Quote of the Day: The Johnny Appleseed of Ghost Guns

“I feel confident that there are at least 20,000 AR-15’s out there that wouldn’t be out there without this machine and there’s not strings on them. You don’t know where they are.” – Cody Wilson in DIY rifles are untraceable and completely legal [via keyetv.com]


  1. avatar Mr.Savage says:

    yea, so?

  2. avatar Bob Jones says:

    If the parts or information are obtained online, rest assured that the government has already “registered” the buyers.

    1. avatar NorincoJay says:

      Even so there is still no way to link an individual gun to any owner. The government could know you bought parts online to build one. But that’s it. They don’t know which one you built.

    2. avatar Boba Fett says:

      Not if you have a VPN.

      1. avatar TexTed says:

        If it was shipped to their house, they know about you — VPN or not.
        If it was paid by credit card, they know about you — VPN or not.

        They may not know you’re browsing, but they do know if information was transmitted from a dealer to your VPN — that direction’s unencrypted. It’s not encrypted until it hits the VPN.

        If you shopped on TOR and paid in bitcoin and had it shipped to some sort of anonymous address, then maybe you’d have a case to make. But short of that — they know about anything you’ve bought.

        1. avatar Boba Fett says:

          Your mom’s encrypted.

        2. avatar Sambo82 says:

          They may know who has the machine, they may trace the sharing of CAD files unless some sort of encryption is used, which for many it probably is. Outside of that, they have no idea. How many lowers were printed? An individual could print an unlimited number locally, just usb cable between their computer and printer, and that’s Wilson’s point. I just bought a lower parts kit for cash over the counter a few weeks ago. I could also buy an unlimited number of AR parts for cash from any number of places in my small town. There is no way they could know who has what printed ARs.

          The fed.gov isn’t omnipotent. You don’t digitize your information then they don’t have it.

      2. avatar jimbob says:

        VPN … OTFLMAO. The NSA spends over 100 billion per year building new and maintaining existing supercomputers, you can bet every hop for TOR has been compromised and all traffic do you seriously think that VPN offers you any security beyond encrypting your data from your ISP.

    3. avatar Fallschirmjäger says:

      Attention, Attention, Your attention, Please!
      Mr Muhummar Al-Shamshoon of 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield, IL has just purchased a bolt carrier for an AR rifle and an operators manual for a M1903 Springfield rifle. Please ensure that his name and address are immediately, I say again, Immediately added to the Governments List of Terrorists, Gun Owners, and Really, Really Bad Boys (aka the GLoTGORRBB).

  3. avatar The Duke says:

    Isn’t that the way firearms should be?

    The second says “shall not be infringed,” that means no asking the government permission, no tracking or monitoring, no limits period

    These rifles (and handguns) are the only products that are even close to the true to the spirit of the second amendment

    Oh and quit trying to look like a BA, it doesn’t suit you

    1. avatar Paul B says:

      Just out of curiosity…did you read the article? Cody Wilson is without a doubt on the side of firearms freedom. His quote, when presented in context is clearly a celebration of this new reality…not a condemnation of it.

      1. avatar The Duke says:

        Sorry I wasn’t very clear I am not remarking against his comments specifically just stating my beliefs

        1. avatar Paul B says:

          Right on. I apologize for being so curt.

  4. avatar DaveL says:

    I don’t get what the big deal is with “untraceable” guns. Every gun is effectively untraceable once it’s been stolen and found its way into the criminal underworld. Even when they’re not untraceable, such teaching rarely has any value in solving crimes. Even straw purchases are rarely prosecuted, despite the clarity of the traceable trail.

    1. avatar The Duke says:

      The guns are untraceable once they leave the store. The buyer can just rent a motel room in another city and stay there until committing their crime.

      Traceable guns are a fantasy and an excuse to attempt to create a list of concerned entities should a rebellion arise

    2. avatar FedUp says:

      Who cares about tracing guns to criminals?

      We can trace them to the first legal consumer, and he’s got more to lose than the criminal does, so it’s a lot more fun to f*** him up than it is to try to find the criminal.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        “Who cares about tracing guns to criminals?”
        Evidently, the people who want your continued payment of money to them do. Read: Elected people.
        Once these people have the accused and a gun in hand, they see a need to continue to show us, the taxpayers, that they are “doing something” to prevent future crimes, by connecting the gun to some method of obtaining said gun, so they can somehow (read: Gun Control) stop that particular method of obtaining a gun.
        Even if the gun was stolen, they will attempt to blame the victim of that theft, saying the gun should have been better and more safely stored (unless, of course, the gun was one of the thousands stolen annually from government employees), requiring new laws telling us how we must store our guns.
        That’s who cares.

