“We can anticipate gun aficionados clamoring that ‘who wouldn’t point a gun at an unknown intruder in their home??’ — something we can all surely understand — but let’s play devil’s advocate. What if there wasn’t a gun? What if the homeowner, instead, had a stun gun, a bat; a knife? Isn’t it likely that having that gun in his hand made it too easy for him to pull the trigger (reportedly four or five times) and kill an unarmed teenage boy already making his way out of the house? Of course it is. Guns simply make death — accidental, intended, suicidal — far too easy.” Lorraine Devon Wilke, Beyond Mental Health and Gun Control Is This: Guns Make Death Too Easy [via huffingtonpost.com]
Unarmed teenage boy who broke into an occupied home. Yes guns make death easier easier for 1 man to deal with many, easier for a grand mother to deal with a 20 year old, easier for a man who spends his days behind a desk to defend himself from an ex con that spent the past 5 years lifting weights at the state pen. Guns are called equalizers for a reason.
It’s never good when someone dies, and it sucks that it comes to that in some situations but it does. You don’t unlawfully enter someone’s house and expect to walk out OK in spite of having the best intentions: you never wanted to harm anyone and just needed to take a little something so you can feed your family. Well, life doesn’t always work that way. If you think it ought to be safe to unlawfully enter someone’s house then you probably think bull runs ought to be a good way to get a leisurely walk.
Such misguided compassion.
You should’ve read all the articles after Sandy. There were a lot of people with “looters will be shot” signs out in front of their property. That was just too much for the writers and readers of rags like Slate and the NY Times to handle. I can’t tell you how many “if people are taking stuff, it’s because they need it to survive” comments I read… because you can eat a 52″ flat screen and somehow the person that was being stolen from didn’t need any supplies to survive themselves. If those pious a-holes lived in those areas, instead of their high security Upper West Side apartments, they’d know that the people taking stuff after the storm were the same ones doing B & E’s before the storm.
Most home invasions aren’t one unarmed teenager. I suppose those people are just SOL in her world.
More importantly, a homeowner who discovers a home invader has no way of knowing if the invader is a teenager (like that even matters), whether the invader is armed, nor whether the invader has partners.
Homeowners do not have the advantage of hindsight. They usually have one or two seconds to respond. Too bad for the home invader.
I never understand gun grabbers. Rather than chastising criminals who break into homes, they chastise citizens who own firearms. I have to wonder if gun grabbers are criminals themselves … who else would advocate for safer conditions for violent criminals?
Well this horribly flawed logic is exactly what I would expect out of such a fine publication.
Yes, guns do make death easier, which is a good thing in a defensive situation. If a person chooses to commit an act which will put them in a position where a legally justifiable shooting is a potential threat, it should cause any sound mind to reconsider.
Without guns, those aiming to commit murder, rape, or robberies do not have much to fear. A close range contact oriented weapon such as a bat, knife, or stun gun is far less lethal which will make criminals more brazen and also puts the victim in risk of increased harm. So with this, guns also prevent death or bodily harm to the good guy.
But this does not mesh with the lib mentality, any death is an excuse to wave a bloody shirt especially if it is a poor disadvantaged and mistreated by the world career criminal. Any life to these libtards is worth saving. Hmmm, no. I don’t care how many hugs and praises and forms of government aid you give bad apples, they will continue to be bad apples, and if they plan to victimize another party they deserve to be looking down the barrel of a gun.
And in their next breath they’ll say, “look at the UK, look at Australia where there are almost no gun deaths!”, places where exactly what you describe have become history for all to see. After the UK’s gun ban crime with lesser weapons increased so dramatically they had to ban knives, and Australia takes away first prize in the world in the number of crime victims per capita, with and without guns involved. Flawed logic stemming from a flawed delusion of utopia.
Many companies over the last century+ have spent a great deal of time and money on R&D to make death by firearms easier and more efficient and more reliable. It seems to be what their customers are asking for.
