American exceptionalism. It’s a thing, right? America is a constitutional democracy. Our foundational document is a laundry list of things the government can’t do (save the directive requiring the President to protect our borders).Yes, we have more guns — and more firearms related injury and death — than other “developed” countries (assuming Mexico isn’t developed). So what? So maybe we should be more like Germany?

That’s what Carl Nasman’s video above suggests. He reckons German gun control is effective! You Tube star Jorge Sprave agrees.

Which is a bit of a change from ye olde “the U.S. should have gun control like the UK.’s” (or Australia’s). I wonder why U.S. gun control advocates don’t point to Germany as a role model for U.S. gun control? Hmmm. Something to do with the Nazis perhaps?

Which begs the quesiton, do we have anything to learn from German gun laws?

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

98 COMMENTS

  2. More seriously… There is no constitutional right to firearm ownership or self-defense in Germany. One fellow was literally restricted to harsh language as he watched a mass-shooting unfold across the street from his apartment. Gun owners dare not let themselves be known as such, and hunting/sport-shooting is the subject you don’t bring up in polite company. No thanks. Keep that $#!+. I’ll keep my civil rights, thank-you.

    • Nonsense. Just like the USA, it totally depends on the company you keep. I’ve had plenty of pleasant conversations about hunting and sport shooting in Germany with Germans. Go to any southern German style restaurant and you’ll find FAR FAR FAR more wild game on the menu than 99.999% American restaurants (Arby’s doesn’t count cause that stuff is barely edible).

      Sure they have more restrictions but they are not like the Brits when it comes to talking about guns or hunting.

      • I actually heard those words from the mouth of a German, so it is not ‘nonsense’. Maybe you are correct in saying that there are places and groups where you can talk about the hunting, but there are clearly a lot where you might get yourself in trouble.

  3. Let’s model our gun laws on a country with the strongest history of government oppression and genocide. Brilliant.

    As the guy said, Germany does not think civilians should use guns for self defense. The government wants the right to oppress its people whenever it feels like it.

    • “Letโ€™s model our gun laws on a country with the strongest history of government oppression and genocide.”

      That would be China first (60M+), the USSR second (30M+), and Germany a poor third (10M).

      Don’t fall into the trap of Nazis being the worst. Marxians murdered 10 times as many civilians. It astounds me how many self-declared Marxians teach at colleges, and how many are still murdering civilians around the world, while a single skinhead evokes Presidential horror and condemnation.

      • The country that is the size of Montana being compared to China and Russia. Ok, keep licking the Nazi boot.

      • I don’t think that Groucho, Harpo, Cheeko, Gummo, or Zeppo murdered NEARLY that many people. Oh, you’re thinking of MarxIST. . . That was Karl, Hermann, Edouard, and Mauritz. THEY were ‘Marxist.’ Not nearly as funny, either.
        Frankly, MORE colleges should hire declared Marxians.
        “I once shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he knew about Dialectical Materialism I’ll never know.”

  4. Should the world be like Germany? Gas chambers, national socialism, two world wars, Merkel, Islamization…maybe not. Over to you.

    • Germany is no more — and possibly less — subseptible to human rights violations than any other country. They’ve had the Nazi era rubbed in their face for a long time, and as far as I can tell they’ve been compesating for it ever since. Yes, Nazi ideology was pure evil, but that era should define Germans as much as slvaery should define white Americans today. Germany has contributed throughout its history to civilation and shouldn’t be smeared with the horror of about one decade. Enough is enough.

      Just FYI, I have zero German ancestry anwhere, I’m just saying let’s focus on real threats to human rights. Also, feel free to correct me.

      • “…but that era should define Germans as much as slvaery should define white Americans today.”

        Ummm…. You do realize there’s a significant chunk of the US population, both white and non-, that tries to do just that on a regular basis.

        To be honest, that kind of vitriol has done more to give me racist attitudes as an adult, than anything I ever experienced growing up. Leaves a bad taste in my brain.

        • Just because “a significant chunk of the US population” thinks something doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea. This, in my opinion and for various reasons, is one of them.

