The video above concerns a controversy in Cedar Falls. The City Council is on the brink of mandating that owners of commercial buildings and apartment dwellings maintain a lock box so police, fire or rescue can gain immediate access in an emergency. Ah emergencies. Is there anything the government won’t do in an emergency? Before Hurricane Katrina, I dismissed talk of government gun grabbers as the paranoid delusion of tin foil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists. After members of the National Guard went house-to-house confiscating firearms in Louisiana, I changed my mind . . .
Liberal gun owner and writer Dan Baum—who quit this website in disgust at my [supposedly] strident pro-gun tone—was in a Big Easy bar when the Guard entered and grabbed guns. He said the confiscation was OK ’cause there really were some scary ass people with firearms who needed disarmament.
For a lot of us, the scary ass people with firearms wear uniforms.
That said, the recent Incendiary Image of the Day revealed a post-tornado scenario wherein the Guard were helping lawful gun owners defend their lives and property. So it’s not all good guys vs. bad guys stuff. Still, I wonder . . . would you surrender your guns to government troops in an emergency? What if the cops showed up with a warrant to search your premises for firearms safety violations?
Under what conditions would you surrender your firearms—if any? I know some of you have hidden firearms for just such an eventuality. How realistic is that?
If law enforcement suddenly showed up in an emergency and demanded my guns, I’d probably be non confrontational and just surrender them getting receipts for each item (so I could pick them up later and or be able to file suit). LE just doing what they are told to do from higher up.
I WOULD get them back (or replaced at full value) eventually. Those collected at my house would only be a fraction of my collection and I’d be armed again within 5 minutes of departure. Not worth shooting over.
And the rest were lost in that horrible boating accident. 😉
The only circumstance I can think of surrendering a firearm is if I used said firearm to legally defend myself and I killed the attacker. Even then, I would expect the gun back in ASAP.
But only the firearm I used. It will become a problem if the local LEO’s decide they want all of my firearms.
I’d surrender my firearms pursuant to a lawful order, but I would have to keep my alcohol, tobacco and explosives. Fair’s fair.
Alot of people will come up and be like “NEVAH! MOLON LABE! Blaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggh”
And beat their chests.
If the authorities came to get our guns, and it was to the point where you had to choose between your life, and your families life, and a bunch of metal and wooden objects, of course any sane man would surrender his guns.
That would be a very sad day, but a already day faced by MOST of the world, and its up to us, the NRA, and the Second Amendment to make sure it never comes.
We are slowly becoming a police state.
slowly becominga police state.
There ya go — fixed it …
Sad to say. And not unrecoverable, I must hope, but them’s the facts.
no, we are a police state now , they just haven’t been agressive in pursueing it yet. good thing I don’t own any guns.
Don’t quote me on this, but I believe the phrase goes something like… ” They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead fingers…” Please correct me if I am wrong….
Thats easy to say,but when 5-6 guys with uniforms point loaded ARs with the safety off at you and your family its not that easy.then you run the risk of being one of the statistics!!the dead kind!!I saw the videos where people was describing how they were disarmed after the hurricane and it was scary.
Yeah, this thing – Molōn labe! – I see in people’s gun forum sig lines all the time.
As I tell my clients, physically resisting police is a terrible idea. It gets people hurt (you) and it gets people in trouble (also you) and it never prevents the police from doing, at least in the short term, what they’ve set their minds to doing. Even assuming that the police are NOT better armed than you are, they’ll ALWAYS have more backup. Always.
We are a nation of laws, and we will achieve positive change (or thwart tyrrany) only through elections or peaceful protest.
haven’t flown lately, eh?
Civil disobedience is a legitimate form of peaceful protest; I didn’t say anyone should cooperate.
There are no conditions under which I would surrender my firearms because I do not break any laws that make me a danger to myself or others. It is clearly my right under the second amendment to own and carry firearms at my discretion. The fact that anyone would maintain otherwise in the United States is completely confusing to me.
