvania — introduced, no progress
      South Carolina — introduced, basically no progress
      South Dakota — passed the House, killed in Senate committee
      Tennessee — killed in committee
      Texas — introduced, no progress
      Utah — passed Senate, died in the House
      West Virginia — VETOED by the governor after having passed the legislature

      I’m sure it’s possible I’ve missed one. If I have, please let me know.

      1. avatar Kelly in GA says:

        I think Georgia, too, but it would be either no progress or killed in committee. georgiacarry.org will tell you

        1. avatar Braenen says:

          The Georgia bill was a steaming pile of crap. It was poorly written, had typographical errors, and it failed to actually modify the laws in the way intended. It was written by Georgia Gun Owners, an affiliate of National Association for Gun Rights. As is their way, they put forward a crappy bill in order for it to be shot down so that they could then raise a stink in their emails and raise more money.

          Whats more, they failed to work with the legislators on the bill. When the legislators attempted to correct the errors, GGO accused them of “gutting the bill” and being “traitors”.

          GeorgiaCarry.org was blindsided by the submission of the bill. When the leadership read it, they called it out for the piece of crap it was. Again GGO used that in one of their mail bombs.

          GGO and NAGR are not our friends.

        2. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

          Interesting news, Braenen.

          The Mississippi bill was killed allegedly because legislators were being misled and/or harassed by some folks from “Mississippi Gun Rights” – also an affiliate of NAGR. And the leader of NAGR was throwing a fit about a proposed Colorado bill that would have reduced, but not completely eliminated, the magazine capacity restrictions, because while it made progress, wasn’t a full repeal.

          I’ll keep in mind to keep away from NAGR and its affiliated groups.

      2. avatar John Botts says:

        Iowa also has a bill. I think it may have passed the House, but will get tabled in the Senate, as it’s Democrat controlled.

        1. avatar BigBoy says:

          The. Iowa bill is in grave danger. The local affiliate of NAGR, Iowa Gun Owners, is torpedoing the bill because (1) its not their bill so they can’t raise money off its passage and (2) it isn’t perfect.
          NAGR, IGO and MGR (the Minnesota affiliate) are all merely in the business of scaring low information gun owners out of their hard earned dollars. See full expose at http://www.shotinthedark.com Blog.

        2. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

          Sheesh. It sounds like NAGR and its affiliates are a bunch of folks who are absolutely clueless about politics and/or care more about themselves than about actually making progress for the gun rights movement.

    5. avatar KCK says:

      WY is only Constitutional Carry for WY residents
      Out of staters have to have a WY recognized CCW permit. They don’t issue to non-residents
      I’m from WI, so I have to get a UT or FL to carry in WY. Except a FL doesn’t cover MN, my neighbor state but UT does. But I need a FL to carry in NM because UT is not recognized there.
      Makes sense doesn’t it.

      1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

        The Wyoming concealed firearm permit statute provides that Wyoming will honor permits from other states, if:

        1. the other state recognizes Wyoming permits; and

        2. the permit from the other state is valid statewide.

        Under our current law, if you are a permit holder from another state, if your permit is valid statewide and your state recognizes (or honors) Wyoming permits, you can carry a concealed firearm in Wyoming.

        Wyoming has reciprocity with the following states: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

        1. avatar KCK says:

          USA Carry website must be out of date.
          WY stays red when I select my state WI.
          Thanks for the update.

        2. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          That update was not from USA Carry, but from the Wyoming statute itself. Check the URL, please. http://wyomingdci.wyo.gov/dci-criminal-justice-information-systems-section/concealed-firearms-permits

          I know that there isn’t any way to actually stay up to date on this stuff… the fools change their minds endlessly, and are bad about posting either changes or reality at any time. We just have to do the best we can.

          As I said earlier, most of us actually here in WY don’t worry a lot about it because nobody’s checking to see if you are a resident or not anyway. But I like to keep current as possible for those who do worry about it. Stay safe!!

        3. avatar JR Pollock says:

          There are a lot of websites out there that don’t keep up with the changes in reciprocal agreements. If you’re planning a trip out of state, contact the offices of the Attorney General in the state(s) you plan to visit. Virtually every state AG has a website, or other means to ascertain whether your carry license is valid in their state. If you find yourself jammed up by an unfriendly cop, like Shaneen Allen, it could cost you big time.

  4. avatar BillC says:

    At least he’s honest about it. No, “Well yes, but…”

  5. avatar James says:

    I think the badge is starting to get to his brain. Totalitarians speak in terms of controlling people because they are corrupted by their sense/need for power. You’re a public servant dear Sheriff, not a feudal lord managing peasant serfs.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Well, he IS in Buncombe County…home to Asheville – one of the most liberal (and Statist) pockets in the State.


      See that lone little blue spot in the Western Region? That’s this Sheriff’s county.

      The other liberal pockets are: Greater Charlotte area, the Triangle and for some reason, the Northeastern counties along the VA border.

  6. avatar Benny the Jew says:

    “You’re taking the highest level of force and giving it to folks you have no control over…”

    Funny, that’s how I feel about you, Sheriff, and the a$$holes in Washington.

