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I understand that women have a different perspective on firearms. I know there are cultural and ergonomic issues separating the sexes when it comes to guns. And I believe we should do all we can to promote women gun owners (my promotion of the female form notwithstanding). At the same time I reckon these XX chromosome-based variables aren’t as important as the fact that all American citizens have a natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. Am I wrong to think The People of the Gun should move beyond our breathless wonder at women shooters?

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  1. When I see a woman shooter I think “Oh, hey. Another shooter.”

    The obsession in some corners with rolling out the red carpet for them and treating them like princesses is a little disconcerting.

    So, no, you’re not wrong IMO.

    • #1

      RF, the breathless wonder bit regarding women as a group enmass embracing guns and shooting is long gone and has become boring and stale. It was really much the same dumb old behavioral habit of men to put women up on a pedestal, treat them all like princesses, and worship them.

      • no shit. thank you.

        I can’t stand white knights. I’ll stand just fine on my own and my performance, not my sex, will tell the tale.

        then you can worship me.

        (jk on that last part: I’m not that good – yet)

      • While you are 100% on target – and I find the same thing rubs me the wrong way here – sometimes finding Grace teaches us to find new ways of getting our point across. Yours is as tired and old as the very thing you attack.

        Today’s word of meditation: REFLECTION.

    • Agreed. Also, these women shooters that we deify often produce UNWATCHABLE VIDEOS. Take Erika for example: Sexy, fit, probably more proficient with some firearms than I am. Once that yap opens, I have to hit the mute button. At least two videos I have seen sounded like this:

      CORY: “I love the Glock 17 because it is ergonomic, reliable and accurate. Erika what do you think?”

      ERIKA: “Um… I like, love it and stuff, cause’ its got ergonomics and accuracy and reliability and its also got electrolytes…

  2. I don’t see it, this “breathless wonder at women shooters” anywhere in my day to day life. Everyone here shoots or has shot a gun. I can’t think of a single female that I personally know that has not shot a gun or does not own one.

    So what’s the big deal?

  3. I am not amazed at woman shooters. I am amazed when a woman tells me they want to go shooting on a frequent basis. That is something I like. Being in the south, most everyone has shot a gun once or twice. It is the ones that always want to do it more and more that I become breathless over. But hey, the same thing happens when a pretty lady says she loves football.

  4. Considering nthat women now out number men world-wide and as of last week no longer need men to reproduce… yes, I think we should get over it … before they notice.

      • Nope – just perfected an inexpensive method for using genetic material from two XX eggs to create a viable embryo. Been done in the labs for a while, just worked the science to make it a commecially viable option for them that want it…of course it only produces XX-Girl embryos…

  5. I disagree. The Liberal Left will use this same tactic against us, so we should rally all the female gun owners, the gay gun owners and the black gun owners and return the favor and blow up all the MSM’s assumptions and their labels with those that break the mold. This has been our fault, really.

    • This literally does not matter. They’ll all be dismissed as Uncle Toms, traitors, etc.

      The left does not argue in good faith. They’re howler monkeys wed to insane ideology and identity politics.

      • It’s not really about convincing the hardcore lefties, though. That’s a lost cause for sure. But having a diverse and stereotype-defying group on our side probably does a lot of good when it comes time to convince the fence-sitters and “moderates” that the second amendment is relevant to everyone. The more we can show that The Media’s characterization of gun owners is false, the more those in the middle might question other anti-gun claims made by those same people.

        • I don’t disagree. But our attitude should be “come one, come all” instead of falling all over ourselves to engage in outreach programs to those groups.

        • Michael B, the problem with the, “Come one, come all” approach is that the Media and all our opponents have successfully labeled us ALL as old fat white guys that drink beer and have beards and thump the Bible at every part of life. We’ve not broken this mold and until we start shoving our diversity* (edit) in their face, like they do to us, we will continue to keep this stereotype.

        • Exactly- the point is this is a place for ALL people to seek out the Truth About Guns.

          Lots of independents and middle of the road Dems reading here, lurking, of all colors and sex, I would guess, who may NEVER feel a need to post, just like they might not self-id themselves in their social groups for fear of being libeled as “gun-nuts”.

          But they could tend to be insulted by some of the comments that go over the line, and without trying to be the speech nanny, I’m just hoping we can all stay this side of funny, not the other.

          Theres lots of other places for that on the inner-tubes, but only one TTAG.

          And as TTAG grows more popular and influential, you might expect some disinformatzia, and paid trollery, to taint the culture here…

          Just my two cents.
          And always glad to be told when I am in the wrong, too.

