Let me get this out of the way first. Thank you Mr. Sage Dynamics for shooting and moving while exploring your theory that the Mozambique drill (two to the chest, one to the head) is overly dogmatic. Where you aim has a LOT to do with where you are and what you’re doing. If you’re shooting while moving – really moving – aiming for the head at anything other than bad breath distance is a fool’s errand. And maybe even then. And if you’re that close, why not move in for a contact shot? I know: pressing a semi against someone could put the gun out of battery, rendering it useless. But how often does that happen vs. eliminating the possibility of missing and/or hitting an unintended target? In a school for example, I’d be tempted to go in for a contact shot – to the head. Otherwise, body shots every time. Am I wrong?
On the move I aim for the largest mass, not on the move I train for head shots.
Trick question, you don’t aim you point. If you have to “aim” don’t pull the trigger. If your attacker can be had by pointing, fire for effect.
aim verb \ˈām\ : to point (a weapon) at a target
There are different levels of aiming.
Ok, if you can read your Webster’s while moving to make a shot, then “aim”.
Other than that it’s all Catholic Grammar School Basketball, seeith the rim, shootith.
If you need to use your sights, transition to your rifle. If you need to use your sights on your rifle, transition to your extraction point.
That’s about as herp-derp as it gets.
That was aimed fire. I could have easily made that a mozambique in the remaining time.
If you have to ask, you’re doing it wrong.
You aim at the center of the exposed threat. Doesn’t necessarily mean the thoracic cavity. If the threat is only exposing the upper right half of their body hit them here you have the greatest chance of having your round take effect on them. If all they are exposing is there head, hit their head. If all they are exposing is a leg from behind cover hit them there. Don’t let a oppurtunity by because they haven’t presented a prime target. If for whatever reason your rounds hitting the target are not having an effect adjust your aim elsewhere.
Or get closer.
Moving closer to the target so you can get in a better position to use lethal force is most likely going to be used against you in the court of law. Your goal is to disengage the threat whether via incapacitation or moving away from the threat. In a DGU we are not police officers or military personnel our goal is to not take the threat down but to stay alive. If you can move closer to the threat you most likely can move away from it as well.
Agreed… sort of… what about a defense of others situation, or an intruder?
Jarhead I can’t reply to you directly so I’ll just respond here.
In the defense of others you honestly don’t need to move closer if you’ve already engaged the aggressor. Once you engage them the aggressors attention will be soley focused on you, the now imminent threat to them. It’s not going to be a hostage situation or anything you see in the moves/TV. You’re going to yell “Get away from them” and draw your weapon at this point I highly doubt the aggressor will ignore someone pointing a gun at them and continue their business.
For an intruder inside the home you shouldn’t be moving at all unless you have children in another room. Even if you do have children you want to move towards them not the intruder. Take cover behind something that will protect you and those you care about and make sure 911 has been called and are on the way. Your goal at that point is to hunker down and ensure that nothing comes into the room through the doorway.
cross shot- this is in response to your reply to jarhead. I don’t know who you meant to warn by saying get away from them.(criminal or victim)? If you are saying that to the thug why would you warn them and escalate the situation with words. You are taking away your tactical advantage in that scenario. The only way the criminal should know he was confronted by an armed citizen is when it is assuming room temperature. As a concealed carrier we are not police and have absolutely no duty to warn or arrest them.
Aim to brain them.
Cross shot- What you said doesn’t always make sense. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. If someone falters on their attempt to take down good American citizens, you better believe I’m going to take advantage of whatever terrain and tactics I have access to. Running away can only do so much. If they have a gun, range will overwhelm a runner. You get a 6/10 for the trolling effort.
What if they are blocking your exit? If I need to move closer to gets shots on target or to eliminate chance of innocents being behind the target then I don’t see how that is wrong.
What about the shooter in the Colorado theater? If a guy comes in shooting random people, I am going to try to flank him in the dark and get a close head shot given that he appeared to be wearing armor.
The way my rooms are set up in the house I dont have another way to avoid my wife and kids getting hit through the walls and such unless I advance, but I do see your point.
