“A 29-year-old man suspected of shooting a woman inside a Renton theater Thursday night told detectives he brought the gun to the movie fearing a mass shooting,” news3lv.com reports. “About 15 minutes into the movie, a gun went off and a 40-year-old Michelle Mallari had been shot through the back of her chair.” Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day and Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge News Story of the Day. More to the point, theoretically speaking, I wouldn’t watch a movie without carrying a firearm, no matter what the theater’s policy. If I was a teacher, I’d carry in school. Theoretically, would you carry in places where guns were banned? [NOTE: TTAG does not share email or IP addresses with any third party.]
Home Irresponsible Gun Owner... Question of the Day: Would You Carry Where It’s Not Legal?
No comment. 🙂
This is a good question.
I think more importantly it depends.
Really it is based on state law. In many cases the only charge you could get is trespassing. So if you have a valid CCW, and carry in a target free zone, errr gun free zone, the charges if any would be negligible. This is also assuming you were asked to leave and didn’t once your GAT was found out.
Now having said that here is another question. Would you carry even though you don’t have the papers?
In some states like New Jersey they basically throw the book at you. Places like California, it is a misdemeanor and more like a bad parking ticket.
At what point do you put yourself at risk by breaking the law to exercise your rights?
Wait, in Cali carrying without a permit is a parking ticket? I’m going to need to see something backing that up. I cannot imagine in a million years you not going to prison for getting caught while strapped up by a LA cop.
Well, if you happened to be pulled by a certain Brea, PD officer…
If you have no prior criminal convictions and the gun is registered it’s basically a misdemeanor in CA. I got busted for carrying concealed without a permit and the cop literally let me walk. gun and all. We could see my house from where he stopped me.
He was a CA cop, but not LA.
It’s not a felony. It’s an act of love and commitment to your family.
I have carried concealed in that same theater in Renton. (Didn’t shoot anybody.) At that time the No Guns signs did not carry the force of law.
About 20+ years ago I was detained in Oceanside, CA, for concealed carry and my pistol confiscated, I was not arrested or ticketed and the city attorney declined to press any charges, so after 30 days I returned and my pistol was returned to me, minus the 11 rounds of Black Talon ammo.
Not sure I could count on either result in those localities today.
Of course not.
Also, I only open carry. I refuse to conceal carry. I don’t even own any handguns small enough to conceal comfortably and properly.
Good for you, cowboy.
Wow, the logic fail in that idiotic article is astounding. I had HOPED that that level of dumb was limited to the anti’s, but I guess that hope has been dashed.
So, basically, the article is saying the passage of Legal, Permitted Open Carry in TX is leading to an increase in 30.06 (no CONCEALED carry) signs at TX businesses.
While that assertion may be partially true, how is it that anti-OC types talk out both sides of your mouths? Contradict themselves, one might say.
(1) Claim last year when OC law passed, the ‘official’ word was that it passed despite the OC advocates, not because of them,
(2) OC advocates “got OC passed in TX” and that’s leading to more CC denying businesses.
The anti-OC bias is a form of Fudd-ism. Good job letting and HELPING the anti-gunners fragment law abiding gun owners.
Folks that mouth off anti-OC horse sh1t make me just as sick as Shannon Watts does. Anti-OC crap is nothing but emotional histrionics and “Do it MY WAY or you are not as good as MEEEEEEE!”
What we basically have is that TX took a step to have LESS RESTRICTIVE government. Rather than celebrating a step toward more personal liberty, all the anti-OC panty-pissers can see is the boogers on their own nose and complain someone else put them there.
If I was a betting man, I’d say old Hawkeye puts on the “I only open carry” facade because he absolutely does conceal carry, often into places where it’s not allowed.
But I’d only say that if I was a betting man.
And I’m not alone here in Alabama, I see a lot of fellow OC’ers. Besides, I really can’t think of any privately-owned establishments in my county that have a no-guns policy posted. Though there are probably a few business owners around here who are anti-gun, they are certainly aware of how much business they would lose by posting a GFZ sign.
I did not have sexual relations with that woman
But what about that other woman? 🙂
Well that depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is.
Well, by definition, relations have to be consensual… Given slick Willie’s history, me thinks he was telling the “truth”…
“I did not have sex with that woman.”
“I only carry concealed, so OC laws don’t apply to me. Besides, I can’t read and what the heck does a circle with a slash across a handgun stop? Criminals or others with criminal intent?”
“Quote me as saying I was misquoted.” ~Groucho Marx
Snub nose .357 every day while driving a commercial vehicle in Chicago for years.
Yeah, I said it.
