Reader Dennis T. writes:
I got my CCW a few months ago, and I have been carrying just about every day where I am legally allowed to. I live in Oklahoma and the ‘no guns’ signs here do NOT carry force of law. My friend got is CCW over a year ago, but he told me that he has NEVER carried at all. I don’t disagree as it is his choice, but when we go to places such as restaurants or the mall he says that I should not carry and “follow the rules” and that since I am carrying in a place that is “off-limits” he says that I give gun owners a “bad name” by doing so. I should note that I am a college student so I do not carry to school or into post offices or other federal buildings. The off limits places I mentioned refer to private businesses. Do you think legally carrying gun owners who carry into “off-limits” places gives gun owners everywhere a bad name?
Yes
Yes to the title or the question posed in the final sentence?
If I’m able to keep a gun out of sight then no one has to know I have it on me unless SHTF.
EDC b/c: Bears (remote), but yes. Coyotes, more likely, especially since many mate with feral dogs and have no fear of man. Wild pigs, yes. Momma w/ young seen just this past Sunday at noon on a major road in an AL town of 20,000 plus.
Obnoxious dogs that cannot be deterred by pepper spray? Highly likely. Dangerous humans? Of course.
Bottom line? Like Robert says, “Carry all the time”.
I am in Pennsylvania, and I carry everywhere… banks, stores, you name it. I’d rather be able to defend myself should the need arise. I carry a Glock 29 in a Galco Matrix M7X, very concealable. Nobody but me knows it is there.
I am in PA as well and carry everywhere except where the law states otherwise.
Court house, VA Medical Center, etc…
Any establishment that does want my business by posting “No Firearms Allowed” does not get my business.
You do realize that carrying in a VAMC is a Federal beef, and could increase your lead content, no?
You missed the EXCEPT in his post. Reading is not only fun, it’s fundamental.
But it does piss me off that the VA is fully guns “free”, which includes the parking lot. Because a locked car gun is such a danger while I’m getting my boo boos checked out courtesy of the Taliban.
I guess the reason why they don’t allow guns in the VA hospital is because it’s only heroic to kill people when you do it for the government and when you’re in someone else’s country. It’s only heroic when you’re doing it for other people who couldn’t be bothered to show up and do it themselves. You’re not allowed to kill people in your own country in defense of yourself, that’s crazy and bad.
Since the operative word is “concealed” .. No, no one knows and the idea isn’t to be parading it around, again “concealed”
It could present a legal conundrum for states like Michigan where you must have “a legal right to be” where you are carrying and since you are in violation of the property rules you may be open to additional liabilities
It’s not just a stagnation in the firearms industry, but across the board in almost everything. As technology has gotten more and more complex we’ve moved from a single brilliant individual designing a product toward teams of individuals each handling a piece of a design.
You can say John Browning designed THAT gun.
Harley Earl designed THAT car.
Leroy Grumman designed THAT plane.
In our current design world it’s moe like “I designed that gear, that he put into that gearbox, that they included in that transmission…”
It is a difficult question.
Practically speaking, I err on the side of carrying anyways.I do not come to that conclusion lightly.While the risk of armed conflict is low, it is by no means zero.I don’t wish to infringe on the property owners justified right to regulate activity within their areas-but an attacker intent on mayhem is unlikely to obey the sign.
In any event the only time it would be public knowledge that I’m armed is if I needed to employ my weapon, which implies a crisis of exponentially greater severity then a disobeyed custom.
I’m a lawyer. Don’t get legal advice on the internet from me or anyone else.
Laws vary hugely from state to state, county to county, and city to city. You want to be sure that the advice you DO get is right for the place where you live.
My shooting buddy was being threatened by three morons in a big-box store w/ a no-guns sign. He simply moved his shirt to show that he was armed. They left. BUT, he had revealed that he was carrying. I think he did the right thing. He was asked to leave and he did.
You can rely on the 2nd Amend. all you want, but realize that it can cost you nearly everything you own to defend yourself from a vicious prosecutor or a greedy plaintiff in a lawsuit. Neither the prosecutor nor the plaintiff needs to be right to go after you. Use discretion for Lord’s sake.
If the sign has the force of law, I obey it. However, I almost always carry concealed so if the sign does not have the force of law, I ignore it. There are some places, like Buffalo Wild Wings, that are adamantly against customers carrying guns. So, I oblige them and don’t patronize their business. Besides, BWW’s wings suck anyway.