I think headshots are greatly overrated as it’s a difficult shot due to movement and size. In training you should practice it, however you should also be able to do a chest double-tap and transition to the pelvis, which is a larger target and isn’t quite as wobbly as the head or zipper them up from the pelvis to the head.
The pelvis and chest are not directing the perp’s gun at you, his eyes and brain are in control. Practice head shots, full body mass targeting comes easy after you are proficient at head shots. Of course distance and target mobility come into play, but still, practice head shots. Also heads don’t have ceramic plates hidden under their shirts.
Worked in Ferguson MO.
Shots to the pelvis are underrated. Great way to put someone on the ground without having to try for the head. They may still be able to fire but will be at a significant disadvantage.
#1 rule in a gun fight…don’t get shot. If you have to run, duck, dive, shoot from cover, fire suppression so you can close, shoot on the move, all are as important as shot placement. Paper don’t shoot back.
I don’t want them to have ANY advantage.
An alternative to shooting in the head if he’s wearing armor is to shoot at the pelvis area near where it intersects with the leg, you can hit the femoral artery or hope to at least immobilize him
Not the pelvis thing again.
That just made my day well played sir
actually, due to the likelihood of hitting the Pelvis bone, shooting someone below the belt can be quite painstakingly effective.
David Koresh was shot in the pelvis and he lingered until the FBI murdered them all with fire.
Sure, why not move in for a sure shot at bad breath range. It’s not like movement is going to buy you much at 3′ At that range you can move a whole 0.6″ against a slow round like a 45 ACP if you can get going at 10mph. If you were already moving why would be that close to the guy? With any kind of warning I am moving away from trouble.
Good questions. I have heard from one CCW instructor that “some” local LEOs are saying shoot one or two to pelvis, if two to chest doesnt stop (ie vest). Theory being large caliber will break bone and/or cause disabling pain there, vs a miss or graze to head.
Sounds brutal but effective. Easier to shoot that larger target from a distance, after “shoot first two, center mass, pause and lower sights slightly to assess” drill, than a head shot, too. Especially while on the move, to cover.
I have issues with the Mozambique drill. If you are proficient enough to do two in the chest and then one in the head why even do the two in the chest? It’s like wasting bullets. More than likely a head shot will be fatal so why bother with the chest shots. It just does not seem practical but I admit I could be wrong. This is supposed to be a conversation that proves TTAG is not a echo chamber.
You’d be surprised how hard some people’s heads can be. Combat-Anatomically speaking, there’s a huge difference between a head shot and a deep brain shot.
Skipping a round off someone’s sloped forehead will certainly cause them issues – removal of scalp and shock to the frontal lobes (which is responsible for the ‘up on toes’ response you hear about – but it’s not necessarily going to immediately stop somebody, and you don’t want to risk that if they’ve got their finger on a trigger (because the resulting spasm will probably make them pull the trigger). There’s quite a lot of face that isn’t necessary to survival, too.
A deep brain shot (again, combat-anatomically speaking) is more of the immediately light-switch response most people are looking for, but to get there you have to go through a LOT of meat and bone. There’s a couple of shortcuts and holes filled with soft tissue that’ll help you chances, but they’re a lot smaller targets than just “head shot”.
Similarly, people have talked (whether they knew it or not) about shooting the pelvic girdle. That’s a bigger target, but moving. The goal there isn’t to make them bleed out or cause pain, it’s to put a crack in the bone that supports 100% of their upper body weight. If the structural integrity of the girdle is compromised, the next movement is going to be “to the ground”. It’s not an incapacitator (because they can still shoot you), but it will stop a charge.
“In the Chest” is pretty close to “center of mass”, and there’s all sorts of things that can be shot in there that will (eventually) put someone down, but aside from this spinal cord, nothing necessarily immediate. Google Officer Stacey Lim, who was shot in the heart with a .357 magnum, and not only lived, but kept fighting long enough to put her assailant down and call for help.
All that said, I would never want to be in court with a prosecutor going “So you practiced something called a ‘mozambique’ drill? Did you happen to use BLACK targets? HRMMM?!? RACIST!”. As you said, if I’m going to be proficient, I want to be proficient in effective things, not dogmatic things.
