I had been feeling bad about my poor Mosin. There it was, sitting under a bunk bed in the cabin. All but forgotten and slowly rusting away. It had probably been two years since it was last fired. I know I’m not alone here – there are maybe 4,000,000 Mosin Nagants in the U.S.. Hard to say how many of the apparently 37,000,000 or so that were produced actually made it to our shores, but it’s fair to say they’re pretty ubiquitous in gun safes, closets, attics and under beds all over the country. The world, really. Many of those not getting shot much. Rusting . . .
The Mosin Nagant is a solid rifle, though, and surplus 7.62x54R ammo is still readily available for about $0.25 a round. Even modern production ammo — perfectly suited for hunting, target shooting, or defensive purposes — is widely available and almost always at a lower cost than ballistically comparable rounds like .308.
What we have here is a long gun that isn’t particularly pleasant to shoot in its standard form. It’s huge, it’s heavy, it kicks pretty hard despite its weight, it has no provision for an optic and its fit and finish is what you’d expect from WWII Russia (in my instance). But it’s an excellent platform for a project build.
Now, although I expect comments rife with hate for ragging on a great battle rifle, the fact is that my Mosin served little purpose for me. It’s not particularly enjoyable to target shoot and I’m not lugging that ridiculous thing and its bayonet on a hunting trip. It was a great weapon in the First World War and, although it defended Mother Russia nobly in WWII as well, technology had already moved on. The last few times my Moist Nugget saw the light of day it simply served to introduce new shooters to a true rifle round — mostly so the experienced shooters could giggle at the “OMG recoil” faces.
The purpose of this build, then, was clear: fun. Turn a neglected 1945 Mosin into something that’s a blast to shoot. A rifle that looks fun, handles better, recoils less, makes some noise and flash and, above all else, demands to be shot. Something that draws attention at the range, that other people want to try. Something that works for new shooters. I think I’ve accomplished that. Let me show you how I went about it. Just like any recipe, it can be customized to suit your tastes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPgLSOMCRO4
The Build:
Right off the bat I knew the stock was a goner. Other necessities were a scope or optic of some sort, a shorter barrel, a muzzle brake to tame recoil and increase the fun factor, some coating to inhibit corrosion and make it look cool, and serious trigger work or an outright replacement.
I spent some time shopping around and then dropped off the Mosin and the following box-o’-parts with my gunsmith, Nick at HCTC Firearms.
- ProMag Archangel stock in desert tan. MSRP $205
- Timney trigger. MSRP $104
- Brass Stacker Anchor Point scope mount. MSRP $98
- See All Open Sight (separate review on it here). MSRP $99
- Precision Armament M11 muzzle brake. MSRP $110
The first step in the build process was cutting down the barrel and threading it for the brake. I went back and forth on having the brake permanently attached so the total barrel length including the brake would be 16″. Eventually I decided to just do 16″ of barrel and leave the brake removable so muzzle devices could be swapped around later. The short barrel makes the gun ‘handier,’ and the additional unburned gunpowder makes a bigger fireball. Yes, in my mind fireballs = more fun.
If you’re worried about velocity in a 16″ Mosin, it’s better than you might think. My gunsmith mentioned that the narrow barrel didn’t leave much room for a shoulder, so he actually threaded it so the brake would be perfectly clocked without having to use shims. As an added bonus to cutting it down to the minimum legal length, I was left with a sweet wall hanger: the end of the barrel, complete with front sight and bayonet assembly.
Moving more or less from the back of the rifle to the front, I’m going to do abbreviated reviews of each of these parts along with any notes on how they worked in the build process.
The Stock:
ProMag’s Archangel stock for the Mosin Nagant was released about a year ago, and was available only in black until recently. Now there are desert tan and O.D. green flavors, too. It’s rare that aftermarket polymer stocks are lighter than battle rifle wood stocks — and this one is a couple ounces heavier — but you get plenty of other benefits from the Archangel aside from its looks. Not that the slick, modern looks are a minor thing here. The main benefits are:
- Drop magazines. 5- and 10-round mags are available. They’re easy to load and function very well. They insert easily into the beveled mag well and they drop free. The only issue of note is a side effect of the clip round retention system — if you insert a loaded magazine and then release it, the top round is going to get stuck up in the top of the mag well area. Not really a safety issue since it’s too low to chamber, whether it was stuck in there with the bolt back or not, but it’s a small oddity.
- Easy dial click adjustment for length of pull via telescoping recoil pad. It’s a nice recoil pad, too. Grippy rubber with just a touch of give.
- Easy dial click adjustment for cheek rest height.
- “Goose neck” sniper-style grip with nice palm swells. It’s great. There’s a storage compartment in the grip, too.
- Inletted to accept the Timney trigger with no modification needed. Blanking piece included if you’re keeping the stock trigger.
- Three steel inserts for QD sling studs.
- Free floats most barrel contours.
- Flat-bottom forend is great for shooting from a rest and feels decent in the hand. Has provisions for mounting rails and the kit comes with a section of polymer picatinny rail — great for attaching a bipod.
I’m not exactly a ProMag fan, as I find some of their magazines to be hit-or-miss, but this stock rocks. It’s pretty freaking sweet in just about every way. Installation was drop-in. It feels and works great. If I have one complaint, it would be that the light Desert Tan color gets dirty pretty easily.
The Trigger:
Okay this Timney trigger is just ridiculous. I don’t think it’s really possible for a trigger to be better. It has zero slack/pre-travel/takeup – whatsoever – and zero creep at all. None. This means that pulling the trigger feels like putting your finger on a solidly-fixed steel bar. As you increase pressure, absolutely nothing happens. Then, when you get to the release weight, the break is precise and clean and perfect. That glass rod or candy cane analogy? Yes, it breaks like that. It’s even end-user adjustable for release weight from 1.5 lbs. to 4 lbs. The default is 3 lbs. and mine broke at precisely that every single time I measured it.
One cool feature of this trigger unit is that it has its own safety lever. This brings easy on/off thumb safety action — accessible with both hands in firing position — to the Mosin Nagant, which otherwise requires some cumbersome pulling and turning of the bolt cocking knob. In the factory stock, you have to remove wood to make clearance for the safety lever and for parts of the trigger unit’s body. As mentioned, the Archangel stock is already inletted so the Timney install is a significantly easier affair.