The Wild Wings I visit in Loveland Colorado doesn’t seem to mind. I think it’s location dependent.
A silly little sticker in a window somewhere does not circumvent your constitutionally protected rights, nor does it invalidate the sacrifices and blood shed by our founding fathers and patriots who brought you this fine nation.
My father-in-law (now in the great target range in the sky) carried. Daily. In LA. Without a permit.
:0
I always ignore the signs in private businesses, unless some unique factor is involved.
Two things I don’t want written on my tombstone: “He had the right-of-way”, and, “He obeyed the ‘No Guns’ sign”.
On private property, they can make any rules they damn well please, like “We reserve the right to refuse service to whomever we don’t like.”
I say, you have a right to refuse to give your money to people who don’t like you, either. Too. Well, you get my point.
Actually, they can’t. A “no gun” sign has the same moral authority as a “whites only” sign.
Here in Michigan the signs don’t carry force of law, so I ignore them. I’ve done this (to my knowledge) at a Sprint store and at Chuck E Cheese, both in Flint. The local mall reportedly has a ban as well, but I’ve never seen a sign on the door and the code of conduct on the wall mentions nothing about firearms. I’ve even OC’d in sight of a security guard and not a word was said. I think once they kicked a guy out for carrying a long gun and he made a big fuss when they cited a policy to him, but I’ve seen no evidence of an outright ban there.
I don’t think it gives gun owners a bad name unless they throw a hissy fit when asked to leave. They’re not breaking the law, and technically they’re still respecting private property rights so long as they leave or go store the weapon if outed while carrying. Your friend is a ninny.
No. If the sign is there, I don’t go in.
Who cares what other think when you are carrying to protect the lives of yourself and loved ones. Here in VA, the signs don’t carry force of law, so if you are spotted they can ask you to leave. If you don’t leave as requested, you can be arrested for trespassing. Solution: Carry concealed and they wont ask you to leave. Of course, those places specifically listed as off limits according to law are the exception and I don’t carry in those places. CANT = Carry Always, Never Tell.
Joke’s on them. The robbery took place at a different branch, located nearby. They all look the same.
Yes. Next question.
??? Just “Yes” – No reasons? Just Yes? A man of few words.
Some quotes for your consideration on the subject…
“Talk low, talk slow, and don’t say too much.” – John Wayne
“A man speaks because he has something to say; a fool speaks because he has to say something.” – Unknown
Absolutely not.
If the sign holds no water, it’s there to satisfy the delusion of a peaceful utopia where no one needs a gun, and everyone should be safe and free to roam the planet.
The sign isn’t an officer. Never seen a sign write you a ticket. Have you?
If you’re carrying concealed, who’s to know/say/see? I’m willing to bet 90% of the people we encounter are in condition WHITE or Off-White. Mall security will save them! Here they come now, the Segway-Mall-Cop Calvary to save the day!
Chances are you’ll never need your firearm. So, statistically speaking, being near/around you would mean a significantly lower probability of something happening around you? Right? My logic might be flawed but at least I’m applying some sense of the word.
Looking at your California 😉 *fonz-fingers* Keep up!
Being a California/Los Angeles native, we don’t have the luxury of LTC’ing. If my workplace said “No guns” it means no guns. I would loose my job, and have no ground to stand on. Though a coworker and myself have considered it, we’ve been advised against it via our business conduct memorandum, and some remarks/issues brought to our attention when a single .45 ACP was found sitting neatly under one of our monitors.
If it isn’t prohibited (federal or state) the worst they can do is ask you to leave.
Go forth and carry my son!
Ing said it best…
“Carrying openly in defiance of someone’s expressed wishes on their premises would be a different story. That would be rude and definitely a black mark on gun owners’ public image.”
Thats about it.
Yes, depending on the situation. High risk of getting spotted? Might keep it in the car. If I am DD and such, i’m taking it in with me. Concealed is concealed, I’m not going to leave my only method of effective self defense in my vehicle/domicile just because you say so, armed security guards make me feel just a bit better, but not enough to make me confident, they have no duty to protect me, and chances are have far far less training than i do.
Banks? You bet. Sports events? Yep. Bars? Legal here and I don’t drink more than a beer if I do at all.
I choose not to break the law. So, I don’t carry at the Post Office. Then again, I don’t go to the Post Office. Having no school-aged children, I have no reason to go to any school. I cast my vote by mail-in ballot, so the ban on polling place carry is irrelevant.