Gotta say though, if you have someone held at gunpoint, the pelvis is a good initial aiming point. If they do something immediately aggressive (which they’ll think twice about while you’ve got a gun pointed at their junk) a snap shot has a decent chance of dropping them to the floor, and you aren’t blocking your own vision of his upper body, hands, or eyes.
Shandower – I found all that very informative. Thanks.
That was a good post but the last paragraph made me laugh out loud. I move that we rename the “Mozambique drill” to the “Save Bunnies drill” or something less charged. Maybe “The Defense is correct drill” so the prosecutor won’t even bring it up.
You’ve never done a Mozambique drill. That shot to the head was a just a missed chest shot.
Thanks, thats quite a story on Officer Lim:
Reminds me of the movie, End of Watch.
Off duty, after a softball game, incident happened at 1:40 a.m?
My dad told me “nothing ever good happens after midnight” If she had gone home before Midnight, likely to not ever have to pull her weapon and have a 30 yr. career, like the majority of LE out there, who go their entire careers without a shooting. Just saying
So we should all be on curfew? Not my idea of freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That was the point of the video. I do the Mozambique drill as more of a transition shot drill. I also do multiple target transition drills. I think the “two to the body and one (or more) to the head” training should go more like this:
Shoot two to the body then move if you weren’t moving already. Then, from cover, take an aimed shot to the head. There would be no time limit between the two center mass shots and the last shot.
Since the head is a relatively small target compared to the body, it is harder to hit, so a initial shot there increases your odds of missing, which is bad.
The idea is that you drop the bad guy with two body shots and then go for a head shot.
There are multiple reasons why the Mozambique drill is flawed and it is not being seriously taught anymore. non-specific response to the upper thoracic cavity is far superior.
Most DGU’s will be a point-shooting distances. When the muzzle is in front of the target start squeezing.
If you happen to be far enough away that you can aim then you aim at the middlest fattest part of the thing you want to hit.
Vickers scoring doesnt apply in a DGU.
Center mass. However locally in Merrillville,Indiana a young cop was shot in the head at point blank range by a lunatic lying in wait for a cop. He died and the shooter committed suicide. And yes the cop had body armor. So yes I would think being proficient in head shots is a good idea…
Point shoot, center mass.
I recently got a chance to go to an outside range and try shooting on the move. I missed a lot at first and definitely realized that trying to hit a small target while moving left BG without damage.
Never been in or expect to be in a defensive shoot, BUT, you never know. I think rather than the two to the body and one to the head, I would go for maybe four or five to the body, if the perp had say a machete, or something that is gonna cause you a lot of hurt!
With the adrenaline rush that you would probably have, most shooters might find it difficult to control just how many rounds you put in your target.
Of primary concern, is the responsibility of getting ALL your rounds in the perp, and not down range, or in a bystander.
I am not that confident in my ability to study backdrop while someone is shooting at me. Probably my greatest fear. And there’s no such thing as practicing having people shooting at you.
“And there’s no such thing as practicing having people shooting at you.”
+ Eleventy Gazillion
That’s one of the reasons why I find over-serious discussions on this topic a bit funny. “I’ll do this…” or “The BG will do that … ” kind of thing. Oy.
We practice what we can, though.
While it is certainly true that you can’t practice having actual bullets shot at you, I can say from first hand experience that training with sim guns can get the adrenaline going and create very similar feelings of not wanting to be shot. The first time I went through simunitions training, my stress level was through the roof- like I expected it to be in a real gunfight.
After several sessions, I found myself far better able to think through the problems being thrown at me, and better able to remember the fundamentals of marksmanship instead of ducking and yanking the trigger like the emergency brake on a runaway train. When the real thing happened, as far as stress goes, it was just like another drill.
^ This. It’s why I think aiming for the pelvic girdle might be a good idea in many situations. Downward angle, less to worry about behind the target.
I’m guessing there may be some legal ramifications to shooting someone in the head, depending on the circumstances. I’m sure a DA could have a field day if he found out that you repeatedly practiced the Mozambique drill then used it claiming self defense. Shooting in the head might be considered an effort to kill as opposed to an effort to stop. That said, in an active shooter or hostage situation it might be quite appropriate if you’re capable of making the shot.