        • Stinkeye, you just pushed my button. The “hardcore lefties” (myself included), are not, for the most part, the people who are anti-gun. It’s the the “moderates” you need to worry about. Soccer moms, to use the stereotype. Relatively affluent, suburban voters. People who may well have voted for Romney, because they want lower taxes (and hey, Romney actually did sign an “Assault Weapons” ban). Seriously, the gun rights movement needs to figure out who its actual enemies are, instead of bashing us “dirty stinking hippies.”

        • No offense intended, NCG, and I probably should have chosen my words better. I’m used to the lefties of the political class (the vast majority of gun-grabbing politicians tend to come from the left) being the “enemy” on the gun rights issue. You’re right, of course: on an individual level, the left/right divide isn’t necessarily a reliable indicator of a person’s position on gun rights.

          I should have said “hardcore anti-gunners”, not “lefties”. Though, personally, I’ve met plenty of “dirty stinking hippies” (I live in Austin) who are very much opposed to individual gun rights.

  6. It’s just a propaganda thing to try and get libs to see the truth. You can’t push a position using the strongly held opinions of white males when, to liberals, white males should constantly be apologetic and yielding due to our perceived “sins” and “priveledge”.

    To approach these audiences it always has to be a woman or minority in the position of strength and authority.

    Yea, I’d like to see an end to our focus on it as well. People should have guns, know how to use them, and carry them every day. All people, no matter their sex or race.

  7. You surprised me with this Robert. After all, you’re the guy that links photos of female Isreali models and soldiers in a lot of your posts. When I see a female shooter at the range or at a trap shoot, etc., I give the same checkout look to see if they are safe that I give every other shooter I’m near to and don’t know. No more, no less… I have never been astonished, breathless or otherwise startled by the appearance of a woman shooter, just because of their gender. Then again, it was my mom that taught me how to shoot (dad was away with his second family, a looooooong story).

  8. As a certified (not certifiable) old guy, I’m not amazed to see women shooters. But the reaction of many men when seeing an attractive woman shooter today is exactly the same as when their great-great-grandfathers first saw Annie Oakley. Grandpa expected to see Tugboat Annie shooting, and shooting well, but Little Miss Sureshot wasn’t just a great shooter, she was also — dare I say it — cute.

    That’s the way it’s going to be until all men turn into metrosexuals in, say, 20 years.

  9. Boobies at the range turn heads. Boobies on a motorcycle turn heads too. Gotta love the boobies.

  10. My local indoor range waives the range fees for the ladies. It saves me 12 bucks when I take the wife. I am not mad about that.

  11. I am seldom rendered more breathless by an attractive woman shooter, than I am a woman who is simply attractive. It’s a “guy thing”, Robert.

    What causes me to “wonder”, is that this is not obvious.

  12. Am I wrong to think The People of the Gun should move beyond our breathless wonder at women shooters?

    I respectfully suggest that you may want to try moving beyond your breathless wonder at women, before asking us to move beyond our breathless wonder at women shooters.

    • Ya. I have always found the constant posting of models as a possible turn-off to any women that might find the blog. I come here to read about guns, not look at pictures of Israeli models.

      • It’s not just a “possible” turn-off. I have two separate experiences with female friends interested in learning more on the topic of firearms asking me about online sources. Recommended TTAG to both of them, and got the same negative feedback about the “T&A” on the site. Very frustrating, because under the surface, this site is an incredible resource. But trying to convince someone new to the topic, looking at it from 10,000 feet, that it’s not just a bunch of guys jerking off over gun porn and hot chicks is a bit of an uphill climb.

        And before someone trots out the “politically correct” accusations, it’s not a case of the two ladies in question being offended, it’s more like they just couldn’t take the site very seriously when half of the front page articles featured links to bikini models.

      • Not that I completely agree with Robert, but since he only posts links to the models, if you don’t want to see them, don’t click on the link.

        • And if you don’t want to read a gun blog with distracting off-topic objectification of women, don’t read TTAG. I like TTAG a lot, but we should recognize that the links do mean that there are female shooters who will seek their gun news and commentary elsewhere.

          I respect TTAG’s right to make that choice, but given that the links don’t add anything to the quality of the site as a gun blog, I don’t think they should be as common.

          I also respect RF, but being frank — the metaphors he uses to squeeze in links to models are about as witty as the headlines in the New York Post.

  13. I don’t see any difference, except the shock of having a woman who wants to go shoot, or hunt or whatever. Beyond that we are equals..

  14. To secure our 2a rights we need women voters. It’s a numbers game really. 2a can be removed from the constitution. There is a process in place that allows this. All it takes is numbers.

