“I know a lot of us get a lot of negative attention because they think we are here trying to scare people, and that we are tough with my gun,” Come and Take It marcher Courtney Bohlman told kvue.com. “But in reality, I just don’t want people to feel afraid of guns, because guns are not what’s scary, it’s the people who wield the guns inappropriately, that’s what’s scary.” True but – wouldn’t a couple of people strolling down main street with their firearms, doing what normal people do, be better for normalization? Don’t get me wrong. Open carry marches are extremely important on a number of levels. But I don’t think they reprogram fence straddlers. Am I wrong?
How the hell is this an “Opt in” Free market Idea when CA and NJ are going to require the technology BY LAW?
I think it creates a sense of extreme discomfort for those who aren’t accustomed to guns. The best way I’ve seen to initiate non believers is to take them shooting and demonstrate how safe it is
1000
The thing about an organized march is that an unsuspecting hoplophobic bystander is much less likely to panic and think it is a lone nut with a gun. More likely to recognize that it is a protest. Less likely to get hot and bothered and feel like they or the community is in danger.
open carry is good for gun rights . it combats the irrational fear in those who have never been exposed to them . those who do it should be applauded , they risk harassment and scorn to further our second amendment rights.
The parades work eventually. The process takes years. Not many people showed up to the first March for Life events in the 70’s. Now there are routinely hundreds of thousands who come.
There has been an update concerning this. The CEO of Remington has said that Global Digitals offer to purchase the company is a publicity stunt. http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/03/remington_outdoor_ceo_in_memo.html
I think marches can do the opposite, you’re gathering many like-minded people in a group with others looking on. It can show the level of support and grant awareness on the issue, but I don’t think it helps to normalize the practice. There could be a march on the issue of (for or against) abortion, illegal aliens, environmental protection polices, or gay marriage but it won’t really influence me. Seeing people in a normal atmosphere helps normalize things, conversation one-on-one helps normalize things, a mob of people with a different view does not necessarily help normalize things. It may get people to stop and think once they see how many people support the cause, though.
The problem we face with normalization is that people have no experience and want no experience with firearms. If I see someone carrying I would be interested in talking to them about what they’re carrying, how they like it, how long they’ve been shooting, and all kinds of things. For outsiders they only see the gun and are stricken with fear because to most only criminals have guns or they think it’s an off-duty cop. I don’t know when or where the idea “good citizens don’t have guns” came from, but it’s a terribly unamerican concept.
I agree on both counts.
Open carry marches serve their purpose. Peaceful gatherings have always been an effective way of affecting change in government. They get the headlines and pols love headlines.
Open carry by only a few individuals going about their normal day-to-day business would do more to convert fence straddlers. The non politicians among us, the ones whose hearts and minds we need to win, don’t care about headlines. They care about their own emotions. And being able to say “that guy ain’t so bad” in regards to an individual open carrier is more effective in that realm.
Greetings: I am one of two reviled “libtards” that regularly visit here. I always learn something and get a laugh or two. I voted green in the last general election, I support gay marriage, I believe in a womans right to decide what happens to her body, I believe that climate change and evolution are scientific fact not theory or some quaint idea, I believe that Fox news is the biggest collection of idiots occupying one space on the planet, I believe President Obama should be in Leavenworth making gravel and that he should be proceeded there by Bush and Cheney. I could go on but you get the picture. I just locked up my Benelli 12/semiauto and am heading out the door strapped with a Walther PPQ-M2 in a TTgunleather IWB held up with a Beltman belt. It is quite a nice gun and am considering a Walther PPS for t-shirt weather. Everyone have a nice day.
As a fairly conservative member of this particular group, I would like to say that I wish the term “libtard” would go away.
True, I thought it was funny at first…after years of seeing myself referred to as “republipuke” and the like by people who have never met me. But, after about three times, terms like that (from either side) just look mighty adolescent.
I honestly cannot remember if I ever used the term, but if I did, I’d regret it now. I myself don’t care for using cliche terms.
Only other point…”I believe that climate change and evolution are scientific fact not theory or some quaint idea”
Not to debate the merits of these ideas one way or another but … ‘belief’ does not make something true. This is part of the problem we constantly fight with the gun-grabbers; they BELIEVE guns are bad | evil | sentient, and no amount of data seems to sway them away from that dogma.
I got to hold a PPQ recently and really liked the feel of it. Did not get to shoot it, though.
“I don’t understand it. Therefore laws should be passed against it.”
Imagine what he’ll want to do to emerging topics in particle physics and genomics.