IANAL (nor do I play one on TV) but I would assume this is probably true. I wouldn’t ever assume it wouldn’t actually be this way for me, but I’d guess the more frantic and panicked your efforts to stop the bad guy appear, the less it seems you just like training to kill someone with a “wish a motherf*cka would” mentality.
“I’m sure a DA could have a field day if he found out that you repeatedly practiced the Mozambique drill then used it claiming self defense. Shooting in the head might be considered an effort to kill as opposed to an effort to stop. “
ANY shooting has the possible consequence of killing. The very act of pointing a gun at a person and pulling the trigger is called “deadly force” for a reason.
I’m not saying some DA could not try that tactic, but by that logic, any practice could be used against you similarly.
Rather than calling it “practicing head shots” call it “skills practice at a smaller cardboard target to improve my proficiency in order to lessen the chance I miss and cause injury to a bystander” or some such.
Whatever the DA tries, it’s up to your lawyer to have a good counter argument.
Well, you might want to keep those Mozambique drills on the DL just to be safe. It may not just be the DA you need to be worried about either. The threshold of proof is much lower in a civil suit. Considering most POTG carry semi-autos that can put 10 rounds on center mass at typical self defense range in about 1.2 seconds, you might want to put a couple more rounds on center mass before you go for that head shot. Of course if your assailant has already opened fire all bets are off, and even if you do face a legal quagmire, it’s a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
In a true DGU, and I’m not talking about a spree killer at the mall, but a BG jumping you on the street, are you really going to have time for a head shot?
If I expect to hit center mass, I aim about 4″ above the BG’s left shoulder, because I flinch so badly.
Practice, practice, practice!
In the junk
That’s just weak.
I no longer have the luxury or blessing of steady hands. I would empty the handgun into center mass or as close as I am able to get to it. That is what I try to do in all my practices in range and target shooting.
As a former Marine who engaged in combat and as a contractor so this is from experience…you can say where you wanna aim but in the end its instinctual to end the threat that is present in front of you.
That might be one shot or 10. Innocents will always get hurt. Thats the nature of the business.
Well said. Wish more folks appreciated this.
Center mass, pull trigger until badguy ceases to be a threat. Holster weapon, call 911.
Holster weapon, call 911.
Someday. Many places, after an attack, I won’t be waiting around.
The what drill? This is my strategy. Scuse me Mr. Criminal. Would you hold still for jez a second?
I understand what you mean by stating “In a school for example, I’d be tempted to go in for a contact shot – to the head. Otherwise, body shots every time. Am I wrong?” But you ought to rephrase that statement as to not give any anti’s ammunition against us, no pun intended.
I aim at what I know I can hit.
I shoot the gun out of his hand, then at his feet to make him dance!
The Mozambique is but one drill, not to be overdone. The Shoulder Cross, the Hipster, and the Jusshudebastid should figure into any balanced training regimen. More than any of these drills the First Light, the knack of getting your gun up before the other guy toasts you, seems essential. The Skedaddle is also underrated.
I’m really not a fan of his shoot on the move, then freeze for the reload technique in the beginning of the video.
if you are in a scrum with an armed BG who is attacking you, then you’d probably be legally justified if you capped him. But under some circumstances, a contact shot to the coconut will earn you a lifetime stay at the Graybar Hotel, like Byron Smith.
Circumstances are everything.
yep, thats another comment I found interesting, by the same CCW instructor- who trains LEOs, that a head shot can be interpreted as an execution…
So, even more important you have thought thru all the decisions leading up to the fight-
the three S’s, the legal elements of self-defense in YOUR STATE, did you initiate the fight, or re-engage, could you have run away instead?
All the many ways to be tripped up, later in court, and find yourself spending your treasure, to defend your freedom,
only to lose it, and your ability to protect your loved ones later…
IMHO, those are the scenarios and decisions that are AT LEAST as important, to game and practice,
if not more, before you ever get to “do I pull the gun, and where do I aim…”
I shoot for the genitals. Ain’t noone who wants to get shot in their privates.
Generals don’t seem to mind when you shoot their privates.