    • They won’t use the legitimate process in place. They’ll use “the constitution is a living, breathing document” and “commerce clause” nonsense to render the second meaningless.

      Oh and language manipulation, like always.

      Words have fluid meanings to these people, and if they repeat a lie often enough like a Gregorian chant it suddenly becomes truth to them and the sheeple.

      • MB, with enough numbers on our side we can turn back any attempt they make. In order to do this we OFWGs need to reach out to women and minorities. We’ve moved past the 1940s. Women aren’t going back to the kitchen and minorities aren’t moving to the back of the bus. We either recognise rights for all and welcome all or we lose and our grandkids live with british style gun control or worse.

    • I too think the question reveals more about the interlocutor, than the readers, and it deserves more shared introspection…links to hot Jewish chicks works for me!

      Any woman at the range is automatically more attractive to me, for she is demonstrating courage (if only for defying stereotypes in the progressive mind-set of the US LSM), wisdom (for taking the necessary steps to become self-defense capable), and independence.

      Big boobs are good too. All why I married her, by the way…hi Honey!

  15. I don’t really think in terms of “male” or “female” shooter. The technology removes any and all gender or physical biases when it comes to performance and competition. Yeah, I think we should get over it.

  16. I’ve noticed more and more women getting into the shooting sports. I’m guessing it’s the fastest growning segment in the industry, period. That being said, we need them on our side voting with us!

    Get them to join NRA! Here’s a link with a discount

  17. The woman in this video…is used IMHO. She is splashed in the videos in tight clothes or short shorts to attract viewers. Its their angle if you will. Youtube channels get paid for likes/subcribers/views. If she was fat, old and just plain ugly it would turn viewers away.

    I think its gimmicky at best and to be honest. I will go other places to view the same thing if possible (class, gun reviews etc). Dont get me wrong I think she is cute and whatnot, but I dont like being played….(throw out some T&A to get views). There is a lot of this BS on Internet.

    A woman shooter….is just another shooter to me.

  18. Besides being a massive turn-on… to see my wife shooting, they are just people.

    That being said; We each render our own perspectives in regards to feminine use of projectile emitting hardware based on our social and ideological backgrounds.

    Just keep shooting.

  19. I’m always a little breathless when I see women shooters, starting with my wife. First, they look a lot better than guys which makes them enjoyable to look at, and they usually shoot a lot better than I do.

    • Yes!! Exactly!!! My wife out shoots everyone at the range. She is scarily good with groupings I haven’t seen since being an USAF SP. I have been into Jeeps for a number of years, and guess what, she recently bought a new Jeep a Wrangler Rubicon with all the trimmings. We go to gun shows and jeep rallies together with the same level of fanaticism. And I could go on. Hands down, I have the best wife of all time, someone who is not only a wife but my absolute best buddy. 🙂 I think she deserves to be put on the highest pedestal. Other woman, not so much. 🙂

  20. Respectfully, we haven’t even begun to figure out women shooters. So it is hard to get past something we haven’t even really started.

    This is almost like watching history repeat itself as I watched a similar trend evolve in the motorcycle world about 5-6 years ago. The major manufacturers responded by lowering seat heights and painting bikes pink. That worked about as well as expected.

    I see a similar trend in firearms as men struggle to figure out “What Women Want” and screw it up royally. Mouseguns in .380 painted pink are not in fact what women are looking for. Shaved head, big bearded mall ninjas screaming at them in class is not what they are looking for. Different competitive classes for men and women is not what they’re looking for.

    And each time you see a guy behind the LGS counter telling a woman she needs a full sized 1911 know that we’re taking steps backwards as an industry.

  21. Some guys like women. Some guys like guns. So it isn’t surprising that gun guys like women that like guns.

  22. I think it has something to do with the presence of a double X chromosome holder in an environment that usually has standing-room-only bathrooms, if you catch my drift.

    The same thing happens with female gearheads.

  23. It’s a generational thing. I’m 30, and women shooters of my age and younger are not only common but can outnumber men at certain indoors in my area. People of my generation have had female bosses, played coed sports, etc. We are used to the sexes being equal.

    I also don’t care that the President is black. He’s a terrible President regardless of his skin color, and the whole racial / sexist / ethnic thing will hopefully die off as the older generations do.

    • Female shooters do not outnumber male shooter at any range in any state on any day, unless it’s “ladies night” or some female sponsored event, and even then more men would probably show up.
      Most of us are not use to sexes being equal, no matter how bad you want to believe that.

      WTF does Obama have to do with this conversation? And no, racial tensions, bigotry, racism, gun control advocates, wars and all that bad stuff will not die off with generations.