        • Sorry for my slowness, but what does Greece have to do with this? Also, if I wasn’t clear, I do not consider German society or government or laws a model.

      • You are correct…. but hundreds of thousands of white americans died to end American slavory….. how many Germans died taking up arms against the NAZI’s?…… I don’t know the number but a hell of a lot more American’s died fighting for German liberty durring that decade than Germans died fighting the NAZI’s…… so, yes their attitudes are inferior to American attitudes when it comes to liberty, and I agree that they carry that shame around today and rightfully so.

        • I wouldn’t go so far as to say they should carry their shame around for generations, but your other points are spot on.

        • Ummmm. . . “Several hundred thousand white (and black) Americans died fighting to force, by military invasion, several million other Americans (including several hundred thousand other white [and black] Americans who also died) back into a rather loose confederation of otherwise-independent states, joined tentatively together by a series of non-binding gentlemen’s agreements, who didn’t want to submit to the overweening power of a, to them, foreign government even though the quasi-legal documents constituting the rather loose confederation of states did not expressly forbid, nor authorize military force to counteract, any attempt at dissolution or secession.”

          There, FIFY.

    • You either need a comma between ‘republic’ and ‘second’ or you need a period and start a new sentence with ‘Second,’. And a comma is needed after ‘second’ either way.

  6. Yeah…that whole, the nazis disarmed people then put them in gas chambers, sort of undercuts the Germany as a model for gun control argument. That is likely the reason the anti gunners don’t go there first and stick with Australia and Britain…of course, British gun crime is up 27%, again, and up 42% in London….and Australian gun control hasn’t stopped their increasing gun crime….

    • What?

      Those “peaceful immigrants” they invited inside their borders?

      *snicker*

      (Their women will get an education on multi-multiculturalism of the most *intimate* kind. A broken jaw and knocked-out teeth to go with their un-planned insemination.)

  8. If Germany had U.S. style gun laws (2nd Amendment, etc) Jorge Sprave would be building homemade GUNS instead of slingshots.

  9. First question to ask any โ€œcountryโ€ about its gun laws. โ€œDo u believe an individual has the absolute right to self defense against individuals and the governmentโ€. If there is a pregnant pause….then no, no I donโ€™t want your ideas or opinions on our laws.

  10. I wouldn’t support any such move to be more like Germany but I would point out a few of things that the video brings up.

    First, as Jorge Sprave points out: The government of Germany tells people they cannot use a gun for self defense. The idea is that it’s “government’s job” to do such things, not yours. This speaks to the gulf between the German and American philosophy of not just government but the relationship between citizens, government and the world in general. Like many European countries Germany places a lot more faith in the abilities of their government to prevent/respond than Americans do. Call it a “cultural thing” if you will.

    Secondly (and somewhat related), Germany is a reasonably large country in European terms but it’s also only around 80 million people in terms of total population, less than 1/3rd that of the US. Those 80 million or so people live in about 135K square miles. The USA is something like 3.8 million square miles. So here in the USA we have something like 3.9 times the population living in an area 27 times larger. That’s going to, by necessity, create different circumstances and therefore different opinions.

    Third, as usual, American gun laws are somewhat misrepresented/misunderstood here. One cannot “just walk into a store and buy a gun” in the USA. I’ve met a lot of Europeans, Australians and Kiwis who think this is the case but, as we all know, it is not.

    I won’t bother to repeat a lot of what’s posted here on TTAG on a regular basis, but there are a few fairly simple ways to seriously reduce “gun violence”. They’re not PC though and cases such as suicide they may actually be pretty hard to implement which is why they’re not going to happen any time soon.

    • ‘The idea is that itโ€™s โ€œgovernmentโ€™s jobโ€ to do such things, not yours.’

      And if the government fails to do that job it’s your duty to die.

