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partial The NSSF is out this morning with one of their patented infographics, this one depicting how big a bidness hunting and related activities are in the US (full version after the jump). While thirty-eight billion may be pocket change to Mike Bloomberg, that’s still a lot of samolians. But in addition to their economic contributions, some hunters – more derisively referred to by a few around here as “Fudds” – have also been known at times for their linguini-spined support for some of their fellow firearms owners’ gun rights. More than a few have taken the Zumbo-esque approach of throwing “terrorist rifles” (ARs and AKs) under the gun grabbers’ bus, apparently based on the calculus that if they just give them the scary black semi-autos, their bolt actions and scatter guns will be left alone. To which we’d respond with one word: incrementalism . . .


Not to go all slippery slope on you, but those who make up the Armed Intelligentsia (i.e., TTAG’s dedicated readership) know that the Niemoller approach to gun rights defense is a recipe for disaster. And that civilian disarmers are never truly satisfied. “First they came for the ‘assault rifles’ and I said no one needs one of those things.” By the time they come for your Beretta 486 Parallelo bird gun, there won’t be anyone left to stick up for the “sportsmen.” Surely, though, the Gun Control Industrial Complex would never try to outlaw shotguns…would they?

Don’t be so sure. Some around these parts think they see groundwork already being laid for it. Aaron Alexis somehow managed to mow down an awful lot of people without ever touching a “weapon of war,” no matter what you may have read in the papers. He did most of his damage with an unassuming Remmy 870. Which is why we’re reading now about a new new ballistic genus, the ‘law enforcement-style shotgun.’ Don N. sure thinks something’s up. And Michi made the same connection. In a comment yesterday, (s)he wrote, “Since the anti gunners are now beginning to mumble about shotguns now, maybe this will wake up some fudds.”

Will this finally cause the “Fudd” demographic to wake up and smell the potentially confiscatory coffee? Will they look down the road and decide it’s finally time to get on the gun-rights-for-all bandwagon?


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  1. No I gave up on the fudds a long time ago when the Clinton ban was getting pushed through and they did nothing then the Newtown push and still nothing.

  2. “Gun Control Industrial Complex would never try to outlaw shotguns…would they?’

    BB guns in NJ… Bandwagon brainzombies know no bounds of what they will endeavor to achieve in their war against the 2nd Amendment.

    • So if NJ treats BB guns as firearms, have the chicken littles in charge stumbled over a nail gun yet? They can be quite dangerous in the wrong hands. Or maybe no NJ political critter has watched Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon….

  3. Yep, some of my fellow hunters just don’t get it. I’m guessing those in California are getting an unpleasant wake-up call. The rest of the Fudds need to open up their eyes and pay attention. “Shall not be infringed” applies to everything…except maybe RPGs and Stingers.

  4. This is where they probably have to get on the bandwagon. There may be legitimate differences between a Remington 700 and an AR-15 (bolt action 5 rounds vs. semi-auto and 30 round standard capacity magazines), but when it comes to what they define as a “law enforcement style shotgun” the only distinct features that they draw that conclusion from are that one is black and may have a shorter barrel. But especially when it comes to shotguns the fundamental differences in terms of form and function between a defensive shotgun and a sporting gun are almost nonexistent. Of course if they defined sporting shotguns as double barrel Italian made models then Joe Biden would get his way and most of us would be priced out of the market. The antis win.

    • Some here may not be old enough to remember when the prohibitionists were going after bolt-action rifles (such as that Remy 700). After the “Texas bell-tower Sniper” indecent in 1968. There is already a precedent for that. Those “evil” guns are called “Sniper rifles”.

      As an aside, the Fudds probably won’t notice the ammo crunch either since all the center-fire Fudd calibers are still easy to find on any Wal-Mart self around here.

  5. Calling potential allies names and belittling them is not very smart. But hey, maybe you can get some “hip minorities” to take the place of the people you alienate.

    • +1 on that. Fudd here, benchrest competitor, Sporting Clay competitor, and happy AR15 and M14 owner. Hunters are your best face to the general public. Many “Fudds” shoot ARs and hunt with them or are you saying AR15s are not good for hunting? Lots of guys do more than knock down steel plates. Many hole punchers also hunt deer, coyote, prairie dog, fowl, and other upland game. You start giving in to calling names and you will find your purist attitude about who’s allowed in the gun rights club shrinking your support. There is a reason hunting shows are primetime and 3 gun nation isn’t. Its called membership and participation. There I am stepping off my soapbox.

