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TTAG tipster Pascal emailed us an story linking U.S. immigration policy with gun control: Migrant politician Torres reflects shape of things to come for gun owners. “The take away is simple,” Pascal opines. “Step 1) Make all the illegal immigrates either citizens or eligible to vote; Step 2) Since Latinos vote Democrat as a block 70% of the time, ram rod future gun control via this new voting block. If anyone doesn’t believe all these illegal aliens and what Obama has done is nothing more than to solidify Democrats in politics for as far as the eye can see, then you have been on another planet because this article shows what the plan will be. Backdoor gun control — literally!” Hopefully not too literally. Anyway, true story?

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  1. but but the Constitution is designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority, right? BWHAHAHAHAHA!

    • That’s the punchline of this “great experiment.”
      No matter what a minority will always be trampled by a majority. No document can prevent that. The best any minority can do is bite, scratch, kick and punch when that majority comes knocking.

      There is absolutely nothing stopping a majority from shredding any documents, grabbing anyone it wants to off the street, locking up anyone it wants to, imposing involuntary servitude on anyone it wants to or even walking right up to you on the street and putting a bullet through your head.

      Every last one of us is a bureaucratic footnote. Maybe some number or symbol referencing you would exist at the bottom of a spreadsheet somewhere.

      Tomorrow morning a fed can blast you in the street in front of 100 witnesses and some paperwork would get filed while your family makes burial arrangements.

      The majority is tyranny.

    • The constitution has legal steps built into it to allow it’s change. All it takes is a majority. Get 35 states behind you and you can eliminate 2a completely from the constitution. Legally.

      I’m an ofwg. I’ve been saying for years we need to reach out to all. Race, gender, pro choice, pro life… doesn’t matter. If we mean to keep our 2a rights we need to meet these folks in the middle. White privilege is a thing of the past and it ain’t coming back.

      • it doesn’t have anything to do with “white privilege”. I don’t have a problem with changing the Constitution. That is the right of the governed. What I despise is using fantasy opinions and made up rationalizations to make the Constitution out to be something that it is not.

        If the Constitution allows “equal protections” under the law to the LBGT community to marry, than it damn well better protect gun owners as well.

        Until the Constitution is changed.

      • “If we mean to keep our 2a rights we need to meet these folks in the middle”

        Reaching out is all well and good but compromising your beliefs in the vain hope that certain ethnic groups will see the light is futile and foolish. Our opponents see compromise as weakness and it only intensifies their contempt for us and what we believe. Never, ever compromise your fundamental values and ideals. Nothing good comes of that.

        • Agree, but you can apply this to other topics. Either you are a citizen endowed with individual rights with the government as a servant; or a subservient slave with the state as the sovereign master.

  2. Would be a non issue if the fed would be bound by the Constitution. The body of law infringing on the 2A is already extensive, and not even remotely legal. If we had enough elected representatives of any quality across the board, the popular vote could never erode our rights. But the reality is, this presents a very real danger to the future of America.

    • I agree largely with your observations and conclusions Wood.

      However, I want to add something that is ginormously important: the mistake that we are all making is counting on someone else — the ever elusive “honorable” politician (a.k.a. a “statesman”) — to fix the problem.

      As long as we keep hoping or expecting someone else to fix the problem, it will never go away. We the People have to fix this problem. It is obvious that potential solutions such as demonstrations, lobbying politicians, voting, and lawsuits has not worked. The real question that we should be debating is figuring out what will work.

    • I’m afraid that’s probably a pipe dream. The people most attracted to politics are usually terrible people.

  3. Yes, I believe this is 1000% accurate.

    The population trend is definitely on the decline for the demographic that votes for conservative politicians. The population trend is definitely increasing rapidly for the demographic that votes for Progressive politicians.

    There are two key variables, however, when trying to predict what will happen with respect to election of politicians who will push gun control:
    (1) What percentage of conservative vs. liberal voting bases will actually vote?
    (2) What percentage of liberal voters will demand that Progressive politicians strengthen our right to keep and bear arms?

    The implications of (2) cannot be overlooked. Former Colorado State Senator Giron from the Pueblo district enjoyed a huge margin of victory at her initial election — only to have tons of Democrats toss her to the curb at her recall election. And the same thing happened at the midterm Congressional elections of 1994 after the Clinton assault weapons ban. There is a reason that people call gun control the third rail of politics — it tends to zap even Democrats in office in districts with a large Democrat voting majority.

    • She got tossed to the curb for being an extremist la-la land single minded progressive who fully embraced all the unrealistic hand wringing positions of the far left without any legitimate grounding in reality. There are still a good many liberals out there who can think logically, despite philosophical differences with conservative capitalists. As is evident in Giron’s case, some of them like their guns.