For all its faults, the Mosin is a pretty accurate rifle. Some examples are extremely accurate. The triggers are usually terrible affairs, though, and mine was horrendous. I cannot emphasize enough how much this $104 (at full MSRP) part did to make my rifle feel like a high-end modern firearm. A trigger like this will certainly decrease your group sizes.
The Scope Mount:
Brass Stacker has made a scout scope mount for the Mosin for a long time. This version is pretty small and light and it mounts only on the factory rear sight base. Brand new for the Mosin is their Anchor Point mount, which uses the recoil lug as an additional mounting point and shores things up quite a bit. It’s probably excessive for the extremely light See-All sight that I’m using, but would be a great choice for a heavier scout scope or a long eye relief pistol scope. I really like the Anchor Point’s looks over the lighter offering.
While it’s a drop-in job for the factory stock, the Anchor Point actually requires some modification to the Archangel since it doesn’t use a recoil lug bolt through it. My gunsmith milled a hole through the stock for the mount and it worked quite nicely. He recommends milling it at a low speed so as to avoid melting the polymer for a clean result.
Machining, fit, finish and overall quality were very nice. The kit comes with all of the hardware you’ll need and most of the tools for install and for adjustment. It easily adjusts for elevation and will also adjust for windage if needed. Some of my hardware appeared painted/coated instead of black oxide plated as it all should be, but I received a ‘prototype,’ pre-production version of this mount and I’m fairly sure that accounts for the discrepancy here. I would actually like the rail to be lower on the rifle, but in order to work with the rear sight in place (you can still use the factory irons with this, in fact) that just isn’t possible.
There are some scope mounts on the market that move the scope to a more standard location above the action. However, on the Mosin Nagant this requires modifying the bolt handle. The knob sticks straight out to the side with the bolt closed and sticks straight up with the bolt open — basically 90 degrees counterclockwise in either position vs. your normal bolt handle.
Yes, there are various ways to modify the bolt handle. I know this sounds crazy considering all of the other things I did to the rifle, but I really wanted to leave this untouched. To me, it’s one of the things that makes a Mosin a Mosin and it’s something unique and identifiable that I wanted to keep. Additionally, I like the idea of a scout scope and I really enjoy the look of a scout rifle. For me, there was more fun factor in this choice.
The Sight:
The See All Open Sight is a pretty unique product (EDIT: I did a separate review for it HERE). It is not an optic, per se, in that you can’t see through it and it doesn’t enhance or change your vision at all. It really is an open sight just like iron sights. However, it’s very fast to acquire and easy to use. It’s going to be great for new shooters and I can see it working well for more advanced shooters in some scenarios, too.
The sight uses a green fiber optic block at back with a graphic on its front face. The graphic, which is the sight’s reticle, is a black triangle with a horizontal line across the top point — sort of like a simple scale, if you will. On the front of the sight is a glass lens, which magnifies the graphic. Closer to your eye, e.g. the sight mounted on a shotgun receiver, it magnifies a bit less (the triangle appears smaller) and at longer distances, e.g. the sight mounted on a pistol at arm’s length, it magnifies more. Either way, you adjust windage and elevation so your point of impact is right at the tip of the triangle (to be clear, moving it closer or farther from your eye will not change POI, just the size of the graphic). Put your target on the triangle, pull the trigger, and hit. Very simple.
Like a good holo sight or other optic, if you move your head left, right, up, or down, the triangle still stays on target (zero parallax). What you see on the point is what it will hit. I was pleased with the size of the “window” or margin for error with regards to eye placement. Much more forgiving here than iron sights and more forgiving than many scopes I have used. This factor along with the large, bright fiber optic and high contrast black graphic make it quick to acquire.
At 1″ x 1″ x 2.2″ and weighing in at only 1.8 ounces, it’s a pretty darn small and light sight. No batteries. Think of it like bright iron sights — does it block your view of the target? Yes, just like iron sights do. Can you see it in the dark? If you can see your target, you can definitely see this sight. To me it has the charm of iron sights with the ease of use of a red dot, and that’s kind of neat. I’m looking forward to using it with new/inexperienced shooters. I do have a preference for how far it is from my eye and wasn’t as much of a fan of it on my pistol, but I like it in this scout scope location and I think it’ll stay on the Mosin. As mentioned, I’m going to do a separate review of the See All and that will include shooting it on a couple of rifles, a shotgun, and a pistol.
The Muzzle Brake:
I think the Precision Armament M11 “Severe-Duty” Muzzle Brake looks freakin’ sweet, and it definitely cuts down on felt recoil in a big way. It’s an extremely effective brake. To be fair, I did the stock and the brake at the same time and the stock is helping with felt recoil a bit also. I haven’t yet shot it without the brake to determine the difference it brings to the table by itself. However, I have swapped stocks on other rifles and shotguns and have used various recoil pads in the past, and I can tell you for sure that the muzzle brake is significantly reducing felt recoil.
Side effects of a really effective muzzle brake are blast and fire. Indeed, in the video at top you can see how my Mosin is now an effective snow shovel. It even shocked and awed some snow off of trees as far as 15 yards away (that I noticed). Of course, in the pursuit of fun, both blast/concussion and fireballs were desirable features for me.
As the person shooting the rifle, it really isn’t any louder than it was before. However, for anyone outside of that little pie slice of peace behind the gun I’m sure the concussion is…noticeable. Fun if you’re there with the group enjoying the Mosin. Maybe not as awesome if you’re in the same room at the indoor range, and now that my local indoor range is going to be allowing rifle calibers I can go test out how many shots it takes to create some sonically-induced private shooting sessions. Heh.
Quality and machining of the brake are great. I got mine in bead-blasted stainless since I knew it was going to be coated, but it’s also available in a black DLC. The M11 is available for a few calibers and there’s a smaller M11-SPR for 5.56 rifles. Precision Armament also makes brakes of other designs, bolt knobs, scope rails, and more. In fact, I got the very spiffy Accu-Washer muzzle device alignment system but ended up not using it due to the lack of a sufficient shoulder with the narrow barrel and my gunsmith’s ability to thread it so the brake was properly clocked without shimming.