A gun is an equalizer. It makes defense of yourself and your family more feasible. On a different note, death has always been easy. She obviously hasn’t seen how quickly a broadsword, which has been around for centuries, can cut a person in half. Heck, in ancient Japan, the way they rated a sword was by seeing how many people it could cut through at the same time.
“Guns simply make death — accidental, intended, suicidal – far too easy”
Technology makes many things easier. Mankind now knows of firesticks that kill at a distance. Penicillin & planes too.
Genie
Bottle
Out
The same argument could be mad about congresses power to tax. Makes it to easy to pass more taxes. Or NYC police officers continual shooting of innocent bystanders.
Guns in hands also make it easier to protect yourself from some MF the violently entered YOUR home to visit harm to you and steal your belongings.
I usually don’t wish bad things on people but I hope that someone breaks into the editor and writers of the HP and gives them a lesson as to why you cannot depend on the police to protect you.
I think this is the third or fourth thread on this subject since this started with a city in New Jersey. The answer to the questions is one simple sentence:
This manufacturer complies with all state and federal regulations.
If the manufacturer answering in this manner loses, they should challenge the award of the contract and tie it up in court for years. No new firearms for NYPD from anybody until it gets resolved.
Did the author at the HuffingtonPost miss out on the fact that these are “CRIMINALS”? Or are they trying to turn them into some other protected class of people? Hmmmm
I was going to comment on the article, but it was quickly devolving into hate speech. I have an extremely difficult time empathizing with someone who values their life and the lives of their loved ones so little that they would not do anything to protect them.
Now, full disclosure: I don’t know if I could pull the trigger in a DGU if I had to. I may freeze up. It happens to people far better trained than I. It’s a distinct possibility.
The subtle difference is that I am willing to give myself and my family a fighting chance. The author and many, many more who share her viewpoints are unwilling to even do that.
Rather than put myself in the shoes of the intruder, as the author of that piece clearly did, I’d rather look at it from the perspective of the homeowner. In his place, I probably would not have started any controversy over shooting an intruder in the back, I highly doubt I would have given him the chance to turn around. But let’s play with the other hypotheticals:
Stun gun/TASER: What happens when the battery runs out, and that “unarmed teenager who made a mistake” is not unarmed, and didn’t make a mistake?
A bat: First off, that is making a huge assumption about the physical condition of the homeowner. Also, it was a hallway confrontation, which means in order to get a viable swing, the wielder would have to come down, over the head. It’s going to be just as fatal, given the adrenaline surge, only much more painful and messy, since it’s unlikely anyone who has gotten to the point they felt they must defend themselves would stop hitting until their arms were too tired to continue. Not to mention the fuzzy legality of having a bludgeon as a weapon. You’d better have a glove and a ball to go with the Louisville Slugger, or you could be facing some interesting charges in most states.
A knife: same as the bat. Four or five gunshots are more likely to be survivable than dozens of slash and stab wounds.
The real lesson is far simpler: Don’t break into houses.
Behold, the bankrupt philosophy that a bad guys life is some precious resource which must be protected.
In point of fact, the least valuable thing on Earth is the life of a scumbag invading another man’s home.
I give them several choices… Home defence Full Sized semi auto like an XD, Glock, M&P or 1911. I tell them hand fit makes more difference when you have narrowed it down to a quality weapon.
Then for concealed carry… I say snubby Ruger, SW 642. I like as deep of carry cover as possible and thus want to be able to pocket carry to IWB carry.
For range time… The home defense guns all work or anything that trips your fancy just avoid Lorcins, Hi Point, and some Kel Techs.
Actually I tell them to eye shotguns first for home defense… Pump shotgun preferably in the 870 or 500 model. 20 gauge if you never had a shotgun or shoot much.
IF the story’s true, I don’t think the homeowner should’ve shot the kid in the back.
That said: his house, his rules. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Don’t get so damn drunk you don’t know where your own house is.
Somewhat related, but a drunk guy got into my friend’s house and crashed on his couch. He woke up with a Mossberg 500 aimed at his face and a stern warning never to make the mistake again.