    • The only problem being that it is WRONG. Perhaps lack of involvement in grassroots political party activity

      The Republican Party overlords wet their panties when a Conservatives stands up and runs for office. These RINOs believe the bilge promulgated by the chattering political consultant (lavishly paid) class and echoed (but not followed) by the libtard Dems.

      The prime directive for these RINOs being “anything to win” including talking, and acting, as socialist progressive as any dem. The centerpiece to successfully obtaining this goal then being to win the “undecided” vote. The theory being that register “base” lib dems and Republicans approx. equal numbers and the balance of the votes being spineless “undecided”/”undeclared” that can be bought/swayed thru TV commercials and shallow glib pretty boy candidates (see Obuma).

      Problem with theory (gravytrain for the political consultants) is that there are few actually no opinion types in the vast “undecided”. And the growth in the “undecided” are conservatives fed up with the RINOs (or both/all parties). The RINOs manufacture RINO astroturf candidates to appeal to these voters who are repulsed by the candidates and stay home/don’t vote. The libtard progressive dem (who has their special interests voting blocks loosely melded together wins).

      Where a Conservative enters a primary race the RINO will do EVERYTHING to destroy him including alliances with libtard dems. All to advance their nonsensical election theory. The central problem is the Rep Party is OWNED by the East coast/big city RINOs who have no clue what the actual base of the party is. The BASE is the larger part of your voting block and the group you can count of to vote for you. The RINOs think it is like them. Slightly more Conservative that the Dem but OK with big central gov’t (if controlled by the “right” people/elites) but socially open (no American exceptionalism). If you add up the “Conservatives” in the Rep party (approx. 1/2) and the Conservatives in the “undecided” you have a base that WAY outnumbers the libtard dem base. I’d call it as 50/30. 20% swing. Perhaps even a bit worse for the dems. And Conservatives VOTE. IF they have a candidate. But they only vote once per election and only before death.

      Put up actual Conservative Rep candidates and the Rep party wins. In the Obuma climate today Rep take 2/3 of the undecided and get a landslide. Put up RINOs and the 1/3 of Rep Conservatives stay home and most of the undecided Conservatives stay home.

      On the illegals. Deport them. Don’t legitimized them by sucking on the dem special interest group politics. And yes the Reason the dems/Obuma what these POS in the US is so the morons will vote dem. Why do they need more voters? Because they are really not that strong and FEAR the Rep party ever figuring it out.

      • Amidst tossing around “RINO” and “Actual Conservatives”, in a long and rambling post, you seem to have neglected to define what you meant by those terms. Are you speaking in some kind of code? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink? I think an “actual conservative” is one who wishes to shrink the power and size of government, preferably including elimination of entire departments, and I could use the Dept of Education as an immediate target. This would decrease the cost of govt, and should include reducing taxes on those who pay taxes, and increasing taxes on those who do not currently pay any. In order to maximize approval from thinking people, we need candidates who will under no circumstances even mention religious persecution of anyone, because of abortion, prayer in schools, church attendance or anything else, other than to say no branch of government will be involved, nor fund, such activities. I get the impression you mean something else, and are accustomed to hiding your actual meaning, couching it in tricky wording.

  4. The fundamental change we were promised. This country is already dead, it’s now in the process of falling down. Apparently the old population was too attached to it’s Constitution, traditions, and rights and had to be replaced with people with no taste for freedom or a self directed life. Thanks all you fools who voted for this traitorous democrat party.

    • I agree with your sentiments. However, you forgot to drop the other shoe. The whole system is corrupt. Democrats AND Republicans. They are all in it for three reasons: Money, Power, and Control.

      The ones to blame…..American citizens.

      Lazy, ignorant, stupid.

      Few paid attention, studied the facts, stood up to politicians and bureaucrats. Those few were outvoted.

      • They also took the bait: religion, gays, abortion, welfare, wars, etc. These are all distractions from the REAL issue: Liberty. Both the Ds and Rs in office work toward one goal: power. That power comes at the price of our liberty. While conservatives are busy thumping their bibles and liberals are busy throwing away tax money, our basic freedoms slip further and further away.

        • My bad.
          The R’s and the D’s are the same booze from different bottles. Either party would let the country burn to the ground if they were assured of ruling over the ash heap. I believe this to be the root of despair in the USA as there is no viable political party to turn to for sane, limited government. The snake on the Gadsden Flag is evolving into a constrictor that is squeezing the freedoms and liberties out of our lives.

  5. If the NRA isn’t inclusive of everyone who values the RKBA then they are surrendering their biggest advantage. RKBA is arguably of higher necessity to those of more humble means who can’t use their wealth to outsource their personal responsibilities to security contractors, who can’t pull up and leave the neighborhood if things get bad, and who politicians don’t care about beyond bribing them to vote.

    • I must’ve missed the “Whites Only” sign at the last NRA convention. What, EXACTLY, is the NRA doing to be not inclusive?