  5. avatar NorincoJay says:

    I looked for crimes committed with “ghost guns” several months or so ago after a Lester Holt propaganda clip about these “ghosts.” I found literally less than five. I wasn’t looking for years or time frame there has literally been less than five. At least online that they know have been “ghosts.” I can remember three. One was a murder suicide, someone built one and sold it to an undercover cop and I think the other was owned by a felon.

  6. avatar Craig says:

    This is my go-to quote when someone brings up untraceable guns;

    “But, when a “homemade firearm is found at a crime scene, it means investigators are virtually left with a dead end,” said Mary Harmon Salter with the ATF.
    So what happens when a person is murdered with a 2×4? Oh, the investigators need to find means, motive, and opportunity. Poor investigators have to do their jobs.
    I wonder what the statistics are on how often the gun left at a crime scene is actually traced to the person who committed the crime. I’m guessing it has to be vanishingly close to zero.
    If it was as useful as claimed you would never hear the end of the “success stories”, which you don’t tells you and me everything we need to know.”

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      Only a complete moron would leave a weapon that could be traced back to himself at a crime scene. You might as well drop your wallet with your driver’s license. There are people of such magnitude of stupidity but their criminal careers are usually very short lived.

      1. avatar Jeff K says:

        Like the guy that dropped his receipt from the scrap yard at the construction site he went back to steal more stuff.

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Heard of one where a bank robber wrote his note on a deposit slip from his own check book and another where the teller told him he’d have to show his ID before they could give him the money, so he did.

        2. avatar KBonLI says:

          I remember seeing a picture of a bumper with attached license plate left at the scene of an ATM heist.

      2. avatar Ben says:

        In the vast majority of cases where a gun is left at the crime scene, the perp is left at the crime scene, also. Not a lot of tracing to do, except for going back to the first lawful owner to try to prosecute him, also… Normally, if the gun is found, the perp isn’t far from it, whether dead or alive.

      3. avatar Button Gwinnet says:

        Take the canoli.

  7. avatar Chadwick says:

    Build your own ak from a pile of parts that were decommissioned in a former com block country and a piece of sheet metal and then talk to me about untraceable. It isn’t a scary thing, it’s a very American thing. I guess pajama boys are gonna be pajama boys.

    1. avatar barmbwt says:

      “Having traced the serial numbers, we believe the real killer is 1983 Yugoslavia; sadly, they no longer exist.”

  8. avatar Dan l says:

    How many murders are solved because the killer leaves the gun at the scene?

    This guy is awesome, what he really does well is getting antis all scared about a non issue. With 300 million plus guns in circulation, your scared that someone will make a new one without numbers, oh god no, someone think of the children !

  9. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:


    1. avatar Geoff says:

      Make that 20,004.

  10. avatar J says:

    That’s a 5.7 AR with a “ghost” magazine

    1. avatar bobinmi says:

      it’s a shell catcher.

      1. avatar Fallschirmjäger says:

        The better question is…”Why is the magazine upside down and just resting on the receiver?”

  11. avatar Mark says:

    Why not substitute the term “ghost guns” to “Red herring guns” in these circles?

  12. avatar Mad Max says:

    It would be unlikely for a ghost gun to be used for a typical crime because the average bad guy isn’t smart enough to use that level of technology.

    Terrorists and the Government would be more likely to use ghost guns to commit crimes.

    The rest of us are just trying to stick it to the man (which is a good thing under these circumstances).

  13. avatar YZAS says:

    It’s pretty much irrelevant to me. Who’s to say I didn’t just private sale that rifle years ago? Besides, if they ever really come looking for our rifles (ie – confiscation), we have a much bigger issue on our hands the way i see it. And if they ever try to ‘force’ us to register our rifles, well… regardless of whether it’s a ‘ghost’ or not, you still have the same decision to make.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      The problem with failing to register is that you end up with a rifle where you run the risk of being confiscated and you arrested if you take it shooting in your state of residence.

      1. avatar Jeff K says:

        Granted, not easy, but GOOD REASON TO MOVE. I did.

  14. avatar Geoff says:

    “People have been doing for years but Wilson’s machine makes it easier than ever. There is no serial number, no registration, no background check and it’s perfectly legal.”
    Except in Kommiefornistan.
    Every year they make more guns illegal to own.
    Now you have to ask the State DoJ for a serial number for your 80% lower before you make it a rifle.