The Coating:
My gunsmith — that’s Nick at HCTC Firearms still — prefers KG Gunkote products, and this Mosin is the fourth thing I’ve had him coat for me. It’s a great coating for a digital camo design like he put on this rifle or, really, for any design that requires multiple layers as KG goes on very thin. In most cases with competitive coatings you can feel or even see height differences between layers, but this design using Gunkote is smooth. It also won’t fill or shallow out roll marks or engraving (think ATF-mandated depth minimums for serial number markings) and rarely interferes with tolerances, even in cases like fairly tightly-fit slide/frame rails.
Despite going on thin, it’s still tough. After about 120 rounds through the Mosin it still looks great on the bolt, inside of the receiver, muzzle brake (after intensive cleaning to get back down to the still-pristine coating), and everywhere else. There isn’t a lot on the KG website, but my gunsmith stocks 40-something colors so there’s no shortage of options. He recently revived a very beat up Pre-B CZ75 for me also. If you don’t have a good local option for coatings, give HCTC a call.
Conclusions:
You know you have a neglected Mosin lying around somewhere. I know you do. Probably everybody does, right? I had so much fun on my first shooting outing with this “Ultimate Mosin Nagant” that I highly doubt it will ever be neglected again. It may just make it on all of my range outings from now on, actually. It’s really just that much fun to shoot!
For me, I’ve created something I like as much as the Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle (which is to say “a lot”) but at a lower cost. Lower to build than to buy, and also a much lower cost to shoot. Bolt action, scout scope location, drop mags, full-power rifle cartridge, options for a muzzle device. It’s a touch heavier than Ruger’s scout rifle but I think it’s generally comparable now. It’s accurate enough for hunting and more than accurate enough for fun.
Note 1: I chose not to replace the barrel, although that was a serious consideration. I felt like it would increase the expense beyond what made sense to me. Additionally, Mosin receivers are extremely strong but have apparently been known to crack in the process of trying to remove the factory barrel. That wasn’t worth it to me and although the bore of my barrel was rusted, it cleaned up okay and is still accurate enough.
Note 2: In the video at top, you’ll see that my bolt is still a bit sticky (although it’s better than it was). I have yet to do some light polishing work on it or steam clean the barrel lug recesses to make sure there’s no caked-in 70-year-old cosmoline in there. I expect I’ll be able to improve on bolt smoothness fairly significantly, but I doubt all of the charm of a late-WWII Russian infantry rifle will be lost. It’ll never be a pinky-finger-smooth, high-end modern action.
MOTHER OF GOD
I’m building a 700 right now with that same brake on it. Not sure I would do that to my beautiful 1936 Mosin but, it’s pretty cool I guess. To each his own.
Yeah, I wonder if he really lets his students express their political views without retribution.
“… the college classroom is where sensitive and dangerous topics are often the center of the conversation. Students and faculty must be free to tackle tough questions …” — Professor Cole
Once again let me use Mr. Cole’s argument to reflect the actual reality:
… the college classroom is where sensitive and dangerous spree killers are occasionally the center of the activity. Students and faculty must be free to effectively defend themselves …
Furthermore, Professor Cole totally fails to recognize that many students want effective tools to defend themselves from predators outside the classroom but there is no way to be armed outside and unarmed inside.
Oh well. If all else fails, Professor Cole can play the elitist card and tell us underlings how it is going to be.
It’s galling when people, especially PhDs who should know better, misinterpret basic English words. A “polite society” is not one where everyone agrees and plays nice. It is a Roman civic ideal where debate is encouraged and individuals consider the needs of the body politic. Cincinnatus for one certainly promoted the idea of the citizen soldier (militia) which would obviate the need for an army.
Even if we ignore the classical origins of the phrase, his definition of “polite” is off. Then again, in the postmodern era, Alan Brooks can be as polite, civil and agreeable as can be. But when it comes out he was carrying, it is not the prejudice against gun people that changes; rather, the reality of the encounter. Now, in retrospect, Alan was a duplicitous lying jerk who made SW feel uncomfortable. In other words, “polite” must retroactively exclude Mr. Brooks.
Sorry, but, after being raised in the military, then serving 20 years in it, having been in a combat zone with a weapon, we do NOT fire except to exercise the deadly force that stops a crime.
When I see a person chasing another, and see a threat to life, limb, or property, I will shoot, aiming for center of mass, until I am reloading, and shooting more, then, after those are done, stabbing with the bayonet, to make sure the threat is neutralized, just as I was taught in the military.
It is our duty to counter threats, and let a jury of our peers sort it out.
If you aren’t absolutely positive that you can pull the trigger, then you shouldn’t even
possess firearms!
But, I live in Florida, where we can “Stand Your Ground”.
You know what, No! That thing is more fugly than the engraved Sig from the other day.
NOTHING is as ugly as that engraved Sig.
I’ll tell you what would be uglier than that engraved Sig:
This Mosin converted to shoot .300 AAC Blackout.
*puke*
I have a neglected Remington made Mosin in my cabinet that has demonstrated “pie plate” accuracy at 100 yards. I can see several things about your set-up that might greatly improve my accuracy, mostly the stock and it’s lack of barrel bands. I’m gonna have to print this out and ponder it a while.
I wouldn’t mess with any rare version or particularly excellent example of a more common version either. …although it is technically possible to swap over to an aftermarket stock and then completely back to factory later. Nothing permanent is needed to swap the stock. But… you can find a new common variant of the Mosin for like $125 still…
If that is a “flaming bomb” Remington, don’t you fµ*king touch it. Those rifles are worth over 1K in mediocre condition. A bubba’d one can still fetch $500+. If you don’t want it, sell it to a collector and buy 8 lesser mosins.
Charles Durning was a WWII hero, as noted above. He killed several German soldiers, including one in hand-to-hand combat, with a rock (having himself been bayoneted).
He was awarded the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts.