There are so many places that do not ban gun owners, why go to places that do? Doesn’t spending money in places where the company doesn’t want you provide them with more money to be insulting and free of worry of lost revenue?
I don’t understand why anyone would go to a no gun place for other than emergency medical care.
My local mall has a “no weapons” sticker on a door at only one entrance. I just use any of the other entrances.
Wish there was a thumbs up sign for this comment.
I work in one. It’s state law. If I avoid it, I lose my job. If I carried at work and got found out, I’d lose my job *and* my license to carry.
But otherwise, yes, I avoid such places when possible.
And like Chip said below, while I do my best to obey the law (even when it’s stupid), I don’t give a flying monkey fart about someone else’s policy; their preferences are worth infinitely less than my right to defend myself and my family as I see fit.
Guess I didn’t think about the question in terms of a job. You have a good point. But for any other reason it seems odd to give them money.
Please don’t work hard enough to provide your employer with much in the way of benefits from keeping you. Instead, do your best to bleed the beast.
Stuki, that is dishonest. He made a good faith agreement to provide labor in return for money. To provide less than your full work makes you no better than a free loader on the state. If carrying at work means that much, then you can quit.
Either give your all, or don’t bother showing up.
Here’s to hoping that you never have to step foot in a post office. Or school to pick up/drop off your children. Or virtually any government building.
Yes, you can probably go through life pretty happily while not darkening the door of a private business that doesn’t respect your rights. However avoiding contact with the government and all it’s entities is quite the task these days.
Also, some of us have family that live behind enemy lines. Should we never visit them, break the law, or be disarmed at the state line. Things are never as simple as black and white. Most of us live in constant shades of gray.
Guess I am a bit privileged. No family alive. No friends (acquaintances, maybe). No government involvement (all mail done through a non-postal location) requiring me to be at a building. No job at a place with gun prohibitions. But I was taking the question to be only about going to commercial businesses that don’t want guns around.
Some people, right here on this site, no less, would advise you to not visit your family, or insist that you insist that they move.
They are the same people, who, when someone talks about living in a less-free state, blithely spout off “move!” as though that were the easiest and financially savviest thing in the world to do.
Those people are idiots.
who here thinks life should be easy?
which is more important, finances or personal/family protection?
we all make choices; sometimes they are painful.
In Oregon at least you’re good to go at public schools, IF you have the permission slip (CHL). The post office is a gray area but technically (IAMNAL!) again you should be good to go with the CHL, it’s just nobody’s tested it in court yet.
Post offices are federal property. Already tried in a Colorado case, and failed. Don’t go to post offices and expect it’s legal. It’s not. Federal property is the same everywhere.
“Or school to pick up/drop off your children.”
Life is about choices. Sometimes, the choice is about priorities. There are numerous ways to solve this particular problem, which was the dude’s point.
Such as, but perhaps not limited to:
(1) Choose to live in a state that has legal protection for those bearing arms while picking up their children from school. They exist.
(2) Homeschool; that eliminates quite a few “others” making life decisions for you…when they are in school, what they learn in school, if you can be armed while with them at school, etc, etc.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. “IF I do x, I won’t get to have y!!” Yep. That’s part of being a grown-up.
Well I appreciate you educating me on life and how it’s full of choices….even with the tone of condescension about being a grown up. But I’m quite aware of how that works.
I already live in a fairly firearms friendly state. We are a shall issue state with open and concealed carry, and private business signs banning guns do not hold the weight of law. And it’s not illegal to carry in establishments that serve alcohol…it’s just illegal to be intoxicated while carrying. Is it perfect? Of course not. I can’t have suppressors, and there are some government controlled areas that a person can’t carry a firearm. While I don’t agree with some of those things, there are enough good things about where I am that I CHOOSE to stay and push for the rest. Rather than uproot my family in search of some gun owner Utopia that respects every aspect of the 2nd Amendment as it was intended.
And even if such a Utopia exists, that doesn’t change the question about visiting family that CHOOSE to live in a less free state. I suppose I should just cut all ties with them because they made a poor choice on where to live. I’m far too often amazed at how quickly others in the “gun community” turn on each other for the stupidest of things.
“tone of condescension”
I merely proposed solutions, with explanation, to the problem you presented. Nothing was aimed at you personally. Any inference of “tone” is yours alone.
While you personally may ‘get’ being a grown-up and having to make (sometimes hard) choices, not everyone does. Some folks live under the impression that they should get everything they want, how and when they want it.
My “how grown-ups” operate was aimed at them.
Got kids and send them to public school? That’s a choice that involves giving certain (rather important) freedoms away and abrogating certain responsibilities to the State. Since “public school” has been “normalized,” a lot of folks don’t see it as a choice.