Mr. Ralph, do you hate America? Because to me it seems like that. You just equated genitals (something so filthy, shameful and ugly that we have to by law hide it from society) with the generals protecting our countries. Are you trying to say that generals and other politicians are so filthy, shameful and ugly that we should hide them by law?
Also, you have an AK on your profile picture. The AK as I am sure you know is a rifle designed by commies, made by commies and used by pretty much everyone (including commies!). So I will repeat my question: Are you an America hating commie!?
I will tell on you to the NSA. *supes serious face*
Between the wire on the noose booby trap and the dogs chewing on his legs.
I always include failure to stop drills while practicing. Draw, fire a volley in rapid succession, followed by a careful shot to the head. You may never need to take that head shot, but if you need it, like when someone is wearing heavy armor or on PCP, it will save your life. The question, I think, is how many shots center mass before you should consider it a fail to stop.
My normal carry is an LCP, only have 7, I’d propose 4. If I had 16, distance would play a role, if he’s still 10 feet away I’d probably go to 10 at least.
Please don’t assume a single headshot, especially from a handgun, will definitively end the threat. Jared Reston’s first gunfight stands as a fair example to illustrate the point.
And when you say “careful,” I read “slow.” If he’s still a threat, an imminent threat, do you have time for that careful head shot?
I’m not saying “no” applies to every case, but neither would a blanket “yes.” Circumstances are everything. No single answers, no single tactics fit every SD scenario.
CoM all day erry day. Not only is it the largest target with the most vital structures it’s also the least mobile and the most predictable in its motion. Anything more precise is going to rely heavily on an opportunity you might not get.
If you can get a certain head shot by all means go for it, but don’t assume that a head shot will instantly incapacitate, and don’t try for a head shot if your hit probability is low. Better a CoM shot that hits than a head shot that misses, especially if it’s a slow head shot. You take the shot you’ve got, not the one you want.
My plan? Keep shooting until the attacker stops being an attacker. I don’t have any desire to kill the bad guy. I want to stop him.
I would aim for the feet. The best way to stop a threat.
I wonder how many people have acutally been in situations where they had a serious adrenalin dump. I spent time as an ER nurse, and I can assure you that adrenalin changes everything. In that case, your aim/point accuracy will be compromised, and you’ll likely just keep shooting until the threat stops and not worry about it right then.. because effectiveness of shot placement is going to be a combination of how well you’ve trained to perform under stress… and a lot of just plain dumb luck.
I shoot at rabbits off my deck for moving target practice. Not doing too badly at it, actually. 🙂
Hand in hand with the adrenaline dump is tunnel vision.
Thats why realistic, quality, pressure-based training is absolutely critical.
Shooting IPSC targets standing in a shaded 180 degree range is casual shooting, not training. Sorry kids.
Most of the studies I’ve seen seem to indicate that 2-3 rounds from a handgun will stop an attacker if handgun rounds are going to stop them. So I would think that you put 3 into the chest (not center of mass) then switch to the head if they are still a threat.
All academic. I’ve been in extreme stress situations and people either do nothing, the wrong thing, or the right thing as a purely mechanical action with little conscious thinking. Diving accidents, in case anyone is wondering. May sound trite, but watch someone freak out in a 3 knot current at night at 100 feet. Not the same as getting shot at, but people freak out and turn to jello similarly.
In other words, you’re probably going to aim and fire until you’re out of bullets. All these videos of people threatrically doing ‘operator scans’ are nonsense. Watch most real shootings and they’re extremely chaotic. Just youtube cop videos of live stops and you’ll see them diving behind cars, running around, and wildly shooting. They don’t calmly ‘seek cover’, do an ‘operator scan’ and then shoot 2 in the chest against a well-presented target and pause dramatically to assess the threat.
This is at close ranges, most military shootings are at much longer ranges so there is generally much more time.
Even the shoothouse stuff is against static targets in ideal conditions. Heck you’d learn more from watching paintball or airsoft.
So have I, and I have seen it in students, too.