Use a knife or a bat? Arent these the same clowns that tell us that a bad guy will just take a gun out of our hands and use them against us? If that were true, why in the hell would I greatly decrease my effective range to arms length?
No way! Don’t you watch movies?
When people are stunned with stun guns they go unconscious immediately and stay that way for hours. And, one good stab to the gut is instant death for any would be assailant, good pocket knife or stun gun is all you need.
When did street crime become the Knights of the Freakin’ Round Table? I’ll abide by the law, to be sure, and that means all of the law, including threat or use of deadly force if circumstances imposed upon me by a criminal demand it. However, don’t expect one iota of concern for good manners out of me in the midst of defending myself against a reasonably believed-to-be deadly threat.
Who ARE these whiny criminal apologists who would afford every home invader and burglar innumerable time-outs, do-overs, and chances to cry “King’s X”, while the rest of us get but a split second of terror to determine how best to save our families, followed by a lifetime of second guessing by others?
I posted this video on FB to annoy my liberal friends 🙂
Honestly I think it is disturbing that MLK has become a sacred cow and if you point out his plagiarism, womanizing and personal faults (such as an affinity for Communists) you are immediately considered a racist malcontent. I am not a racist a malcontent, I am just willing to question the diktats of political correctness.
I went to grade school in a district that embraced integration in the form of busing. For some grades they would bus black kids from the inner city to the burbs where I lived, and in other grades they would do it the other way around, bus us white kids to what was quite literally the ghetto. I graduated High School in 2002.
For three years I had to endure a long and unnecessary bus ride, almost an hour each way. The bus ride would eventually become shorter, but the experience remained the same throughout. The black kids would all sit in the back of the bus and do really reckless things, like throw objects out the window on the interstate and get in brutal fights. When I say “all” I am not exaggerating in any way. The black kids I rode the bus with practiced self segregation and in school it was hard to make black friends after a certain grade, because it got worse as we all got older.
In fourth through sixth grade when I was bused into the inner city, they pushed MLK very hard. They wanted us to worship the man. Even then, before I knew the truth about him, I found it odd that we had to recite this man’s speeches in large groups for an audience, in a very drawn out and over the top fashion. It felt very silly, especially since every day I was reminded that his so-called dream had not come to pass but for the machinations of the state, which had made a mockery of it.
I respect Colion’s viewpoint and I am sure he knows many of the more unsavory things about MLK. Many people know these things, but hardly anyone wants to bring them up for obvious reasons. Personally, I have a dream that some day men of all races will not be bound by the chains of political correctness and collectivism and forced to kowtow before the indoctrinated masses to gain approval.
MLK was in many ways a cretin, but he was in a position of influence at a key moment in history and he was a gifted public speaker. I’m not sure the man is deserving of his present legacy, but it is what it is and I don’t expect people to appreciate the truth of the matter for some time, if at all. My only fear is that the legacy of MLK is being or will eventually be used to promote something profoundly un-American.
240B is NOT lightweight compared to an M60…perhaps the lightweight version is, but regular version is 5lbs or so heavier. Feels like even more than that. That being said, the 240B is amazing…put the regulator on position 3 (I think they have since gotten rid of this) and you had a 1200rpm weapon that was my favorite machine gun to shoot…until I shot the M2 🙂
The 240 is nice, but I’m in love with the M60…stupid rambo movies….
I just want a compact .45 ACP from Glock. Is that too much to ask?
Seriously love my G21, but a G19 sized .45 would be amazing.
That’s the point. Killing somebody with a bat or baton is and should remain hard.
Weinstein is an uber-connected New York lib elite. He could have a NYC CCW permit in ten minutes flat.
The rest of us? Not so much.
Isn’t it really hard to microstamp a bullet? I get stamping the casing but the bullet?
The two first questions seem reasonable but shouldn’t that be the dealers responsibility.
