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“Just because I get a call or I see somebody walking down the street with a properly holstered weapon is not something to get overly upset about. I typically use an approach as a casual and common conversation as if I was another person in society. I’d say ‘I see your carrying. Can I ask you a couple questions?’ Just the average citizen walking around? I got to let them go.” – Michigan State Trooper Martin Miller, owner of J&R Guns in Gun debate puts people on both sides of the fence [at]

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    • Or ….
      “Sorry, wut?”
      “I said, can I ask you a couple of questions?
      “You just did.”

      • “Sorry, wut?”
        “I said, can I ask you a couple of questions?
        “You just did.”

        “STOP RESISTING!” *Bang, bang, bang*


    • First, let me ask you a couple of questions officer:
      “Am I being detained?
      “I am I free to go?”

  1. No, you may not. Your “casual and common conversation” approach is nothing more than the camel trying to stick its nose under the tent. You will and should be politely rebuffed, since your uniform, badge, and position is one that puts your subject of conversation in legal peril. The entire quote is a lie; “Just the average citizen walking around?” is not the default position being taken, as if it was there’d be no reason to start verbally sniffing.

    • If one is just the average citizen walking around, he wouldn’t walk up to them and say “Can I ask you a couple of questions?” So… obviously, he’s not treating them as the average citizen walking around.

  2. Kind of him to try to act as if he was another person in society…no need to bow down and grovel to our superiors.

    I’m sure that’s not how he meant his statement, but…EXPLETIVE DELETED off

    • It’s good that he calmly approaches calls about OCers like this. It’s pretty expletively wrong that he approaches OCers when he just sees them.

  3. “Upon the advice of counsel, I elect to invoke my right against self-incrimination. Thank you and may Allah rain his blessing down upon your family. By the way, where is the nearest military base?”

    That will get a reaction.

    • No thanks, I would prefer not to take an unscheduled vacation in Cuba where I have no rights. Besides Surf boarding and water boarding are two different things, niether interesting to me.

      • But they both end with you getting a mouthfull of water and almost drowning? They can’t be that far off can they?

        • Surfers can get laid with a cute gal-guy.

          GitMo’ers have no choice who they get in the cellblock…

    • Common misconception: the 5th has nothing to do with search and seizure, only giving evidence during a trial. You cannot plead the 5th during a police stop justified by probable cause or reasonable suspicion.. Case law is very clear on that.

      But, open carrying where legal provides neither probable cause nor reasonable suspicion or justify a police stop and interrogation. In California, there is a section of the penal code that allows any LEO to verify the unloaded condition of any firearm so they had a legal right to stop you, question you, and check your firearm. I say had, because CA outlawed unlocked unloaded open carry a few years back. It was pointless any as you could have one in the chamber nor a loaded magazine in the magazine well either. And people say C A isn;t a lost cause. Don’t make me laugh: while Texas got back loaded open carry, CA NEVER will.

      • Errmmm. No. I think you missed some of the Fifth Amendment. One absolutely can refuse to talk to the police. The amendment absolutely protects a person from being compelled to incriminate oneself…not just in a courtroom.

  4. If I see a person with a properly holstered hand gun…. Another example of a law enforcement officer not knowing the law. I can open carry an AR15 or an Elephant gun and I am still legal as long as I am not pointing or threatening people with it.

  5. Why ask anything? An evil intentioned person is going to lie and they would have their weapon hidden anyway.

    • He may be asking because of a called in complaint and he may be required to respond to that in his area. Seems that it would be more efficient for the person taking the call to screen the caller at the time they called in though. Sample Conversation: Caller “Someone is carrying a gun in my area”. Police Dispatch: “It is legal for them to carry their weapon openly unless they are a felon or otherwise prohibited”. Caller: “Can you have someone check them out?” PD: “No, sorry. We cannot do that legally unless they are threatening someone or doing something illegal”. Caller: “But I feel threatened when I see them with their gun”. PD: “Sorry, perhaps you should stop looking at them and read up on the 2nd Amendment and your local ordinances. If they were actually going to do something illegal they probably would not be carrying their weapon where you could see it.”

      • Why do people think that police are required to respond to MWAG calls? They’re not.

        Dispatcher: “It is lawful to carry a firearm. Call us back if he does something unlawful.” *click*

        • Simple, because PSAs like “See something, say something” and the constant drum beat of “call the police” even by the police have conditioned many who are scared of their own shadow to call at the slightest thing that makes them scared. They have been conditioned to call government for every problem or concern instead of dealing with it themselves or making looking at the situation and observing that it is not a big deal.