In secured government buildings, I check my carry piece in the building’s gun locker. In unsecured government buildings, it’s legal for me to carry and I do.
The list of prohibited places in MA is surprisingly short, and I do not recall ever seeing a “no guns” sign on private property such as movie theaters, banks or restaurants.
If someone chooses to break the law by carrying where prohibited, it’s no reflection on me or anyone else. I don’t control anyone else’s actions, and I accept no responsibility for what anyone else does.
Frankly, I’m totally sick to death of anyone telling me that what one guy does is a “bad reflection” on all of us. What a load of liberal bullsh1t.
You’re absolutely right, Ralph.
We’re responsible for our actions, and for the actions of our dependents (if any), and no one else.
That said, everybody knows that if any gun owner steps out of line, that transgression is used by the liberal media to smear all gun owners.
As an extension of that, if someone sees another person acting irresponsibly with a gun, they’re more likely to assume that the next person they see with a gun will do the same. If you were a waiter at an upscale restaurant, and over the course of several months you serve a handful of ladies with long fur coats and expensive jewelry who were inexcusably rude to you, would you be more likely to assume that the next one you see dressed like that will act the same way? Probably.
While it is certainly not a reflection of all gun owners when one acts irresponsibly (even though the liberals and the media treat it as such), that does not change the fact that it is in our best interest as gun owners and armed citizens to do our part to make sure others are acting responsibly.
@Alaskan Patriot, we see eye to eye. As a retired lawyer and NRA/MA certified trainer, I try to put people on the path to firearms enlightenment, which I think is doing my part.
This much I know for sure — we cannot be perfect. People will make mistakes. I simply refuse to accept responsibility for anyone else’s mistakes. I also know that the Democrats and media try to blame us for everything bad that happens in this world. And if the day comes that nothing bad happens in the world, the MSM and Dems will either take credit for it or make something up.
Either way, I’m not going to sweat it.
My ability to defend myself, my family, or my friends supersedes everything a sign may try to enforce.
That being said, If I so choose to carry openly everywhere else, to avoid a commotion in places like malls or banks or whatnot I will conceal the firearm before even leaving my vehicle to enter such a place.
Yeah. Feinstein supports the 2nd Amendment… And Adolf Hitler supported Jewish owned businesses.
Callous words, I know. But appropriate given how she has treated the intrinsic right to self defense. This person has done her best every year to pass laws that will completely strip our rights down to a fain glimmer of what they are.
What signs?
I don’t carry at my kids’ schools. I know my neighbor doesn’t approve of private ownership, so I leave it at home when I go over there (which is seldom). Otherwise, I have never seen a no guns allowed sign. I’ve gone over the rules and handbooks at my work and didn’t see any mention of firearms, so I’m not asking.
Gators, pythons and bears. Florida is a dangerous place. Add in hurricanes and you’re lucky to live past puberty.
Seriously, though. I’ve heard of large black bears, but have never seen one. All that I’ve encountered have been, at most, 250 pounds. I would use any gun I was carrying against an attacking bear. Beats a pointy stick.
The one hanging on my wall was about a 300 pounder. Taken with two rounds out a of .44 mag blackhawk.
The semi-jacketed soft point thru the heart was the money shot. The hollow point in the knee? Not so much. It changed my mind on what I carry in the woods.
That knee shot was to slow him down enough for the money shot, you planned it that way, right?
People I know to be reliable, now including you, have told me about bigger bears. I just haven’t seen one myself. The first time I saw one in the wilds I had a .22 rifle. The bear made no aggressive moves and left when he realised I was there. If he had of attacked, I would have shot him with the .22. It was all I had.
Nice to see my Redhawk might work
Like some here have said, if a business is so anti-gun as to post obvious signs against it, I’ll take my business elsewhere if possible.
On the other hand, in the state where I live those signs don’t have force of law, so I don’t tend to spend time looking for them, and I wouldn’t let one stop me.
Carrying openly in defiance of someone’s expressed wishes on their premises would be a different story. That would be rude and definitely a black mark on gun owners’ public image. But concealed is concealed, and they can’t get upset about something they can’t perceive. And the reasons for carrying don’t disappear just because a few narrow-minded nincompoops can’t handle the thought that their patrons might be armed
What does it mean for the signs to have legal force?
In California, e.g., they do not make it criminal (in the rare hypothetical of you having a CCW). But if they made you out and asked you to leave and you did not, then there is trespassing.