Training, a lot of repetition training, and some recently, to build “muscle memory” or whatever you want to call it, is what you will rely upon, if you can. And everyone reacts differently depending on their experience level, fitness, and the circumstances- I read something interesting- wish I could find it, that explained it in terms of heart rate as typical level-
Up to a certain level , adrenalin creates advantages- heightened awareness, faster reflexes-
the next level is tunnel vision, clumsiness in fingers, auditory suppression, but still do-able,
if you have trained the big movements, and are practiced in how it feels, or anticipating it…
but beyond a certain level of stress, as measured at 200+ heatbeats,
many go into a state where they just completely freeze.
Thats why you see some warrior/operator training where they run a weapons drill AFTER sprinting,
doing a series of fast pushups, to elevate the heart rate, to simulate same in action…
As opposed to the old “after actions” that I think I recall reading about in Ayoob’s books, of cops trained to holster revolvers and pick up brass, after one round of fire at the range, finding themselves doing the same in action…
Well said, both. Good stuff.
Only quibble. I THINK I read that that picking up brass thing was a myth, or at least was misrepresented. I don’t think there is any definitive evidence that that’s what happened. Of course, I could be conflating it with something else entirely.
Ah, yes…here it is:
Puuuleeze…contact shot ? The whole idea of a firearm is to stay the hell out of the reach of BGs and to project little lead pellets across some distance without radical difference in effect of impact from the muzzle itself.
So keep your distance AND keep shooting until BG or BGs go down for good.
Yep, a few classes, and suddenly they’re an operator. HAHAHAHA!
Some times you have no choice. In a sudden encounter you are far more likely to end up in a grapple situation than to be at distance, so you had best consider and train for that. And “contact shot” is part of that.
I’m well aware of the possibility of needing a contact shot in the situation you’re talking about, its the “tempted to move in for a contact shot to the head” that makes me laugh.
Yea, the only contact shots to the head I have seen were to the back of the head, usually as the subject is on their knees. Then again, wrestling on the floor, anywhere you can jam it works.
Personally, instead of the Mozambique Drill, I shoot to center mass and repeat. If the threat isn’t down, then I start moving my way up with multiple shots to the high chest, throat and head areas then back down toward the center chest. I find this to be more instinctual than trying to go for a single head shot. If the first two, three or four shots to the body have no result, then my level of excitement is going to be pretty high at that point and my ability to compose myself for a single head shot is probably going to be highly degraded.
Probably best not to anticipate any specific result from a particular drill, whether it be the Mozambique Drill or another drill. Watch the reaction of shooters when they shoot those suspended cardboard targets with the balloon inside. After shooting at those targets, they start to expect that the target will drop after a few shots. However, when you suspend the target without a balloon, they will often stop shooting when the target does not fall after the first few shots.
As the saying goes, “A man’s got to know his limitations” and I know mine. I am not a spec. ops. guy or “super-LEO.” I have been shooting for a half century and I used to compete on a Navy team, but I have let some bad habits creep in over the years. I’ve been taking defensive handgun classes lately and my shooting instructor says even under the stress of an advanced class scenario, not even a real situation, he’s seen decent paper shooters miss a torso completely from point blank range. I do above average in those classes, but I know that would be me too in a real situation.
I’m gonna keep trying get better, but based on my recent experience with my own shooting, my plan is first shoot three to the torso. Why? Because I am not good enough to reliably go to the head and with my shooting, when I have fliers, they are almost always on the first shot from a quick draw. Instantly after the three, I will break and run laterally toward cover, even if it is just a curb or a telephone pole, scan and reset. Why? Two reasons: 1) The guy will likely not drop from my first three, but he will then have to be shooting at me as a laterally moving target with a couple of JHPs lodged in his chest. That’s a tough shot. 2) I am always worried about accomplices.
In shooting classes, they have taught “Shoot until the primary threat is down, then stand there and scan for other threats. I don’t buy it. I don’t want to be shooting the first guy down while the next guy is shooting me in the back. I am hoping those first three shots will be done with enough suddenness and make enough noise to buy me a second to take flight. Then BG #2 has a moving target also.
Great answers one and all. After you and family are safe, take a suggestion I learned in orientation at a state prison. All questions about aiming have but one answer that you stick to as if you life is on the line. “I aimed to stop the threat” or “action” or “danger” and never stray from the answer you choose! Imagine a hostile prosecutor asking “so Mr Snodgrass, if you aimed for center body mass, how do you explain the 3 rounds to the head?” or some such lawyer speak. I was taught this in 1986, and have yet to find a better suggestion.