          Fear and replaced common sense and logic and Progressives love that fact because it makes people dependent on government.

          People have been conditioned to believe that the next terrorist, phyco, crazy murdered, rapist just around the corner or living next door. they more than likely are not. But this is what we have done to make everyone into busy body fearful wimps.

        • When the illegal thing someone does next is shoot up a school or theatre or mall, there will be about fifty 911 calls reporting exactly that. Guess which one will be broadcast in an endless loop on the news channels?

          Hint: it won’t be any of the ones where the dispatcher comes off looking like the competent, compassionate civil servant.

          The fact is that the police and 911 dispatchers get paid the same no matter how much and how many OCers get hassled. The one time they drop the ball and the future spree shooter slips by them, then they’re the screw-ups. “It’s for my career! Won’t somebody *please* think of my career!” Expect continued calls, dispatches, and investigatory stops for the foreseeable future.

        • “The fact is that the police and 911 dispatchers get paid the same no matter how much and how many OCers get hassled.”

          Not here in Florida.

  6. Guessing, not a priory to keep 911 response operators updated on new gun laws. MWAG calls may be just the probable cause LE needs to stop a legally carrying citizen.

    Anybody know if the Open Carry legislation provides for “grandfathering” in current CHL holders until renewal class, for BS requirement for Open Carry training?

  7. 1.) Police responds to a call.
    2.) Police sees a person open carrying a firearm in the legal manner.
    3.) Police doesn’t bother the person, and reports that he saw a person within their legal rights

    • This ^^^
      the LEO is covered (CYA) because they responded.
      Per the Military OODA:
      They Observed , Oriented the observations to the situation and detected nothing unlawful in the carriers actions, Decided no action was warranted (no reasonable suspicion or probably cause), so took no Action.
      The caller is satisfied, the LEO and his command is satisfied, and so is the carrier.
      That’s how a free citizen should be treated by his public servants.

  8. It’s called a pass off. You can get a similar response using a video camera on a sidewalk across the street from a school. Parent calls school, school calls police, police respond, they say you shouldn’t do it, then to relay your filling an after action report for a street closure. Blue crew doesn’t know what to say or do. They move on.

    How we fix this is structured on mass OC in a 10 square mile area. 10-30 OC lawful carriers fan out. Every one approached by police repeated for 20-30 days in different parts of the area. Make sure they file a report and then follow up asking for a copy. Soon the Chief will declare to much time is expended on OC’s and call the blue crew off.

  9. “Was thinking of buying a gun and becoming a crack dealer. Not like a mean crack dealer, but like… like a nice one. Kinda friendly like, “hey, what’s up guys? Want some crack?”

    Maybe you could pantomine pulling to the side of the road, rolling down the window, and turning off the engine too.

  10. I get why he does it: if someone carrying openly is reported and there is no response, there’ll be hell to pay if that person walks into a mall and starts shooting. But that’s the price of freedom. Cue Ben Franklin’s quote regarding liberty and security.

  11. The police officer is describing a consensual encounter. By definition, the person contacted is free to leave at any time. Police are required to respond to calls, and can face liability for not responding. It’s one of many imperfect things in the world. It sounds like this trooper at least has a decent attitude about it.

    • To me, it doesn’t make sense to agitate the police if they ask you a couple of questions, in a civil way. If you tell the cop your not going to tell him your name, or show him any I.D., just because the constitution says you don’t have to, then what kind of thoughts are you going to leave this officer with. Do you think you are going to improve public relations between the police department and the public?
      A little bit of cooperation can go a long way to improve the open carrier’s image. If it’s really too much trouble for you to show the officer a little respect, then get a CCW permit, and carry concealed!

      • And if you happen to say something that fits what he’s looking for, it may be more questions until they can fit you into a mold of doing something that you didn’t do. It doesn’t matter to them if they waste your minutes, hours, days, or weeks. They’re still working, getting paid, while you might languish somewhere not getting paid. Be careful what you tell cops. They’re usually looking for something, it’s not in your favor, and they won’t tell you what they’re looking for. They may even lie to you to get you to say something, but if you slip up and tell them an untruth, you’re done. I’d just rather not talk to them at all.

        • Ben beat me to the punch; under current law, ANY interaction with a cop is a defensive position. They can lie to you, waste your time, whatever; but anything the OCer does or says can be used against them in a court of law.