        • I would prefer Danno to use the word sell-out to all those citizens who sell-out on their rights no matter what they do for fun in the woods, marshes, or prairies. Fudd is a word that has been used by so many nonhunting folk who think its silly to chase anything with a firearm. They are typically not firearm owners. Why start eating our own when there are so many enemies lining up at the gate. I am not a “big tent” guy but calling names isn’t a good way to keep the tribe in harmony. Heck lets go do a few more interviews with one legged, one-eyed, transexual, antifreedom (except the second amendment)members of the republic of Kalifornia to bolster our idea that we want more in the club. (sarcasm intended)

        • Cyrano, I’m not sure I understand — you’re telling folks to not call others names, but, then your post seems to end with the (…I hear it so often), “if you don’t subscribe to the ENTIRETY of the conservative package, we don’t need ya?”

          You state:

          ” Heck lets go do a few more interviews with one legged, one-eyed, transexual, antifreedom (except the second amendment)members of the republic of Kalifornia to bolster our idea that we want more in the club. (sarcasm intended)”

          I’m not sure what gender or sexual orientation has to do with “hating freedom” at all. Or what it has to do with firearms whatsoever. I’m most certainly not an OFWG, as some folks have perhaps caught on to. Does this somehow diminish the legwork I’ve done in Colorado to (hopefully) turn around some of these laws?

          I’m not sure what’s accomplished by making the People of the Gun into a “either you’re just like me or GTFO” sort of club.

      • You do not meet the definition of Fudd. A Fudd is someone that is oblivious to what is actually happening. Will gladly throw non-hunters who have non-hunting guns under the bus as long as they can keep their deer rifle and shotgun. Their mentality is “if it doesn’t have wood, then it is not something anyone needs to own”.

    • While it’s true that the cultural reference to Elmer Fudd is not particularly flattering, the origin of his name from the English word “fuddled” as defined below is apt in regard to those hunters we are referring to:

      [fuhd-l] Show IPA verb, fud·dled, fud·dling, noun

      verb (used with object)
      1. to muddle or confuse: a jumble of sounds to fuddle the senses.

      verb (used without object)
      3. to tipple.

      4. a confused state; muddle; jumble.

      I would submit that #4 noun definition is appropriate and until they see themselves as such they will not join the fight.

    • what’s really funny is that we KNOW exactly what the term “fudds” refers to: people who have gone along with gun restrictions because it didn’t affect THEIR guns (which have typically been those OFWG hunting weapons). yet the big concern now is not being too mean to them by calling them fudds?

      let me tell you, when they were bashing our non-fudd guns in the past, they certainly weren’t avoiding calling gun owners who liked evil black rifles and high-capacity magazines names themselves.

  6. Personally I don’t call *hunters* Fudds. Just the ones who devalue the non-hunting-style firearms and don’t care if they get banned.

  7. A few hunters I know are sympathetic to the 2nd amendment cause, but they refuse to get involved and get ‘in the matrix’ by writing letters, emails, joining nra/nagr/gocra, et. al; because they have their guns, they have their ammo, reloading equipment, ect, ect, ect. and they don’t want to be ‘registered and then get confiscated’. Ya know, their tin foil cap didn’t seem too disconcerting when they put it that way… Or selfish.

  8. Will this finally cause the “Fudd” demographic to wake up and smell the potentially confiscatory coffee?

    No. That won’t happen until they hear that 2 a.m. knock on their front door and the polite request to hand over their guns so we’ll all be safe.

    Not all hunters are Fudds, but all Fudds are sellouts. The NRA kicked them out in 1977 for a very good reason. The event was called The Cincinnati Revolt, and it’s a primary reason why there’s still a functioning Second Amendment in America.

  9. Many hunters now are using those “scary black rifles” when they hunt. Not just young hunters but the old timers too. As a hunter I can tell you, I won’t give an inch to this anti freedom movement and neither will anyone I hunt with.

    • I have helped several old fogies build their own AR-15s. Its nice to see a geezer get into th black gun craze. Thanks tp flat ops, and optics, they are coming out of the wood work like ants to honey.

  10. Hunters should get the lead out and start speaking up in support of ALL gun rights.


    CA Senate and Assembly have passed a bill that is going to Governor “Moonbeam” for signature. That bill requires all hunting ammunition in CA to be lead free. How long before other states follow suit; especially environmentally conscious anti gun states.

    One more nail in the gun ban coffin; one nail at a time. Wake up hunters; it’s just a matter of time before it’s too late to get on board. These incremental restrictions have been moving along at fits and starts for a very long time. You think you’re safe, but you’re not.