Is it something like that? Merely carrying does not result in any crime, but refusing to leave when asked does? (you would be surprised, or maybe not, how little restrictions are placed by state law on where a CCW can carry in CA. The law allows it even in courtrooms, unless you are a party to the action….just cannot get a CCW easily!)
Or is it more, are you a protected class that cannot be kicked out for that reason?
In states, say Texas with 30.06 signs, does merely being caught carry against the sign carry a charge?
Call me when a man-portable (person-portable?) rail gun shows up. In 22 cal.
The man that drew his gun on the Clackamas (sp?) Mall shooter ignored the GFZ signs. The shooter retreated and blew his own head off in a stairwell. Just sayin.
Signage does not carry force of law in MI. So screw the property rights of corporations, your little signs do not keep me safe. I do fully honor the wishes of family, friends and neighbors, but otherwise concealed means concealed.
That sir is a perfect analysis and destruction of the brain dead liberal ant-freedom attack idiots. That is an argument that cannot be broken.
I do not voluntarily give my money to businesses that have made it perfectly clear that they do not want me as a customer. I will respect a private property owner’s authority over his own property and abide by his conditions, but I will also not put myself at risk by entering a disarmed-victim zone. I take my business to companies that respect my rights and I make sure to tell them why.
Regardless of the law, if we expect people to respect our rights (to life, self-defense, property), then we too should respect theirs.
Funny. I was in a hospital this morning and noticed a “no weapons” sign when I was checking my kid in. It was the first sign I’d seen in a while, but I’m not leaving my bleeding grade schooler to go stow my gun. No one knew so no one had a hissy fit.
I will obey the law and stow my gun in the car if I’m going into a school or federal building. I have carried into restaurants and returned to my car to secure my CCW if I decide to have a drink. Those prohibitions are etched into (bad) law. For private property, I will simply carry concealed and leave if the owner asks me to. I really don’t see what the big deal is.
Memorial Hospital in Colorado Springs has a sign that says “No open carry of firearms,” making it quite clear that concealed is ok. Nearly every other hospital I have been in has no “firearms” signs. Needless to say, I prefer to go to memorial for medical care.
Sky Ridge Medical Center in Lone Tree has a “no guns” sign. I’ve ignored it on the few occasions that I’ve entered that building.
One of the hospitals near me was not posted, then it got bought by a conglomerate and now it is. I am pretty sure that all of the other hospitals were already posted. I will have to find out what the legality of that is in my state.
Up here in North ID and Western MT the only places that I’ve seen that are posted are the big chain movie theaters (the only theaters that show current films). I go to movies rarely, and they post it in very fine print at the ticket window. In the unlikely even that I do get caught carrying concealed I’ll just feign innocence and apologize.
That being said, unless there is no other choice, I do not do business with anyone that posts, and have done that since I lived in AZ in 1999 (I was not even carrying back then).
A good policy. If a business owner wants to post a “PLEASE ROB ME” sign on their door, I’ll be across the street.
In my state, “no gun” signs have not force of law, therefore I carry everywhere but those places specifically forbidden by law (post office, courthouse, etc..) As others have said, concealed is concealed
Wiki says male Florida black bear avg 300lb, a few can weigh as much as 500lb.
That’s big bore wheel gun territory*. At the very least, hard cast 180gr .357 mag.
*Or you could just shoo them away (b/c they’re black bear folks, not kodiak):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkwy0scRXBU
Why are so many of the officer’s faces covered? Gestapo tactics!
If there isn’t a metal detector, I’m carrying.
The signs also don’t carry the weight of the law in my state, and I carry everywhere I legally can except work, where I have a contractual agreement not to carry. I can legally carry in restuarants, but not in bars or in thr bar section of a “bar & grill”, which means I do most of occasional drinking at home or at a friend’s house. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any “no guns” signs, but a few local gun stores do have “keep your concealed guns concealed” notices.
.223 will bring down a black bear just fine, maybe even in one shot. Black bear are small, don’t have a real large amount of fat or muscle compared to other species. In the past (and present, for some old timers) a 30-30 was a pretty popular black bear hunting cartridge. I’m sure many black bear have also met their end with a single .22LR to the head.
Keep in mind that earlier in the year, a guy in Alaska took down a grizzly with several shots from a 5.45×39 AK-74 – which more or less is identical to the behavior of .223 FMJ.
