Have a few – OK, a lot of – extra samolians burning a hole in your pocket? Have you always wanted to be able to blast those damned rutting hogs straight to piggy hell, even in the dead of night? Does the lack of post-SHTF 24/7 operational capability keep you up at night? Navigating your way through the night vision technological landscape can be more than a little daunting for the low light noobs amongst us. But ATN‘s putting on a series of free webinars that’ll explain it all and help you avoid making an expensive mistake. Here are the deets . . .
Purchasing a night vision or thermal imaging device can be a daunting choice for an agency or individual. Night vision and thermal devices have their respective attributes for a variety of missions. Whether the goal is surveillance, varmint hunting, or night rescue operations, each of the technologies features certain advantages for various applications. Tom Renn, the ATN Director of Government and OEM Sales, will guide prospective customers through a 30-minute, live webinar broken into a 20-minute learning segment, and plenty of time for questions and answers. The first webinar will give potential customers insight into night vision and thermal imaging technologies, the advantages, disadvantages and applications.
Additional webinars are planned this year including “One Size Does Not Fit All,” a webinar on selecting the appropriate thermal or night vision device and includes an overview of the ATN Interactive Night Vision Catalog. Then bring your questions to the “Night Vision Q&A” webinar, later in the year, when the ATN experts will be on hand to answer any question on night vision or thermal imaging.
Signing up for the “Thermal vs. Night Vision” webinar, or any webinar, is easy and free. Visit theATN website and click the “Scope Out Our Free Webinars & Newsletter!” button. Staying informed on all of ATN’s latest products, newsletter and free webinars are as easy as signing up on the private ATN email list.
Save up for gen 3 NV. Pvs-14a is a good bit of kit for $3k. And you can be as tactical as you want too!!!
Have a gen 3 scope. it’s worth every penny. Couldn’t be happier. And it has a video out plug to record stuff.
Thermal is a bit above my pay grade.
I haven’t looked thru a night vision device since the old starlight scope in the early 70’s. I’m suspecting that the technology has advanced a little since then.
JWM, it’s amazing. I remember the old starlight scopes. My digital 3rd gen works day or night. Would have loved to get thermal, but the price is staggering compared to NV.
Not if you look at the new FLIR Scout P24 or P32. They are on par or cheaper than a PVS-14
I have a FLIR 2X, I love it.
BTW use baggies with frozen water to aid in sighting in
Or hand warmers
Night/Thermal vision is absolutely worthless tech for most of us. I have not come across one instance where I have needed it. Want is a different thing. But for those of us with other hobbies, or not, 3k+ can go toward something that we actually use. I have enough expensive optics I don’t use regularly to go out and buy tech that helps me see during hours when I’m asleep.
I think in the “waste of money” list for firearms items night/thermal vision hits the top of that list.
Your opinion would likely change if you lived in a more rural area where animal predators/pests are more prevalent. Living in a city or suburban environment, I would agree, that night vision is largely a “safe queen” purchase.
I think my folks need SOME kind of NOD, if for no other reason than to augment 24/7 surveillance of our hilltop property, but which model or several models would even address our needs much less budget, I simply have no idea. Naturally I’m more worried about human intruders such as looters than government aerial attack, but it’s pretty difficult for half a dozen adults to defend such a place even if everyone is armed.
The mind boggles. Guess I could go with one of the little $200 models and see where that takes us.
FORTUNATELY….the human eye can see quite well in darkness, provided you have the time to get used to it. I used to be a bit of a rail fan and had a few places where I could park, day or night, while trainspotting. One of them was next to a pasture in a rural area several miles from town. Not only could I see the cattle in the pasture quite well, I could see other critters too, like foxes, dogs, coyotes….
Fire Dept have become big users of handheld thermal imagers. A powerful tool in search for victims (in structures or lost in the open).
Prices have come down a lot in the last 10years and performance improved. Many sizes from tiny screen micros up to feature units. Stop in at your local station and see it they have unit made in the last couple years. And if they have something more than about 5 years old it is obsolete and needs to be replaced. Perhaps you can help them do so.
FLIR has a unit they showed at NRA show last year that is very capable and competitive price ($3000 to fire service). A market disrupter type of item.
I remember the first handheld Thermal Imaging Camera I ever used in the fire department, I could have easily beat someone to death with it. As time went on and the tech advanced, I moved to a department that had helmet mounted TICs. The camera fit on the helmet and was almost palm size and was connected to the screen (also palm size) by a flexible cable that allowed for it to be adjusted to either eye or out of the way. It was just as reliable as the old huge TIC.
From what i understand, we can’t use n.v.for night hunting here in MN. Not even for coyotes. My light was waaaaaay cheaper any ways.
Thanks, Dan, another great tip, and looking forward to more experience from users here at TTAG.
Mojo- ya, same in CA. Pretty strict on use of lights for hunting too.