But, it is a choice. A choice with consequences, such as “Your kid spends his day in a Gun Free Zone” and a few other big ones as well.
I guess I’ve been in and out of Post Offices about 100 times in the past 15 years or so, armed every time. The only way I believe I would ever be prosecuted is if I have to use my firearm to defend my life, in which case I’ll worry about that bridge if I live to see it. I have a firm plan to NEVER carry where it’s illegal, if there is an armed guard and a metal detector present, otherwise they are not serious.
I have always wanted to try to get out of jury duty by claiming I am being compelled to forfeit a right since I cannot carry in the court house and they make no provisions to store my gun for me. Haven’t been summoned since I got my permit though. *knocks on wood*
Some of us are college students. Some of us have to pick up children from school. Some of us have no choice but to ride on public transportation. All of those are “gun free” zones in my state.
The bad guys sure as shit will.
I carried concealed all day in a state-mandated gun-free educational zone once. Didn’t realize I was breaking the law until it was too late — it was either abandon the whole activity we’d gone there for or continue breaking the law. Shockingly, no one was hurt, and I haven’t somehow morphed into either a spree killer or a career criminal.
Would I do something like that again, on purpose? I’ll have to get back to you on that.
I do work in one of those magical gun-free zones that murderous psychos and jihadists (but I repeat myself) love so much, so I have considered it in theory. The odds of needing a gun are very, very, very low…but the consequences of not having one in time of need can be so high…
Signs on a door are just…signs on a door.
I have no qualms about violating mere policy, but I will not violate the law.
So, you have no problem violating another’s private property rights, but you blindly follow the edicts of a group of men of such low character and poor morals that they became legislators. Says a lot about you.
Yea, they don’t realize how unwise they are.
As I said above, the public pronouncements and political opinions of private property owners do not trump my right to defend self and family as I see fit. (And if something I do on their property disturbs them, I’ll respect their right to ask me to leave.)
Laws have consequences, and only a moron risks them lightly.
Another strong contender for the Pompous Dick Comment Of The Day Award, folks!
This ‘property rights’ malarky when speaking about businesses open to the public is just that… malarky. You have a natural, civil, and constitutional right to keep and bear arms the same as you have a natural, civil, and constitutional right to due process under the 14th amendment which has been extended to ensure you cannot be arrested as a person of color in a place of business that happens to be owned by a racist. If they find out that I am carrying a firearm and they do not wish to serve me, then tell me that I am no longer welcome there, they can ask me to leave politely but they cannot arrest me for carrying my firearm. The same as a no shoes no shirt policy. If i walk into a restaurant without shoes on, it is my right to do so and I cannot be arrested for such, however, I shouldn’t be shocked when an owner or manager informs me that this is not within their decorum or business model to have people with their feet exposed while serving other customers and politely ask me to leave.
A tool that I carry on my person has no impact whatsoever on another person’s private property rights.
Property rights extend only so far as to allow or disallow the presence of one’s person on said property. If asked by the property owner to leave, I would respect his property rights, and do so. But I will not disarm myself out of respect for property rights, because property rights do not extend to my own self-defense of my person.
Well said. I’ve had polite conversations with management at a few places while not carrying, mostly to let them know that “No Guns” signs [that carry the force of law] do not, in fact, make me feel safer or like their business is “family-friendly” or whatever they think they’re trying to promote. I figure they’ll never hear an opposing viewpoint if I just stick to never patronizing those places.
I would never violate a constitutional law.
How about this law; “Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in!”? She was talking about “If I could get 51 votes in the Senate … ” You would obey that law?
At some point, there comes a time when long-suffering, law-abiding people must make a stand against unjust governance and tyranny. The Declaration of Independence defined such a point in time. I pray we never see another; but should it come to pass, I am at peace with the decision I will make.
That time passed 150 years ago. By now, it’s pretty much too late. Our best shot for getting rid of the bastards now, likely comes from the outside.
No need/no such thing. We have the 2nd.
If it isn’t a felony then yes, will and do.
The Chicago “El” has the no guns signs posted, but I carry on there all the time. Actually I carry everywhere in the city simply ignoring those signs. After all, it is concealed.
Better to be judged by 12 , than carried by 6!
You are only pawn in game of life.
But, he is a pawn with a gun, no?
HAHA! What is that? A Pawn+?
That has long been my mantra. I carried in my current home state for over 20 years before the gubmint decided to honor a pre existing right, and finally issue ccw permits. That being said, prior to actually having my permit, I mostly carried a J frame concealed.