I love me Versa Carry for my 380 if I plan on going shooting I use a reg Holster on the outside of my belt. but for CCW with my 380 the Vesa Carry is great……
@John,
The desktop version, when run on a mobile, spaces out comments
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And they become virtually impossible to read.
Anything that pisses off the “must stay original to preserve the sanctity” crowd of special snowflakes is fantastic in my book. Really there are 2 million examples of “X” version of this (insert surplus rifle here) and you have the audacity, the GAUL to savage it, give me a frelling break! These special snowflakes should be applauding you because it makes their untouched version that much more valuable. Since scarcity breeds value, you’ve just increase the value of theirs by .000000002¢!
Yes, and see my comment above from 11:24. There are probably only a few instances inwhich an 70-100 yr old milsurp rifle like this needs to be rejuvenated. Worn out barrel but receiver still in good condition? Sure, add a new barrel and have fun. Shellac job looks nasty? Sure, strip it down to the wood and start over again. Chop up an old Enfield just to make a Jawa Ion Blaster for your Star Wars costume. Oh Hell No! UnIssued Yugo Mauser M48A drilled, tapped and turned sporterized. Please No. Maybe there are a few more occasions where you could take an old warn out battle rifle and give it new life but once you look at rifle cost, gunsmithing cost (even if you do the work yourself), parts, and time spent on project I really think for the money you could have bought a brand new rifle. Sometimes old rifles just need to be left…old. YMMV
“….any more than their right to free speech shouldn’t cease when they set foot on campus. ”
Well, since free speech and thought are virtually nonexistent on many university campuses today, then RKBA is right on par.
The person going by the name “ST” could not be more correct in his description of college courses. His post says it all and that has been my exact experience as well; a one-way (liberal professor to the students he shows complete distain for) street of information to be later regurgitated on an exam. Failure to answer questions in the profs way of thinking will result in poor grades.
Now it’s a picture of a kitten demanding a cheeseburger. What’s going on here?
As I was watching the video, as soon as he pulled the trigger to demonstrate it, the video went black and said “AN ERROR HAS OCCURRED”.
I know it’s just a random Youtube glitch, but the timing made me LOL.
I may have to pick up that new scope mount. That’s really cool.
I think Terrence Cole here is like most gun grabbers I’ve met in real life.
His feeling that someone could get in an emotional debate and wish harm on the other person is something he himself has felt, and so he feels that everyone must feel this hatred toward a person they’re debating. These are people who often feel massive amounts of hatred toward other people to the point that they’re convinced that they’d do harm on others if they were armed, where I have very rarely met an armed person who wasn’t perfectly polite. How many times have you heard a gun grabber make some comment about shooting people as if it would fix their problems or even just an acceptable thing to do?
My personal college experience has been filled with some great debates with emotion but I’ve never had someone so much as stand up (short of the teacher who is already standing up) in a debate, much less show anything mildly threatening. Any intelligent teacher surely knows how to stop a debate before it gets too emotional, and I’d even say the vast majority of people are the same way. I’ve seen when pressing a debate could get more emotional than I’m willing to deal with (though never to a threatening degree) and simply ended it, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think other people are capable of the same thing.
A pretty good use of Freewill and Choice. Enjoy!
I gave up halfway through : http://apublicdefender.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/THE-STUPID-IT-BURNS-2.jpg
I had a Ruger GP-100 357 Magnum with 6″ Barrel for a few years and I wish I never sold it.
I used to P.O My Brother in Law because I could hit the same target He would shoot with His AR-15.
The GP-100 is a fantastic Firearm and I want another One to go with My Ruger SP-101.
No they should arrest the commy basterds who are ordering it.
I personally like the show a lot, my dad and my sons all watch it. I am just saying that if I had a FFL and knew they were in trouble I would have offered to help them! When they got stuck with all of those Socom”s if I would have had the $90,000 I would have bought every last one of them. when I win the lottery god willing i will be stopping by at RJF and dropping off my list of guns that i want, and to all those who are bitching and whining how well is your personally owned and family operated business that is televised doing…………. oh that right you don’t have one, so go back to watching LMN with your wives unless they give you permission to watch something a little bit more manly like Hallmark. this is just one Swamp Dawgs thoughts
I had a LC-9 and the only thing I didnt like was the trigger so I replaced the Trigger Bar with one from Galloway Precision and the Firearm was almost perfect after that.
So how accurate is it after the mods? I’d love to see before and after shot groups.
some guy on youtube, hacked one down to make it a “pistol”. 10-1/2″ barrel. He hit a gong at 300 yards with it. Not bad for a Mosin Nagant “pistol” …
But if CT had the resources, are you saying you would do it?
Was that a typo? Did you mean to ask, “But if CT had the resources, are you saying
youthey would do it?”If it wasn’t a typo, then you need to read again. He said he wouldn’t do it, as a flat statement; resources didn’t enter into his statement.
And the prompts coming up on ttag telling me my phone has a virus and needs to download… something (probably a virus)?
I just wanna know if that is CT’s entry in the “Politically correct cop photo” contest. Not sure, but I think an Asian officer is missing.
Left row, third from the front looks asian to me.
soft, female, overweight. must be highway patrol.
If the government takes away a possession that was previously legally owned are they not required to compensate you for your loss? I have a vague recollection of a TTAG article discussing this very issue (the government taking away our guns) that said something about the government having to pay for any firearms in a similar manner to how eminent domain works. Or am I missing something (like usual).
States and local governments try to get around the takings clause issue by “permitting” you to sell the offending item to someone outside the jurisdiction before the prohibition comes into effect.
Why, yes. Yes they should. After all, if they don’t like their job, they’d have to quit.
http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/11/19/1226762/917293-elian-gonzalez-raid.jpg
As an academic, this guy is full of it. Tone is strictly policed in the classroom and in professional discussion. Get too aggressive and you will get called out on it.
California DOJ compliant?
Yes!
Dude, excellent project and write-up.
“The purpose of this build, then, was clear: fun. ” <–as far as I'm concerned, that statement (and the fact that Mosins are common as dirt) makes you immune from criticism on this.
Only thing I'm skeptical on is that with all the parts costs you listed, plus KG guncoat, plus gunsmith fees, this is probably at or a little above the cost of a Gunsite Scout.
