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“Throughout this litigation, the city has offered a dizzying array of explanations about what the guidelines allow and don’t allow. It is literally impossible for a person of ordinary intelligence to determine with any degree of assurance whether a particular advertisement will be accepted or rejected.” – Goldwater Institute brief, Ban on ‘Guns Save Lives’ bus-stop ad is back in court [at]

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  1. I don’t know. The rules seem reasonable and applied fairly. Now if they had rejected this new one (with the website) prior to this going to court, I think you’d have a case.

    On the other hand, since it was approved and then torn down, he should be reimbursed for having to reprint the ads. and that might be what this is about.

  2. I have never been a fan of the phrase “Guns Save Lives.” It is a clear contradiction to the idea that guns, (inanimate objects) don’t kill people, rather people kill people. Equally, I would argue that guns (again, inanimate objects) don’t save lives. Responsible, law abiding citizens exercising their constitutional right to keep and bear arms, thus affording them the opportunity to defend themselves and others when the time comes is what saves lives.

    • I’m pretty sure the phrase is being used in direct opposition to the guns kill tag line. The “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” line falls on deaf ears and is usually mocked.

      • I completely agree that “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” falls on deaf ears. However, I don’t see “Guns Save Lives” as any more effective.

        • Fewer syllables to ignore. If you make any more simpleminded you’ll be dropping random letters (like your typical Twit Tweet).

          Come to think of it…

        • This may be a simple question of semantics and how the phrase is interpreted. (Outside of the actual legal issue being discussed.)

          Since guns save lives by potentially taking a life the message is a little obscure for the average low-information voter and seems to be a contradiction. IMO, the phrase should be modified to “Guns Also Save Lives”. This seems exponentially more descriptive of what they are trying to communicate.

    • That’s a fair point, I suppose. The issue is whether this group has the right not to be discriminated against based on their point of view. They want to encourage these sorts of discussions, but the city is violating their rights.

      So much for the “Arizona is a paragon of firearms freedom” myth.

      • So much for the “Arizona is a paragon of firearms freedom” myth.

        The city has actually made some valid points for the ban. So dont worry Texas still holds the title for the myth and will for the foreseeable future, especially when the state goes purple or blue in a few years.

    • Yeah, but “Guns Save Lives” looks better on a poster than the explanation you’d prefer.

      BTW, I agree your statement is more accurate…

      • I wasn’t advocating for my explanation to appear on an advertisement. I wholeheartedly agree that “Guns Save Lives” is much more eye catching. However, principles necessitate the relegation of the phrase to advertising one-liners and the like. It should not be used as a core argument. Ultimately it is the responsibility of the citizenry that saves lives and those citizens should be entrusted with the tools to best defend life, i.e. guns.

    • Also, the gun itself can easily be what makes the difference between life and death for a potential victim. When fighting back with a melee weapon won’t work a gun might.

      Certainly a gun does not make the decision to murder but can be the sole reason a defense was successful.

  3. Local governments are generally not the abode of scholarly jurists. They will try to prohibit anything the head Bozo or his AlderBozos, or Committee of SelectBozos deem unpleasant, vaguely risky, unattractive, or politically incorrect in any way, regardless of the legislative or legal aspects of the issue. If you expect otherwise….Vote for me! I’ll fix EVERYTHING, you betcha’!

        • “First, we kill all the lawyers.”

          Great idea. I suggest you mention that to your attorney the next time you get into legal trouble. I’m sure he’ll find it as amusing as I did.

          Or, the next time you get into legal trouble, you can call a plumber instead of a lawyer. Then you can share your joke on your way to prison to get your pipes reamed.

        • To the folks complaining about this comment above: it’s a quote, I believe, from Shakespeare, and commonly used as a humorous comment on the lunacy of the legal world, in general. Get a sense of humor, and read a book once in a while. Geez!

        • Shakespeare’s exact line ”The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers,” was stated by Dick the Butcher in ”Henry VI,” Part II, act IV, Scene II, Line 73. Dick the Butcher was a follower of the rebel Jack Cade, who thought that if he disturbed law and order, he could become king. Shakespeare meant it as a compliment to attorneys and judges who instill justice in society.

    • Hey, wait a minute! I’m running for president, and I already have a website! Should we organize a primary for the Radical Libertarian Loon party? I’ll fire the whole damn federal bureaucracy, and people will solve everything!

      And I have a real name. Who’s going to write in “Leadbelly?” 😉

      • The real Leadbelly (Huddie Ledbetter, the king of the twelve string guitar) was quite a guy. He wore a scar around his throat from ear to ear where a sore loser in a craps game tried to decapitate him. He prevailed in that fight but was sentenced to life in Angola prison camp for murder. He later wrote a song to the governor that won him a pardon! Even better, he pulled off the same feat years later after another lethal contretemps in Texas sent him to Sugarland prison farm. He was the composer of “Goodnight Irene”, “The Midnight Special”, “Kisses Sweeter Than Wine”, and scores of other songs that have become immortal standards. He favored the Colt Police Positive as his street piece. He died in New York of Lou Gehrig’s disease the day before I was born in 1948.

  4. Hrm. I’ll take a pic of the actual ad, because there are still quite a large number of them up here in Phoenix.


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