I don’t think these gatherings are supposed to reprogram any fence-sitters. The show is more for the police and the politicians. Can’t say I’ve ever seen a carrying marcher maced and hauled off in quick cuffs. Police love to whomp the Occupy types and spray the college students. They are uncharacteristically polite to the armed marchers. And the politicians get to see just how many folks there are who are willing to stand together and shout “hell no!” while carrying their rifles.
Reprograming the fence-sitters is best done my the average Joe/Jane just carrying about their day and not drawing attention to it. It’ll also result in better police training as it has here in NH. Several cities with transplant hoplophobes and Massholes have had to retrain their police to the fact that open-carry is perfectly legal in NH and carriers are not to be stopped, questioned or otherwise harassed simply because they are carrying.
Normal behavior being reinforced through consistent application of said behavior. Not highlighted for grandstanding and media attention.
So they both have their own purposes.
I think open carry marches do more harm than good.
As other comments have pointed out, it make pro-gun people look like a bunch of nuts.
You want a better solution to normalize gun ownership? … have a meeting of senior citizens, handicap and gays who conceal carry.
Show doctors, lawyers, accountants, legislators and moms who conceal carry.
When you get a bunch of guys in cammo walking around with AR-15’s slung on their backs, they promote the notion that pro-gun people are ‘gun nuts’.
Instead, we need to promote the people who are normal every-day people who also happen to be CPL holders and pro-gun.
Once again, we see that the public employees don’t like recognizing the rights of those who pay their plush benefits and paychecks.
Here’s a massive clue for public employees: If you don’t like taking orders from the public (via the legislature or other elected officials), quit the public sector and go get a job in the private sector.
Everywhere, in every state, public employees have forgotten the Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules. The taxpayers are waking up to the fact that they’re being bled dry by public employees, and now the Golden Rule is about to be enforced in many states/cities/towns on many issues. Campus carry is just one of those many issues. In several years, many academics will quit whining about campus carry and they’ll be happy to have any job at all. The educational sector in the US is headed for a great contraction as their unsustainable spending patterns meet their destiny in financial reality.
Reading of public employees whining and crying about what the public is telling them to do has become one of my favorite hobbies in my advancing years.
To quote South Park: “MMmmm! Yummy tears of unfathomable sadness, mmmmmm, yeeees!”
His message is so self-centered, you wonder how he ever manages to focus on the kiddies kicking soccer balls instead of himself. *I* don’t see the need for a gun, so why should anybody else? *I* don’t feel threatened, and that’s really all that matters. I think the very first comment here says it all: this dude is no deep thinker. I can’t imagine taking him seriously on any subject.
Read up on this, comrade.
http://www.russianrevolvers.com/TargetNagants.html
There you can see the nifty “bullet under the mainspring” which unsurprisingly involves a bullet under the mainspring to reduce trigger pull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7YjV4m1VsA
ANd this guy who calls himself TheNagantMan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPrQDzbD47A
He likes the things and makes detailed vids about them. Hope it helps.
You should carry that revolver to the next SXSW. Shannon would approve.
I don’t see it normalizing open carry anymore than any other march normalizes what they’re marching for. That is to say, little to none.
That is a pretty awesome waste of time. I like it.
I bought a Davis P380 about 20 Years ago, i have put 50 rounds through it with no problems. but im scared of it now because of the problems with the slide cracking or breaking, is the cobra ca380 slide any better and will it fits on the davis P380. i love the little thing for a cheapo, and i also have a taurus pt780 witch i really like,
It would seem the ATF seized all of EP Armory’s lowers. I sent them an e-mail asking about the raid, and got this auto response:
All EP80’s (polymer) are currently out of stock and not available for order until further notice.
If your order included an EP80 and was placed between 3/6/2014 – 3/9/2014 your order will be cancelled and the money will be refunded to you.
Here is the thing, I’m avid gun owner and i conceal carry but ill be dead honest…90% of situations that arise where i “can” use my gun i probably won’t….Alot of gun owners fail to realize the consequences of actually shooting someone..Even though with laws like “Stand your ground” defends firearm use for self defense, the actual liability and cost of hiring a lawyer and dealing with court issues is enough for me to not want to shoot someone unless i absolutely have to…TO be honest if I’m getting robbed i will probably let the bad guy take w/e he wants because shooting someone is “legally” a pain in the ass, I rather loose material things than to take a life and deal with that shit storm..Sure Zimmerman got away with it but his life is ruined in a different way. …Unless I’m in a situation where someone wants to “kill” me, and not just rob or beat me up (I welcome a good fight), i probably will not use my gun…When i Conceal Carry i actually carry non lethals like a taser or pepper spray, for that reason when violence escalates i have more options other than just “kill”…sometimes u need to disable someone and just terminate him….My 2cents…
Normalization means that you have made the sight of guns “usual and customary.” Marchs don’t do that because they are special events. Eventually people will get used to the marches as they see that people with guns aren’t bug eyed monsters. That’s a good thing but it doesn’t make the bearing (display) of firearms “usual and customary.” For that to happen people have to observe law abiding citizens going about their daily business and when crime drops because of the presence of obviously armed law abiding citizens all but the most dedicated gun grabbers will accept it.