Either way, looks awesome.
Don’t forget Claudine Longet
I would hazard a guess this man lives in a gated community to be so naive as to how the world really works. I live next to a jerk that gets confrontational over anything he can. Doesn’t own a gun, but is plenty willing to fight anyone at a drop of a dime. I own several guns and have never been in a fight in my life and tend to avoid any situation where any confrontation could happen, but yeah…. as a gun own I’m the problem.
TTAG is now ctgunblog.com
Sgt. Patrick Hayes wrote: “To refuse to follow the orders of their bosses would mean the end of their careers. Their livelihood. Their ability to feed their families or provide for their old age.”
To follow those orders could cost participating officers all those things.
Ditto for their spouses and children who are at home while they are out killing dogs and jack-booting gun owners.
If you think for a minute that savvy gun owners are going to wait to take on a SWAT team head on, you’re a fool.
They’re instead going to cut open the soft underbelly.
The question is: How many CT police are going to kick in doors after a few of them come home to find their family members have gone through a wood chipper while they were “at work”?
Revolution is a dirty, nasty affair.
Hopefully the “LEOs” in CT will follow their oath.
I don’t know why people are giving Jeremy a ration over this.
Mosins aren’t rare right now. Given the number of them built and the relatively low proportion of them that have been exported to the US so far, there’s undoubtedly many more waiting in crates, slathered in cosmoline (or the Russian equivalent thereof), simply waiting for the Russians to become hungry enough for western currency to export them.
Sure, other mil-surp rifles have gone up in value. I find the price of Mausers to be largely incredible, given that there were over 100 million examples made. Sure, the Argentine 1909’s and the G33’s are prime candidates for sporterizing. M48’s are hardly rare, and aren’t particularly nice. VZ24’s are probably the best bang:buck for a sporter rifle conversion. I don’t cry when they get sporterized. A pre-war 98, with all the markings, matching serial numbers, pristine bore and so on? OK, that should be left alone.
A Mosin with a rusted bore? What’s he going to do with it? Hang it on a wall? Isn’t worth doing so. Replace the barrel? OK, all the collector value is basically gone right at that point, same as when I replace the barrel on a Mauser or ’03 Springfield that has been abused. Guns are collectable only when they’re taken care of, and a rusted bore or pitting below the wood line pretty much says “this isn’t ever going to be a collector’s gun.”‘
Oh, and nice job, Jeremy. Looks well executed.
What a … (comment self-moderated)…!
I can’t believe he’s the mayor. How in the world did he win an election?!!
It’s cool, especially if it can shoot reasonably accurately. If only money was nothing. What else could you have built/bought for the same time & money? I’m guessing there are cooler things out there for the same investment?
I’m so scared! Those mean gun-nuts, that evil NRA! Now I can’t arrest them when they bring those scary weapons of mass destruction into the REC centers. MOMMY! I want my mommy! WAAAAA!
And they say we’re nuts, indeed!
So, where’s all this “honest and open” discussion that the civilian disarmament industrial complex’s precious sock puppets are always droning on about? All I see is a shouting match between him and his host, and even though the host himself is in fact one such lackey, even he’s not buying it!
I thought I was going to watch him have a stroke.
Dang, that was funny!
Apparently, this guy needs a lawyer to tell him what the definition of “is” is.
I feel really bad for state and city law enforcement.local militias are already putting their gear together across the United States, I fear its state government doesn’t play their cards right this could very well be the beginning of the most bloodiest Civil War in history! as a disabled 82nd Airborne Ranger from Fort Bragg now living in Florida, I protect the worst!
Was that supposed to be “anit-gun FUROR to futher his career”? Because right night it says “anti-gun further to further his career”.
Where were your skis?
You had snow and an outstanding 7.62x54R Biathlon rifle.
Nice! And brings up a currently sometimes neglected aspect of firearms-
To have fun!
More like because he promotes policy regarding “gun violence” based on the kind of reasoning and empirical support that would cost him his medical license if used as the basis for recommending medical treatments.
Mr Mayor just got pwned
The host was against the bill, but seemed to do a fair job wanting to stick to actual facts. The mayor really was very stupid.
These small victories can and do lead to other victories later on. Think of it like a snowball rolling downhill. A lot of times it runs into a granite outcropping and stops before it gets too big. But sometimes, it just keeps going and going and leads to something bigger.
talk about that optic a bit.
I can see the value in intense training exercises such as this, particularly in ensuring that their men can stay calm and collected when they’re getting shot at. It’s stress inoculation to a very high degree. It’s a product of a training regimen based on expediency rather than liability. Real world SHTF situations won’t be neat and tidy rectangular range affairs, there is no 180 degree firing line in a chaotic and violent event. This is an attempt to deal with those realities through training.
That said, I think the shooting into the ground bit is just plain stupid.
Its strange to come to TTAG and listen to all these anti-open carry people….here… at TTAG.
Is it right or is it not a right? If you feel it is a right – what are you complaining about??? Here we have a guy open carrying and people here think he is a moron, scaring the public. It is obvious to me those people don’t want the right or don’t want to see people exercising the right (same as don’t want the right). Now, people back in the day open carried all the time. They didn’t carry concealed. If they did – people thought they were up to no good. I’m not afraid of guns, or the act of people carrying them. If more people carried openly it would have a desensitizing effect on people scared of guns and people carrying them (including those in this blog – you know who you are).
If you are uncomfortable seeing people openly carry, regardless of their intent – such as educating the public, etc, then you are clearly against open carry rights. In other words, you are a compromiser. That is what you are doing. It says keep and bear… it doesn’t say bear concealed or bear openly. Honestly, I think scaring a few people is worth it. Maybe someday they too will open carry. The bottom line is it’s about fear – and if you believe that a guy shouldn’t be arrested for open carrying, but then feel that he is out of line for doing so in a manner you think is “un-polite” then you should probably readjust your compass, reconcile the two, and figure out what side your on.
I’m guessing this has a lot to do with the fact that our alcohol laws are just as draconian as our firearms laws. Eighty years after it’s repeal we’re still suffering from the aftermath of prohibition.