With certain high profile locations that are protected ONLY by the gun buster signs, and most certainly during times of increased risk, I have carried a concealed weapon into such locations. Since the whole point of carrying the weapon is to stop a potential assailant from carrying out a mass attack, it would only make sense to have the weapon in the first place.
Having said that, I wouldn’t carry a weapon if I was going to be drunk in the first place. And I definitely would have a holster which would not allow a handgun to pop out. And I definitely wouldn’t carry a handgun that goes off from being dropped. Really, this guy is just plain stupid.
P.S. I live in PA and I am referencing PA laws.
I will not carry if the notice is legally binding and carries a serious penalty. I believe the penalty for refusing to leave a posted private business in Minnesota is $15 and then only if you refuse to leave. If discovered I will comply with the property owner and go away.
Is your handle tdiinva (Now in Minnesota was Now in Wisconsin( now?
I live on The Wisconsin bank of the Mississippi. I have a Minnesota license to carry issued by the Winona County Sheriff.
Had dinner last night at a great restaurant with a gunbuster sign (no legal effect in TX), was looking forward to being found out prior to paying the check, which for the 7 of us was $360. I would have left without complaint.
I wouldn’t if my gun was one of those “just went off” models I keep hearing about in the news…
Just how important is it for that particular evening for that particular event? That’s kind of the question I’d have to ask before deciding because this is what’s at stake:
If your firearm prints through your clothes, if someone gets a glimpse under your coat or however you’re carrying, they’re going to freak out and call the authorities. You’re going to be arrested and you’re not going to be doing anything you planned to do for at least the next several hours if you’re lucky. You will be prosecuted for something absent extreme luck. You will have to hire a good attorney to get a decent outcome and that will cost a lot of money. You will have a record of some kind in connection with it and if you’re smart enough to ask the attorney about a record ahead of time, they’ll tell you a) we can try to settle the case but then you can’t get rid of the record, or b) if we try the case and lose, you can’t get rid of the record. So if you don’t want a record, you have to go all the way to trial and win in a circumstance where you were carrying where you weren’t supposed to be carrying. That’s going to be tough. Or you’ll have a record.
Frankly, unless you’re in New Jersey or some other equally fanatic state, you’re not likely to serve serious time for trespassing or similar charges, but they will try hard to make you into a felon just so you lose your rights.
I would think there are very few circumstances in which the risk of all of that is worthwhile. I hate to say that since I am a firm believer in personal liberties and freedoms and the right to keep and bear arms in particular, but until we can get the laws changed and educate our fellow citizens, they’re more likely to lynch us than they are to go chase real criminals.
Just open carry and add a holstered pair of handcuffs to your rig. No one will pay any attention to you.
Especially if you look the part…
Retarded shaved head and shades at night?
Saw a guy in the post office like that. Khakis, tucked in polo shirt, no badge visible. Twenty other people stood there completely oblivious. Probably a bail bondsman (officer of the court).
I’m actually replying to J. Le Petomaine below, but the comment system wont let me continue expanding the thread. I don’t know what state you are referring to, but here in NC I, as a bail bondsman, am NOT considered an officer of the court. Our carry rights are only those which the average law-abiding citizen has. We don’t get special privileges for guns.
Well for all I know he could have just been a douche with a gun and a pair of handcuffs. He didn’t have a badge displayed though, and I honestly believe I was the only person that noticed the firearm. But then I only noticed because I was probably the only one aware that a 3″ pocket knife, let alone a firearm could get you a year in federal prison if you’re busted with it in a post office. Looked a little shaggy for regular LEO, but maybe he was a detective or something. Someone suggested bondsman at the time, but I could be wrong or it could vary by state.
Where the Hell do you live, that you believe all that crap would happen? Sure isn’t in TX! I have heard of people hassled for printing, but if anybody wants to charge me, I’ll take a jury trial, thank you. If the gun is covered, it is concealed, print or no. Other than terror tactics and stories from NJ, does anyone know of actual prosecutions of law-abiding citizens for carrying where it was naughty?
I live in Iowa and I’m not a student so other than the post office there’s not really any place for me to go where it’s not legal to carry. But one thing that carrying opened my eyes to is just how easy it is to walk around with a firearm undetected. So theoretically maybe.
I have…missed seeing the 30.06 signs on occasion, due to said sign being too small and out of the way.
Generally avoid doing so, however. I also never carry at work because I’m rather not get fired for violating the “no weapons” policy, which would make my life suck a lot and is a lot more likely to happen than being judged by twelve.
I wish we had TX signage requirements here. Get out the tape measure!