    • The big difference to which you allude is that in Germany, it is the duty of the government to protect the people, in the U.S. the government has no duty–established in court cases all the way to the Supreme Court–to protect anyone. I was reminded of this while watching Blue Bloods last night, where the leader of a white racist group that had set up in a black neighborhood (purported;y to fight the black drug gangs) was telling Danny Reagan that the police had to protect them. It simply isn’t true. This was demonstrated yet again in the Rancho Tehama shooting this past week, where the response time is about 45 minutes on a typical day, and where it may take more than an hour to call in extra officers from neighboring counties to assist the very small sheriff’s department staff in the extreme circumstances that occurred. Here, we are on our own, often enough even in the big cities.

      • Cops don’t have the duty and really, so far as I can tell, generally don’t care too much about most stuff unless it gets them media recognition.

        Example: Last night my neighbors threw a party. This morning I go outside and find that someone hit and ran my motorcycle and totaled it (Coincidence? Maybe, but I doubt it). Whoever it was hit the bike so hard that it was spun around and up on the sidewalk. So I called the cops to get a report that I can file with insurance. 3+ hours later I’m still waiting for a cop to show up to take the report. Oh, and I live in a small town so it’s not like they’re off investigating murders or something.

      • “The big difference to which you allude is that in Germany, it is the duty of the government to protect the people, in the U.S. the government has no dutyโ€“established in court cases all the way to the Supreme Courtโ€“to protect anyone.”

        Thank you for making that point.
        We are constantly being told to call 911 if we find ourselves needing to defend ourselves. We are told this by the police, who, as you point out, have no duty to protect us. Irony defined.
        Even if I find my home being attacked, and I do call 911, response time in my city for a 911 call is 7-10 minutes. Try watching a clock, counting off 7 minutes, imagining what someone can do in those 7 minutes.

        On another point, the German saying that the German government says citizens can’t defend themselves (even in a deadly threat) is wrong. Google is your friend. Stand your ground is real in more countries than we are led to believe. Even in Britain and Australia, stand your ground is embedded in law.
        As opposed to the US, where stand your ground is explicitly forbidden in some states (unless there is no way of escape).

    • Germany has always rejected natural rights going all way back to Hagel and Marx. Their nonsense has been infesting or shores since American “intellectuals” went over there to get PHD’s.

    • “So here in the USA we have something like 3.9 times the population living in an area 27 times larger.”

      Be *very* careful slinging that statistic, Strych. It makes the point for the grabbers that you don’t need to be armed in the city, since a cop literally is “seconds away” by distance.

      (Might I may add, I’d *love* to hear from German beat cops about their opinions of their new ‘peaceful immigrants’…)

  11. Nein!

    Plus, we already took a lesson from Germany. It’s called the 1968 gun control act which was a carbon copy of the gun control law passed in 1935 by the Nazis.

    Yes, our government and the NRA thought a Nazi gun control law would be a good idea and then they rammed it down our throats.

    I’m f$&@! tired of emotional idiot freedom-hating Americans trying to make us be more like Europe.

  12. So let’s start with Germany is around the size of Montana or New Mexico and has about 82 million residents. They also have a sizable military and police presence that allows them to be more readily available to respond to emergencies. There’s a huge difference towards dealing with large, complex issues like this when comparing the USA and countries in Europe. In the mostly rural Oregon county I live in the Sheriff has openly said that they may not be able to respond to an emergency for over an hour so plan accordingly.

      • The very definition defines that…

        “Constitutional republic

        A constitutional republic is a state where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government’s power over citizens.”

        • The Constitution of the USSR was actually a list of things the government was supposed to provide. It didn’t attempt to really impose any limits on the power of the government.

        • ‘The Constitution of the USSR was actually a list of things the government was supposed to provide…’

          How is that different than our constitution or that of any other nation? Our Constitution grants ‘powers’ to the federal government and our Bill of Rights enumerates rights of the people and bars the government from infringing on those rights. At the least the Soviet Constitution featured our First Amendment guaranteeing the freedom of speech, press, assembly and religion. Which only goes to show that the Constitution isn’t worth the paper it’s written on if those in power refuse to honor it, and that not all ‘constitutional republics’ feature a democratic process.