A perfect opportunity to post this great tale of ‘always carry’
http://www.adn.com/2009/08/13/897940/twig-snap-alerts-dog-walker-to.html
Not to beat a dead horse, but concealed is concealed. Nobody should know you are packin’ unless you are not concealed very well, run your mouth, or if the SHTF and you have to pull it. At that point, I could give a flying f**k what the owner thinks. He might live because I stopped the BG.
“At the 911 operator’s instructions and with deputies arriving, Bart relinquished his weapon.”
In what universe is that good instruction?
Yeah can’t say I would have done the same. Holster the gun when the police are exiting their vehicles? Sure. Getting rid of it completely when the BG is still a [possibly armed] threat and the cops aren’t right there? No dang way.
I suppose the post title isn’t accurate, but I doubt any DGU would completely stand up to after-the-fact armchair criticism/review. In this case they worked together as a team and didn’t panic and the end result wasn’t a dead body but it was a safe family. It’s a win. Some mistakes are probably inevitable.
Ya know, if I’m ever in a DGU situation where shots are fired- I plan on suing the perp (and whoever might have enabled their behavior) for the cost of whatever cleanup is required and the counseling I’ll need…
I also plan to STFU. see the required DGU clip-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
ServPro — like it never even happened.
Gun? What gun?
Great teamwork in a gun friendly part of CA.
First, it’s a mall, so for me, it’s no big disappointment. I stopped going to malls 30 years ago. I will have to assume you mean this to apply in a general sense, not just to malls, but most businesses in general. That said, I carry everywhere the state of Florida does not expressly prohibit. No one has detected my IWB rig or stopped me to ask if I was carrying. That’s kinda the point, yes? That, and I usually shop at places that don’t make an issue of it, and where a polite apology would diffuse most any situation.
These “No Guns” signs are like STOP signs on private property, they’re suggestions, or kind requests. If you find a sign with “st. fl. 790._ _ _ _ ” below it, that is not a kind request, that is an order of compliance with state law. I would suggest that you comply.
I support the second amendment, but he affirmed his right to remain silent while questioned by the police authority.
On a totally and completely unrelated note: big time gun manufactures are coming out with all these neat, light weight, super thin, pocket and micro pistol now. And, they’re making them in all kinds of calibers and configurations- single action, double action, .32 acp, .380 acp, 9mm.
Man, you know, someone could walk around all day long with a pistol that only weights around 15oz in their front pocket and no one would even know it. Hell, with a quality pocket holster, it would probably just look like an iPhone, or wallet.
Also, on another completely, unrelated note: I can’t remember the last time I had to go through a metal detector or received a pat down while going about my daily business. I’ve even seen tons of places with 30.06 (Texas’ do not carry signs) and very few of those places had any security checking for armed people.
Not saying anything particular to the topic, just throwing some information out there.
If it is a public business to which I’ve been (implicitly) invited, sure, I’ll ignore the signs, because they mean…well, let’s see…they mean…NOTHING. At least in my state; your situation may vary. I will respect the “no display of firearms”, since I have my CHP; even though I prefer to OC, I will respect their wishes for me to be discrete. However, if they are insisting that I relieve myself completely of my personal protection and it’s obvious they are not providing any of their own on my behalf, well, then, I’ve printed up a handful of these cards:
http://www.not-pc.com/NoGuns=NoMoney.pdf
I will hand one to a manager or the owner (if I can), and then walk out.
(I have cobbled together the copy from various sources; I do not claim that to be an original work, but I did want something that was more generic than some of the state-specific cards I’ve found. Have at it; if anyone would like the original PS files, say, to upload to Vistaprint or something like that to make “real” cards, email me at “molon” dot “labe” at “not” dash “pc” dot “com” and I’ll share the files with you.)
Get a new friend and keep carrying. This one is a potential snitch and not someone I’d trust to have my back in a life or death situation.
The only alternative to government is private property rights. You must respect those. You are not only giving us a bad name, you are undermining the philosophical support of self ownership and the right to self defense.
We have here a case of conflicting rights — the business owner’s right to conduct business in his or her fashion and our right to bear arms. I don’t see how carrying concealed is disrespecting the former unless there is some consequence (business owner could lose his right to do business, for example). In my state, it’s not a crime to disregard a no weapons sign, only to refuse to leave when asked. If someone asks me to disarm or leave, I will leave without incident — respectfully.
Nice to see this on TTAG. Only 15 minutes or so from where I live, and yes, this is a very gun friendly part of CA. CCW’s are /almost/ shall-issue.