Comment section is painful
+1 ! BPAR.kypd.
Don’t fall into the antis’ linguistic trap! It’s not not a “loophole” to obey the law.
If I drive down the street at the speed limit, I’m not “a nefarious scofflaw skating on the edge of the law, exploiting a loophole to evade prosecution.” I’m behaving exactly as the legislators prescribed.
Please don’t call lawful behavior a loophole.
At least he’s clean and articulate.
Not that the Koreans don’t make an awesome gun but the better PCP airguns do have regulators and more consistent, extremely accurate shooting out way past 100 yards. Drop down in caliber to a .22 or .25 and you can get 50-100-plus shots from a normal-sized reservoir. Try a nicer Air Arms, FX, Daystate, HW, RAW, or Steyr ;-p
So the deadlines have all passed for the judges to rehear Peruta en banc, but the Court has not ruled on Harris’ motion, correct? Does anyone remember what that deadline is?
Be sure to not have any weapons around the house! and get cookies and milk for the SWAT team!
I like it. Though the I’d think that the mass of that huge break is countering the handling benefits of shortening the barrel.
I’ve been thinking of doing bubbaing to a mosin the problem is every time I buy one and clean it up it ends up being too pretty to alter. I used teak oil on my last stock refurbishment. I’m up to two m91/30’s and two t53 Chinese, and still can’t bring myself to remove the front sight/bayo mount and scout mount a red dot. Then remove stock from barrel band forward, maybe the next one will be in worse shape and be sacrifice worthy…
The brake weighs quite a bit less than the bayonet and couple inches of barrel that were removed. And that’s on my M44, which only had like a 19″ barrel. If you’re chopping down a model with a 28″ barrel then you’re coming out way ahead. And, of course, you could choose any brake or no brake. Whatever floats your boat. I wanted this one so on it went. By no means do you have to do the same haha
Ive got a numbers matching mosin that someone sporterized (and did a horribad job at it) at home. Bought it for $200 2yrs ago, few hundred rounds threw it. LOVE IT. but i dropped it off at my gunsmiths today for an overhaul. Total cost with current scope, $200 buy price, $690 in overhaul. glassed bed, full floated, timney trigger, archangel stock, barrel cut to 20in, threaded/capped, repair bolt (moron who did bent bolt-kit jacked it up), new type of scope mount (since the same person screwed the ATI setup), and a coupla other minor things. So after it is all said and done, I will have a rifle that will post nice groups at 300m for roughly $900. I will post it up when it is finished with shot groupings.
Dumb question here; does the coating cover the interior of the barrel? Does it protect against corrosive surplus ammo?
It doesn’t go inside of the barrel. Still has to be cleaned after shooting corrosive ammo.
Love it love the fact you had fun building and still have fun shooting it. Whiners – I don’t care if it is the last gun used by King George if the man owns it he can use it as a tent stake, its his.
like the way that barrel turned out. do you know what colors were used? a bit color blind, I am not allowed to choose any colors at all!!!
Love it!! I was looking at one of these stocks yesterday. Love my mosin as it is, but I plan on doing ALL of this when funds allow… With the exception of the digital camo. Never been a fan. Now one of those home grown camo jobs using leaves off the trees in my backyard as masks…? You betcha! What brake size did you use? I read that a 15×1 is the correct one for a mosin, but I plan on slicing 7″ off my barrel.
There is no correct thread pitch. There’s no “original” thread pitch, as I don’t believe any were threaded. I chose the standard .308 thread pitch of 5/8-24 so the market for muzzle brakes is huge. The AK-47 standard thread pitch (14×1 LH) would probably work just fine. Bottom line: you can choose to thread it however you please as long as it leaves sufficient barrel thickness.
I have 2 mosin nagants and I can tell you that one of them is going to look similar to the build in this article. I am looking around right now for parts and going to do it rather similar to this one because I love the look of this one..
Jeremy, you took a rusted-up old rifle, that wasn’t getting used, into something useable. That’s always good news. A gun is meant to be used, not just sit there.
I personally would choose a black finish and a Boyd’s walnut riflestock w/ LimbSaver, but that’s just personal choice. It’d still probably be a GunKote finish like what you used. I’ve seen that stuff. It’s tough and looks good.
Mosin barrels can shoot pretty well even if pitted, as long as the rifling’s still reasonably strong all the way out to the crowning. Glad that yours was still in good, shootable condition. Were I in this situation, I might’ve gone for a 24″ aftermarket barrel in something between a “sporter” and “varmint” profile, with a muzzle brake. My personal reason for that is best velocity with a practical-length barrel for this capacity of round.
For those who don’t like what Jeremy did…folks, it’s *his* rifle, not yours. He put it back into practically shootable condition, and that’s a good thing.
– T
Inspiring!
How has the scope mount held up since it was mounted through plastic? I really like this idea but I’m wondering how much wiggle you get after a few hundred rounds with that set up.
Piggybacking on the question about how the Brass Stacker Anchor Point scope mount is holding up, over time. I’ve seen a lot (…and own a few) P.O.S. scope mount products for Mosin’s, but this one looks pretty solid. I too have the Archangel stock and am a little concerned about drilling the stock, stability due to the mod, alignment of the drilled anchor point pin, etc.
I’m not going quite as far with the modification as you, but I do agree that adding/modifying some things on my Mosin has made it a lot funner to shoot, more accurate, and just plain gets it out in the desert firing more often.
As for ruining the “historical value” of a Mosin, the more MN’s we “trash”, the more valuable the pristine “collectors” become! We just need to get about 90-million friends to do the same thing…
No thanks necessary, collectors!
FYI it mounts to the recoil lug, not to the stock. In the factory stock there’s a hole in this location and the Brass Stacker Anchor Point mount goes through it without even touching the stock at all (the brass stacker site actually says “no contact with stock”). It clamps to the recoil lug part of the receiver. With the Archangel stock, you just have to drill a large enough hole for this bolt to go through. Even if it was a huge hole there wouldn’t be any play in the scope mount, as the mount is not held in place by the stock at all.