        • The notion that the word “democracy” or “democratic” make a difference is ironic, considering the communistic tradition of putting that word into their countries’ names.
          Not all, but quite a few of them.

        • “โ€˜The Constitution of the USSR was actually a list of things the government was supposed to provideโ€ฆโ€™
          How is that different than our constitution or that of any other nation?”

          Well, Gov, in our constitution (as you well know), our government is not only tasked with certain things, but it is also strictly enjoined form doing anything the constitution doesn’t expressly say it can do.
          (I understand that our government routinely oversteps its bounds, but in understanding that, I also have the right/duty to vote for people who will bring that government back within the bounds set out by the constitution.)(And yes, I am also routinely frustrated in that right/duty.)

  15. First of all, this blather is typical anti gun talking points that ALWAYS use LIES and deception for their fact base. Starting with the LIE of homicide deaths per capita. The death rate by gun, when you look at the TRUTH witch is without the gang/drug related cases and suicides the US drops to like 40th IN THE WORLD. Governments “protecting” their citizens has a wonderful track record (actually flawless) of democide. Second the FACT that in EVERY democrat gun controlled utopia the violence rates with guns is at times an order of magnitude greater than everywhere else in the country (Chicago, Detroit, LA etc.) Now consider in almost EVERY state where the constitution is NOT crapped upon by power mad democrats BOTH the violent crime and death rates are below the democrat wonderlands. The FBI statistics plainly and clearly show “gun control” ALWAYS plays a factor in elevated death by gun numbers. And finally we are in NO way a “democracy, PERIOD”, we are a constitutional republic. If you don’t know and understand what that means just STFU and educate your self.

  17. We wouldnโ€™t be talking about gun control but for dindus and democrats. Dindus commit most of the crimes and shootings, and democrats are generally mentally deranged and commit the spectacular shootings.

    A homogenous society of normal people not prone to violence or self-loathing is a safe society.

  18. Symbolism, if nothing else! The government may only exercise the power given it by the people. The guns and Second Amendment in the peoples control symbolizes power. Some people would take guns away in order to prove the government is the supreme power. We must never let that happen!

      • They didn’t call it fascism then, but the Kaiser’s Germany was close enough. I believe our motto was ‘Make the world safe for democracy.’

        • When it comes to the word ‘democracy’ there are a lot of people who forget that words can have multiple meanings. Sometimes totally different meanings and sometimes subtly nuanced differences. Dictionary.com says democracy is; ‘government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.’ Seeing as how America was/is a democracy by the latter definition, I suspect that is the definition they meant by ‘Making the world safe for democracy’. There really is only one other form of government, that being dictatorship (although most governments seem to mix the two in varying ratios).

          BTW, RF’s labeling of our country as a ‘constitutional democracy’ is accurate.

  21. Germany has no freedom of speech and still applies a law that was written by Nazi’s which jails people for homeschooling. How about not!

  22. Nope…how’s about we remove our nuclear protection from you krauts while we’re at it?!? You make me ashamed to be half German.๐Ÿ˜ซ

  23. WTF are you thinking?!

    Hellllllll no!

    Europe is a cesspool of of frustrated attempts to rule the world and stamp out individual will.

    I will take uncertainty over the security of nanny-state government with its boot on my neck any day.

    Europe in general and Germany in particular will be looking for an avenue to divest themselves of undesiables in their midst. Sounds familiar doesn’t it.

    I`ll take our Constituional Republic any day. Long live the Republic.

  24. The human right of self defense where forbidden by a tyrannical government is an insult to freedom. Some people are content to live under that kind of government, but those who love liberty will either seek a new home where freedom is valued, or attempt to change their government. As time goes by more Europeans will employ stealth followup to active self defense, but it will never be enough to stem the tide of the invading Islamic horde that they themselves invited.

  25. I made it to 2:28 before the stupid hurt too much and I bailed.

    It’s just the same tired, cherry-picked stats, graphics and arguments over and over…

    As an added bonus this clip (see what I did there) had annoying audio effects as well.

  26. To summarize the article…. ” See! They have all these laws and still own guns so how bad can it be and why don’t we just add some more laws.”