I have had a Star 30M for about 15 years or so. This has been a very reliable and fairly accurate 9mm.
A friend of mine (a deputy sheriff) calls it a BOAT ANCHOR…..I’m assuming because of the weight!!!
LOL….ya, he is so used to the plastic Glocks.
Why pay to be a “tester”
+1, sounds nuts to me.
Good job. To bad the perp walked, or in this case stretchered out.
Shows not everyone in California is an idiot.
“We are limiting the production initially to allow for user feedback that validates our test results.” == Only dead-tree gun magazines with no-bad-reviews policies will see any of this ammunition.
As a reloader, I expect to have the same allergic reaction to polymer cases that I get from steel cases.
In Georgia, “No Guns” signs do not have the force of law (unless you are told to leave and refuse, but its a trespassing charge at that point). Concealed means concealed. I’m the only one who knows, and if someone finds out and asks me to leave, then fine, I don’t want to be there anyway. The trade off of not having a gun when I need a gun is not worth it.
If they’re intending this to be high-quality match ammo, they’ve already failed because it’s not reloadable. If they’re trying to make an affordable alternative to steel cases, they’ve got to shave about $30 off the price per box.
If it’s going to cost as much as the best super-premium hunting ammo, it had better perform like it. And it had better be reloadable.
You got it, Chris.
All of you who are carrying where not allowed…bunch of hyprocrites. Do not support those who do not support the 2A.
Here in Georgia I’ve carried for over 12 years everyday with my CCW. Yes I have seen signs that say no guns, but I don’t care because my weapon is CONCEALED. I make large deposits and withdraws and will not follow the sign at the bank. Unless the bank states it is going to reimburse the money in my deposit bag if a robbery happens I’m going to “I’m so sorry I didn’t see the sign”. I’ve carried in the post office, government buildings, etc. In Georgia when they screen me I tell them I have a concealed weapon and would they mind holding it. They hold it and there is never an issue. When I go through the metal detectors I empty my pockets which have my wallet, phone, lighter, pack of cigarets, knife, and S&W “tactical” pen. Once I am through the metal detectors I get all the items back. I’ve never had a officer give me gruff. In Georgia most local government officials are smart enough to know that a 3″ knife is less dangerous then a 6″ sharpened pencil.
Setting legal issues aside for the moment. In most cases, I support concealed carry in violation of signs. I say this because I do not feel it is an infringement on someone’s private property because they do not see it or know that it’s there just as they would not know that I would have a locked gun in my car. I would say open carry in violation of signs is a violation of private property rights.
Based on that logic, someone can carry a live bomb into the mall and it’s okay because nobody knows. Really?
If “no [self-defense] allowed” signs don’t carry the force of law in your state/country/city, then you’re not even breaking the law by carrying into those places. I wouldn’t worry about it as the most the property owners and staff can do is ask you to leave. I would take my money elsewhere anyway, just on principle.
As others have said above, it’s literally nobody else’s business but your own anyway. Nobody else needs to know you’re carrying but you. Nobody. So, I wouldn’t be letting on about it, either. I mean, that’s precisely why it’s concealed carry. It’s supposed to be discreet! Be discreet about it!
As far as carrying against signs that do actually carry the force of “law”, I would always err on the side of obeying those signs by not patronizing those businesses to begin with. Yes, sure, you could always do it anyway and so long as you’re always doing it right no one would ever know in your lifetime or theirs. But there’s always the risk that you’ll slip up somewhere, somehow, and mankind as a whole is a deeply flawed creature who quite often forgets important lessons at its own peril. All it would take is just one overly-nosy busy-body to notice you even slipping up just a cunt hair, and that’ll be it. The savage animal that is the State will (illegally) strip you of your basic human rights faster than your head can spin, and often times forever.
I would strongly advise against it, despite how blatantly illegal it is to impede on the nautral, civil, and Constitutionally-protected right to keep AND bear arms, but ultimately it’s on you.
P.S.: I wouldn’t exactly count on the old maxim of, “It’s better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.” Not these days, anyway. The age when you could have counted on your fellow man for a fair and impartial trial-by-jury is long gone by now.
I love reading a (mostly) happy ending.
I added “mostly” because the perp is not occupying a slab in the morgue. Otherwise, kudos to the dynamic duo!
I read that a Beretta Jetfire is the best bear gun. (Provided your brother in law is present ) Just shoot brother in law in the knee and walk away.