      There’s an entire power structure arrayed against them, maliciously defining and defaming them, on a daily basis. It’s pretty tough to overcome that negative PR barrage, but the NRA is out there fighting every day.

      It’s way past time that we quit blaming institutions for being not inclusive or not receptive or not affirmatively acting or being insufficiently open armed, or whatever euphemism for coddling you prefer, and start asking individuals themselves what their problem is and why they won’t get involved to protect their own rights.

      Minorities in the past would march in peaceful protest and make their voices heard. Minorities today either take to the streets to riot, or else sit around waiting for an engraved invitation and chauffeured limousine to pick them up and take them to the protest to watch others work.

      • The NRA is doing a lot more in the past two years to show their inclusiveness than before. They making an extra effort in this area to refute the propaganda and smear campaigns against them that would claim they aren’t. They know it is a winning strategy. No one claims that there are “whites only” signs at NRA conventions. Nothing to be bent out of shape about.

  6. Look at the pioneering group that proved this concept correct: The large influx of European Jews 100 years ago.

    The concept of American liberty was the brainchild of white Protestant males informed by the philosophers of the Scottish Enlightenment.

    Every other culture group in the world has failed to replicate or even approximate the vision of the Founders. Catholic and middle-eastern religious cultures have no history or even concept of individual liberty. It isn’t limited to the right to keep and bear arms – things such as freedom of association, freedom of religion, freedom of speech are alien concepts to these other cultures.

    • The Jew’s again? That’s older and more tired than the race card. The only people that try to paint with a brush that broad is the KKK or the NAACP..

      • The statistics of Jews and RKBA comport with the above estimates for Hispanic voting patterns.

        Three to four generations after the wave of Jewish immigration to the US, they’re completely assimilated into the US, yet they don’t support the RKBA in large numbers. I’d say that 70% of Jews are, even today, indifferent or hostile to the RKBA, and are beholden to the Democratic party on most all other issues as well.

        Show me where I’m wrong. Jews are the prototypical immigration bloc captured by the Democrats and the 20th century left-wing in the US.

        • I’m reminded of former NYC Mayor Ed Koch’s quote: “NYC Jews live like Episcopalians but vote like Puerto Ricans.” Since he was Jewish, he probably understands the thing better than I do.

          Overall I see antipathy toward the 2Am as most widespread among self-perceived minorities in urban areas. The reasons are diverse, but they each seem to think it is easier to own government and control their police than it is to dream of staving off the majority armed with guns. I am quite sure this is a common Jewish perception, a legacy of the immigrant years, notwithstanding that other legacy, Jewish mobsters.

          The saving grace of current trends is this, that government state and local debt means few areas can afford adequate policing. The argument in favor of owning firearms for home/personal defense is growing, and I see that reality even among suburban Jewish people to some extent. I live in a set of suburbs that has many Jewish residents. Though our police force is quite good, and more than adequate in numbers, the city just a few miles away produces a mass of violent criminals who periodically brave our low-crime area in hopes of easy gold and other jewelry. Increasingly they are met with both armed residents and very responsive police: both are necessary to discourage crime-tourists.

          As for Hispanic voters, the need is to provide an understanding of the 2nd amendment in its “protection from armed tyranny and criminals” aspects. The more successful and virtuous members will respond to the concepts if presented in terms of Latino history, not so much if we try to explain the U.S. colonial political mind and enlightenment philosophy. The problem of cartel crime in Mexico should provide a teachable moment, context. The same goes for posing the 2nd am as a strong value to central americans familiar with their form of gangs.

        • I’ve read that the young Indians, Chinese, and other Asians, are also Democrats to an overwhelming degree. But then, the percentage of whites in the US isn’t going up, so the only hope is to attract some other groups. Hispanics are very numerous, and if you look at Mexico, historically they did have a strong tradition of keeping and bearing arms, so if one could somehow sever being pro-gun from not being a Democrat, perhaps one can make more progress among Hispanics. I am probably dreaming, but gun ownerhsip in the US seems doomed in the long run otherwise.

    • English Catholics wrote the Magna Carta. French Catholic philosophers came up with much of the modern libertarian philosophy (does Frédéric Bastiat sound familiar?). Switzerland, a country with perhaps the best defenses against centralized government (and where every male adult gets a free gun and free ammo!), has a large Catholic population. Irish Catholics have a strong tradition of fighting for individual rights against Protestant tyrants.

      • All true. It’s also true that Irish Catholics in particular, and Catholics in general, are at the forefront of the anti-2A movement. I have no idea why.

        • The Catholic Church’s outlook is basically socialist, or at the very least, re-distributionist in nature. They’re also hostile to the idea of individual rights that are superior to the powers of the Church in daily life.