    1. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

      +1 I didn’t interview or hire any of my local police. How do I know who they are? What their personal life is like? Why should I trust them with the power to take someone’s life? What in the training and interview process makes them so sure a police officer won’t snap and kill someone for fun?

    2. avatar vv ind says:

      This. Nailed it.

    3. avatar Grindstone says:


  7. avatar Ben says:

    And criminals already took the power that you didn’t give them, Sheriff, and you still have no control over them.

  8. avatar 'Liljoe says:

    Just as we criticize Muslims for not speaking out against extremist terrorists, I think we need to get the majority of police who do not think this way (except for places like ny, nj etc) to speak out against this though process. If enough of them stood up and said “we don’t agree” to people like him maybe it would help promote freedom and basic rights in this country.

    1. avatar Red in Texas says:

      Good luck with that. The “Thin Blue Line” is seldom broken.

  9. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    Yes, it is all about control, isn’t it…

    1. avatar Taylor TX says:

      It really helped by reading the quote in my best Judge Dredd voice, I AM THE LAW!!

  10. avatar Omer Baker says:

    Hierarchy: rank and file officers, managerial police, citizens. So in my mind there IS an employee type control, he’s just misinformed on the employee/employer roles. Sounds to me like he’s too big for his britches and needs a new job, one where he’s entrusted with an appropriate amount of authority, i.e. no authority.

  11. avatar Blake says:

    Thanks, Sheriff, for letting us know the “control” part of “gun control” is what you’re really after. Guns are merely the excuse.

  12. avatar ThomasR says:

    Ahh, control. The drug of choice for tyrants. Like any addict, they need more and more of it to keep getting the high. And instead of rotting teeth like meth, it rots the soul.

  13. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “… and giving it to folks you have no control over”


    You aren’t in charge of us so you don’t get to control us.

    And you don’t give us our rights or responsibilities.

    You, Mr Van Duncan, are a Civil Servant tasked with a very specific job. Do not forget who it is whom you work for or we will remind you in a way you will not appreciate.

    1. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

      “Do not forget who it is whom you work for or we will remind you in a way you will not appreciate.”
      Yea! If I head down to NC I’ll eat a bunch of white castle before I go crop dust his office.

  14. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

    It seems to me that the founding fathers wrote about this a couple of centuries ago. What did they call that document…oh yea, the ‘Constiturion’

    I guess that’s why they call it ‘constitutional carry’..

  15. avatar Shire-man says:

    I don’t have any control over the sheriff so disarm him.

  16. avatar Raul says:

    Oh… What IS that line???? Come on, people. Help me here…

    Yes! That’s it.

    If you are doing nothing wrong, Sheriff, you have nothing to fear.

    (Isn’t that what you tell us?)

  17. avatar Chip Bennett says:

    I believe Sheriff Van Duncan has the employee-employer relationship exactly backwards. Interestingly, correcting for that problem results in his expressed concern still being valid.

    1. avatar Bob says:

      You are not an “employer” when the “employee” pays himself by pointing a gun at you and forcing you to pay him (taxation).

  18. avatar Tom W. says:

    There’s that “C” word again from technically what is a public servant.

    A gun, lights on your car/MRAP, and badge don’t give you extra rights to diminish or infringe upon mine.

  19. avatar Custodian says:

    Buncombe County aka where Asheville is located is one of the super liberal enclaves of the Tarheel state.

    Ditto with Wake, Orange, Durham, New Hanover, and Mecklenburg Counties.

    I am simply not surprised that this sheriff is worried. The state of North Carolina won’t be “safe” for the carpet bagging Yankees from up north with their fat state pension plans.

  20. avatar JoshtheViking says:

    “Highest level of force”

    They’re giving us WMD’s?

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Better… .45ACP launched from the holy tube itself, the 1911. 😀

      1. avatar ThomasR says:

        From the mouth of the most high straight to the ear of the prophet Moses.

        John Moses Browning to be exact. 🙂

  21. avatar Ken says:

    Hope he is up for reelection soon and gets booted out of office.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Not from Buncombe. That he’s fighting ConCarry will be a rallying cry and he’ll be celebrated exactly for this kind of quote.

      Buncombe is one of NC’s outlier counties. He’s a Statist, control-freak Sheriff in a county dominated by Statists. They have the Sheriff they want.

      1. avatar Another Robert says:

        Sounds like an appropriate name for the county, I guess.

        1. avatar foggy says:

          It certainly is, it is actually the origin of the expressions “bunkum, bunk and debunk” in American English.


  22. avatar Another Robert says:

    Wow, he sure didn’t make any bones about it, did he? “folks you have no control over”… BTW, when did a handgun (we’re talking about concealed carry, right?) become “the highest level of force” ? Has this guy never heard of, say, full-auto rifles even?

  23. avatar Mediocrates says:

    damn pesky Constitution…

  24. avatar mk10108 says:

    The finest example of disconnect between police and its citizens. Thinking a uniform & badge arbitrates who can lawfully protect themselves where & when.

    The bigger question is why do citizens tolerate this nonsense that police protect, when data shows peoples lives are harmed by criminals.