      When I see a good-looking woman at a range I mark in my head where she is and where she is shooting as to feel safe, and I also mark in my head when the right side of her is pointing my direction so I can take a look.
      We are mostly pigs as men, quit playing pretend.

      • Lars, Target Masters West in Milpitas California. I’m frequently outnumbered by women shooters there who are on their own with their own guns. Add the female employees(yes, women working in the gun related field) and some days it’s quite the girl party.

        I’ve never felt unsafe or threatened by women at the range. The one’s that make me nervous are the “expert” young men who are ignorant and fail to realise it.

  24. People respond to scarcity (real or perceived). Plus men like women.. and men like guns. Of course we are fascinated with a combination. It also probably depends on the region you live in. Is this worthy of a post, or was this just fluff?

  25. Oh, look – the world’s least politically correct blog wants to play nice.

    …or, maybe Mr. Owner is trying to appeal to some Texan females. Either way: drop the act and be your usual crass self, eh? I like it better when you’re not trying on new suits.

  26. The only problem I have with women shooters is that the ones I run into always aim for the testicles. Once we get over that slight issue, it’s peachy.

    Shooting a man in the plums is just not cricket.

  27. RF’s model links don’t bother me. It’s what he likes. So what. I’m a female shooter and the furniture on my ARs are black, and the only static I’ve gotten on the range is whether or not my sig 1911 is a “real 1911” (don’t care,I like it.)

    • My wife’s 1911 is a Colt, so she never got those questions but has come to prefer revolvers because they don’t throw hot brass in her blouse.

  28. Guess this means you’ll have to stop the Ask Kirsten Weiss XYZ articles that show up every other day?

  29. I admit it, I’m an ogler. But I’m 64, so I’m allowed. 😉 But all kidding aside, I find that all other things being equal, I find a woman to be more attractive armed than unarmed. Maybe it has something to do with personal power. And I’ve believed in equality of opportunity and all that since forever – each person is an individual, and that’s pretty much it. When they said, “All men are created equal,” it meant all humans are created equal – “men” was the generic term for either gender before the PC police started mutilating the language.

  30. Anyone that says they look at a woman as a regular shooter is a lair. Firearms have been a male dominated sport and always will be. Most men when they see a woman shooter, particularly a good-looking one, do not look at them like they do a fellow male shooter. We do have more carnal thoughts going on when we see a woman shooting and any man that denies this is a liar or not attracted to women.

    Out of all the shooting ranges in WI and MN I visit regularly while on the road the percentage of female shooters I see is very very very low, less than 5%. So until this sport, hobby, love of ours becomes more female dominated, which it currently is no where near being so, most men including myself will look at woman shooters much differently than a male shooter. It’s just the way it is and Fargo knows this. He is not above the instincts that the heterosexual male humans have. We are animals by nature and we tend to act more animalized when around women,m especially in male dominated activities such as firearms. Kissass

    • I’m gay. I don’t notice female shooters, and I really don’t notice the 50+ year old men.

      So you’re the liar, liar.

    • May be just me, but “Blonde Four” doesn’t seem calculated to honor women.
      Maybe one of them refers to you as “Jelly Paunch Six”, eh?

    • In the piece I explain that my fourth grandchild – a girl – is blonde. It is how I identify her in the story, rather than by the nom de cyber “Blonde Four”.

      I am in fact “Bald Actual” as the erstwhile commander of the unit.

  31. The only problem I have with women at a range is when they dress inappropriately for the range. This includes low-cut tops, flip-flops or open-toe shoes, etc.

    Now, some women might take issue with this. They’re asking “What are you, some sort of Old Testament-pounding puritan who doesn’t like to see any breast exposure?”

    Hardly. I love the female form. Some of God’s best work, IMO.

    I have, however, been on a range where a young female, dressed in a low-cut top and sandals, was shooting a .22LR pistol (a Ruger MkII as I recall) and she got some hot brass into her cleavage.

    OK, that’s inconvenient, and some “white knights” might think it clever to make a funny joke about helping her retrieve the brass. To you twerps, STFU.

    What actually happened wasn’t funny at all: She stepped out of the firing line, jumping up and down, holding the pistol with her weak (left) hand and grabbing at her chest with the other… and in so doing, proceeded to shoot a guy in the next lane in the guts. One little entry hole. No exit.

    Our resident MD’s among our TTAG-AI can guess what happened next (every MD I’ve told this story to has reacted the same way…): the victim was evac’ed by helo to the nearest ER, where he was on the table for a number of hours whilst the MD’s pulled out his innards, inspected them all in detail, then put them back, seeking to close off all the holes.