          Until the law puts cops back on a level playing field with those they were sworn to ‘serve and protect’, being friendly and helpful is a huge personal risk that has only chance at the ill-defined goal of ‘improving public relations’. If the cop is asking you questions for no reason, he was a dick first.

      • “Improve public relations” between the cops and the citizenry?

        They’ve been doing that here in New Mexico by not approaching me to ask questions, polite or otherwise, about my OC’ing for the last eight years.

        They have developed, by respecting the fact I have been practicing a constitutional right , my respect.

        If a cop WAS to approach me to question me about my OC’ing? I would simply say that unless he or she was arresting or detaining me for breaking some law, I would be on my way.

        I have no need to “improve public relations” between cops and the public when the cop is the one violating my rights. And if they are stopping me when I’m breaking no law, they are the ones in the wrong, not me.

      • Frankly, I don’t see why I shouldn’t respond: “Do you want to see my carry permit?” That ought to end the conversation.

        The cop might want to engage in a little more conversation about the whether or sports or some nonsense just to see whether I’m engaging in a rational manner or frothing at the mouth. That’s fine, provided it takes less than a minute or so.

        If the cop starts asking questions along lines that challenge my right to carry; that’s where I’d become annoyed.

      • What part of NEVER TALK TO POLICE don’t you understand?
        Anything you say can and will be used against you even mis-remembered against you.
        The LEO is not there to chat and be your friend. They are on the job.
        Be polite but minimize saying anything.

  12. I’ve been approached OCing in Las Vegas (I also have a concealed carry license there). The cop who spoke to me was nice (the second one was giving me the hairy eyeball), I was nice and the meeting ended nicely. It took about sixty seconds of my precious time.

    Yes, I could have told the cops to fvck off. Yes, I’m a retired lawyer, I’m perfectly capable of legally defending myself and I would not have been terribly unhappy to be arrested and eventually pocket a nice settlement.

    But maybe — maybe — because we were nice to each other, the same cops will be just as respectful to the next OCer they meet.

    And BTW, the phrase “Michigan State Trooper Martin Miller, owner of J&R Guns” is incorrect. Chris Sanford II is the owner of J&R Guns, but the original Fox article is so poorly written that I can understand the confusion.

    • That’s what I’m talking about Ralph. A minute of respectful conversation might save you a bunch down the line.
      What if you get stopped for speeding some night, and you’ve had 3 or 4 drinks, still capable of operating a motor vehicle, but if your tested, the level might be just a smidgen over .08. The cop that stopped you is not sure whether or not he will give you a ticket or not, It’s at the end of his shift and he’s in a hurry to get home. Then, he realizes that your the same jerk that told him, in so many words, to Fvck off!”, a few weeks ago!
      Guess where your probably going to spend the night?

  13. He just sound like an azzwhole to me…”respect my authoritah peasant…”

  14. “Improve public relations” relations between the cops and the citezenry?

    They’ve been doing that here in New Mexico by not approaching me to ask questions, polite or otherwise, about my OC’ing for the last eight years.

    They have developed, by repecting the fact I have been practicing a constitutional right , my respect.

    If a cop WAS to approach me to question me about my OC’ing? I would simply say that unless he or she was arresting or detaining me for breaking some law, I would be on my way.

    I have no need to “improve public relations” between cops and the public when the cop is the one violating my rights. And if they are stopping me me I’m breaking no law, they are the ones in the wrong, not me.

  15. Two things that can piss off a police officer – regardless if the office good or bad – is lying to them and/or responding with an attitude. Be nice, and tell them why you are there, i.e., “I am here to practice my legal

    • Wow, the web site is acting weird. To complete my sentence..

      …”I am here to practice my constitutionally protected right to open carry a firearm.”, etc.

  16. If you are open carrying, you are doing it to make a political statement. While I support the right to make this statement and the right to open carry, the idea that open carriers “want to be left alone ” is absurd. They might as well have t shirts that say “please ask me about my gun”. So, given that it is for attention and for a cause, you would think that they wouldn’t mind being a good representative to the LE community. They should use the interaction to show that armed folks are normal folks, and not just folks spoiling for a fight.

    • Wrong. I OC because I do not have a permit to CC and will not as long as Virginia continues to charge for one. That’s $25 I can keep in my pocket.

  17. Can I ask you a couple questions?

    (smiling) No, I am not single, and no, you can’t have my number. Now please excuse me, I have things to do.

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