    His words and actions are morally unconscionable.

  25. avatar Anonymous says:

    Buncombe County Sheriff Van Duncan, a Democrat, said he has not read the bill and can’t say definitively where he stands, but the notion of an unlimited concealed carry gives him pause. It’s similar, he contends, to when the idea of allowing teachers or administrators to carry guns in schools surfaced after the Newtown, Connecticut, school shooting.

    “You’re taking the highest level of force and giving it to folks you have no control over, as far as an employee-type (relationship), or it being a state-certified officer,” Duncan said. “Taking all that out of the picture would worry me somewhat.”


    You are elected by the people of your region. You are under their control, not they are under your control. Furthermore, the senate bill is legislation proposed by representatives of the people.

  26. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Then quit your job Mr. Sheriff. Go home, curl up in a corner, grab your binky and start sucking your thumb.
    You would serve the people better by doing so.

  27. avatar J. Zoss says:

    When someone fattened with tax dollars worries about something reducing their ability to control the very people paying those taxes it is somehow lost on them that many will view their concern as nothing but a positive.

    Here is to hoping this guy has a lot more to worry about in the future regarding freedom exercised by people he doesn’t know or control which happens to include most people in the world.

  28. avatar arsh says:

    A cop talking about control when I can’t go a day without hearing about one either executing someone or running them over with a freaking car. I think we know where the control issue is and why everyone’s starting to carry themselves.

    1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      Freedom and liberty are always worrisome concepts to people who’s basic mindset is authoritarian. Basically, his statement is a soft-politics version of the socialist/progressive creed that if you don’t have top down hierarchy controlling things you’ll have chaos. In his view, all these uncontrolled people walking around with guns wouldn’t know their proper place. And if they don’t know their place, how will he know his? No wonder he’s a democrat politician.

  29. avatar Another Robert says:

    Hey guys, apparently they are not talking about “constitutional carry” in NC; at least that’s not what Sheriff Control is talking about. He is responding to a proposed bill that would create a special enhanced CC permit that would allow the holder to carry anywhere a cop can carry. The permit would require “intensive training” that includes simunition training; the projected cost is @ $1000 according to the article. The article also mentions another proposed bill that would drop the requirement of a permit just to buy a handgun. None of that sounds like “constitutional carry” to me.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      It does get confusing as we have quite a number of bills working their way through both House and Senate. 2013-2014 saw big improvements in NC, and 2015-2016 could continue that trend.

      Here’s the House ConCarry bill:


      It will be interesting to see how all this plays out. There is some overlap of restored freedoms by the various bills, so they are in some ways redundant (but the overlap is not complete).

      I can’t remember about S708, but I can say that Grass Roots NC is supporting H699 linked above, as well as several others in the House.

      1. avatar Another Robert says:

        Thanks for the clarifications.

  30. avatar Ray says:

    Hey Van, that brown stuff on your nose when you leave the Mayor’s office is NO shoe polish.


  31. avatar tripster2001 says:

    First: It is not the highest level of force unless this bill allows machine guns, 50 mm cannons, cruise missiles….

    Second: The term “highest” is relative to the other forces. If two folks have similarly capable handguns, they are at a relative zero level. If nobody has one, the big strong guy has the highest level of force for the young woman. If only lawbreakers have guns, then they have the highest level of force over the rest of us.

  32. avatar Ralph says:

    Walter Scott’s family should rest easy knowing that Officer Slager was state certified and fully under control when he shot Mr. Scott in the back.

    1. avatar foo dog says:

      Serve and Protect…

      Citizens serve the Elite, including the police who protect their right to get home after shift.

  33. avatar Silver says:

    A gun is the highest level of force?

    Are statists really this delusional and paranoid?

  34. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    Poor baby…

  35. avatar Megalith says:

    So, in essence, you’re saying you don’t trust your boss’s. You know, the people who pay your salary through taxes. Maybe you should go find another job then, Nazi loser.

  36. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    The NC pistol permit needs to go. It’s ridiculous and doesn’t do squat to prevent crime.

    1. avatar Jandrews says:

      It does, however, fill the coffers of Sheriff’s offices and expand their budgets. As usual, one follows the money.

    2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Here ya go:


      If you are in NC…call/email those Representatives/Senators.

      This is one of many bills wending through the General Assembly this go-round.

    3. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Even if it did prevent crime, it’s an infringement so, yeah, it ought to go.

      The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless such law prevents crime.

  37. avatar foodog says:

    This Chiefs ‘narrative’ just creeps me out. His belief that somehow, we the citizens serve him, in the same framework as the employees ar sheriffs department, and deputies that he ‘gives’ Force to, is just another proof that power corrupts, absolutely, over time for some,

  38. avatar Ozzallos says:

    “…no control over, as far as an employee-type (relationship), or it being a state-certified officer…”

    Apparently being a state certified officer or having an employee type relationship doesn’t stop one from shooting an unarmed somebody multiple times in the back and dropping a pistol on their dead body to make it look like a good shoot.

    Wait, who was the oversight there? Oh hay, a non-officer person without an employee type relationship recording the thing on their cell phone.

    …The truth! IT BURNS!

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