    Oh, and do I need mention that the local TV news programs had breathless reporting of the incident? Of course not. Was it reported as “endowed blonde shoots man in guts?” No, of course, not. The man was at fault. He was stupid enough to be at a shooting range, where he was shot in the normal course of the day as they seemed to frame the story.

    So: Ladies, I don’t care if you come to the range. I don’t care if you wear pastel shooting gear. I don’t care if you want us guys to take a shower, put on clean clothes, refine our language and then leave you alone.

    I do, however, have a real concern when you women show up to the range in your girlie-girl attire. That’s strike one. If you’re packing a semi-auto, that’s strike two. If it’s a .22LR, that’s strike three. My first considered action upon seeing women dressed like this show up to the range is to pack up and get out. My time is valuable, I bill by the hour, and I don’t have days to spend dealing with getting shot because some young lass with vast tracts of land caught some brass in her décolletage because she wanted to be fashionable instead of practical.

  32. “Basketball was, at one time, pretty much male-dominated…”

    Yep, on boys’ and mens’ teams, that would be pretty much true.

    Yeah… nail salons and Pilates groups. Pretty much female-dominated. Strangely, men are not beating down doors to enforce their rights of inclusion.

    You show me yours, I’ll show you mine.

  33. “I do, however, have a real concern when you women show up to the range in your girlie-girl attire. That’s strike one. If you’re packing a semi-auto, that’s strike two. If it’s a .22LR, that’s strike three. My first considered action upon seeing women dressed like this show up to the range is to pack up and get out. My time is valuable, I bill by the hour,”

    If only I were able to bill you for the time wasted reading your “I am the Center of the Universe” crap. Let’s just call it fifty dollars, because it really wasn’t worth much at all.

    So your pet peeves are women who dress like women, semi-autoloaders, an affordable caliber, and not being able to bill them for all three.? Maybe you should be in therapy to find out if you’ll be happier as a woman. Missy.

    • I’ve probably been on more ranges and seen more potential accidents from women getting brass down their clothing than you have. Matter of fact, because I’ve trained more women and girls than I’m sure you’ve brought into shooting since, oh, 1992 or so, I’m quite sure of my point.

      All of my students have always been instructed about the attire issue. It was a nominal issue before I witnessed the shooting, it was an absolutely mandatory issue afterwards, using the issue as an object lesson that controlling the firearm is #1 on the list.

      As for the issue of semi-auto and .22LR? That’s just showing your ignorance of firearms. Fire a .45 ACP or 9×19 and drop the brass down your shirt.

      Now do the same with a .22LR.

      See which one makes you dance faster and higher. It’ll be the .22LR. It isn’t about any of the issues you have your panties in a wad about. It’s about the facts I’ve observed on the range.

      Want to wear your low-cut dress, William? Then come to class with a revolver.

  34. “Am I wrong to think The People of the Gun should move beyond our breathless wonder at women shooters?”

    well, it’s been 77 comments thus far, presumably all from men.

    So yeah, I’d say that shooting is still very much a male dominated activity.

  35. In fairness to TTAG, I think the univers of things women are interested in is a bit broader than those men are interested in. I have found that my wife is far more interested in the things I like than I am interested in the things she likes.

  36. And to think I just read through 84 comments, including some pointless mouth-breathing vitriol from one of my least favorite TTAG commenters ever, hoping to +1 a comment regarding Erika’s feminine pulchritude only to be disappointed….

    I think female shooters are great. I prefer teaching them vs teaching males because they generally listen better and seem much less compelled to misrepresent their experience with guns.

    However, many aspects of gun culture are NOT female friendly. The LGS experience, especially considering the typical lack of understanding behind the gun counter on how to fit a gun to anyone other than an average-to-large male. Ranges where women get asked if their man will be along soon to accompany them on the range. Competition, in some cases. Gun shows, in many cases.

  37. I have a young daughter. When she’s old enough, I will teach her to shoot. I want her to feel welcome in the community.

    To me that means that she be treated with the normal respect that men with equivalent experience and skill are treated. If there were minimal BS and obnoxious behavior then that would be enough. But the reality is that things like T&A shots of girls with guns in bikinis can make women feel like they are props rather than actors. Thankfully, that’s about as far as it goes on this blog and realistically, it’s tolerable. What would be intolerable, would be things like you see on F’n Wook, which though I admit are often funny, are the epitome of a hostile environment.

    In that setting, going out of your way to be respectful, i.e., soliciting their viewpoints, even when they’re skilled but not as skilled and eloquent Mas Ayoob, is a nice way of saying, “Never mind that jerk in the corner, you are welcome here.”

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