          The Irish have been effectively under someone else’s thumb as a culture for hundreds of years, and denied their rights by the English after 1681. Much as in the Highland Clearances in Scotland, they were denied the right to own arms and they lost touch with the right to own and bear arms. They were denied the right to vote in their own country for quite a while, then were allowed to vote, but not run for office. By the time of the Famine emigration, they had been out of touch with bearing arms for at least four generations. By the early/mid 1800’s, there was a strain of political thought in Ireland looking at the French Revolution for inspiration, rather than the American Revolution. The mentality of the French Revolution views individual rights as derived from the government. No government likes an armed populace. The American Revolution’s ideals of individual rights is an aberration in human history.

        • “The Irish have been effectively under someone else’s thumb as a culture for hundreds of years, and denied their rights by the English after 1681 . . .”

          Except for the Scots-Irish who settled in the southern US. Red-necks all, we tend to be a stiff-necked bunch who doesn’t like authority, doesn’t care much for class-distinctions, is intensely loyal to our kin, and generally learned about guns about the same time we could hold one.

        • The Irish out of the big cities ( Chicago) and the BosWash corridor who are Far and Away tend to value gun rights a bit more than their more urban sophisticated Irish ghetto brethren.

    • And don’t forget “American liberty” didn’t mean much unless you were a white male protestant until people other than white male protestants began to assert themselves in America beginning in the late 19th century.

      • And the reason for that lays in the history of how Protestants had been treated in Europe following the Reformation. What went around came around when Catholics came to the US in the 19th century.

        • Your point has truth, but the brush is too broad. Protestants fared quite well in large parts of Europe during the reformation, and they did their share of Catholic bashing then, just as American Protestants did during the first wave of Catholic immigration to the U.S.

          The reasons for the gradual realization of the promise of American liberty found in the Declaration and Bill of Rights that occurred just before and following the Civil War and continued through the 1960s are many and varied. The reasons certainly include the immigration waves of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

          On the whole, immigration to the U.S. has historically been a force for the expansion of liberty, not its restriction. Whether that trend will continue in the future is unknown. But there is certainly no historical basis for arguing immigration equals restricted liberty.

        • In some areas of Europe during the later phases of the Reformation, yes, Protestants did OK.

          In the time close after Luther nailed his complaint to the church door… hundreds of thousands died in wars and battles in Germany. This was the period of the “Peasant’s Revolt” and people paid a heavy price for going up against the Church-santioned aristocracy – by the 100’s of thousands. The Church wasn’t having this “reformation” business so easily.

          This was followed by a small period of peace… And then came a little dust-up called “The 30 Years War.”

          It got a bit more involved than a family feud… with millions killed, including civilian non-combatants.

          When one studies the Reformation in detail, there’s no doubt of a reason why Protestants didn’t like Catholics and wanted to be as far away as possible from the influence of the Catholic Church.

  7. Always thought politics would become easier as I get older, however on the current path it is, the beginning of the end. Lets just give in to both political parties to what they want, so they can accelerate the burning of the Constitution and remove liberty. End changing happy to glad, the circle talk, just go to work, give up your coin and submit to a ruling bureaucratic class.

    • mk10108,

      Politics is getting harder because the politicians and bureaucrats in office who plunder our nation never pay any personal penalties — in fact they often reap rewards!

      If we want real change, we have to change the penalty/reward equation.

  8. I guess its the NRA’s fault that the new, undocumented border jumpers don’t have the collective IQ of a sea turtle.

    • And then it’s the NRA’s fault that public school classrooms are filled with left-wing indoctrination and anti-gun hysteria, right?

      • Precisely. Hey, I have an idea how the NRA can attract border jumpers to the cause — give them all kinds of free stuff and pay them to join. It works for the Democrats.

        • Well, they could give away free guns… that would cause the Democrats to burst a blood vessel or two.

        • Well, if said illegals commit a serious crime they *might* be deported. Or they might commit a crime here and flee the US, only to be caught and tried for murder after being sufficiently stupid to fill out an unspecified document(s) using their real name. After what I’ve seen in LA, I’ve got to say I’m a big fan of deportation and the death penalty, although it doesn’t happen long enough.

          As to the Hispanic culture who is legally here and actually supports the constitution, the NRA should definitelty court them.

  9. Why am I constantly reminded of the line from Deux Ex:HR… “It’s not the end of the world… but you can see it from here”?

    Maybe it hits a little too close to the truth

  10. As an NRA member, I believe the organization should seek folks from all walks of life. They should be running advertisements in Spanish and every other major language in the country in the media outlets that serve them. We need to be THE National Rifle Association and represent the nation of firearm owners, not just the one for OFWGs.

      • I didn’t say provide stuff to everyone that comes across the border, I said to actively recruit across the spectrum. And it’s more than just the Hispanic population that needs to be targeted. Like the GOP, NRA needs to become more inclusive.