Center of the upper chest.
“I would aim for the feet. The best way to stop a threat.” Chance of missing is way too high. Chance of hitting or killing someone behind the BG is way too high. CoM is the easiest target to hit. But the 6 second rule means he may still be coming even if fatally injured. In a life or death situation you must stop him or be killed yourself. So the shots keep coming from you until he/she stops. Any way that works including the head, I would say. Though the head is a much smaller target and it sounds like a shot not placed correctly may still not stop the BG right away. I was taught to shoot into the area of the eyes and sinuses if the 2 CoM shots don’t stop the BG. But that is an even smaller target than the head. And if the perp gets that close to you he/she will likely be inflicting damage before they die. Again, this is IF they are fatally injured but have not stopped moving yet. As in the 6 second rule.
Well, the bad guy has his own set of problems if he is confronting me. I hope where we differ is in my training. The gun is called “the equalizer” for a reason. It is not called “the dominator”.
Shoot center of mass presented. Fire your weapon until the threat is gone.
Your favorite troll here. There is no one recipe for all scenarios and situations. For those of you without extensive force on force training the best thing you can do is to decide in advance that you are willing to do whatever it takes to protect you life and your loved ones. If that means beating an intruder unconscious with a weapon of opportunity or shooting an intruder in the ear hole point blank then so be it. The mind set is the most important thing, without that you have nothing.
Now, bring it on guys you can all attack me at once. I’m ready for you. No, actually I probably won’t even bother reading your responses because you have nothing to teach me. Just try doing the world a favor by not teaching them crap! Troll out.
Trolls everywhere are insulted by your lack of irrationality.
The logic in that video is:
2 to the head and 1 to the chest is 20% slower than 3 to the face. So clearly 3 to the face is better [places hand over lips to muffle this part…] even though you’re 80% more likely to miss the face unless you shoot five times a week like I do.
Center mass, keep dumping double taps into them until they realize lying on the ground and bleeding out is their only viable tactical option.
Center of visable mass.
Besides, I would think, without ever having seen or done anything like it, that it would have to do with the caliber you were shooting.
With a .444 or .700 Nitro Express, to give some extreme examples, it would be unlikely to have to hit more than once to put who or whatever down. But a .38, or 9mm, might have to use more than one round.
Contact shot? Why? Hypothetically speaking…if I were a bad guy, and you came in for a “contact shot,” you would be giving me the best scenario I could hope for in an instance where you had the drop on me. Now I have the opportunity to control your gun, and possibly to take it from you and shoot YOU with it, or stab you, or hit you, or any number of things I could not have done had you simply stayed outside of arm’s reach while liberally dosing me with lead pills. Obviously, circumstances dictate action, but I can’t think of many circumstances where a “contact shot” would be a good idea.
Yeah If I am fighting with a gun, my feet are complementary to my firearm. In other words, I will be creating distance or maintaining that distance that is a compromise between accuracy and safety. I am not giving up 50% safety to be 10% more accurate as in “move in for contact shot”. Why not just carry a knife if you are going to use a gun as such. Knife wounds are more lethal than handgun wounds and they never run out of ammo.
In a grapple a contact shot may be your only option, and in many DGUs it ends up in a grapple. People need to be prepared for it, cause it happens way more than TV and movies depict. And way more than most firearms instructors cite it happening.
I know what you are saying. The grapple is the one obvious situation for a contact shot. There is no other choice there, and one does need to be prepared for it, but what I was saying before is that PURPOSELY trying to get close enough for a contact shot is frigging stupid, and trying for a contact shot to the head is laughable. I don’t need a trainer to tell me that. It is common sense. The only situation I can think of in which I would try to get that close is if someone was about to hit me with a melee weapon, and backing out of range was not an option.
Yep, the only time anyone should try to close for a contact shot is if they do not know you are there or they have already jumped you. Trying to close with an armed assailant is just not a good idea when they can see you coming.
I am always going for the largest target. Center body mass every time. That said if it does not stop the advance I believe it’s better to move down than to move up. A hit in the pelvis will stop an advance and it’s a lot more likely to be made than a head shot.