I’m glad I don’t live in Cedar Falls. Sounds like a terribly unsafe place to live where seemingly any city employee will be able to gain entry into your home at will.
Cache, cache, cache.
It is scary for a thinking man to watch when elected officials acknowledge they are going against the will of the people and “drive on” nonetheless. If a government ever became so totalitarian, the successful resistance or guerrilla fighters must seem to be the ones in compliance. The only other option is to go to “ground” and face being hunted down. Without allies supplying food, ammo, medical care, such a group would be predictable as they scavenged and attacked government forces for these very same supplies. The very element of surprise is what makes a guerrilla successful, and having to strive for basic survival needs will affect his effectiveness. The only other option is caches of weapons, food, clothing, tools and basic needs. Just as it is smart to stockpile some needs for devastating weather-remembering Hugo and how the weather has gone crazy lately, picking up extra canned goods (canned corn usually has a shelf life of 3 years), is it really such a bad idea to buy that extra box of ammo per week? If a government suddenly wanted to limit your ownership, last minute buying of cases of ammo would surely catch someone’s attention, wouldn’t it?
There is no lawful order to surrender. PERIOD
If they want them…I sold them years ago.
You answer your door for the police?
LE could take my guns from me obviously. But no circumstance exists where I would willingly surrender any gun I own to a bureaucrat.
As far as this key issue goes, I see these key lock boxes on storefronts and other buildings all over Pennsylvania. It was explained to me that they were put there to allow the fire department to gain access to your building if there was a fire after business hours.
Of course I didn’t ask this individual why they (F.D.) wouldn’t simply bash a door to get in. LE doesn’t seem to have any problem bashing doors when they want to get in somewhere.
Just another little chink in the armor of liberty.
they are probably all keyed the same. so if you can make,steal/find a key for one , you can enter ay business you want.very convienient for criminals.
I don’t see a propblem if its volentary, but volentary compliance offen becomes manditory.
I don’t have immediate family (or anybody living with me), and I wouldn’t surrender anything unless I know I’ve hidden most of my guns and can get them to leave if I surrender SOMETHING. Otherwise, I don’t think so. You want to point loaded ARs at me with the safety off, that’s your business, but I’m taking some of you with me when I go.
Cold and dead.
They will take what they can find, and you keep whatever they don’t find.
yes, I would never initate violence over this .
In answer to the Q of the Day, I would smile, raise my hands, and ask if they would draw my conceal-carry (which is my home carry also) from its holster. I certainly won’t reach for my conceal carry with weapons drawn on me. That’s just ignant.
I would then show them my Infragard membership card and ask if I am exempt from the sweep because of my Infragard/FBI standing.
I had never heard of Infraguard until now – looks like free CI work for the FBI.
Infragard is an awesome organization
They can have my throw down.
None whatsoever. Now, obviously, I’m not saying I’m going to hole up in my bunker and try to fight off the Blue Helmets and black helicopters by myself. I’m stubborn and opiniated, not suicidal. Defense is a difficult game to play, especially when facing a larger force with superior training and weapons. No, they’ll come and take my handfull of firearms that I keep in the house. Enough to look like a modest stash; a couple of pistols, a shotgun, and a rifle. I’ll then access the cache of weapons and that I keep hidden and retaliate as a small, anonymous, dedicated guerilla unit. Which do you think would be more effective? More importantly, which do you think the government would fear more? 80 million crazy guys that were killed or captured in their homes, or 80 million pissed of militant patriots who now have a clear idea of who the enemy is?
That is of course IF I still had guns. Unfortunately, I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident/ house fire. It was a house boat, it caught on fire and then sank.
Guns? What guns?
Except I just don’t think on the day of a general gun round up they aren’t also going to take a fair amount of the owners in too. This thread is evidence of the lack of cooperation such a handing over would get. Think the G hasn’t got a file with how many NICS checks we have done, or the credit card records, etc? What happens when they don’t get what they expect? Aren’t theoretical problems fun?