You will not miss a legally posted 30.06 sign, it will not be remotely small, or out of the way. Only thing louder is a combination of correctly (legally) posted 30.06 and 30.07 signs on one establishment, it blocks the entire door, in huge letters and multicolored. If I were not a licensed carrier, it would scare the piss out of me, that guns were so big and important in this place, I’d probably take my business elsewhere, where I didn’t have to be afraid of nasty guns since they did not have those scary signs. I’m pretty sure that was the whole idea.
Why no…absolutely not.
Seriously, I wouldn’t do that.
Not under any circumstances.
Never have; never will.
Why won’t you believe me?
I don’t own any firearms.
In Minnesota it is carry until you are asked to leave. I believe most of us read those signs as “Please carry concealed in our establishment.” and I can respect that; as an owner of an establishment you have every right to make your business palatable to all your clientele.
Like most, I’m not willing to be the poster boy for 2A is my permit, so any place where it would be an automatic felony is right out. I simply disarm and simply be more alert.
I live in MN too, and that is how I operate. Felony? I’m leaving my gun. Everywhere else is fair game. Catch me if you can.
I work at a place where firearms aren’t allowed past a certain point. I have a badge that allows me to enter restricted areas, but I rarely go into them. My work place policy says that no firearms are allowed, but I work in area that is very susceptible to an attack. I’m the only person standing between someone potentially with bad intentions and the restricted area where they could cause innumerable damage. What do you think?
If there is no metal detectors or pay-downs, nobody knows who is armed.
What if they just pat you down, without making you pay?
I don’t always carry concealed, but I make it a habit to avoid places that forbid the practice.
The malls around here have such crappy signage that it’s easy to get in without seeing one. They have them at the end of the rows of doors (in a static window) or on the side wall of the vestibule between doors. Walk in, look straight ahead, not glancing around. “What sign? I didn’t see any sign!”
Better yet, go in through the anchor stores. There’s NO signage there, and there’s no signs at the store-to-mall entrance.
Elsewhere with proper signs, the 1st penalty is a fine, 2nd a suspension and 3rd a revocation.
But, as has been said, concealed means concealed. You have to be noticed to get caught.
Since this is theoretical, I would ask myself what I figure the odds of a realistic threat would be.
For instance, if I was a resident of downtown Los Angeles I would strongly consider carrying…just about anywhere.
I live in an extremely safe community, however. I never carry where policy or law prohibit it. I have the ability to run like the wind though…
I’ve carried in that exact theater.
But I wasn’t a drunk gun-fondler.
Fondle your date, not your gun…
Nope, never. Live in a pretty gun-friendly place. I seldom find myself needing to disarm to abide by the law. Best to not break the law as the laws here aren’t overburdening. Much easier to work with my local law makers to clean up the century code. It’s been quite effective to work within the law.
Only if I could justify it with an articulable threat and had an inability to go somewhere else that perhaps didn’t explicitly disallow it. We’re law abiding, not stupid.
How banned? Like “you need to leave”/petty misdemeanor trespassing banned? Or misdemeanor/arrest banned? Or felony “your ass is going to prison”/”say goodbye to your rights” banned? It all depends.
I just avoid places that prohibit guns. I don’t need to go to the Post Office, I don’t have kids, and I don’t spend a whole lot of time in government buildings. I don’t drink, so the only bars I go to are restaurant type bars with my friends, which is not illegal. The only place I do follow a no guns rule is at work, because we have restricted key card access and are audited for security by Homeland Security (it is a terrorism target). And I wouldn’t want to carry at work, I am moving around a lot in different positions and there is a lot of corrosive material around.
If your description is correct, that sounds like a place a disgruntled coworker could arrive with several spare mags and kill a whole lot of people. Ya pays your money and takes your choice.
If the feds wanted to get people to confess to breaking the law prior to arresting them, they would say something like this:
[NOTE: TTAG does not share email or IP addresses with any third party.]
All they need to know is what a bunch of liars there are on TTAG. Nothing here is evidence of shit. Or probable cause.
Only when they tell me I can’t concealed-carry at the gun show.
Lately, I think TTAG is becoming the National Enquirer with its “Headlines.” They post this headline: ”
Question of the Day: Would You Carry Where It’s Not Legal?” with a story where a guy carried in a place where it WAS legal, but banned by theater policy. WTF? What does one (headline) have to do with the other (article)?
Since signage in my state carries no legal weight, I ignore it if I’m carrying. Hell, this one time, in a daring move, I went right past a sign that said “No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service,” AND I WAS BAREFOOT! Can you believe it?
Between this crap, and continuing to post articles by FirearmConcierge, RF, you need to get it together.