According to Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, Obama and the other race war inciters, whites must submit to beatings from people of color. Oh, and there is no such thing as the “knockout game.”
Based on JMB’s (PBUH) BAR. The M240 just works, you could feel the M60 getting ready to fall apart. My feelings about the M2HB (another JMB product) vis a vis the M85 are the same. The first, masterpiece of design, the second, designed by technocrats with no love for their craft and apparently no responsibility to clean up their mess afterwards. Since the M60 ‘borrowed’ design features of the MG42 I’d have been happy if we’d just rechambered MG42’s or bought West German MG3’s.
The front edge of all those magazines need some razor sharp projections to make it really nasty looking. And it definitely needs a better name, like Fully Operational Death Star, for Operators.
How exactly did a teenager with no arms break into the home?
Even then, he could kick you to death depending on the size difference.
More people are murdered each year with hands and feet than with rifles.
Sometimes the target is a child or woman in the home. Shasta Groene,or the Petit family.BTK just wanted to get off while killing.Still comply and hope they let you live?
Once a criminal has control over you they may decide to rape and kill you even if they just entered the home to steal items.Happens all the time.People have a right to protect their family.
A fantasy to think society is safe.
It’s a magazine AND a bipod! I like.
That looks like a stick figure with an AR head.
This silly ass person wants us to believe that we are better off to take the risk of not killing an unarmed teenager who entered our residence illegally, than to take the risk of being killed or maimed by an armed criminal entering our residence illegally. That’s hysterical (and I mean that in the sense of screaming out loud “What the hell are you thinking?” hysterical)! I am guessing statistical data is on my side when I say to her, “Here’s a clue, historically far, far more unarmed homeowners have been killed, maimed and terrorized by armed criminals illegally entering their residences than unarmed teenagers entering peoples’ residences illegally, so explain to me how you arrived at this ridiculous, moronic statement. You cannot and you know you cannot. So, take the money you got from HuffPo for writing this garbage and go buy yourself some bloodred shoes to show your contempt for all the truly innocent people you just said ought to be killed in lieu of one criminal, stupid teenager. At least that would be ONE honest thing you’ve done.
If you look at other tests of this DRT ammo… it DOES work… much like a magsafe or Glaser. Not sure why this .380 was such a fail… I saw some 9mm and .45 tests that looked pretty darn effective. For .380… I would stick to loading the mags with alternating magSafe and Gold Dots… and always shoot at least twice.
I totally agree with the author, Joe Grine. And unlike most of the whiners who seem to have trouble with fact based reality, I speak from first hand experience. I own a Lion Heart LH9. It is super piece and well worth possessing. If I only had one 9mm hand gun in my collection, this would be my weapon of choice.
“The movie came up while Weinstein was promoting another movie about Jews who rebelled against the Nazis in the Warsaw ghetto. That movie is “not Holocaust story as much as it is Jews with guns,” Weinstein said. “When injustice is so great, you can’t just march into the camps.”
Anyone who’s studied the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising knows that it wasn’t a valiant last stand. It was a punctuation mark on a horrific failure of humanity. The civilized world watched as Jews were systematically murdered. Jews watched as their neighbors were murdered and no one acted until over 100,000 had been sent to their deaths in Treblinka.
The uprising was no Thermopylae. I started studying it thinking it was but firsthand accounts of survivors were sickening. One story (I think told my Marek Edelman, but I’m not sure) was of a large group of Jews confined in a room who listened as a few Nazis gang-raped a young woman in a back corner, right in front of all of them. The Jews had been disarmed. They did nothing to stop it.
Being armed isn’t just about having guns. Owning a firearm provides not only the tool to resist oppression, but also gives you the psychological choice to resist. If you’re armed with a pitchfork, it’s easy to say to yourself “there’s nothing I can do against these oppressors. I must submit.” But if you’ve got a folding stock AK slung over your back, are you going to stand there and watch someone being gang-raped and do nothing?
I’ll leave that choice to each of you.
Is that an Auto 5 in #3?