Many cities and towns in NY State have a tradition of subjecting apartment dwellers to code and other “inspections” that the private homeowner would consider an appalling privacy violation. Of course, landlords can enter an apartment for almost any good reason. I’ve asked landlords to leave me a handwritten note after they’ve been in. They’ve been fine with that. But the state having a key is another issue – and something that should be resisted.
For larger buildings, there are good reasons for annual fire inspections. But the question is: Where do you draw the line? A duplex? A triple? A 30 unit, four story brownstone? The latter is an interesting case since one degenerate tenant with non-functional smoke detectors has the potential (and lifestyle tendencies) to burn a significant part of the place.
A good municipality (with wealthy, legally aware apartment dwellers (in NY, these are common)) gives notice and works with tenants. Although, if you’re home and don’t want to be bothered, a quick “Get a warrant” will result in no inspection.
The video is interesting in that the city council draws a nice big distinction between single family homes and apartments / commercial properties.
They can have the weapons they know about or can find with a search warrant or probable cause. Anything else is between myself and my attorney to negotiate. I would never think of resisting arrest or preventing a LEO from serving a legal warrant. Jail is jail and I’m too damn old to snuggle up to Bubba.
Reply to Chris Dumm:
You state, “As I tell my clients, physically resisting police is a terrible idea. It gets people hurt (you) and it gets people in trouble (also you) and it never prevents the police from doing, at least in the short term, what they’ve set their minds to doing. Even assuming that the police are NOT better armed than you are, they’ll ALWAYS have more backup. Always.”
The deliberate, calculated murder of Tucson AZ resident and fmr. Marine Jose Guerena when he was awakened by a SWAT Team committing home invasion of his home proves this (furthermore, he never took his AR off of safety, but merely stood in the way of his wife and child being attacked, think in terms of conscientious objection).
You also state, “We are a nation of laws, and we will achieve positive change (or thwart tyrrany) only through elections or peaceful protest.”
Clearly you do not agree with the Founding Fathers’ Declaration of Independence (and thus not the 2nd Amendment)!
The QotD is an interesting one. The Cedar Falls video, however, leads me to other equally interesting questions. The first is “How in the deepest bowels of hell did these creeps get elected?” These are the very people that C.S. Lewis was talking about when he spoke of the worst tyrants being those who tyrannized us for our own good. It almost leaves me speechless.
I swear, if the founders had this video they could have had the constitution ratified in about a week.
I would expect these bozos to get voted out at the next election
I wonder if something happened that prompted this, or if these benevolent city leaders just dreamed this stuff up on their own. Since the fire fighters obviously can’t be trusted to think for themselves (to recognize different levels of emergencies) or to know how to enter a building properly (forced entry is a basic firefighter taught skill).
For the QotD it all depends on the context; if it’s an immediate thing with a bunch of guys in uniforms pointing big guns at me, they can take the guns they can find.
I’m not interested in becoming a martyr.
Surrender, I don’t think I can think of any reason to. I won’t try to fight off the police if they come to take them, but I don’t have any guns anyway….
This is exactly what the Jews did in 1938. Handed over their guns to the “officials.”
If every one of them had used their guns to take out just two of the Nazi pricks, there would have been no holocaust. There are 60 million homes with guns, and an average of seven guns per gun-owning household. You think young cops or GIs with wives and families at home want to show up to breakfast the next day in a body bag? How long before the “officials” give up and go home, and leave the gunnies to their own devices? Don’t you think your .308 will get through the body armor of the first guy in the stack and into the next?
I’m old enough to do the right thing, and they can have my guns after they take the bullets, 155 grains at a time, at 2,800 feet per second.
Molon labe, mother-fuckers!
You are here for my guns? Well, I have this old 22 rifle my dad gave me, but its all rusted from when he kept it in the barn all those years. I keep it for sentimental reasons, and because it looks nice over the mantle.
Oh, do I have any other guns?
N0. No sir I do not.
I got my permit a bunch of years ago but then found out how expensive guns really are and never bothered to buy one. When I go to the range I rent one of theirs.
wink wink, nudge nudge.