The Feds don’t need to ask TTAG for logs. They have a hardware link available to them for instant surveillance from TTAGs ISP at the server per CALEA and could have many archives of stored traffic per DCSnet. Don’t think for one second there is any kind of privacy here. I guarantee you they aren’t requesting permission from any judges to use it either.
In my state, with a concealed handgun license, I can legally carry almost everywhere, including schools, bars, hospitals, churchs, etc.. These are places where it is illegal in many other states. Pretty much the only place off limits to me are federal buildings and court facilities and I don’t carry there at all, a felony is not worth it. It is legal to carry in City buildings unless it is a court facility, and the state laws are preemptive, meaning Cities and districts can’t set their own rules against the state law. Schools and police departments like to put out signs that say “no weapons allowed, even those with Concealed handgun licenses” but those mean only squat, since the state law is very clear that I am exempt as a concealed handgun license holder.
Regarding private businesses, signs do not carry force of law, so I will carry everywhere, no matter the signs. It’s only trespassing if a business representative finds out you have a firearm and asks you to leave and you don’t. Only then can you possibly be arrested for trespassing, assuming you don’t leave by the time the Cops get there.
That said, I rarely if ever see no gun signs on business doors so it hasn’t been an issue.
I don’t carry at work since they have a no firearm policy and I could get fired if caught. The good thing is I work from home 85% of the time, so it is a non-issue the majority of the time.
I work on a DOD base & never carry there because it’s not worth possible federal pound-me-in-the a$$ prison charges, plus loss of my job & clearance. Ditto for USPS & other state/federal buildings. I also don’t risk carrying in DC or any of the other blue slave states to my north (MD/NJ/NY/MA/etc.) that have no sense of humor about such matters.
On the other hand, I routinely carry concealed into local stores, restaurants, movies, etc. that may or may not have signs saying it’s not allowed. I make a point of never seeing such signs so I can say with a straight face I didn’t know what the owner’s policy was if ever I am discovered. So far, so good.
All the time.
Shhh. We shall not speak of this. Kinda blows our “good guy with a gun” stance if we’re committing a crime in the process.
Yes the 2A should be the last word; but we don’t all have the financial wherewithal to retain good enough counsel, long enough to see that fight through to the end.
It’s a peril for individual consideration. I don’t disagree with doing it. I plea the 5th concerning my own carry habits.
But for the love of all holy things, stop playing with your damn gun in public & quit carrying in soft, loose, crap holsters. If you can’t turn your holster upside-down & shake it without the firearm falling out, you need to fix it or get a better holster. You should be checking this feature regularly in your holster.
What you said is more true to this story then you know. Local reports says the guy was drunk from possibly consuming a 24oz beer before the movie. Then just tucking the 45 in his waist band (Mexican carry). Unclear why he was messing with it during the movie since he gave three different accounts of what happen to the police.
Ironically, while my state/county/city government aids and abets the violation of immigration law on a massive scale themselves-
No, I won’t violate the law.
However, when called to jury duty I will not convict anyone of any violation of the law and have informed the judges of my position.
I would never do that again because it would be wrong.
You lyin’ sack of… 🙂
I can’t do it again. Not since the tragic boat accident.
There is a difference being ALLOWED vs. being ABLE.
I decide based on ability. If anyone finds out, they are presenting a deadly force threat, so every other consequence is a secondary consideration.
Here is a fun one. I don’t have a permit or own a handgun that would fit the bill, but I work with guns for a living every single day. Customers are allowed to carry concealed with the appropriate permits, but employees are banned from having a weapon. WTF?
I live near there, I work right next to the theater, and I also workout near there and I always CCW hence the word Conceal is to conceal carry. I am responsible for myself and my loves one therefore I would rather be judge by my peers of 6 than 6ft under.
There is a no guns allowed sign at the gate to get into the parking lot of my place of employment. I don’t carry into work, but there is a gun in my vehicle everday. From talking with my coworkers, There are a lot of guns in vehicles in that parking lot. Out of 400 or so vehicles, the is probably greater than 300 firearms. All in a gun free zone. I have no idea who set the policy or posted the signs, but they are rather ineffective.
…unless the objective is to eventually imprison innocent gun owners.
There is no such thing as “innocent gun owners”.
Sounds like your parking lot is a great place for would be thieves then. I really hope the firearms are all properly secured and out of sight (including the cases that most people would recognize contain guns).
True, but there is a gate and cameras. Not to say it won’t happen, but I have never heard of anyone’s vehicle being broken into there. I would think that in my part of arkansas, most large parking lots at places of employment have a very similar number of firearms in vehicles. That said I would prefer to carry it in and store it, but that would ruffle someone’s feathers I’m sure.