    1. avatar Ben says:

      Only if they know. Or you tell them. Or they demand to do an unconstitutional search… If there is no victim (and of course, if you never use it where an untrusted person might see it up close), where’s the [real] crime? I know… kommiefornia…

      In the end, only law abiding people with jump through the hoops to satisfy the communists, while the criminals will continue to do what they always do. It’ll never change, really.

  15. avatar Alan says:

    In my opinion, we should stop calling these “ghost guns”. This is a term coined by the antis—specifically state senator Kevin De Leon of California—to strike fear in uninformed people.

    This is a homemade firearm.

    1. avatar Smitty says:

      Thank you Alan. We have to stop using the antis language. A homemade gun is legal as long as is not made for sale.


      Does an individual need a license to make a firearm for personal use?

      No, a license is not required to make a firearm solely for personal use. However, a license is required to manufacture firearms for sale or distribution. The law prohibits a person from assembling a non–sporting semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts, as well as firearms that cannot be detected by metal detectors or x–ray machines. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and advance approval by ATF.

      [18 U.S.C. 922(o), (p) and (r); 26 U.S.C. 5822; 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

  16. avatar pcb_duffer says:

    [snip] If the parts or information are obtained online, rest assured that the government has already “registered” the buyers. [snip]

    All the more reason to spend actual cash money at your local gun shop. As to crime scene guns, that’s the same level of idiot who posts the photos he took at the crime scene on Facebook, or as another poster says leaves their wallet, parking tickets, etc. laying around. And if, God forbid, I was involved in a less than completely justifiable shooting, the first thing I’d do is leave the area and do a quick barrel change.

  17. avatar Killjoy says:

    When I put “none” in the serial number section of California new assault wepons Web site. I must have broke it?

  18. avatar maxi says:

    Well, no shit, and that’s kinda the point of a militia able to bring down a corrupt or tyrannical government. Have a gun and don’t let the feds know that.

  19. avatar Steve says:

    I suppose no one seems to realize that almost any firearm can be made “untraceable” by removing the serial number — hardly a new problem.

  20. avatar Lhstr says:

    Do you mean my 45’s, 9mm’s, 40’s, and a/r’s are controlled by the govn’t. Crap and I went into the weed’s to make these, nothing works out for us working men and woman. Just kidding, but I did make a bunch of fishing poles they know nothing about. Be safe out there.

  21. Assuming that you live in a free state, finding out who owns what gun is only possible as part of a criminal investigation in which a firearm is recovered. Any FFL can tell you the during a NICS check, no firearms information is transmitted. They do not know if you bought one gun, ten guns or changed you mind and didn’t buy any. Furthermore, cleared checks are purged within 72 hours. Could the FBI be breaking the law and keeping the data? It’s possible, but I think we would have found out by now. Remember “Fast and Furious”? We found out because two ATF agents were fed up with illegal actions by the ATF.

    So, where is the firearms specific information kept? It’s only kept at the FFLs. There is no federal database of firearms.

    But couldn’t the ATF show up and copy all the info? Sure – but they likely wouldn’t get it. Some agents tried to copy the bound books of Anchorage FFLs. The FFLs simply told them NO WAY. The word got out and ATF quickly backtracked. It’s illegal for them to copy those records. If the come after the records nationwide, there could be a lot of unfortunate fires……

    If we lose and nationwide registration is required, or if they just ignore the law, it’s going to be very hard to not be identified as a gun owner. “But I built my own gun, the feds don’t know about it.” You’re right, they don’t. However, unless you were very careful in how you bought your components, they could certainly find out. Of course, if you have a CCW or a C&R license, the feds already know about you.

    If building your own gun is something you want to do, by all means go for it. But should they ever come for our guns, I think it will make little difference. We will all have much bigger fish to fry………

  22. avatar Lance Manion says:

    I want to see a study done examining how many times the government was able to “trace” a gun using it’s method of backtracking from the recovered “crime gun” to the manufacturer to the distributor to the FFL to the 4473 to the original buyer AND said “trace” resulted in the crime being solved (as in a successful prosecution). I also want to know how often the “trace” is the key factor in identifying the criminal who used the gun (where there is no other evidence that would have ID’d the criminal anyway such as fingerprints, DNA, video, witnesses, etc.) and would have solved the crime (again, meaning a successful prosecution) without the trace. My guess is that the number of such cases is infinitesimally small, if not zero. It appears to me that the true motive for “tracing” guns is not to identify the shooter, but to identify the dealer who sold the “crime gun” so that the dealer can be harassed and sued.

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