        Evolve or perish. It is possible to preserve the core principles and still be more inclusive.

        • I said to actively recruit across the spectrum.

          The NRA does that. But despite the NRA’s good intentions, many blacks and Hispanics look at the NRA like it’s the Klan. Because that’s what their leaders tell them to think, and the sheeple find it easier to have leaders do the thinking for them.

  11. Anyone who doesn’t believe the current drive to bring in masses of immigrants in order to front-load the Leftist voting base is irretrievably ignorant.

  12. I think the NRA should be doing much more outreach but not concessions, as Roll said. They need to find some Mexican-American spokespeople, make Spanish language ads and videos, find more Hispanic shooting stars to promote–stuff like that. The GOP in TX courts Hispanics. A couple of Hispanic Dem state reps have changed parties, and Hispanics in TX vote GOP at a higher rate than those in other states. It helps that the job situation in TX is superior, and many of the best jobs are in a field that Democrats want to kill off: fracking for shale oil and gas.

    We don’t have to get all of them, even if we could, but we do need to stop them from becoming a 95% voting block as blacks are. One study I’ve read suggests that Hispanics trend GOP when they get over $30,000 income, so the GOP has an big incentive to help them out of poverty by encouraging job creation, which of course also happens to be the right thing to do.
    The progs have the opposite incentive. It’s always in the best interests of the progressives to keep in place a jobless underclass that they can bribe for votes, without actually helping them get out of poverty. Blacks as a percent of the population are shrinking, and whites are trending more Republican, so it’s imperative for progressives to import a new jobless underclass to victimize.

    • That’s a very astute observation, to which I’d add this:

      The one group of people hurt the most financially by this huge wave of both legit immigration and normalization of illegal aliens are blacks with only a high school education.

      Since the Democrats are able to take that racial cohort for granted (all they have to do is gin up some event or scare-mongering) because they vote 90% for the Democrats, they can successfully ignore their plight. The level of cynical self-dealing by “progressives” is appalling.

      • Thanks, and you are absolutely correct. It’s astounding to see the congressional black caucus push this when black unemployment is 16%, IIRC.

      • Further, I think once the incoming Hispanics (freshly rewarded with citizenship for their illegal immigration crimes) become the favored race of the Democrats (because they will become a larger portion of the population, when compared to other minorities) the African American community will backlash against them.

        As Dems throw more free stuff at them (just look at how politicians, on both sides, pander to them now and they aren’t even legal), at the expense of other “less favored” minorities the race pimps will have more than just white people to demonize. I wonder what they will call polar bear hunting when it targets non whites?

        The only way I see to reverse course is to begin mass deportations and stop moving them around the country trying to turn a purple state into a blue state.

      • Ralph, I’m starting to get the impression that you’re not a very friendly guy.

        Did somebody ask you to get your daughter in bed with the black guy next door? I don’t think so, unless I am missing something…?

        You’re absolutely off kilter if you believe, for one second, that A.) American Demographics AREN’T changing and B.) the NRA doesn’t have an image problem.

        The Good Ol’ Boys Club image doesn’t appeal to the youth now, Sir. Let me break this down for you: Houston, we have a problem.

        The upholding of The Second Amendment is collectively much larger and much more important than your rebuttals and “statistics” and reasoning as to why other ethnicities can’t, won’t, and shouldn’t help us taxpaying, pro-gun white folks protect our God-given right to 2A.

        My .02.

        • Which is why the NRA recruited Colion Noir (black), Chris Cheng (gay and Asian), Natalie Foster and Nikki Turpeaux (females) and Gabbie Franco (hispanic immigrant female), Billy Johnson (libertarian hipster), and Dom Raso (tactical?), as their new commentators. They know they have an image problem, and they are addressing it. I think they are doing a fine job at staying relevant.

        • @Missouri Josh, if I come across as unfriendly, well, that’s just too bad for you. The fact is that I’m as pro-black as the black people on this site. As far as Hispanic people are concerned, I admire them too and seek out their company whenever possible.

          What I don’t like are people who break laws and then exploit the political system. Democrats, border jumpers, stickup men, Bernie Madoff — you name them, I despise them. They are not my friends or yours.

          The media and Democrats (I’m being repetitive) want me to believe that if I respect Hispanic Americans — which I do — I have to embrace the swarms of border jumpers. Utter nonsense.

          And your comment about my daughter sleeping with a black man reveals the depth of your bigotry. Frankly, my daughter can sleep with anyone she likes. But I would prefer that she did not sleep with idiots, which kinda rules you out.

        • Yup. You’re right. I’m an idiot.

          Tell you what, since you’re attitude will definitely keep us all shooting long into the future, I’ll just adopt your answer. How’s that?

          We’re doing everything we can! The NRA is doing everything they can! All Hispanics are border jumpers and we don’t have any free sh*t to give them!