Do you suppose the staffer who researched this one still has a job? What else is this guy so grossly misinformed on? BTW, after looking at this a couple of times, is there a barrel on that pig??
First time I seen the video above & man that was funny as sh1t. I know I’m preaching to the choir we gotta eradicate the libs/commies agendas back 50-100 years. All the way to repeal the Sullivan Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Act
No middle ground, No negotiating, & No compromises…
Bet that DoubleTap pocket pistol is lookin pretty good now, huh.
I am, in general, not thrilled with many open carriers “in your face” attitude. It’s not just offputting but looks intimidating to those not used to seeing someone walking around with a gun.
That said, at a mere 40 years of age, I can remember as a child that having a firearm used to be no big deal. We’ve changed a lot in the last 30 years as a culture. Many kids have no idea that trucks used to have gun racks. Even in the small town where my brother-in-law lives, he keeps his coyote gun behind the truck seat for fear it may be stolen and certainly someone in town would probably get the vapors if they knew he was driving around with a loaded weapon. (Nevermind he has a concealed carry permit as well and served in Iraq)
I also feel that this lack of general gun education, that treating them as objects of loathing, and not properly educating our children on firearms actually makes guns less safe. My kids know what to do around firearms and know when it is appropriate to handle them. I only lock up my guns because I have no such confidence in their friends.
He kept saying “weapon”. Really? It looks like the toy firearms equivalent of a Rubik’s cube to me.
Possibly the greatest editorial cartton,of all times! And from the LA TIMES! Who woulda thunk it?
Only in an era of post-Constitutional government, would those who stand for the Constitution be declared radicals for whom there is no place in one of the 50 supposedly United States.
When members of Congress, who are sworn to support and defend the Constitution, declare it to be just an old piece of paper they should be expelled from their office.
This. Is. Beautiful. 😀
I called the Customer Service Line. The fellow I talked to knew nothing about this. For myself and my fellow Lost Souls of California my advice is this: Follow the drop dates on the Roster. I do not know what else to make of this.
I’m half his age and that Barrett would kick me all over God’s creation. Watching him control that with almost no body movement is absolutely amazing. I’m not worthy.
If Wal Mart policy prevents employees from stopping thieves, who are we to interfere?
Two farts in a giggle box; why stop there? Why not suggest a BANANA for righteous self-defense?
There’s never a Jeremy Clarkson around when you need one.
Call me crazy, but isn’t the point of a tiny gun that it’s easier to carry on-body? If you’re going to carry in a purse, carry more gun… like, well, anything.
I believe marijuana should be completely legal, strictly because as I read the Constitution I don’t see any authority in there to make it illegal.
That said, right now marijuana is illegal at the federal level. So, really, Illinois is violating federal law by allowing marijuana use in the first place, then violating the Constitution in reaction to their own violation of the law…..I’m getting all eye twitchy…
To many anti American Foreigners in government leads to the dismantling of the United States from within. Prejudice? Damn right it is…
I swear, those Glocks have minds for their own, they just go off randomly and without warning, an unsavory lot those Glock pistols.
Assuming that the data is reliable (lol), why are they so determined to “do something”. If they are really correct, given enough time, the “problem” will take care of itself, right? Gun ownership will go the way of the buggy whip, if they aren’t fudging the data.
I have, Had, a JR carbine in 45acp. I can’t say a good thing about the pile of junk. Its has got to be the biggest joke for a carbine. I shipped back to JR over three times. I would get it back, go and try it again. It would jam. I was told that I didn’t clean it good I ask did you clean it? I got a :”yes” back. I ask then why did it jam on the 3rd shot, after you did the cleaning. I didn’t get back a .good answer.
Use a “cut shell”. Using a knife, score the shotgun shell slightly less than halfway up and slightly overlap the score (cut) by maybe 4mm. Be sure to do it below the plastic pusher in the shell. This will keep smaller shot closer together at short to mid ranges. Google “cut shotgun shell” for a better idea of what I am trying to convey here.