Hope this makes sense.
wheres the big mac
where the fries
I am doing a similar build and was wondering if you had problems with the barrel being non concentric for the muzzle brake? If so how did you correct for it? It seems my barrel after being cut down is 1/8 thick wall on one side and 3/16 on the other. With the barrel only being 5/8 overall and needing 5/8 threads for the M11 brake, it doesn’t leave much room to correct for threads.
Mine was slightly off but not bad. This can be an issue, and the easiest solution is doing the threading as nicely as possible leaving as much wall as possible on the thin side while obviously still leaving appropriate threads on the ‘thick’ side and then, if needed, opening up the baffles in the muzzle brake to ensure there is adequate clearance for the bullet. That’s really the bottom line, actually — bore out the muzzle brake if needed. If the brake is going to be off-center from the bore due to the bore being off-center in the barrel, then bore out the brake to make room for the bullet. Don’t F the threading job or the barrel trying to center things, just F the brake a little bit 😉
Great weapon. The end design is right for a computer game 🙂
Wow, she’s quite the looker! I want to buy a Mosin now JUST to make this build. Truly gorgeous. I’m curious how accurate it shoots though.
Looks good man. I completely disagree with all the negativity. It’s your rifle, do it how you want it. There are still millions of these rifles on the market and if anything, the purists should be thanking us because now their originals went up in value by a couple pennies.
My 1944 Izzy is frowned upon by many as well until they find out just how little I’ve spent. $5 “2 stage trigger” (YouTube it), Rock Solid scope mount as a birthday present ($100 value), Archangel stock ($135 on clearance from MidwayUSA), sanded and polished the faces of the sear and cocking piece making it close to a 4lb rather predictible break ($0), scope off my old .257 ($0), muzzle brake ($32 off Amazon), barrel cutting (8″ off) re-crowning (11° target) and welded 45° bolt handle to clear the scope mount were all done by a machinist friend in exchange for some engine work I did for him. It’s punching just under 1″ at 100 yards. I absolutely LOVE shooting this baby and with how cheap a Spam Can still is, I can do it as often as I want.
Since I am a reloader, the next thing I want to do is develop some custom loads to optimize my newly refined accuracy.
Great Mosin build. Now its time for me to take the heat for you and get everyone riled up at me… lol. around 6 months ago I bought a mozin for the sole purpose of shooting a decent caliber rifle for cheaper than my deer rifle. (Its a 7mm rem mag) The idea was I can learn better marksmanship from the mosin and shoot better with the Remington 700 7mm rem mag. Well, then I found the sporterizing Mods and got a decent paying job. Now ive got a whole listof things to order for both the rem 700 and my mosin. Im going to turn the mosin into a semi-weight, tactical, mid-range bolt gun while I modify the 700 for long range applications.
The mosin is going to have the archangel stock (of course… lol) The m41 severe duty brake, (similar but twisted design), a timney trigger, harris bipod, rock solid scope mount and bent bolt with enlarged tactical knob, A Vortex Diamondback 3.5x10x50 scope, and a cut off barrel (not sure on the length, maybe 20″-22″). By the time im done ill have (without gunsmithing fee’s) $900 or so into it because my mosin cost $180. By the way, whats gonna make everyone mad is I started modifying the original stock before thinking too much about it and my mosin is 1943 round receiver, never issued, full matching bolt, butt plate, bayonet, stock, and barrel. right now it has an old ak pistol grip drilled and jb welded into the stock….
My 7mm rem mag is gonna have a vortex viper 3x9x40 scope, enlarged bolt handle, harris bipod, timney trigger, m11 severe duty brake (yes, your video made me like it… lol), on a choate ultimate sniper rifle stock. I paid 300 originally for that rifle. Its total will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $870 including the $300. So that would mean my mosin would cost me the same as my Remington 700 7mm Remington magnum, but would cost incredibly less to shoot (anywhere from $1.30-$2.50 a round for the 7mm rem mag to at most $0.50 a round for the mosin.)And it would be incredibly fun to shoot, cheaper, and more unique than a standard rem 700.
If you have read this far I thank and congratulate you. Im very long winded when it comes to my currently active projects. So let the hating begin….lol
–The weird, sharpshooting hillbilly with 2 teeth and lots ‘o guns,
And your friendly neighborhood policeman
Your still reading? wow….
Alex.
Thinking about getting that brass stacker mount for my M39. Anyone here done such a thing? i cant find an installation video for the mount anywhere? thanks
Hmmmm…………..now my brain is roiling. How much y’all say for a yellow commie T53?
This article as well as the many Youtube video’s have gotten me interested in doing this modification.
One question I have is, MUST the barrel be cut down or can this stock be used with the original barrel?
I picked up a 1939 Tula 91/30 Mosin Nagant at a farm auction and it’s in great shape as is.
I would rather not cut the original barrel unless it is necessary.
I would appreciate somebody providing an answer.
There is no “need” to shorten the barrel for any stocks that I am aware of. Most people shorten them to either reduce weight, or to create a new crown on a worn out rifle. (Certainly no one would shorten the barrel just to get a better fireball, right?)
I didn’t see anywhere in the article or comments (forgive me if I overlooked it) What colors from KG did your guy use on it? They perfectly compliment each other!
I have a 1944 made M38 in an M44 stock that I understand is rarity- the 38’s were being phased out and the 44’s coming in, and they used up the 38 stocks and used the new 44’s…I caught a lot of flack from the purists for ‘cleaning up’ the flaking shelac on it; I can’t imagine their horror if I ‘modernize’ it!
Hey sorry, I haven’t checked this post for a while. You’d have to call up Nick from HCTC Firearms (linked in the article) to ask him. You could also send your rifle to him and he can do the same job on it. His prices are very good and the work is extremely good as well.
Hey Jeremy, you mention ” send your rifle to him”. I’m unfamiliar with shipping a firearm to a gunsmith. Is there a need for any FFL transfer paperwork? I realize we aren’t transferring ownership but, as far as the shipping company, does USPS, UPS, FEDEX etc. require paperwork to ship a firearm to another, even a gunsmith?
I’ve got two firearms, an Enfield & a Mosin which I needed a gunsmith to look over.