    And I always answer that question with a question of my own…. Do you support voter ID laws? If not why not? If adding a few more laws on guns is ok why can’t we add a few laws on voting?

  27. There is no other developed country that has an established gang culture like the US. Less you think I am just talking about today’s inner city street gangs, the American gang culture dates back to the pre Civil War era. Our entenched gang culture is responsible for most of our violent crime and it makes any kind of prohibition a non starter. If we adopted Getmany’s gun laws we would end up looking more like Mexico than Germany. We can have no honest discussion of violent crime and guns until we admit that we have an historical gang culture which underpins America’s higher rate of murder and violent crime.

    • “If we adopted Getmanyโ€™s gun laws we would end up looking more like Mexico than Germany.”

      Yes, gangs and cartels would be de facto rulers of much of America. We are already looking at this scenario in Chicago were the politicians and city leaders are puppets of the gangs. The police are crippled by the city government in order to protect the gangs ruining the city.

      • And Baltimore. Don’t forget Baltimore.
        A city where the gangs and their Democratic enablers have so cowed the police that they are afraid to enforce the law for fear of being dragged into both the court of law and public opinion.
        Their violent crime rate has risen dramatically since the riots (er, the time of unrest where people were given the space to display their frustrations), and crime resolution has dropped.
        A city where the gangs (composed mostly of blacks and their enablers) have certainly taken over both the government and law enforcement in reality if not in name.

  28. Absolutely. Remove silencers from the NFA and encourage their use. They are almost a requirement in Germany. Other than that, no.

  29. One thing everyone, particularly gun control advocates, seems to forget is that the US is unlike any other country in the world. We decided we wanted to be free men rather than subjects, and sucessfully gained that freedom with blood. And we have a constitution designed to limit the government. The rest of the world, for the most part, still thinks of themselves as subjects. Which is why they tolerate limited rights and oppressive governments. They are good little sheep who do what their rulers tell them to do, and do their best to stay out of trouble. And Germany still carries the collective guilt from WWII.

    The US has maintained an attitude that freedom comes first, though it seems to be dying as progressivism takes hold. The government takes more and more of our natural rights, and millenials continue to move towards subjugation.

  30. Here are some statistics from Gunpolicy.org for Germany:

    Number of registered (i.e. legal) guns in civilians hands per 100 people: 7.22

    Estimated number of illicit guns per 100 people:

    In what insane fever dream can a gun control regime that leaves enough illegal guns on the street to put one in nearly every household, enough to outnumbered legally owned guns more than 3 to 1, be considered effective?

    If anything is clear from these numbers, it’s that whatever the reasons for Germany’s low rate of gun violence, it isn’t gun control.

  31. Germany is the last place we should be taking lectures from. They have rejected natural rights pretty much since the American, British and French revolutions.

  32. The U.K. could learn a thing or two from Germany’s gun laws, maybe, but “Shall not be infringed” works just fine for me.

  34. There are TWO absolute principles that brought this country to power the right of the people to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical government, and to worship their ” God”. The gun and the Bible founded this country. It’s obvious to anyone understanding the history that today’s government is bent on destroying those principles at any cost.

  35. They just had to point our GOP and NRA at the end. Never any mention of Dems or antigunners and their history of overreaching which has gave the NRA a serious purpose in the first place. The video lost all credibility. It wasn’t a far fall though.

  36. A lot of you guys are retarded and over thinking it. It is the Indian, not the arrow. A .44mag is not required. Even a lowley Glock 19 shooting 124gr hsts should be good for over 12 inches of penetration. How much penetration do you really think is needed to kill a deer? If a 9mm can penetrate a person at 50 yards, I’m pretty sure it is gtg on a common white tail at a similar distance assuming you can make the hit at that distance. These animals aren’t exactly rhinos clad in heavy thick skin and muscle. At the common sub 100 yard (usually in the neighborhood of 45ish yards) distances most deer are shot in the Eastern US, even a. 308 is over kill. If your marksmanship is capable, you could easily get by hunting taking noggin shots with a .22lr rifle.