    Even environmentalists and animal rights proponents are gun banners. Certainly any left leaning group will support the grabbers, just out of principle if nothing else.

    Ya’ gotta’ speak up. Now.

  11. Wow … Zumbo…boy did he ever drop off the radar screen. Did he retire? I haven’t seen his TV show on for awhile. He took the ultimate beating over his stupid comments.

    What the NSSF doesn’t touch is the decline of numbers over the last decade while the population has increased by probably around 10million. The increased cost of licenses (like that is a GOOD THING). And finally the economic impact is a direct indication of increased cost of products like guns and ammo from the absolutely horrible economic conditions since 2001 along with the repressive governmental 2A efforts. Overall it is not a very pretty picture for the Daniel Boones of America.

  12. I witnessed a guy panic-buying birdshot earlier this year. He was on a cell phone, talking with hunting buddy about how the UN was coming after all guns and ammo now. Keep in mind, this was when the drought was at it’s worst when about all you could find was birdshot and 6mm around here. He clearly didn’t give a rat’s behinder about any of the gun bans that were still being pushed at the time, he only panicked when it looked like his gun (and hunting ammo) was going to be banned. He is who I think of when I think of Fudds.

    Maybe this last year was enough of a wake up call, or maybe a public push to throw shotguns under the bus will do. Maybe some future push to outlaw “high powered” rifles will do it. Or more states outlawing lead ammo. But I feel that we can’t hope for long term support from that camp. They don’t see gun rights as absolute, otherwise they would already be fighting.

  13. Folks I shoot thousands of rounds a year in SASS cowboy action shooting and I hunt both birds small game and deer and moose. The sooner you drop the “F” word totally and start treating it the way you would any of the racial epithets the better off we will be as gun owners. We do not need to do anything that splits gun owners apart.
    I have held CC permits for more than 45 years from 4 states including Conn. And Mass. Used with a 7.65mm Walther PPK That was a WW2 bring back of my dads. Though since I took up SASS I now pack a Ruger clone SAA in.45 colt with a short barrel. As I shoot them so much in competition I am willing to put up with the bulk for the comfort in use factor. I also when I was younger shot skeet and then sporting clays so I cover every aspect of the sport ( I plink with a Weatherby mark XXII and a Ruger 10-22 an a high standard HD military) next year I start shooting SASS wild bunch matches. And after a year or so of that will switch to using my grandfathers WW1 1911 as my carry gun.

    I have owned an AR18 since 1969 when very few sportsmen owned black guns and while it has been retired to varmint gun as I hone my skills with late 19th century and early 20th century firearms I fullly understand the desire to own fun guns. But drop the use of the “f” word entirely it is very counter productive!

    • Not all hunters are Fudds. But all Fudds are sellouts. Perhaps “Sellout” is more politically cowect. Excuse me, I meant “correct.”

    • Make you a deal, Larry – I’ll drop “Fudd” when the Fudds stop calling my AR a “terrorist weapon.” Sound good?

  14. We all need to stand together I know it hurts my soul to be inclusive….. but we have all seen how it goes if we don’t…

    First they came for the full Select Fire,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t one.
    Then they came for the Evil Black Colored Guns,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t one.
    Then they came for the Lead Bullets,
    and I didn’t speak out because I didn’t have any.
    Then they came for me,
    and there were no bullets…..

  15. I don’t hunt – never appealed to me. I don’t like the idea of killing. But I don’t condemn hunting, either – on the contrary, I support it fully and I wish I had an affinity for it. I stand side by side with hunters against PETA and anyone else who opposes them.

    That said – if the Fudd faction abandons me, and continues to wash their hands of me and my “assault weapon”, and they help (either by action, inaction or collaboration with the antis) to ban my guns, my position will change to this:

    “My ‘assault weapon’ has never, and will never, hurt anything outside of a paper target or tin can. And if you think I’ll stand side-by-side with hunters just so they can enjoy their sick pursuit of killing harmless animals for kicks, you’re crazy.”

    We hang together, or we hang separately. Your choice.

    • A lot of folks are only going to see your hypothetical, and get upset at it.

      I’m not a hunter either, but those that do, more power to ya.

      My personal affinity towards it may well change if the S ever does H T F, and I know hunters do a lot for the economy and conservation. So hunters aren’t my enemy.

      I think we’re getting a bit too far in the woods here. The issue is, there seems to not just be “pro” and “anti”, but a contingency – whatever you want to call them – that feels “some guns are ok but others are not”.

      We can dither on criteria, and split hairs, but what it comes down to are people who feel “My guns are OK, but yours are not.” / “Yeah, I’m a gun owner but I hate those nasty black rifles too!”