          Bravo. Let’s hear it for Ralph!!!

          By the way- lovin’ the illegal immigrant red herring you’ve got there.

          Good day. Lol

        • @Mizzery Josh

          It’s one thing to disagree with a man. It’s another to justify one’s own asinine rants by mischaracterizing what they said.

          “All Hispanics are border jumpers ”

          Ralph distinctly said otherwise, so take your off-base caricature of him and shove it.

        • Ralph is simply anti-bullshit, which is being peddled ad nauseum by the liberal progressive media. Calling someone a border jumper is not racist. The realization that about 85% – 95 % of the black population will automatically vote Democrat (or in the case of Obama, black Democrat) is simply a factual assessment based upon poll data.

        • Being nice is the reason we have gotten here, open borders or you are a “racist”, welfare for illegals or you are a “racist”, “free this and that” or you are “racist”

          Sorry we are done, the fences go up, they go home and the leftist do not like they are more then free to leave with their pets to the 3rd world….

          We have compromise on our culture, future, liberty, and our rights…We are done.

          And yet the demos are changing and not in a good way, We are not going to become a minority in our own nation, since when has that ever been a good thing..

          • Being nice doesn’t mean being taken advantage of.
            Being nice doesn’t mean destroying what makes you who you are.
            Being nice doesn’t mean surrendering your convictions.
            Being nice doesn’t mean being weak.
            Being nice doesn’t mean you will let yourself be played for a fool.

  13. If you and I are equal citizens of America, Then, If America is yours to give away, (by logical progression to the conclusion) it’s mine to take away from you.

    U.S. Government is “We the People” . . . “Of, the People, By the People, for the People”.
    If there is no Sovereignty in the Term “People” there is no Sovereignty in the Term “Government”.

    If America ‘folds’ the people who ‘folded’ it will be hunted. That’s not a personal comment from me, nor a threat (if you feel threatened, turn in all your firearms before seeking counseling and maybe some medical marijuana), that’s history and human nature, and it has been repeated on every continent with every type of people.

  14. Well no. The NRA isn’t the only game in town anymore. Let’s also face the fact that the NRA has not won over a majority of blacks either. If we as second amendment supporters start thinking about the second amendment effects groups “I.E. Blacks whites Hispanics and so forth” then we have lost. The second amendment is for ALL Americans no matter what the tone of your skin is. Just my 2 cents worth

      • Or care more about free stuff than 2A rights? And remember, many immigrants are coming from societies in which the rule of law is a joke. It’s all about what you can get away with. So, if they want guns, they’ll get guns, even if they have to make guns illegal in order to get their free stuff.

  15. We absolutely need to reach out to these people. We have to be inclusive as much as possible. The more people on our side, the better.

  16. At least in this area I see quite a few Hispanic gun owners. It would pay for the NRA and other gun groups to do outreach. We also need to reach out to gay, and liberal gun owners. We dont have to agree on lifestyles social or economic issues, but we can all rally around the Second Amendment. The gun rights movement would become even more powerful with that coalition.

    • The NRA does a lot of Hispanic outreach. You may not know about it because it’s aimed at Hispanic people, in Spanish.

    • The NRA can reach out all it wants, but it doesn’t mean jack unless someone reaches back.

      Meanwhile, every time the NRA courts some unreceptive group, they are draining finances that the NRA could use more productively elsewhere.

  17. Lets be clear that as a whole, Latinos are probably more conservative than we give them credit for. The reason you saw such rampat block voting for Democrats is due to immigration reform. As very clearly pointed out in this op-ed piece , Latinos are fed up with being political pawns for the Obama administration and the Democratic party as a whole. As far as issues go they are by and large more conservative, at least on moral issues. The “Dreamers” as they are called, aka children of second and 3rd generation illegal immigrants are the only real block of Latinos who are ideologically progressive but I would say that is a small percentage. With Obama punting the football on immigration I would be very surprised to see as many Latinos even turn out much less vote for democrats in the upcoming midterms. About the only way we might see huge Latino turnout for Dem’s would be if some wiseguy in the GOP makes a “self deport” comment or something else as equally stupid.

    The one part that is dangerous, regardless of which party they vote for, ALL of THEM, come from countries where for generations only bad people, corrupt politicians and drug cartels have had guns. I dont know a single Latin American country where firearms ownership is not HEAVILY restricted. My wife is from Nicaragua and even though she was very young at the time she still has vivid memories of hearing stories about people being forced to join the revolutionary army at gun point and executed if they said no. Or members of the military and criminal thugs who took advantage of the power vacuum generated by the revolution coming into house and raping women and girls at gunpoint. And to this day there is still evidence of all the illegal guns that made their way out onto the street for criminal uses due to political corruption and civil unrest after the fighting was over. Needless to say her road to accepting my love of firearms ownership has been long and rocky. So realize this is what we are up against in the fight regardless of which party they vote for. Such deeply entrenched (and legitimate) fears of firearms are not unlearned overnight and dont go away just because we win them over to a specific political party.