I am also agree with people who don’t think the open carrying of an AR or any rifle in an Urban/suburban environment as normal order of business are making us any firends. I understand the plight of those who live in the faux gun owner’s paradise of the Texas Republic who can only exercise their right to carry with a long gun but it will be the open carrying of hand guns that will make open carry “usual and customary.”
I agree in the with the thought process that goes with an open carry march, but working with the fence straddlers by taking them shooting is better.
Also, I think that if you conceal carry, and just go about your day in a completely normal way, when people find out you own firearms they’ll realize that fun people aren’t just a bunch of wackadoos.
On a completely unrelated note, what defines normal anyway
I’ll give you the example of my home state Michigan. Open Carry has always been legal(well, in the sense there were never nor are there now laws against it…either handgun or rifle). You didn’t see it much until Open Carry advocates started doing things like this probably 10 years ago. After some of these marches, lawsuits against Cities/Counties whose police arrested/harassed open carries(and lost)…it’s pretty normalized now. Not saying you see if often like in Arizona but all the local govts/police know it’s legal and rarely if ever stop or harass people who do it. There’s no news stories, etc like there was in the beginning of the movement ten years ago…no calls to make it illegal. So yes, I’d say that Open Carry activism has helped normalize it.
Looks like a couple upstanding operators operating in crown-vic operations to me!
[Putting everything together we get about 535 students allowed to carry.]
This is close to a common error I try to correct with anti-guns-on-campus types. “Campus carry” does not equal “student carry.” The administration, faculty, and staff also qualify. Add to that to the typical age 21 minimum and today’s older-than-average students and the median age of CHLs on campus will be up in the middle.
I see this and I read “Drink your Ovaltine.” I don’t know if this is a product placement, or the hijacking of a solidarity movement by opportunists. Either way, shame on them for submitting this, and on TTAG for posting it.
Self reliance? All well and good if you’re physically and mentally capable of taking care of yourself. We can argue whether or not the police are militarised. But we cannot argue that we need cops. We do. There will always be those in our society that need the help of outsiders,
We just had an active shooter what if post. How many POTG said they would unass the place or their guns were only for their protection? No, we need cops.
I wonder how many of those I’ll save my own ass commenters are also anti cop?
I’m not the slightest bit anti-cop. Moving away from an active shooter if he has a carbine and I have a pistol, with a starting range of more than fifty feet, is just sensible. The LEO’s will close on an active shooter who has a long gun only when holding a carbine or shotgun. At classroom or small-store distances of course CCW’s would respond with fire.
People are very tired of PD’s and their unions being reluctant to fire bad actors. And they are extremely reluctant. I know it. You know it. And if you’d put up a poster like the one above forty years ago, you’d have received comments saying you’d mistakenly put up an army photo, not one of cops.
Life in America before we had SWAT teams busting into the wrong houses, gunning down Fido and grandpa and getting away with it was pure hell.
How did we ever survive as a civilization? It was anarchy, I tells ya!
Or, you know, men used to not be little pansies and took care of problems in their communities. When you give that power up to a paranoid unaccountable class of Walter Mitty bully boys bad things are gonna happen.
I’d rather have spent my tax money used on their gear – for MY gear. And I’d be a more thrifty shopper. If the money don’t get taxed by force out of my wallet, then it would STAY in my wallet.
All that gear just to shoot one dog , talk about overkill.
As a former LEO, I am not anti-cop. I tend to prefer the ones that took an oath, it meant something to them, and they intend to live up to that promise.
Kinda like these guys: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/
What we have now is trending away from Law Enforcement and toward “idea enforcement.” Too many ideologies are becoming law (or not, in some cases), and when the cops are not standing a line between legislative abuse and their citizen neighbors, THOSE are the cops to whom I feel a little “anti.”
What if the Policeman is a crackhead?
I’d really like to give that CCP a try. I liked the size of the PPS, but hated, hated, hated the ergonomics of the grip.