Handguns are not as accurate to shoot as a rifle – aim for the largest target, which is center mass or actually the upper chest area between the nipples. Head shots really belong to special forces training..the average person will probably only hit the target 1 out of 3 times under stress.
Where to aim? Upper thoracic cavity. end of story. Contains the most vitals organs and arteries, not to mention the CNS tucked in nice and cozy behind it.
Center of mass is ideal for engaging targets at infantry/combat engagements, or, beyond 50 meters.
Pelvic girdle shots? against opponents wearing body armor. Hips and heads.
The amount of disinformation posted by some here is staggering.
Ill also add that the double tap, or mozambique drill, is largely obsolete. What if you miss? (and misses happen) what if two shots doesn’t stop the bad guy? what if he reorients his OODA loop and gains the advantage despite taking two 9mm or 5.56 rounds to the chest?
The goal is shoot to stop (whether the shot is psychological or physiological, it isn’t your concern. just stop him/her). or, non-specific response, as it is known in military circles. It can be a single round, it can be none, or it could be 15-20 (rare, but possible).
Never understood the disdain for double tap. The current wave of mag dumping by cops is what I have disdain for, and it makes people think cops are trigger happy. As for mag dumping in a home defense scenario? Depends on the situation. Got multiple attackers rushing you? Dump away and hope it stops them. I was taught that hope is not a viable tactical option.
You’re not getting it.
Its not a fvcking mag dump. Its shooting to stop. If that is what you got from my response, then you need to re-read what I wrote. In fact, do so. Re-read and come back.
What is so hard to understand about the concept of non-specific response?
It is mag dump. That is what is being taught. Cops shoot until empty. THAT is a mag dump. Don’t tell me what I am seeing because I am seeing it. Deny it all you like, that is what is happening.
Non specific response =/= mag dump.
There is simply no place for mag dumps, even in a infantry context of react ot near ambush. Nobody that is a credible instructor teaches “mag dumps” and wouldn’t last in the training world without being dismantled by mockery and loss of business due to safety/liability concerns.
If you think cops are dumping mags because non specific response is being taught, then how would teaching them double tap reduce the likelihood in magazine dumps, hitting innocents? Double taps are not going to preserve ammunition and prevent stray rounds if there are no fundamental marksmanship skills to begin with.
“no fundamental marksmanship skills to begin with.” Exactly. Who is teaching cops to empty their piece when they engage? Some one is, cause it keeps happening. Not every cop, just far too many. They are getting it from somewhere.
Training in double tap would damned well reduce that, because under stress people tend to empty a weapon, unless they are trained not to. Then they got to reload under fire if they did not stop the threat, and that is a whole different set of f**kups just waiting to happen. Firing till the threat is stopped is a good axiom, it does not mean bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang until the weapon stops.
“Exactly. Who is teaching cops to empty their piece when they engage? Some one is, cause it keeps happening. Not every cop, just far too many. They are getting it from somewhere.”
Its no fvcking mystery because police officers are taught to shoot until the threat is stopped, gives compliance, or incapacitation.
better yet, what is the magical number police officers are supposed to have, when they’re getting shot at or facing a threat that justifies using their gun, until they stop shooting? what is the magical number?
This is the same stupid argument that proponents of 7 or 10 round magazines only try to make. Contagious shooting and police officer misses are not uncommon and preceded the 1990s when training changed significantly.
“Training in double tap would damned well reduce that,”
Prove it. Where is the documentation? since 70 percent of police officer shots are misses, in what way will a double tap stop that if basic marksmanship under stress is the issue here?
“because under stress people tend to empty a weapon, unless they are trained not to.”
Double tapping doesn’t prevent that. Good training maintains ammunition discipline.
“Firing till the threat is stopped is a good axiom, it does not mean bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang until the weapon stops.”
It can if the threat still isn’t stopped after 15 bangs and it has happened.
How about you educate yourself first before you decide to respond back to me?
So in conclusion, non specific response does not equal mag dumps. Now go do burpees until you start paying attention a little better.
Teaching cops to mag dump is stupid, and yet you keep defending it.