If you lived in a state that didn’t issue permits, for example MD, would you carry anyway?
You know there is no way you are going to obtain a permit based off the current law and criminal activity in the area is high, do you break the law to give yourself a better chance?
I don’t, but I guess I couldn’t say I never would carry where it was disallowed. When a private property owner makes a decision about their property, I think that warrants respect. If I can, I will vote with my wallet and spend my money elsewhere, but I will respect the landowner ‘ wishes, as I expect my wishes respected in my home or at my business.
I think the choice to carry or not becomes more difficult to justify as we declare others’ view on this moot by disregarding their wishes.
As many others have said, go elsewhere if they have a “gun free zone” sign up. I live in Chicago, and even here it is easy to find places to do anything that allow or even (rarely) encourage carrying.
Hypothetically speaking, I would carry everywhere that I do not have to undergo a putdown or go through a metal detector. I would do so for the past 35 years or so.
Just speaking hypothetically, mind you….
[NOTE: TTAG does not share email or IP addresses with any third party.]
… until the government hands a National Security Letter to Robert and Robert decides not to be sent to Federal prison.
Unless the situation has changed, the servers are not located with Robert. The web server is located in Chicago. Also, the Feds don’t have to ask anyone. They likely can remotely view the log files at any time. They certainly can record the traffic in and out from the site at any time.
Issuance of a National Security letter in search for somebody carrying a pistol where he shouldn’t would be cause for national insurrection. Completely unimportant, and unprosecutable as well.
I don’t have that choice to make since that tragic boating accident…
I’ve already answered that question. Concealed means concealed. Signs mean nothing at a private business in Washington State. The only thing they can do is kick you out and trespass you. I don’t worry about because I carry concealed. Did I mention the concealed thing?
Not where it is illegal because I’m not a criminal. If there was someplace that I felt was unsafe and illegal for me to carry I wouldn’t go there.
Yes, I do now and will continue to do so.
I wouldn’t carry if they had their “gun free zone” sign up.
However, if an armed robber came in – I would not assist them. I would attempt to silently and quickly evade the area. After all, they directly requested me not to assist them (the sign is for me – not for robbers). If they are raped or murdered by the robber – I sympathize with them. But that is all I can do. The owner of the “no guns allowed sign” has placed their safety and my liability (for prosecution) on a scale and I regret that my freedom weighs more.
Well, I started carrying, in a car and occasionally on my person, in the mid-to-late 1960s, which wasn’t legal very many places under any circumstances, and I did not live in Vermont. Carried over most of the country, through CA, back to the East coast, round and round, probably broke that law in 25 different states, or more. Statute of limitations says braaa-a-a-at, take that. Of course, once I got a license, I pay absolute and devoted attention to every stupid restriction on that license, just as I did when there was no such thing.
On anther note I don’t have a EDC gun but I do have a EDC knife.
Hell yeah. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Just keep it in a good holster and you won’t have a negligent discharge (Thinking about batting averages helps with that too).
yes sir, been there done that. carry small gun in pocket
What part of “shall not be infringed” was puzzling you?
Theoretically, if I believe that I’m going to need a weapon, I’m going to have a weapon regardless of what the law says about it.
Also theoretically, if I strongly believe that I’m going to need a weapon wherever I’m planning to go, I’m going to seriously consider whether I really need to go there or not, and if at all possible, I’ll go somewhere with a much lower threat value.
The unfortunate watercraft tragedy in my past makes this completely hypothetical, of course.
I’m with Larry in TX-I won’t take anything”illegal” into a court but the post office is good to go for me. Lots of cash in drawers being handed out. Honestly surprised more robberies don’t happen. AND getting old doesn’t help-I’ll be damned if I want to get in a wrestling match…
I do carry everywhere I go in the US. I have also been caught a few times and had to explain LEOSA to business owners, movie theater operators and other venue management. They really don’t like guns at the Kennedy Space Flight Centerl!!!!
I take the concealed part of CCW serious. I am human, I know I will eventually walk in someplace carry is legally prohibited. If I CCW correctly, no one will know unless I actually need the gun. If I do need it, then the legal issues are no longer my primary concern.
Just because ttag doesnt share doesnt mean that others dont. Tor it up folks
Yes… and no.
There are some times and places where I wouldn’t give a flying f*** about what the law says about CC.
But considering I’m going to school (not college, senior year or high school) which is one of the only legally protected areas in the great state of Alaska, and I have no holsters…. not on a day to day basis.