Both needed head-space adjustments & both had a problem with chambering rounds. They both seem to drive upwards at an angle which wouldn’t allow the round to enter the chamber correctly.
I got a suggested gunsmith from my local gun Dealer to whom I should take it. He is about 75 miles one-way from my home. Secondly, I dropped off both rifles in September & he still hasn’t even looked at them yet. (Nov. 14)I understood he had customers ahead of me, most wanting their rifles for hunting season but, I’m getting a bit worried, seeing as he is a stranger with two of my rifles for over 3 months with NO contact.
I’ll say this: that is a stupidly overbuilt weapon…. I’ll also say that I LOVE me a stupidly overbuilt weapon. The sights, the stock, and especially the ridiculous muzzle break all look like something I’d reach for every time I went out to the range. That paint job really brings it together as well. If you didn’t know what the Mosin bolt and action looked like, you’d never know what it was, and I think that’s half the fun of buying one for a project. I’ve got a 1936 Tula that I couldn’t see myself tearing apart for a project, but for $135 shipped, I could see finding room in the case for one more.
You spent hundreds of dollars to turn a $69.95 rifle into a $150 rifle.
And in the meantime, the $69.95 rifles that didn’t get Tapco-fucked are now selling for north of $250.
Bravo.
It’s beautiful. I don’t understand the bitching.
The Mosin was my first rifle, and I take it with me into the desert every time I go shooting. I’ll never neglect Olga. She’s had a few different stocks and a variety of scopes added to her, and now I aim to try the Archangel. I’ll eventually find something that works best. The greatest thing about it all though, is I’ve never actually had to modify the reciever, barrel or bolt; and I retained every original piece, so if at any point I should want to restore her, I can. What’s the problem with that?
I was also lucky enough to grab one that was perfectly sighted, and needed no adjustments out of its import box. It’s probably the best rifle I own, and I own some pretty high end weapons.
Lighten up, people. It’s a weapon, and a very durable and robust one at that.
Just all the stuff in the past week to do my m44 the same way but all black & with a scope though should be fun
It’s a beautiful build. I just have one question. How did you ensure the correct placement of the hole in the new stock for the new scope mount? Did you have to mount the scope without the hole, and square it in a gun vice? I like the idea of not sending the bolt out to be bent or cutting and mounting a new bolt myself.
You might want to check out https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.htm?cat=91%2f30&s=mosin&results=All
Bolt Body (w/ Military Bent Handle; Not Original Sniper Bolt)
Scope, PU Sniper, Original WWII, Very Good to Excellent
As much as seeing a m44 get cut up kind’ve sucks (Don’t care for them ).. what really got me most is seeing the “Wall hanger” bit. I really want a piece like that to put on my modified 1939 tula barreled hilarious izzy. Every other part on the arsenal bastard is izhevsk EXCEPT the tula barrel. Since i’m an author and the Mosin nagant plays a prime roll in one of my stories i’m building the rifle my character used. Probably viewed in a similar way your is.. staining stock black, replacing the rear sight. I plan on even polishing up the metal pieces of the stock..
I have a 1943R izzy with a 1943 receiver on it. all of the parts match except the bolt. It has a pre 1928 izzy bolt on it.. Threw that on the tula bastard after adjusting the other ones firing pin. I’ve fired my 19423 to put down a rooster.. The recoil wasn’t as bad as I was expecting.. Handled it hell.. got a head shot. I heavily enjoy my mosin’s At least one found new life in your hands…would still love a m44 bayonet for my gun.
I bought a couple of 9130s (1942 and 1943) out of a crate and had a blast working with them. I didn’t do anything along the lines of an Archangel conversion, but I did refinish the stock of one into a lighter stain (Pecan) after conditioning the wood and gave it to my dad as a gift. The other was for me. I saw a 9130 done in black, and it looked awesome! So I stripped the wood and conditioned before I stained it all black. All the metal, on the other hand, was stripped of the black and then sanded down and polished to a mirror finish. So I have beautiful black and silver 9130 that’s as much as a showpiece as it is a distinctive sound on the range. I’m hoping to find one at the gun show this weekend so I can do an Archangel as one of my several Mosins I’d like to own. If I can find an original PU sniper rifle, it’ll get cleaned and refinished but otherwise unaltered.
After seeing this video, I went out and purchased 2 monism… a 1926 with an octagonal receiver that will stay original and a 1939 that I am going to modify just as the author has.
Stock is on the way from Midway. Got it on sale for $150 from Midway.com
Just purchased my second mosin today, hex head and arch angel stock along with the timney trigger as well. This mosin will be getting amped up similar to yours. If you could email me I do have a few questions in regards to it since this is a first for me. Looks good, seems fun, cheap and easy, can’t wait to get mine together! Thanks for sharing your build, email when you can please.
Jeremy S.
Great build. You’ve inspired me to do one similar. Yes, ignore the flak. You’ve done a great job.
Hi, I have an M38 set up with the Archangel stock. I was wondering if the Brass Stacker Anchor Point mount comes with instructions for milling the hole through the stock (where the recoil lug would normally be on the original wooden stock). Thanks!
I have a 28/30 Sako that was built in 1939, The recoil doesn’t bother me, and for me, watching the reactions of men watching a tall, somewhat muscular woman putting 100 rounds through this rifle at long range targets, ( 600 to 1,000 yards ) at the local military base Rod and Gun club, is as much fun as your love of fireballs out the barrel. The only improvement that I think that could be done to the accuracy of my Finn is to get the Timney and set it at a pound and a half, and go play at the Rod ant Gun club with “the boys”.
Personally I love my mosin as is but that is a fun build! I think maybe I’d have put a scope on there in lieu of the green monster but its pretty unique
Dear Abby
I have all my guns engraved with a picture of Elmer Fudd and the caption: “Be vewy qwiet. I’m hunting wabbits.”
Could that get me in trouble?
Signed,
Mystified in Massachusetts
We do same day shipment, and tracking information is
provided as soon as shipment is made.
All products come with manual and most of them are still in box but not all are brand new.
These are not stolen and there’s a
sales document issued for each.
We also ship to an FFL for those who prefer it that way.
Please feel free to visit our website https://www.legitarmsdealer.com/