      Tip: Stockholm syndrome never got anyone anywhere with their captors. I know MAIG is touring with a guy who simply bills himself as “-Gun Owner”.

      But , y’know, not an owner of THAT kinda gun.

      If folks don’t want us to label that kind of person, fine. I’m sure he has a whole collection of names for us though.

  16. I really do think the “police style shotgun” and “law enforcement shotgun” references are more meaningful here, as far as the grabber agenda goes, than some may realize.

    This is all about wordcraft and shaping the message. Names for these guns indicate that they are improper for, and inherently not meant for the average citizen to possess.

    The unsaid words (they’re always there) is that a “police style”, or “law enforcement style”, or “military style” weapon is somehow “too effective” or “too lethal” for civilians to posess.

    It is incrementalism, and we’re simply seeing the next step. This WILL advance to “sniper style rifles” (bolt action), “high-powered military style ammunition” (.338 lapua, 50bmg) and pehaps “wide-area spray weapons” (shotguns in general).

    The AWB didn’t get traction , and next will be efforts to appeal to the “common sense” of who needs something like a bolt action 30cal, whatever’s used in the next attack that the media latches on to.

    Hunters who think that throwing the confiscation fetishists some red meat by sacrificing semi-autos with Feinsteinian features will satiate the animal are sorely mislead, and simply delaying the agenda and moving it to a “slowly boiling frog phenomenon” at best.

    Yes, Grandpa. They DO want to ban your ol’ goose-stick. Mark my words.

    • If someone wants to take my Mosin, they certainly may — bayonet first.

      AR: Makes little holes.
      AK: Makes big holes.
      Mosin: Makes black holes.

  17. I would have liked to send a link of this to my hunting dad, brother, uncles, & friends but calling them fudds would not help any of us.

    I love the truth about guns but sometimes it seems like alienates too many people.

    • It really does not refer to hunters. I don’t know how this confusion came to be. The term specifically refers to gun owners who are OK with older style guns and manual actions while believing that certain styles of semi-automatic firearms are inappropriate for civilian ownership.

      • The AR design is over half a century old, the AK-47 is older (and you can even get it with wood!).

        Saying ‘fudds don’t like newer designs’ isn’t a useful description any more.

      • Have already gotten enough crap for stating that I’m pretty much liberal on a lot of other issues. And I’ll continue to take heat for it, but whatever. This isn’t The Truth About Gays, as far as I know. I know where I stand on things, and if chairborne rangers want to get e-Tough at me, oh well.

        The 2A crowd needs to expand not contract. This may mean some unexpected bedfellows (not literally.)

        The world actually isn’t binary. There aren’t “just Liberals and Conservatives”, there’s a whole lot inbetween. And if gunfolk want to only include the Rightest of the Right, then I suppose ‘so be it’, but I’m not about to give up that easily. Optics and messaging are important – dare I say, even moreso than swagger.

        • How in 51 years on Gods’ Green, much of it spent on the ‘net, had I not come across “chairborne ranger?”

          I’ll be using that, for double plus certain.

        • The 2A crowd needs to expand not contract. This may mean some unexpected bedfellows (not literally.)

          Hey, so long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, it’s none of my business how you recruit…


  18. What did Alexis use? Graphic I saw on “news” report this morning was of 870 with barrel cut down and wood stock cut off.

    Previous info was he carve nutty message in wood stock. And something to the effect he reassembled his weapon on base.

  19. Hmmm… I carry a (dark) blue pistol, but own no scary black rifles — and I hunt.

    However, I’ll pick up my ancient Коммунистическая железа and defend to the death the right of someone else to own “un fusil noir effrayant.”

    Russ, quasi-Fudd against FUD.

    • Russ, is your French as horrible as your Russian? Because I have no clue what is that ancient “communist gland” you are going to pick up.

      • Железо, rather. It’s my typing that’s rotten, not my Russian. My Russian is only poor, not horrible. 😉


        ‘Course, “Communist gland” has potential for hilarity…

  20. Wow, holy crap, some of these comments are hilariously, depressingly pathetic. Some of the angriest, most vitriolic, most divisive commenters on this website, people who routinely denounce others as being guilty of the highest crime in our nation, who will lash out at fellow non-Fudd gun owners who may occasionally differ in opinion on topics unrelated to the 2nd Amendment suddenly turn into whiney, butthurt crybabies as soon as a relatively minor insult may tangentially, possibly, maybe (not at all) apply to them. That’s freaking rich.


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