I would disarm when required simply because I value my rights. If I get caught with a gun somewhere that am not allowed, the. There go my gun rights for life. So that’s why I would rather avoid gun free zones.
I will never admit to it. Maybe I have, and maybe I have not.
I avoid places where it is illegal, not only because I can’t carry, but because I refuse to patronize those places. If I do have to go to a place where carrying is illegal, I weigh “how illegal” it is and what my probability of getting caught is. I have no respect for GFZs. They violate 2A, which is higher law, so to me they aren’t really laws, but rather they are an attempt at illegal, but unfortunately sometimes effective, coercion by the government.
In my state, the first offense of violating a “private/posted” GFZ is a misdemeanor trespass violation that does not cause a loss of gun or permit rights and is only a $100 fine. I will risk it most places, because I carry concealed and concealed means concealed. Who would know? They can’t frisk me. They can’t ask what the bulge is in my pocket, unless they want to risk a crass joke! I’ll bet I could violate 10,000 private GFZs and never get my $100 fine. In the case presented in the OP, the real “violation” was the ND. If you’re carrying anywhere, GFZ or not and you have an ND, it’s all on you.
A place like a state or federal office or an airport terminal is another matter. Now the ante is higher. Not worth the risk. I carry to mitigate risk to my person and to exercise my rights. To me, risking going to prison is not mitigating risk or preserving my rights.
Lots of comments on the subject.. i prefer to just read them.
Carrying was not the problem, shooting the woman in the back was.
It depends on the level of “gun free” zone. In TX, gunbuster and other generic “no guns” signs are meaningless. I ignore those and go about my business concealed. An example is a local mall with a “no weapons” policy on their sign but no legal postings. “30.06” signs that fit the legal criteria have some legal power, but since it’s only a $200 fine and Class C Misdemeanor, I’d probably carry concealed and take my chances IF it’s a place I can’t avoid. Most of those places can be avoided, though, with multiple alternatives. As far as the more serious “gun free” zones like post offices, courthouses, bars (51% sign), etc., I don’t carry and try to avoid if at all possible.
Unfortunately, the topic is dealing with gun-free zones. The issue is at the heart of the anti-gun argument….a woman minding her own business, not in a stupid place, not doing stupid things was shot by someone who moments before was not a bad guy with a gun. This episode is the very fear of every anti-gun person on the planet; accidental discharge. The fear is real, rational, and palpable. And we have no mitigating response. All the chest-thumping about rights, and open carry and concealed carry, and no restrictions, and whatever mindless sloganeering comes from our side cannot touch the real, reasonable and palpable that some stranger in a “normal” setting will end up shooting someone who did not deserve it, and was/is not part of the POTG. And the pro-gun organizations are doing nothing to ease the minds of the public that such an event cannot happen to them. This is where we lose the fight. The woman who was shot by an idiot gun carrier can influence six people, and each of them can influence six people, and each of those…it becomes a geometric progression. It is why nearly 50% of the public wants guns banned completely. Pro-gun advocates, and their favorite support group should immediately call or write the nearest media outlet and denounce these incidents, while at the same time presenting solid ideas about how to lower such risk even further. Mostly, we sit silent. The lamestream media will not take our calls, but the twitisphere should be lit up with our outrage. Conservative political conduits should be swamped with our condemnation calls. Those are places we can be heard, and the word released for a larger audience than any of the lamestream can manage.
theoretically speaking it may have happened a time or two either thought about it, or oops I’m carrying in a restricted venue
Either way I will chance the Jail or Prison time! Public establishments Must be sued if they don’t provide adequate protection in their establishment, same as a home owner inviting a person into their home is obligated for their protection!
You mean would we follow the Constitution where lesser “laws” violate it?
“All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” – Supreme Court 1803, Marbury v. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176
But the determiner of whether or not a law is repugnant is not a decision permitted the citizen. Courts decide. So, whatever unconstitutional law pleases the courts is not repugnant. Case-by-case; not a permanent shield.
If I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO go somewhere that I deemed was unsafe and it was illegal to carry, hell yes I would carry. There is a whole city adjacent to my county that I drive around instead of thru because of the crime rate. There is a shooting inside the city limits every other day. I think the CLEO just quit, again but the “people” of that rat hole keep electing the same mayor over and over again. He is doing a fine job. At what I have no idea.
Yes, with the exception of government buildings or locations/events with security. Like most decisions its risks vs wards and all related odds and I’m not trying to get in trouble.
I am employed at a location where guns are not allowed by my employer.
I would rather be found out and fired, than be dead
Since I posted this on the internet, I assure you that I am lying