I’m waiting for fully automatic assault weapons of war that can be printed at home from recycled plastic water bottles, and laser-guided armor-piercing exploding hollowpoint ammo that never misses at distances of 1000 yards and more.
I want the guns and ammo in .9 mm and 40 mm caliber, because according to the MSM, those are the guns used most by criminals.
And would it be too much to ask for all the guns and ammo to be invisible?
“Don’t you dare bleed all over my (expletive) couch!”
See, now this is how a Mom demands action. And gets it. See the look on the husbands face in the picture? Dude, do not bleed on that couch or we are both in trouble.
Lets contrast that with what another Mom Demanding Action, limousine liberal Shannon Watts, would do – stomp her feet like Veruca Salt and get all hash-taggy on your ass. I feel pretty sure she would not even dial 911, just twitter #intruder. What? the police dont respond to twitter. Then you’d hear in that whiny voice, Whaddya mean you’ll be here in 6 minutes I want my police to come nooow!!!
Yildiz also makes a side by side version that I was interested in for a few extra bucks. Is everything the same on it as the O/U. I know about the single sighting plane and stuff, but is the recoil more, is it less accurate, heavier, less reliable, is there still barrel selection.
Thanks
You people who are all “too bad the guy didn’t die” are sick.
The important thing is that the family is safe.
“Many that die deserve life, and some that live deserve death. Can you give it to them, Frodo?” -Gandalf the Grey
When the perp committed the second assault, he should have been shot until he ceased to be a threat. Those shots should have been aimed for maximum effectiveness.
Whether he died as a result is immaterial, and in fact it would likely be less inconvenient for the defender if he survived.
If you’re uncomfortable with the idea of shooting for effect in a defensive scenario, then partner, you may have come to the wrong place.
I am waiting on the bullet that has no case.
Load it, fire it, and for get it.
Once upon a time flints were re-usable as well, no need for those new fangled percussion caps.
Against the gunbuster signs? Yup.
Against the Texas 30.06 sign? Nope, don’t want to be a felon.
For the places that post gunbusters, I ignore. They have a legal and prescribed way to prevent concealed carry if they so choose, but they have to follow the law, just as I do. If they don’t follow the law, I don’t have to follow their fake sign.
Full tapes seem to have been posted by New Haven Register:
https://soundcloud.com/new-haven-register
Call 3, you can hear some of the shots in the background. I feel terrible just hearing it, even so long after the fact. Physically ill, even. I don’t understand how anyone can listen and believe that our children should have to sit helpless, waiting for death, while the adult men and women in whom they trust are limited to clutching a phone and watching down the hallway, hoping that the cavalry will somehow arrive in time to save them. Or worse, hoping that maybe they can stay standing long enough to absorb some of the bullets with their own body, and purchase at terrible cost a few more seconds of life for those in their care.
All that gibberish tells us what? Not a darn thing (in my opinion) other that this is what this bullet did, this day, out of this gun, in this media. SO?? I’m tired of marketing slickery that attempts to lead us to believe that we can BUY security in a box. If the stuff is SOOOO good, why don’t they give an unconditional gaurantee that only one shot form thse new King Kong Killers will stop an attacker.
There is so much more to stopping an attack other than bullets. Can you actually hit what you are aiming at for example.
Technology is NOT a replacement for hard earned skills.
Experimentation done with tangible results, now known as gibbersh. Thank you for clarifying.
Buuurn.
“Technology is NOT a replacement for hard earned skills.”
Why not have both skills and proven tech?
Especially since we’re not going to find too many AARs and autopsy reports from DGU teeny-neeny cases. Not enough to build an incontrovertible picture.
I don’t know any good operators who don’t want to optimize their weapon and ammunition characteristics. Even if they can perforate a moving perp’s pupil 10 out of ten at 50 yards.
Which is why the FBI has these standardized tests.
I ccw,and yes I ignore most signs due to the fact that I have an enhanced ccw license in Mississippi,and part of the law states that we don’t have to follow these signs,due to the enhanced license.Also if you carry concealed people won’t know you are armed,so I do not feel that we are giving gun owners a bad name,plus I really don’t care in the end as long as I can protect my family,myself,or others whose lives are in danger,I have no compassion for political correctness when it comes to saving lives!Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry.
The timing of the release is all you need to know about why these were released. This is build-up for all of the grave-standing to come as we approach the anniversary.