  37. You guys do realize the GCA 1968 was based on the Nazi Era waffengesetz right? We literally have Nazi gun control laws. Gca ’68 was a damn near verbatim of the 3rd Reich’s waffengesetz, which actually loosened firearms regulations in Germany when compared to the post WWI Weimar Era waffengesetz.

  39. This guy is complaining about gun violence/gun homicides. I support gun violence and gun homicides. “Justifiable” gun violence and gun homicides. Like when an HIV infected rapist breaks into your house when only your wife is there.

    So… No. And it sounds like Germany sucks.

  41. There is a reason why US military had to kick Germanyโ€™s ass twice in a century!

    So do we need to be more like the Germans? No, hell no!

    Watched the movie A Band Of Brothers this past weekend, and had a whole new appreciation for being born on American soil!
    My great grandpa was 9 months old when he got off the boat from Germany. My great grandma was from England. They originally lived in Fredericksburg but even they couldnโ€™t tolerate the Germans and moved to Mason Texas and started ranching

  42. Why can’t I get the Abby Scuito ad by risingstarnewspaper off my screen? I hit that X over and over, still taking up half my screen.
    Now I remember why I return to this site so rarely anymore.

      • Anything is better than the constant barrage of toenail fungus ads, complete with nauseating photographs, that we used to endure. I do miss learning about the simple tricks that master marksmen use to improve their shooting ten times over; though. It doesn’t help to learn about famous people who died and nobody noticed, either.
        I have, however, removed my eye bags and lip wrinkles successfully. I used a simple trick that master marksmen. . .

  43. Uh oh guys. I think Farrago has been replaced with a pod person, because the real one would know that the USA is nether a democracy, constitutional or otherwise, nor is that constitution a list of things the government can’t do save for amendments 1, 2, 4, 5, 7 and 8 (the rest being perscriptions of the way in which the government is to go about doing certain things.)

    What the constitution is, for anyone who doesn’t know, is a list of the things the federal government can do, which more or less boils down to the regulation of interstate and international commerce, and anything both necessary and proper for the existence of the country (that is, things which must be done and can’t be done another way, such as declaring and carrying out wars.)

    Glaring factual inaccuracies aside, no, the US does not need to be more like any country with regards to its gun laws. Once again I must conclude that RF has been replaced with an evil clone, because the real one wouldn’t even consider posing that question. I won’t bother writing here the many reasons why gun control is at best a completely worthless pursuit that only makes law abiding citizens into criminals, and at worst a way to increase crimes of all kinds, because doing so would be preaching to the choir. I only mention it because the author of this article is supposed to be a member of that choir and yet evidently no longer is.

  44. Germany is a 3rd world hellhole where the citizens are merely prey for their politicians and bureaucrats. The Constitutional Government of the United States has nothing to learn from the Germans. The People can learn to never ever concede an inch of the Second Amendment however. Even if it means all out war and the death of every gun-ban zealot out there.

  45. No. “shall not be infringed” should be fully honored .

    The Government should be keeping (with due process) the dangerously mentally ill and violent felons incarcerated so they don’t pose a threat to society.

    Then we can “regulate” the militia (firearms safety and marksmanship training for everyone – especially while in high school). It shouldn’t be mandatory, only available to all.

  46. America is a Democratic REPUBLIC.

    Germany is a dying star about to collapse into a black hole muslim horde. When it goes, we won’t even be able to hear the cries of their indigenous citizenry crying for ailifted arms.

    Funny (ironic), WE will be asked soon to rescue Germany from the EU / N. Africa / the middle east. And we’ll be busy fighting China down to the point that we can give it back to Japan to enslave to keep it from being a pain in the ass. Huh.

    • ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ

      That’s the line,
      beyond which lies the realm of infinte FU, and bad outcomes.

  48. I like the conflation of self defense and murder.

    I suppose their attempt is something, but they fall very short only scratching the surface, keeping it about guns instead of bothering to go into any other aggravating factors. If you really want to have a conversation and analyze the problem, taking about only one factor won’t get you anywhere.

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