    • Hispanics voted Democrat long before DREAM or the current wave of pro-border jumper hysteria was even a remote possibility.

      Reagan got 38% of the Hispanic vote and then helped to pass an amnesty. As a result, George H.W. Bush then got 30% of the Hispanic vote. Thanks a lot, amigos.

    • You are right. I live in Texas. Hispanics here are culturally/socially conservative. It is not a given that they are reliable supporters of leftest/progressive politics.

      • culturally/socially conservative. For now…In 20 years lets see if it now a burned out shell like California.

  18. Yep we’re screwed. Sorry but I see it in my own neighborhood south of Chicago. A large percentage of “immigrants”(?) can barely speak a word of english. They work hard, take care of their property and most are family oriented. Are they all legal? I highly doubt it. There are also Palestinians running neighborhood stores I don’t have a clue about( maybe a bit more important on September 11).

  19. I think hispanic immigrants escaping, South American, Central American and Mexican oppression would be open to the freedoms granted in the second ammendment. Just look at the Auto Defensas groups in Mexico. Craft a pro 2A message that appeals to the Latino communities and reap the electoral pressure that would bring.

      • You gentleman are comparing two different things.

        There are Hispanics here legally (SHOCKER!) and there are, of course, millions of immigrants, unfortunately.

        You can absolutely market to Hispanics whilest putting an emphasis on American Citizenship. How is this hard to understand?

        • The NRA spends a lot of time and treasure marketing to Hispanic people. If you cared to know the truth, you’d know that.

      • Do they want freedom or free stuff? That’s a question only they can answer. Because nobody can have both. Actually you can apply that to any group and the public at large in many countries world wide.

  20. Most of these illegal aliens are poorly educated, fast reproducing, and come from 3rd world hell holes where they’re well accustomed to having no rights, no benefits, and no alternative but being governed by an unruly, ruthless criminal organization. That’s why they’re so attractive to the Democrats.

    The Democrats welcome them with open arms and all the welfare benefits your tax dollars can buy, in exchange for keeping their lawless, rights snatching butts seated in power; which the illegals are all too eager to provide.

    It’s a deal made in Hell: the Democrats use your money to buy illegals’ allegiance, which the illegals’ demonstrate by forfeiting your rights.

    Every Democrat in office knows full well this is unsustainable, but who cares? Yes, eventually the house of cards will collapse, some day, and when it does, we’ll be living in the United States of Detroit. So what? That day is not this day, nor any day within the lives or career years of any Democrat currently in major elected office. So why not set us on a course to run this ship into the ground and get theirs while the getting’s good? Future of the Republic be damned!

    • ^ This! This this this!

      This is exactly what is happening. Thus, my every important question on an earlier comment above, how are We The People going to prevent the collapse of our nation?

  21. I am in favor of more legal immigration. But if people come here for liberty and a better life, while at the same time importing the same failed policies in the places they came from, like crony capitalism and gun control, how do you think that will work out? Then where will they run to?

    • Anyone who wants to come to America legally and go through the citizenship process is an American in my book, and every American has the same right to screw up the country as every other American.

      Really, do you think that a naturalized citizen from Honduras can do more harm to the country than, say, Ward Churchill?

    • Amen, make the do some tests, if they favor the same failed systems that killed their home nations, keep them out..why import failure, corruptions, tyranny and stupidity?

  22. Just go to any general discussion section on about any gun forum, local or global, and you’ll see why minorities few gun owners unfavorably. “Hispanics are destroying our culture!” “All Muslims are evil!” “The US is a Christian nation!” and other assorted bullshit. Hell, on my local forums, people use “wetback” unapologetically. It’s absolutely disgusting and not only pushes the targeted minorities away, but also moderates. Realistically, our hope lies in the rise of the more libertarian-minded Millennials.

    • our hope lies in the rise of the more libertarian-minded Millennials.

      Well, if “hope” is the name of a new video game, then you’re right.

    • Knowing more than a few of these “Millennials,” I find they like to keep using the word “libertarian” without knowing what libertarian political philosophy actually is beyond the ability to fornicate freely and smoke dope legally.

      When I explain that libertarianism also involves fewer laws overall, less to (ideally) no welfare, a government that has nothing to do with health care, less regulation of all manner of things including guns… suddenly they aren’t quite so hot on the “libertarian” label.

      A favorite hobby horse of the Millennial generation is student loans (which is understandable, given how much they owe). When I try to explain to them that the government meddling in the student lending market is what created the bubble in college graduates, and allowed bankers to bait kids into a life of penury with explicit regulations/laws, you can see this big disconnect. They cannot conceive that government policy has unintended consequences, and that adding more government regulation and meddling to a market will create yet more unintended consequences. The libertarian solution would be to get the government out of student lending completely and allow students and lenders to arrive at their own terms for loans.