Nobody knows where I may or may not carry a gun, that’s the beautiful thing about it…
I will carry wherever I please because my life is more important than their false sense of safety. I consider the risk vs. reward (is it worth it to carry in a certain restricted area just to have my gun even though the chances are really slim that ANYthing will happen at all and the chances are very high that I could be caught… I won’t carry) Otherwise to HELL with all those stupid signs. Going to the mall? I carry. Restaurant? I’ll have an extra side of .45 please. On school grounds? You can thank me for ignoring stupidity after I fought the sick bastard to the death that was trying to kill your kids. Hopes are of course these things will never happen.. But they do. That’s just how I feel
I feel our best approach is to be as lowkey about the Newtown anniversary as possible. Quietly respectful. Let the fence sitters see how sick the bloody shirt waving is.
Wave the bloody shirt NATIONWIDE!!! Why do you think they’re so desperate to get all our guns?
FEINSTEIN: “Mr. and Mrs. America, TURN ‘EM IN!”
I bought a few polymer-cased .223s years ago. Haven’t had the nerve to shoot ’em.
Started carrying my LC9 on my runs and dog walks after seeing a large (to me) black bear cross the road less than 30 yards away in my neighborhood. It looked at me, saw my dogs going nuts, and kept right on going like nothing was the matter. They’re fairly accustomed to humans in the panhandle, which is never a good thing when it comes to predatory wildlife.
I know the 9 isn’t much against a bear, but it’s better than nothing and there’s plenty of other critters, both 2, 4 and 0 legged running around florida that occupy my mind when I’m out running around.
Those calls don’t sound real, and forensic audio analysis has already indicated manipulation of the tapes (you’ll be hearing more about that soon). However, for those who eagerly lap up the official story about things, the confirmation bias has already set in. Let’s say for a second that the calls are legit. Someone please explain how there were no survivors and all victims had head wounds (source: CT chief medical examiner), when the 911 calls describe a woman who was shot in the foot and was being helped by a male staff member. You’ll have to weave a good tale to explain that (remember, 6 adult female victims, all with head wounds). Unfortunately and yet conveniently, no sturdy eyewitness accounts exist, as everyone who encountered Lanza was also killed by him. Guess we’ll just have to trust big bro on this. *cough*
Too much jibber jabber.
Yeah, 49% is too high, especially in urban areas. We need to knock it down to 35%. People need to understand that its the drug war not guns that are responsible for much of the homicide. Moreover, if we are going to legalize drugs, and I think we are, you are going to want to carry a weapon to fend off the addicts. Not only that, liberals who hate stop and frisk don’t seem to fathom that if carry is legal, merely having a weapon is not probable cause to stop someone.
I’m with you guys 110% with the comments and all. But seriously, did anyone really expect anything different from this administration?
offender will probably stick to burglarizing gun free zones in the future thanks to this valuable lesson
A problem that’s already been solved:
http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/training-safety-gear/chamber-safety-flags/ar-15-chamber-safety-flag-prod16651.aspx
I don’t see the point. If they cost about 25-40c per round, they have potential. But I can buy .308 Winchester once-fire-brass from fullbore target shooters at 200 for $10. Each time I use them costs half a cent.
I picked up over 500 5.56 cases when the army used our range for an exercise. Plus once-fired Winchester commercial brass at 10 cents each (1 cent per use). I’m set for brass for very long time.
She don’t get that much of the 2nd A is about Asymmetrical warfare. Statist libtards (democrats) don’t like that part. You can guess why.
Like to see you do that with your plastic AR.
Give them enough leeway and they will eventually say little Timmy’s Attention Deficit Disorder means he can never own a weapon. If not that, then consider how many young people today are considered to be “on the spectrum” of Autism.
I’m not entirely familiar with what a felon has to go through to get their right to bear arms reinstated, but it seems to me it should be a streamlined process if they have done their time. Really I don’t know how it helps anyone that people who have done their time continue to be considered second class citizens. If we didn’t do that the rate of recidivism might not be so high.
You all should read the actual opinion ( http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/196727151?access_key=key-23wkyh36zqeakbiq8xz6&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll ) I have never before seen an opinion so full of WIN for gun rights. Yes, the judge says that Chicago can enact other regulations short of a ban, but the regulations being spoken of is requiring security measure on gun stores, if Chicago truly is worried about gun store burglaries. It is a really good read, I recommend it. I can’t believe it coming from this district.