The laws are confusing, state by state,
and theres even more FUD out there, as this forum points out-
So I’ve done a bit of looking, and reading, while waiting for prices to come down,
and thanks Prairie Patriot and ensitue- for that tip:
That Flir Scout looks very useful for a lot of things- SAR folks looking for lost kid (I volunteered for one effort awhile back, that ended tragically), and once worked for a land manager where another lost kid situation would have made this indispensable- (not just to me but the local cops, who had to wait for Sheriff helo with FLIR to show up 4 hours later…that ended well)
Being a wannabe wild pig hunter, I know the hardest part is finding them, and per the product page this would be handy for scouting, for here in SoCal they are pretty wily- move alnost exclusively at night, and scoot fast and far if they see hunters, so the key is to learn their habits, routes to/from feeding and bedding areas, so you can be prepared to be in place during the short periods of time they are moving in legal shooting time.
More good info at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/FLIR-Scout-240×180-monocular-7-5Hz/product-reviews/B005J2KJFU/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
If you really want to make full use of night vision, you need to also have an IR laser on your rifle. What good is it to see your target if you can’t aim at it?
Very good idea. The m6x from insight is nice. Expensive, but nice.
Phoenix you dont by any chance drive a Pinz?
Every red laser I have ever used is visible with Night Vision Devices. Granted it is eye visible and thus becomes a target on you also but still much more visible with the NVGs at a much farther distance.
You probably want to look at adding a infrared light source/illuminator as well. Night vision works only as well as the ambient light it has to work with. When I would train brand new guys in my unit on the PVS-14 they thought it could do everything. If you go into a room with zero ambient light night vision does not work unless you introduce some form of infrared illumination.
I’ve gone pig hunting at night with NV, thermals, and plain old lights. Obviously, some sort of NV/thermal device gives you a huge advantage, especially on dark and overcast nights.
Start off with disadvantages:
Lights- duh, they have to be on to use them. You only have a couple seconds to turn them on, acquire your pigs, and shoot before they scoot. And you can’t see a damn thing after you turn them off.
NV- Im talking about PVS-7/14 style NV here and Gen3 scopes, not the $200 specials. even with an IR emitter, you can’t see that far at night with unmagnified optics. Couple hundred yards tops depending on the size of the critter, it’s coloring, and the background. With a 6x scope you an shoot across a good size field and can make out the difference between a pig and a deer easily at 4-500 yards in a field. Also, no depth of field with all but the most expensive stuff, and even then it isn’t great.
Thermal- wow, expensive. A scope is close to or more than 10k. Unless you spend close to that on a hand held unit, you’re going to get a slow frame rate. Fine for scanning, but not for walking through the woods. These things suck battery life like no tomorrow, and you also can’t see through glass if your sitting in your truck on a cold night. Worse situational awareness then you think. Thermal pictures are great, but doesn’t trump physics. A pig sitting in tall grass 50 yards in front of you can sit there all night without you knowing it despite 10k worth of FLIR. Also, it works on temperature difference. The closer a pig is to the ground temp, the harder it is to see. Also, most of the “cheap” ones are not water proof.
Lights- cheap, useful for everything. It’s a light!
NV- Probably the cheapest night hunting setup. A monocle and a flashlight/weapon light and go. Upgrade to a head strap or bolt a mount to a cheap helmet and buy an IR laser. Start off with a PVS-14 and you can buy a weapon mount, and tie it into an Aimpoint/EOTech of your choice. NV scopes are expensive, but not nearly as expensive as a thermal scope. No noticable frame rate “lag” like the $3-5k thermals, so you can shoot fast moving pigs and walk without issue using the NV for guidance.
Thermal- when the conditions are good, the view is awesome. Bright white pigs, rabbits, deer, foxes etc compared to darker backgrounds. So much easier to pick out critters far away (bunch of white dots) and through brush (white hot leg sticking out from behind a bush). On really cold days you can see footprints, and other cool stuff, as well as seeing hot breath vapor rise from behind an obstruction.
Just a recommendation or two. Don’t buy middle of the road gen2 NV. It’s a lot more then Gen1, but not that much better. Go cheap or expensive. When your buying expensive, check the tube specs. SNR is everything, and why the “same” Gen3 varies $1k or more. I think I’d start over again with a PVS-14 and use it as a monocle as I stalked, and then mount it on my rifle to shoot. On a dark night from downwind, rooting pigs have no clue you’re there and you can EASILY hangout inside of 50 yards for minutes. Obviously not a good setup for your anti-people activity. Next purchase would be either a small handheld thermal like a FLIR PS-32 if I saved enough, or just a magnification lens for the monocle and an IR flashlight.
Thanks, J. Saved me hours of reading and spending $$$ on the wrong thing.
Welcome, glad to help.
Thats the best advice I’ve seen so far. You saved me a bunch of typing and mentioned a lot that I would have missed.
Basically, if you want night vision you will have to drop the money on it.
Its like buying a combat ready flashlight or a GOOD optic. You arent going to get something for nothing. You WILL have to pay for it.
Nobody said the lifestyle of preparedness was comfortable or cheap.
I just cant wait to see this on the market: http://tnvc.com/shop/itt-dsnvg-anpsq-20/ and f*ck me, I wish I could say more…
Awesome, glad I could help. Also, that optic you posted looks like it would be a ton of fun if I could ever afford it!