      Some youngsters just cannot seem to conceive of a market left to itself… which would be ultimately libertarian. This gets us back to the Millennials – who keep getting labeled as “libertarian,” but who are in reality just not so.

      • I have two millennials and they get more real libertarian as they get older and discover the real joys of government taxation and stupid laws.

    • There are lots and lots of people of all stripes who generally don’t like anyone who doesn’t look, dress, talk, and think like they do. People like this are over-represented among gun owners (or at least gun owners who use internet message boards) as compared to the general population. I don’t know why. It’s too bad because it’s ultimately detrimental to liberty.

  23. Lol. Amazing.

    These are some fun comments, really.

    I thought The Second Amendment was for everyone to enjoy, no matter what your background is?

    Should my neighbor from India- a doctor, mind you- not be able to go to the range to do some plinking?

    Or how about the hard working black guy who can’t afford to move out of his “sketchy” neighborhood because he’s underwater on his home loan? Can’t he have a gun for home defense, too?

    Both of the cases I’ve given you are very likely real examples of gun owners.

    NRA… are you listening? Get them on your side, or watch your membership decline as demographics change.

    If a sensitive old white guy who lives in The Sticks is uncomfortable with “others” being at his NRA meetings, well then- after the NRA Convention/Meeting/What not is over, he can go on back home to his seclusion in the woods.

    It’s time we ALL come together for the protection of The Second Amendment.

    Let’s watch this grouping people together for stereotyping bullsh*t as well. May I remind you, our ancestors coming here were escaping persecution over their beliefs, which you could say is- *GASP*- discrimination.

    Yup. Our white ancestors were discriminated against.

    My friends, trash can come in ALL colors/backgrounds. Rich/poor. Black/white/purple polka-dotted.

    Let’s get everyone onboard so we can keep on shooting.


      • Yes it does. It is a natural human right, and thus applies to all humans period, including non-citizens (or it should anyway).

        • Um, no it doesn’t.

          See SCOTUS decision United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, and a more recent Fifth Circuit decision United States v. Portillo-Munoz., which goes after the issue of

          This question has already been discussed in the courts – and it has been found constitutional that illegal aliens do not enjoy the protection of the Constitution on certain issues – owning/bearing arms, voting, signing petitions, some search issues, etc.

  24. There’s no reason NOT to bring Hispanics, African Americans, and anyone else who wants to be in into the fold.

    In fact, many of the Hispanics I know of are pretty big into guns and defending the right to own firearms/defend themselves.

    To exclude them is patently retarded and bad practice.

    • Nobody wants to exclude them — that is the arguments above yours.

      The point is to reach out to make more of them into NRA Members. This is and always been a cultural war. The democrats want conscript the Latino population as a voting block. They could care less about them except for their vote. Once they have their vote then they believe they can pass any legislation they want on behalf of that voting block even if that is not what is wanted. The democrats have been lying and gerrymandering districts simply to stay in power and could give a crap about these people want the power has been given.

      The point is to give them an option and make them inclusive in the fight for 2a. That means teaching them want the NRA is about and not what democratic politicians tell them they are.

  25. This thread is getting old but…
    Maybe the NRA should start sending the hispanic community some of the NRA Visa card applications they keep sending me. Put some low credit limits on the cards and hold a lottery to pay of X number of cards each month. There would be at least the hope of getting some free stuff. Then the NRA has a mailing list they can use to send out information on how to become legal citizens, how to assimilate into the culture and society, how to make an informed voting decision and why the BoR keeps the USA from looking Mexico.

  26. I can’t speak for everyone of Mexican heritage, but for the most part we do like guns. For those who came here legally, a little outreach may be good. For those who came here illegally, round ’em up and ship ’em back.

    Now, those fleeing from Central America? That may well be another story.

  27. The NRA, IMO, needs to stay out of the illegal immigration debate as it will turn off Hispanics. it should reach out to Hispanics and Latinos in terms of protecting their right to arms. And it should continue to argue to vote Republican as that is the best way to protect gun rights. But it should stay out of the immigration debate IMO, as that could turn off Hispanics. By saying to vote Republican, one is then voting for the party more resistant to legalizing illegals.

  28. Anyone else thing we need to secure the border with a fence, make over staying a visa a ban able offensive, and limit immigration to 100,000 a year?

    I mean why import leftist and entitlement voters to America?

  29. Question. Our son is 19 and is living with us. He does not contribute to any household income per our choice. He is working full time to save to go to college this fall part-time. Are we still required to add his income for a USDA loan. If so for a family of 3 in our county show max income 78800 we are at 79160 with his income can we still applied for a USDA loan.. For more on loan tips, you can check :-

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