“Don’t Like Cops?”
Wonder why? I’d rather deal with a crackhead than a trigger-happy, rights-crushing Gestapo. I see more up-armored thugs than actual uniformed officers nowadays. They are the problem. Strip them of all their military shit, put them back in uniforms & interacting with the community & the attitudes on both sides will change. As it is, cops deserve every bit of disdain that comes their way.
Draw and quarter em
THIS is exactly why NOBODY should be denied the right defend themselves with a firearm with whatever magazine capacity they so desire. This story also completely destroys the gun control advocates argument that “home intruders are just looking for stuff to steal and will run away as soon as they realize someone is home. No need to shoot them.” Absolutely ridiculous! I’d like to see Shannon Watts et al explain how gun control kept this family safer.
Only 3 perps carried out the actual home invasion. The others are charged with conspiracy and accessory after.
The comments on the Q’s trigger are all true! I have a 1st gen PPQ and it has the best trigger of any polymer handgun i have ever fired. Combined with what feels like a 2mm reset… center mass double tabs are just afterthoughts!
I not only believe in the death penalty, I believe in a very slow, degrading, death penalty in cases like this. A strong, clear, visual message must be sent that if you are committing crimes that shows no conscience or regard for humanity then your execution, preferably at the hands of one of the victims or their kin, will follow the path that YOU chose for your prey. A fire ant hill would do nicely.
As per RF, Home carry people, home carry.
Gentlemen, please! As supposed staunch supporters of the Second Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights are we so ready to disregard the Eighth Amendment: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”
As heinous as these sorts of crimes appear to us, do we dare take the stance of the Anti-2A crowd that our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected rights are subject to revision by the people or the government on a whim?
We either support the entire Bill of Rights or we agree with the anti-Constitutionalists that these amendments do not in fact mean exactly what they say.
We stand for all or we stand for nothing.
Tell them we didn’t want them to think we were being sneaky and deceptive by hiding our rifles at home.
No. Like it or not, firearms carried openly (especially rifles) in public will never be looked upon as normal.
I thought 2013 was going to be an interesting year, and indeed it was, 2014 is not disappointing my expectations of weirdness.
Can we stop pretending that Wendy Davis is pro-gun?
how come everytime i try to go on a website that shows how some of the government people act, that website freezes? no other websites i have problems with…..its frustrating and making me think someones trying to keep me in the dark
He may get my vote. I have less to disagree with him at this point than the NRA as a whole. I am neutral on the open carry for purpose of a reaction. I have seen it be confrontational and educational. I have yet to see evidence of it helping or hurting gun rights. It isn’t something I want to do but I have no issue with someone that does. See how that works? Kind of like saying if you don’t like guns then don’t own one but quit trying to ban them.
“Coprophage”
Word of the day
Agreed. At the very least the registry need to have a sliding timeline with a 20 year delay at most – so I should be able to buy guys from 1994 and earlier, for instance.
Of course my preference is the whole NFA/Hughes Amendment go away.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/petition-congress-and-support-repeal-hughes-amendment-firearm-owners-protection-act-1986/7MWlg75Z
I carry AIWB, so I am STRONGLY incented to holster slowly and carefully. I’m not in any hurry to find out if I can self-treat a femoral artery bleed with a tourniquet in time to call 911.
Also, hammer-fired guns are a tremendous comfort when holstering. I thumb-ride that hammer all the way into the holster.
It does not surprise me that Scotty was the one who got it right. His name comes up among folks who themselves are top-notch trainers as being one of the best in the business.
You know what a bossy person is? Someone demanding you submit to their authority and throws out orders when they’ve done absolutely jack **** to earn your respect. Earn my respect, show you know what you’re talking about and lead. Don’t demand.
You ban that word and I’ll start using b****y and c***y, more accurate descriptors anyway.
“Good shoot!”
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/03/dashcam-video-sheds-light-on-cop.html
The man was reaching FOR HIS CAN. All you cop-excusers owe this man an APOLOGY! The cop freaked out, and shot a man who was REACHING FOR HIS CANE!
The man was reaching FOR HIS CAN.
Lesson learned: keep your hands off your can when the cops are around. They hate it when you reach for your can. You could have drugs hidden in your can and they would have to order a forensic colonoscopy on your can.
Although I can tell you that a colonoscopy is no biggy, but the preparation is a royal pain in the can.
Yes us motorcyclists do love freedom. So do those of us with disabilities, and mentally ill.
Pretty sure Ms. Watts’s backyard has plenty of miles already put on it by her leash holder Lord Bloomberg.